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26

LCG General Discussion / Re: Lcgstrategy.com?

« on: April 18, 2014, 05:48:22 pm »

To become a top place for competitive Netrunner discussion the bare minimum is to be better than stimhack.com, and this won't be that easy. That site's best feature is a huge database of tournament winning decks. They also have some strategy articles and a forum frequented by many knowledgeable players. Their downside, at least in my opinion, is forum engine, I can't figure out how to follow it effectively, they're using some strange forum layout.

The main question is: do we have people to get started with content that will bring new people here? I think I could contribute (I feel way better writing about Netrunner than about Dominion), recently I thought about starting a BGG blog on Netrunner, so I may post articles here instead. I think to start we'd need at least 4-5 competitive Netrunner players here willing to contribute.

27

LCG General Discussion / Re: Lcgstrategy.com?

« on: April 14, 2014, 04:11:18 am »

Netrunner has stimhack.com and a lot of strategy discussion happens at Netrunner section on BoardGameGeek. There's also a Netrunner subreddit, but I don't read this so I don't know how good it is.

28

Dominion League / Re: Signups Season 1

« on: April 12, 2014, 01:29:05 pm »

Mic Qsenoch, GMT -5

Good. With 7 hours between us I take it there's zero chance I'm going to have to play you.

Can't check now as AI has power outage and Isotropish is down, but I think it's likely you both end up in top division and have to play each other no matter the time difference.

29

Dominion League / Re: Signups Season 1

« on: April 12, 2014, 10:11:08 am »

hsiale_, GMT+2

30

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Opinions on the VP counter?

« on: April 11, 2014, 05:28:56 pm »

then they just quit because they are losing?

They quit because they have lost. At least in their opinion.

Let's say we play a game with some curser and, due to playing poorly, bad luck, or some combination of both, I ended up with 9 Curses and you with just 1. Additionally my deck has completely no means of recovering and the board is quite weak, so once you're done with cursing me, you will take well over 20 turns to buy 8 Provinces. Do you really want me to sit and watch those 20+ turns when the game is already decided?

31

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Opinions on the VP counter?

« on: April 11, 2014, 04:15:19 pm »

everyone uses the tools even if the vast majority would prefer to play the more fun no tools version of the game instead

The point counter poll hints that the vast majority considers point counter version to be more fun.

32

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion

« on: April 09, 2014, 04:05:35 am »

I added it, then reconsidered and removed it.  You're trying to answer the question I'm deliberately trying not to ask.

What is the question you're trying to ask?

I guess, if you implement this feature, the settings to choose from would be "require", "prefer", "don't care", "prefer not" and "deny". (The difference between "require" and "prefer" being that require means Salvager takes care of not pairing you against "deny" people if you have "require" but if you have "prefer" you can be paired against them and their "deny" kills your "prefer".) Out of such choice, I would probably choose "don't care", maybe "prefer not", maybe "prefer", definitely neither of the extremes, so how often would I use it would depend mostly on what my opponents feel about this. I think the feature is definitely worth implementing (especially to use in tournament environment) but, contrary to VP counter, I personally am not strongly in favour of using or not using it, so I wouldn't force my opponent into either choice, being happy to play with whatever choice they want and being happy they have this choice.

33

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion

« on: April 08, 2014, 12:40:40 pm »

I thought it was intended for people who you didn't want to play against.

Could be. I may have made some faulty assumptions. That seems like a weird thing to allow for an automatch on Pro games, though.

Is it weird as well that you are given choice of playing or not against a given opponent when creating a Pro game manually instead of getting a random opponent and having to play against him or lose points?

34

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion

« on: April 08, 2014, 03:32:48 am »

- Another thing is that this algorithm will settle on 2/5 openings a lot less often, since you need two (presumably) independent shuffles to hit on 2/5.  A goko-provided identical-hands feature would hopefully just use the RNG once to generate a hand that both players start with, so the chance of 2/5 would be the usual ~8%.  But the chance to hit that 8% twice on independent shuffles is less than 1%.  So I guess players would have to decide if making 2/5 that much rarer is an acceptable tradeoff for identical hands.

