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Messages - platykurtic

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26
Where did everybody go? If the cards have been posted somewhere else on the internet, be so kind as to humor us with a link...

A bit more info is trickling out in this thread:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4099.0

Quote
Beggar
Action/Reaction
Cost: 2

Gain 3 Coppers, putting them into your hand
.                                                 
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this. If you do gain 2 Silvers putting one on top of your deck.
Also it appears the last non-supply pile is Knights, which consists of 10 (!?) different cards in a pile with names like Dame Anna and Sir Bailey

There's a bunch of card names and costs too

27
I've updated mine regardless
Quote
Vagrant - Scout lite, but almost certainly more useful, being nonterminal. at 2 you can buy it on bad draws and extra buys, the opportunity cost is suitably low. Then it's a cantrip in your deck with a chance of being a lab dependin on how muck crud is in your deck. Of course when it is a lab one of the cards is most likely useless. It's better with action ruins, shelters and victories. Overall it's a solid 2, I'd almost always buy it over nothing on a 5-2

Fortress - A village that untrashes itself. If there's no trashers it's an expensive village, but sometimes that's enough. The primary use seems to be trash for benefit cards, since you get the benefit and the village back. Of course you can't play it as a village first, so with a terminal trasher unless you have other +actions first the village is a dead card. Engines could make the best use of this presumably. Unlimited bishop tokens at last! seems a bit specialized, but fun to build strategies around

Ironmonger - Seems a bit weak at first glance. It's randomly either a village, a peddler, or a lab (or just a cantrip if you hit a curse, etc.)  I guess the possibilities synergize with the game phases though. As an opener it's a peddler and sometimes a lab. If you have shelters it seems dramatically worse as an opener. Then as you get more action cards it gives you more actions to play them with. Finally as you green it turns into more of a lab. Since you can discard the second card you draw it's got extra cycling and if you hit a victory card you can get the next card in your deck. And in BM games it's going to stay a peddler. I guess I've kind of talked myself around to it, it will be neat at least.

Procession - Throne room then upgrade. I like it. I'm really curious if it will enable a real turbo-remodel strategy. Certainly it can't go to VPs, but doing two things at once is always surprisingly powerful. Used on any +action card it's a village, so it fits into some crazy upgrading engine I'm imagining. It would really take a good chain to work though. Otherwise it lets you upgrade your actions while feeling like you got some value out of doing so. I'm really looking forward to this one

Scavenger - Chancellor fixed? The only difference is topdecking a card of your choice. If that's the end of your turn, you get the best card in your deck in your hand next turn (unless it's in play or something). That's nice, and certainly more incentive to do so. Rather than knowing that your new cards are more likely to show up in the future, you get one immediately. As part of an engine, you can guarantee what card you get next, including ones you've just gained, which has got to be worth something in the right engine.

Band of Misfits - Wow, I can't even start with this one. Clearly if you're buying this you could have bought any of the cards you might mimmick (barring highway tricks). Actually with highway, after one highway you can start using BoMs as highways. Certainly the flexibility has to be a boon to getting your engine going. I see there's a whole thread about the special cases already, so I won't even speculate. At five though, there's lots of competition, so you really need a good reason to be mocking up lower cost card.

Bandit Camp - Expensive village that gets you one-shot golds. I guess it's effectively like buying a village and gaining a single gold, since you'll be using up your spoils about as fast as you gain them. That's not too shabby in a kingdom where you want both actions and money.

Count - The most complicated card so far? Choose a negative and a positive. Some of the negatives can be positive in some circumstances, like discarding tunnels or topdecking terminal actions. The benefits seem a bit lackluster though. Trash your hand is only likely to be useful in the very early game and may never hit well. A terminal gold for 5 isn't usually worth it. Duchies you don't want until the endgame, unless you're on an alt-vp strat. But flexibility is good and I see this enabling some really weird strategies.

Altar - A deck thinning university minus the actions. You're not getting this in the early game with the 6 cost, and if you have good trashers you'll be out of crud before you get to this card at all. So by the time you get this the cards you really want to trash will be mixed up with better cards and this will be harder to hit. You're not getting gold, so this seems more like an engine acceleraor

28
Rats/Venture actually sounds really neat. Play rats on your coppers, balancing it so that you have some decent money and a bunch of ventures. Then your ventures are always hitting silver/gold or other ventures and you don't need too many in your hand to reach province level. Definitely a balance though - with 8 unplayable rats, estates, and an increasing number of provinces, what's the right ratio of ventures/treasure?

