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101

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 21, 2013, 11:03:40 pm »

$3 Masterpiece
$4 Masterpiece
$5 Masterpiece
$6 Masterpiece

$2 Stonemason
$3 Stonemason
$4 Stonemason
$5 Stonemason
$6 Stonemason

$3 Doctor
$4 Doctor
$5 Doctor
$6 Doctor

$4 Herald
$5 Herald
$6 Herald

Pretend we got a large expansion after all.

102

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 20, 2013, 05:13:39 pm »

Why don't we just rate all of the cards from 0-10 (or 0-100 if you felt like it).
Then you can arrange them into a ranking however you like. Also it is way easier for the participants to do.

Or from 1-205.   

103

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 20, 2013, 06:15:02 am »

Um guys, Qvist already chose what is happening. What are we arguing about?

This would be the discussion part of education and discussion.

We all know that Dominion is anything but consistent but if we keep making exceptions for different situations.  A $2 Chapel is a horrible purchase if it is the fifth one in my deck.

To actually make a useful list it should go from the cheapest card to the most expensive.  In the end, the list would generally go from $2 to $7 with some blurring of costs.  It would provide better education...what is typically the best use of $4?  Overspend for Chapel?  And discussion...pull Chapel from the $2 dregs and compare it to other power cards.

Education?  What, are we all supposed to go to Dominion School now?  For fuck's sake, man, it's a game.

Real pleasant.

104

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Guilds Secret History

« on: June 19, 2013, 08:56:39 pm »

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/994238/the-secret-history-of-the-guilds-cards

105

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 08:06:04 pm »

Um guys, Qvist already chose what is happening. What are we arguing about?

This would be the discussion part of education and discussion.

We all know that Dominion is anything but consistent but if we keep making exceptions for different situations.  A $2 Chapel is a horrible purchase if it is the fifth one in my deck.

To actually make a useful list it should go from the cheapest card to the most expensive.  In the end, the list would generally go from $2 to $7 with some blurring of costs.  It would provide better education...what is typically the best use of $4?  Overspend for Chapel?  And discussion...pull Chapel from the $2 dregs and compare it to other power cards.

106

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 07:33:27 pm »

I guess I don't understand the purpose of the lists. Are we comparing cards, cost, or value?

I made a long post about this already. We are comparing the general impact of cards on the board and for easier measure we group them by cost before.

Is this to promote discussion or education?

Both.

The impact of cards on the board?  Not sure exactly what is meant by this or it's usefulness to a typical Dominion player.  It seems the most useful list would be one that would compare each card by cost and their value/strength.  If I have four coins to spend what is typically my best purchase? 

107

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 07:12:33 pm »

I'm not surprised you understand jonts26.  From what I can tell he is with the majority. Not necessarily right but the majority.

I guess I don't understand the purpose of the lists. Are we comparing cards, cost, or value?  Is this to promote discussion or education?

108

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 06:11:25 pm »

In the end.  It doesn't really matter.  A list will come out that I'll glance at for a minute or so and I'll be done with it.

109

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 05:32:16 pm »

I think he meant the cards that have on-buy effects that don't cost money. 

Anyway, Stonemason shouldn't be on the $5 card list because it isn't a $5 card.

Yes, thank you.  That is what I meant.


  I believe Stonemason is a $2, $3, $4, $5, $6 card.  It says so in the bottom left side of the card itself.  2+.

110

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 05:20:35 pm »

I don't have the luxury to ignore anything.  If the $5 Stonemason isn't included I can't add it.  Why wouldn't a $5 power be compared to other $5 powers?  That seems to be the whole point of the lists.

The problem is there's no such card in dominion as a $5 Stonemason. There's just stonemason.

A Stonemason that costs me $5 and give me a power that can't be bought at $2, $3 or $4.

But it didn't cost you $5, it cost you $2.  The extra power cost you $3. 

Another analogy is Black Market, which has an "on-play" overpay effect of letting you buy 1 of three cards (chosen randomly from a separate deck).  Sure, it costs $3 to buy, but its use technically costs money, so its like a $3+x card where x is paid in arrears.  If Black Markets wording was like Noble Brigands ("when you buy this or play this"), would you want to rank it at a different price point?

I also wonder if this entire discussion isn't motivated mostly by a bias with the word "overpay".  If Stonemason were worded "When you buy this, you may take -X coin, to a minimum of 0 coin.  If you do, gain two cards, each costing no more than X," would we consider Stonemason anything but a $2 card?

Overpaying isn't a mechanic that presides over the entire game.  I can't overpay a Witch and gain extra power.  The Stonemason's overpay is on the card.

It's a mechanic that's specific to the card.  But so are many other mechanics that happen on particular cards.  Lots of cards have special mechanics (Island, Noble Brigands, Mandarin, Black Market, etc.).  The on-buy effect is something you take into account when you choose whether or not to buy the card.  Other cards have on-buy effects (but it doesn't cost more coin).

and that is why I am not arguing for them to be listed mor e than once.

111

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 05:12:01 pm »

I don't have the luxury to ignore anything.  If the $5 Stonemason isn't included I can't add it.  Why wouldn't a $5 power be compared to other $5 powers?  That seems to be the whole point of the lists.

The problem is there's no such card in dominion as a $5 Stonemason. There's just stonemason.

A Stonemason that costs me $5 and give me a power that can't be bought at $2, $3 or $4.

But it didn't cost you $5, it cost you $2.  The extra power cost you $3. 

Another analogy is Black Market, which has an "on-play" overpay effect of letting you buy 1 of three cards (chosen randomly from a separate deck).  Sure, it costs $3 to buy, but its use technically costs money, so its like a $3+x card where x is paid in arrears.  If Black Markets wording was like Noble Brigands ("when you buy this or play this"), would you want to rank it at a different price point?