This is not a problem. You simply take starting hand of the first player and rerun two turns until both players end up with that hand. Needs more redraws, but fixes the distribution. If animations are set to very fast while redrawing, even inj unlucky cases this should not take very long and, as this time is taken before the first turn, it can be put to good use anyway as both players analyze the kingdom.

35

Rules Questions / Re: Empty Black Market Deck. Can I still play Treasures?

« on: April 07, 2014, 03:27:05 pm »

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/149083/dominion-special-edition

It came out late 2013. BGG lists German version only, not sure if English version exists.

36

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Dominion Moments 2014

« on: April 03, 2014, 04:36:51 am »

I was playing a Wandering Mistrel/Ghost Ship mirror and after 6 turns decided it's time to get some cash as I could go through most of my deck but lacked buying power. So I nearly decided to get a Silver, but then noticed a card in the corner of the board.

Code: [Select]

hsiale: turn 7
(...)
hsiale plays 4 Copper
hsiale buys Treasure Map
hsiale gains Treasure Map
(...)
hsiale: turn 8
(...)
hsiale plays 3 Copper, 1 Silver
hsiale buys Treasure Map
hsiale gains Treasure Map
(...)
hsiale_: turn 9
(...)
hsiale plays Ghost Ship
hsiale draws Treasure Map, Treasure Map
hsiale plays Treasure Map
hsiale trashes Treasure Map, Treasure Map
hsiale gains Gold
hsiale gains Gold
hsiale gains Gold
hsiale gains Gold
hsiale plays 3 Copper, 1 Silver
hsiale buys Ghost Ship
hsiale gains Ghost Ship
hsiale draws Gold, Gold, Gold, Gold, EstateAnother nice synergy was that when my opponent played Ghost Ship on me turn after, I could move one Gold to the top of my deck and not have it wasted with 12 coins and no +buy.

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140403/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1396513455621.txt

37

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion

« on: April 03, 2014, 03:28:47 am »

To make my position clear, the reason I oppose automatching games based on VP tracker is that the more such qualifiers you have, the harder it is to find matches.

I prefer to find less matches but not find matches I'd rather not play.

Some qualifiers are important: "ranking ±X" and "Pro/Casual" are obviously key. But as you start including VP trackers preferences, hate list preferences, maximum quit %, etc., it takes longer and longer to find games, especially if your preferences for any of these are in the minority.

What is important and what is not is a matter of personal preference, everyone should be able to finetune his filter. If it turns out someone's filter returns too few games, that player should reconsider the settings.

I'm not trying to force people to play the game "my way". Again, if two people agree to play a variant where a computer keeps track of the score for them, fine. I think it's a little strange that it's allowed in a "Pro" mode, but whatever. It's the fact that people who want to play by the rules are being discriminated against when it comes to matchmaking that gets me.

There is no difference between refusing automatch and refusing the game after automatch tries to pair us (other than we both waste more time in second case). If I don't want to play against you, I simply will not do it, no matter how tedious it is. Goko doesn't force me to play anyone.

Sorry for not chiming in earlier.  I am going to implement VP counter options for automatch, probably sometime in the next week.  If you blacklist (no-automatch) #vpoff people in the interim, just remember to remove them afterwards.

Could you add one more VP counter setting: "Allow others to use, but even when they do, don't display it to me"? I think (maybe I'm wrong) that currently denying your opponent the VP counter is the only way to not see it while using Salvager, maybe some people will be happy to let their opponents see the points counter if this doesn't mean they also have to see it.

To check the interest in the above proposal: @LastFootnote and other anti-counter players: would you be happy with such setting (you see no points counter, your opponent sees it) allowing everyone play the way they like?

38

Game Reports / $22 Island

« on: April 02, 2014, 08:38:11 am »

Code: [Select]

Vineyard, Courtyard, Doctor, Wishing Well, Island, City, Mint, Rabble, Rebuild, Royal Seal
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140402/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1396441867604.txt
I ended up with more Cities than my opponents. But he was ahead on points. I had more Rabbles as well, so I was way more likely to draw my whole deck, but I needed +buy desperately and the only way to do this was emptying another pile. Luckily Islands were low and my opponent, probably not expecting my plan, helped a bit. Then turn 21 I had to spend $22 on the last Island, so that next two turns I got 3 Provinces, 3 Colonies and an Estate to finish the game 14 points ahead.