29
Squire: As a regular card it seems like a lackluster engine component. If you're desperate for +actions to build your engine it'll do like any village, and you can accumulate them easily at least. If you need +buy for your engine, this will also do in a pinch. The flexibility is nice though, and nothing else lets you get tons of buys quite as easily. It might also be a good opener paired with a cheap card you're rushing, which right now means fools gold or poor house.
The trashing component is much more interesting. When used as an opener, what are the chances it lets you grab that crucial first attack faster than if you just bought money? 4-cost attacks you can always buy, so this is all about 5-6 and familiar. I have no doubt someone will compute the probabilities of this colliding with your trasher on turn 3, 4 versus being able to buy them but my gut feeling is that it's a bit sketchy. Racing against potion for familiar for example, you need a collision, while they just need their potion to hit with enough money.

Hermit: A mini-jack combined with a mini-one-shot-tactician. Graverobber just got better. The ability makes it probably worth opening with on curser boards, since it's got a better chance of plucking out the curses than other trashers, and you can fill your deck with silvers or cheap engine component in the meantime. You can also choose to buy nothing and get a tacticiany turn sometime later. This is probably worse vs handsize reducers since it increases the chance of being forced to buy something like copper or let this get trashed when you don't want it to (and it makes the madman turn worse). If you let your hermit go mad (great theming by the way) on turn 3/4 you'll have the madman turn 3rd shuffle.

Madman: I think the tactician analogy sums this one up best. You probably sacrificed a turn to get this one. In most cases after playing this you'll end up with an 8 card hand and two actions, which can certainly let you grab some higher cost cards earlier. If your starting hand has been reduced to 3 it just brings you up to 4 though with an extra action, which isn't great. If you've got an engine that draws half your deck and it hits without the madman, you can now draw your whole deck.

30
Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #2
« on: August 07, 2012, 11:18:46 am »
My predictions.

Feodum: Super obvious synergy with Trader and Jack. The fact that you can trash them for one to gain another "point" worth of silver is a tough mechanic to wrap my head around. It seems like you need to predict the number of silvers you'll end up with and calculate a balance based on that. You can also buy one to deny your opponents and then trash it for silvers (although they might be able to graverob it). There are 40 silvers, so in 2 player splitting those would make this worth 6 points, meaning with a good enough silver enabler this strategy seems pretty dominant over provinces. What constitutes a good silver enabler beyond the obvious is a good question that we'll have to figure out. With 6 silvers this becomes a consolation prize for duchy, which might not be an unreasonable way to skew a province deck. All in all a good alternate victory card that makes you think whether or not to go for it

Cultist: Love the theme. I look forwards to all kinds of looters running around destroying stuff. If this were a curser it would be strictly dominant over witch, one of the better cards. The chaining lets you justify getting two of them early, though you'd run out of ruins before this could get too crazy. But with the lab effect with other cultists and the trash for benefit aspect they aren't useless after ruins are gone either. The chaining doesn't seem like a strategy to itself since it will soon get clogged with green in anything but a golden deck of sorts, so the trashing sounds more appealing. Presumably this is all balanced out by the fact that Ruins aren't as bad as curses, although they're nearly as deck clogging. I call this a really good card

Ruined Market: Less harmful and useless curses. They don't have the negative point, and they have a small chance of being useful. Certainly in a game where +buy is desperately needed someone could quite reasonably buy this off the top of the ruins deck. DVX implied that there's also Ruined Smithy (+1 card), Ruined Village (+1 action), and Ruined Something (+1$), along with a weirder one. RMarket sounds like the most useful, which RVillage being particularly useless. RSmithy cycles a bit if you've got the action and the +1$ is a copper if you've got the action. Certainly all this will make fairgrounds and similar better, though presumably they're only put out when something like cultist is on the board. With fairgrounds I'd probably try to buy these up at the last minute with extra buys. With both players going for that at the same time it could get dicey. Games with cursers and looters could turn into a huge slog, but otherwise this sounds like a fun mechanic

31
What fun. I've already read a bunch of analysis though so these first thoughts aren't really my own

Graverobber: Definitely a bit weak on its own, trying to use it as a strategy unto itself is like turbo remodel. If the only source of trashed cards is other graverobbers it will take too long for decent cards to start getting into the trash. On most boards it will probably be just a last ditch province grab sort of card.

Trash for benefit cards and self-trashers have the most obvious synergy, but action on gain cards are good too. I suspect Mining village or border village will be an insta-combo with graverobber on most boards since they provide both the actions to play multiple graverobbers and an extra benefit to reviving them. Mining village can be trashed for money over and over, and border village gets you an extra 5$ card when you gain it from the trash. This sounds like a new in-and-out of the trash engine style. You'll be worried about what you leave in the trash at the end of your hand since your opponent might decide to graverob everything and hoard it


Poor House: Super fun. definitely an all or nothing card; without trashing or discarding it's just a high-probability 4-5 hand card with that limited range of use. A bunch of these and silvers might make for a horse-traders type duke duchy engine. To really get the full potential out of each PH, you need to have trashed your coppers or be discarding them reliably. Black market has a neat synergy here since you can play your money early and not have it in your hand when you play your poorhouses. +actions are essential here to play multiple poor houses and facilitating cards

Sage: A really good 4-3 opener. I think the chancellor effect of cycling your deck early is a bit undervalued here, either your sage hits your 4-card and lets you play it early, or it collides and puts your deck in your discard pile, letting you get your next purchase immediately. And while it's useless in the late game, it doesn't hurt your deck much either.