I also wonder if this entire discussion isn't motivated mostly by a bias with the word "overpay".  If Stonemason were worded "When you buy this, you may take -X coin, to a minimum of 0 coin.  If you do, gain two cards, each costing no more than X," would we consider Stonemason anything but a $2 card?

Overpaying isn't a mechanic that presides over the entire game.  I can't overpay a Witch and gain extra power.  The Stonemason's overpay is on the card.

112

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 04:50:45 pm »

I don't have the luxury to ignore anything.  If the $5 Stonemason isn't included I can't add it.  Why wouldn't a $5 power be compared to other $5 powers?  That seems to be the whole point of the lists.

The problem is there's no such card in dominion as a $5 Stonemason. There's just stonemason.

A Stonemason that costs me $5 and give me a power that can't be bought at $2, $3 or $4.

113

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 04:42:41 pm »

Then ignore it.

You're kinda taking your ball and going home.

I don't understand how this analogy works. 'taking your ball and going home' would be don't rank the overpay cards at all. But he's advocating for something (putting them at their own costs - let's make it analogous to soccer). Others are advocating for other things (putting them on their own list - let's call this footie; putting them with the most expensive cards - we'll call this rugby). You are saying that everyone is happy if we play some game that has rules from soccer, football, and rugby. But I actually think that it's closer to the opposite - nobody is happy!

And actually, I already described why this is a bad idea - in ranking bits of the card, you never rank the card itself as a whole. This is HUGE! A big part of the strength of a lot of these cards is their flexibility, which you're never taking into account. And there's other specific issues too.

Why are you choosing your piece of mind over fellow Dominion Strategy members and Dominion lovers by choosing not to ignore 16-20 extra cards.  Unfortunately, my situation doesn't allow me to "sacrifice" for you. 

Seems selfish.

Edit: post in response to robz888 comment.

What? This makes no sense - not ignoring things is generally good, not bad; it is, however, incredibly difficult to *force* someone to not ignore something; there aren't 16-20 cards in discussion; your argument seems to more or less boil down to 'you are being selfish for asking for what you want, instead of yielding to me so that I can get what I want' which isn't prima facie an argument that either side can use. I also don't see how, in this way, your positions are any different at all.

I don't have the luxury to ignore anything.  If the $5 Stonemason isn't included I can't add it.  Why wouldn't a $5 power be compared to other $5 powers?  That seems to be the whole point of the lists.

114

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 04:24:39 pm »

I like fish.

I don't.  It tastes nasty and salty.

Then nobody should be allowed fish. 

115

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 04:15:44 pm »

Why are you choosing your piece of mind over fellow Dominion Strategy members and Dominion lovers by choosing not to ignore 16-20 extra cards.  Unfortunately, my situation doesn't allow me to "sacrifice" for you. 

Seems selfish.

Edit: post in response to robz888 comment.

116

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 04:03:48 pm »

Then ignore it.

You're kinda taking your ball and going home.

117

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 19, 2013, 03:59:15 pm »

If you include a $2 SM, a $3 SM, a $4 SM etc...

Everyone gets what they want.  If you only want to recognize a $2 SM then you get ignore the others.  Very simple really.

118

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: So when do the rest of us get ours?

« on: June 18, 2013, 01:36:07 pm »

Over at BGG someone posted that Boards & Bits was shipping on Wednesday (tomorrow).

EDIT:  Boards & Bits now has it listed as In Stock.

SECOND EDIT: My order is prepped for shipping.

119

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 17, 2013, 09:10:24 pm »

If you have a Village and a Worker's Village in the same kingdom the only thing you are adding with a WV purchase is +1 Buy for an additional coin.    You are "overpaying" your Village in order to add a Buy.  They are very different benefits at very different costs.  Stonemason is no different.

120

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Overpay cards and the best cards lists

« on: June 17, 2013, 04:30:08 pm »

A $2+ Stonemason that you pay two extra coins for is now a $4 card.  Different cost, different ability.  Just the way it is.

121

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Guilds is here!

« on: June 15, 2013, 12:56:00 am »

I like that the rules use feminine pronouns to refer to a generic player! 

Perhaps because most of my hobbies and skills are 80%+ male, though (I'm a mathematician, and I play lots of games and the like).

Then you'll be happy to know that your Dominion rule books are 80%+ male. 

122

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Masterpiece

« on: June 15, 2013, 12:47:48 am »

Well, Treasure Map originally came from the 7th expansion according to the secret history. That was Guilds, right?

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=117.0

Judging by what he said in the Secret History of the Dark Ages Cards, the 7th expansion seems to have been a now-defunct "top-of-the-deck" themed expansion.

I think the 7th expansion turned into Guilds+Alchemy? Or maybe Guilds+Cornucopia?

If Guilds' path is anything like Dark Ages, I imagine that little remains of the originally planned 7th set. That said, there's actually a decent amount of "top of the deck" related stuff here. You have Taxman and Herald; "Name a card" is related; maybe also Doctor but that might be a stretch. Alchemist and arguably Apothecary and Golem are also relevant.

He was going to do more Durations, but decided something new would be more interesting.

i want both please.

123

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Is there someone who never has freezes?

« on: June 14, 2013, 01:50:56 pm »

I only play on the iPad but have never had freeze issues.

124

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Picking cards against the bots

« on: June 14, 2013, 09:19:52 am »

Thanks so much.

125

Goko Dominion Online / Picking cards against the bots

« on: June 14, 2013, 08:25:23 am »

How can you choose the cards you want to play with in a bot game?