39

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom III: Round 6 Discussion Thread

« on: April 01, 2014, 04:11:13 pm »

hsiale 3-0 bearskinrug

Code: [Select]

Vagrant, Loan, Workshop, Advisor, Rats, Young Witch, Cache, Ghost Ship, Highway, Knights, MintWe both open Young Witch/Workshop (it's the bane). Then, on the second shuffle, we both get a 5 Copper hand. I decide Copper won't be bad and buy Cache, he decided Copper will be bad and buys Mint. He can curse much faster, but I have stronger economy and manage to get big enough lead that I can buy remaining Knights and Vagrants to end the game before he catches up.

Code: [Select]

Death Cart, Tournament, Wandering Minstrel, Golem, Cache, City, Count, Counting House, Laboratory, Hunting GroundsI support my Tournament with Gold and Labs, he goes for Tournament/Wandering Minstrel/Hunting Grounds. I manage to win the race to Followers, then he takes Princess, then I take Trusty Steed, then he takes Bag of Gold, finally I grab Diadem. I start greening earlier while he is building, probably preparing double Province turns with Princess. But Followers slow him down and before he's ready I manage to get more than half of the points available.

Code: [Select]

Transmute, Oracle, Bishop, JackOfAllTrades, Quarry, Thief, Mandarin, Treasury, Wharf, King's CourtKing's Court, Wharf, Treasury and Quarry. So we both open Silver/Quarry and race to power actions. I manage to connect KC with Wharf first, win KC split 8-2 thanks to this and the game is decided.

Thanks for the match bearskinrug.

40

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom III: Round 6 Results ONLY

« on: April 01, 2014, 03:57:51 pm »

hsiale defeats bearskinrug

41

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion

« on: April 01, 2014, 02:02:12 pm »

Playing the game by the rules means not using a point counter. If two people both want to play a casual game with a point counter, fine! But to be unable to be random matched in a Pro game with someone because you prefer to play the game by the rules? That's nuts! Really, Pro games shouldn't allow the VP counter at all.

It's your opinion. Now, if you want to force it on us, you can buy Goko Dominion from Making Fun and ban the points counter. Or you can make an extension which is so much better than Salvager that people switch to it even if it has no points counter. If you have neither cash nor skills to do one of those things, then your opinion will never become a fact. That's life. I have enough interesting opponents who want to play Dominion-with-points-counter, I don't have to play Dominion-without-points-counter and will do my best to avoid it because it's not a game I enjoy. If you enjoy it, I hope you find enough opponents for it, if not, nothing I can do with this, you should probably go and find a more popular game or work on making the one you like more popular (tip: this is best done by showing people the game you like is awesome, not by saying other games should be forbidden).

There is no such thing as "being randomly matched to play a Pro game". All the automatch does is suggesting the players that they may be interested in playing each other (because each of them goes through a filter the other player set). They both still have to agree to play the game, there's no rating penalization if you disagree. If you go through my filter but for some reason I don't want to play against you, Pro rating system is OK with this. And the most common reason for this is disagreement on vp counter, that's why I'm asking for the filter to be improved (this already more or less exists on standard tables, try joining a game with #vpon in table name and typing #vpoff).

42

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion

« on: April 01, 2014, 12:30:20 pm »

Is it possible for the automatch to stop pairing together people who have "always use vp counter" and "always refuse vp counter" set (and, in case at least one of the players has either of those settings, force it in automatch table name)? It is very annoying when people turn off my counter, because of this usually when I have a choice between an automatch and non-automatch game I choose to decline automatch.

Dude, suck it up. The game was designed to be played without a point counter. I don't want #vpoff folks to become second-class citizens just because you feel you need the added crutch of a VP counter in every game you play.