Feodum: Super obvious synergy with Trader and Jack. The fact that you can trash them for one to gain another "point" worth of silver is a tough mechanic to wrap my head around. It seems like you need to predict the number of silvers you'll end up with and calculate a balance based on that. You can also buy one to deny your opponents and then trash it for silvers (although they might be able to graverob it). There are 40 silvers, so in 2 player splitting those would make this worth 6 points, meaning with a good enough silver enabler this strategy seems pretty dominant over provinces. What constitutes a good silver enabler beyond the obvious is a good question that we'll have to figure out. With 6 silvers this becomes a consolation prize for duchy, which might not be an unreasonable way to skew a province deck. All in all a good alternate victory card that makes you think whether or not to go for it

Cultist: Love the theme. I look forwards to all kinds of looters running around destroying stuff. If this were a curser it would be strictly dominant over witch, one of the better cards. The chaining lets you justify getting two of them early, though you'd run out of ruins before this could get too crazy. But with the lab effect with other cultists and the trash for benefit aspect they aren't useless after ruins are gone either. The chaining doesn't seem like a strategy to itself since it will soon get clogged with green in anything but a golden deck of sorts, so the trashing sounds more appealing. Presumably this is all balanced out by the fact that Ruins aren't as bad as curses, although they're nearly as deck clogging. I call this a really good card

Ruined Market: Less harmful and useless curses. They don't have the negative point, and they have a small chance of being useful. Certainly in a game where +buy is desperately needed someone could quite reasonably buy this off the top of the ruins deck. DVX implied that there's also Ruined Smithy (+1 card), Ruined Village (+1 action), and Ruined Something (+1$), along with a weirder one. RMarket sounds like the most useful, which RVillage being particularly useless. RSmithy cycles a bit if you've got the action and the +1$ is a copper if you've got the action. Certainly all this will make fairgrounds and similar better, though presumably they're only put out when something like cultist is on the board. With fairgrounds I'd probably try to buy these up at the last minute with extra buys. With both players going for that at the same time it could get dicey. Games with cursers and looters could turn into a huge slog, but otherwise this sounds like a fun mechanic

Squire: As a regular card it seems like a lackluster engine component. If you're desperate for +actions to build your engine it'll do like any village, and you can accumulate them easily at least. If you need +buy for your engine, this will also do in a pinch. The flexibility is nice though, and nothing else lets you get tons of buys quite as easily. It might also be a good opener paired with a cheap card you're rushing, which right now means fools gold or poor house.
The trashing component is much more interesting. When used as an opener, what are the chances it lets you grab that crucial first attack faster than if you just bought money? 4-cost attacks you can always buy, so this is all about 5-6 and familiar. I have no doubt someone will compute the probabilities of this colliding with your trasher on turn 3, 4 versus being able to buy them but my gut feeling is that it's a bit sketchy. Racing against potion for familiar for example, you need a collision, while they just need their potion to hit with enough money.

Hermit: A mini-jack combined with a mini-one-shot-tactician. Graverobber just got better. The ability makes it probably worth opening with on curser boards, since it's got a better chance of plucking out the curses than other trashers, and you can fill your deck with silvers or cheap engine component in the meantime. You can also choose to buy nothing and get a tacticiany turn sometime later. This is probably worse vs handsize reducers since it increases the chance of being forced to buy something like copper or let this get trashed when you don't want it to (and it makes the madman turn worse). If you let your hermit go mad (great theming by the way) on turn 3/4 you'll have the madman turn 3rd shuffle.

Madman: I think the tactician analogy sums this one up best. You probably sacrificed a turn to get this one. In most cases after playing this you'll end up with an 8 card hand and two actions, which can certainly let you grab some higher cost cards earlier. If your starting hand has been reduced to 3 it just brings you up to 4 though with an extra action, which isn't great. If you've got an engine that draws half your deck and it hits without the madman, you can now draw your whole deck.