Dude, could you go your way and enjoy Dominion the way you like it instead of looking for a way to deny me enjoying it the way I like? I prefer playing with point counter, I prefer playing no game over playing a game without the counter and I have every right to do so. If you prefer playing without it, I'm completely fine with this, I simply don't want to play against you because it will be wasting time of one of us who'd have to play a game he doesn't like. You can play people who dislike the counter, people who don't care, people who don't know it exists. I guess there are enough of them to keep you busy, and if there aren't, well, tough luck, nothing I can do as without the feature I'm asking for I will automatch blacklist you after first time you turn my counter off, so all you can gain is a single game against a pissed off opponent, not sure if you enjoy such games, though looking at what you wrote I feel it's quite likely you do.

43

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion

« on: April 01, 2014, 07:54:44 am »

Salvager displays Isotropish level at the player list in the lobby. Is it possible to show it also in other places where Goko Pro is shown (automatch dialogue, player info box displayed when you click on avatar)?

Is it possible for the automatch to stop pairing together people who have "always use vp counter" and "always refuse vp counter" set (and, in case at least one of the players has either of those settings, force it in automatch table name)? It is very annoying when people turn off my counter, because of this usually when I have a choice between an automatch and non-automatch game I choose to decline automatch.

44

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion

« on: March 31, 2014, 05:22:15 pm »

It's actually very difficult for me to do analysis on the accuracy of isotropish, because in order to measure it accurately, I need to constantly scrape your board, since what is meaningful is the prediction AT THE TIME THE GAME IS PLAYED, and since you continuously update, you don't keep records to cross-reference.

I feel this is the most important point of this post. How hard would it be to make the log prettifier add some info to Pro games log (preferably Goko Pro and Isotropish level of both players before the game was started)? I guess it would be harder to do this with Goko Pro rating, though maybe Making Fun could be talked into doing this at their side.

45

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Treasure Map, Masterpiece

« on: March 27, 2014, 04:05:55 am »

Silver is much worse in a Colony game (a hand of 5 Silvers does not buy you a Colony). If you play BM into Colonies, you want to switch to Gold and Platinum quickly.

46

Goko Dominion Online / Re: It's not you, it's them

« on: March 25, 2014, 03:31:09 pm »

My guess is if you already downloaded the Java client (IE, have been playing all day) you are fine. If you just loaded up you are probably screwed. My brother is signed in and able to host games and play (he has been on all morning), but I can't join any of his games or create my own (I just signed in).

Quite possible. I have Goko open all the time for at least few hours. I can start games, people join them but are unable to do first turn (I can do my first turn if I go first) so they finally time out. I guess no more Dominion for me today.

47

Goko Dominion Online / Re: It's not you, it's them

« on: March 25, 2014, 03:08:22 pm »

I'm playing a game right now. I have Dark Ages, but the kingdom doesn't have anything from that set.

Or at least I managed to start a game and play turn 1, but my opponent seems unresponsive. I got "I have joined the game" message from him though.

48

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion

« on: March 25, 2014, 12:21:46 pm »

And before you ask, yes, Isotropish is right and Goko Pro is wrong.  Absolutely no doubt.

Thanks for the link, this explained a lot. Still, after reading this, I have no idea why Goko (slightly, not as much as most extreme cases, but systematically) overestimates me. Recently I play almost daily, never play guests, never play 3+ players, never play people ranked very low and still I am usually ranked 230+/-50 on Goko Pro (depending on in I have a good or bad day), while I don't think I have ever been Isotropish top 300.

49

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion

« on: March 25, 2014, 10:58:48 am »

I couldn't find whether this was addressed before, but is there a way to filter people based on Isotropish level? (Something like L30+ instead of 5000+)

Not yet, but probably soon.

For me this gets dangerously close to forcing people not using external tools to start doing this. Someone who doesn't use Salvager and doesn't visit gokosalvager.com cannot even check his Isotropish level. Goko Pro level can be easily checked from within the client.

50

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection

« on: March 24, 2014, 06:01:31 pm »

Is there really a perception that people are attempting to game the kingdom when playing casual??? In the last year and a half I have NEVER come across a kingdom where I thought someone set it up for the express purpose of exploiting some secret combo or evil pin.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1124861/highest-dominion-score-youve-ever-seen