Rats: Replicating mandatory trashing. I'm struggling to figure out how to play these. If you just buy one on opening this seems slow to ramp up without some sort of helper like scheme, but once it's going you get a few excellent turns where the rats have stuff to trash, and they're nonterminal so they're not slowing you down. Cursers extend this period, handsize reducers shorten it. Activating on-trash abilities is another reason to keep going. The tipping point is when your rats start showing up with stuff you don't want to trash, at that point they're a dead card. I look forwards to newbies ending up with all rat hands. Assuming they double roughly every few turns, I suspect this will be after the round of turns where you gain 4 rats. At this point it looks like you need to be trashing your rats with some other trasher, or you're in trouble. You probably need to be getting the other trasher early and thin out the rats as you go. Trash for benefit cards will have some great fodder here. If there's no other trasher on the board I'm not sure how this can be a viable strategy, but maybe I'm missing something. Still, it sounds like a whole new game, which is fun.

Pillage: really nasty one shot attack, graverobber just got better. Probably gets a bit better as the game goes on as people have better cards, although even on turn 3 you'll catch some opener cards and cutpurse everyone else. Plus two golds that early, even one shots, is insane. Of course someone else might Pillage your Pillage

Spoils: One shot gold. DVX pretty well summed up the usecases - it's good at the end of the game, and good if you're doing a no-money strategy (minion, poor house, pirate ship) where it can bootstrap you and get out of the way.

Not too much to strategize about the shelters. They're great thematically, but they're effects on the game are harder to gauge. Beyond what DXV listed, trash for benefit takes a hit. I suppose that make rats more appealing with good trash for benefit cards.

Necropolis: makes opening two terminals much more palatable and helps activate conspirator.

Overgrown Estate: incentivizes getting a trasher, any trasher, early, though you'll likely want to do that anyway with a DA set

Hovel: incentivizes you to get a victory card earlier. Buying another useless VP might not be worth it if you weren't going to anyway, but the action/vps are more appealing.

Vagrant - Scout lite, but almost certainly more useful, being nonterminal. at 2 you can buy it on bad draws and extra buys, the opportunity cost is suitably low. Then it's a cantrip in your deck with a chance of being a lab dependin on how muck crud is in your deck. Of course when it is a lab one of the cards is most likely useless. It's better with action ruins, shelters and victories. Overall it's a solid 2, I'd almost always buy it over nothing on a 5-2

Fortress - A village that untrashes itself. If there's no trashers it's an expensive village, but sometimes that's enough. The primary use seems to be trash for benefit cards, since you get the benefit and the village back. Of course you can't play it as a village first, so with a terminal trasher unless you have other +actions first the village is a dead card. Engines could make the best use of this presumably. Unlimited bishop tokens at last! seems a bit specialized, but fun to build strategies around

Ironmonger - Seems a bit weak at first glance. It's randomly either a village, a peddler, or a lab (or just a cantrip if you hit a curse, etc.)  I guess the possibilities synergize with the game phases though. As an opener it's a peddler and sometimes a lab. If you have shelters it seems dramatically worse as an opener. Then as you get more action cards it gives you more actions to play them with. Finally as you green it turns into more of a lab. Since you can discard the second card you draw it's got extra cycling and if you hit a victory card you can get the next card in your deck. And in BM games it's going to stay a peddler. I guess I've kind of talked myself around to it, it will be neat at least.

Procession - Throne room then upgrade. I like it. I'm really curious if it will enable a real turbo-remodel strategy. Certainly it can't go to VPs, but doing two things at once is always surprisingly powerful. Used on any +action card it's a village, so it fits into some crazy upgrading engine I'm imagining. It would really take a good chain to work though. Otherwise it lets you upgrade your actions while feeling like you got some value out of doing so. I'm really looking forward to this one

Scavenger - Chancellor fixed? The only difference is topdecking a card of your choice. If that's the end of your turn, you get the best card in your deck in your hand next turn (unless it's in play or something). That's nice, and certainly more incentive to do so. Rather than knowing that your new cards are more likely to show up in the future, you get one immediately. As part of an engine, you can guarantee what card you get next, including ones you've just gained, which has got to be worth something in the right engine.

Band of Misfits - Wow, I can't even start with this one. Clearly if you're buying this you could have bought any of the cards you might mimmick (barring highway tricks). Actually with highway, after one highway you can start using BoMs as highways. Certainly the flexibility has to be a boon to getting your engine going. I see there's a whole thread about the special cases already, so I won't even speculate. At five though, there's lots of competition, so you really need a good reason to be mocking up lower cost card.

Bandit Camp - Expensive village that gets you one-shot golds. I guess it's effectively like buying a village and gaining a single gold, since you'll be using up your spoils about as fast as you gain them. That's not too shabby in a kingdom where you want both actions and money.

Count - The most complicated card so far? Choose a negative and a positive. Some of the negatives can be positive in some circumstances, like discarding tunnels or topdecking terminal actions. The benefits seem a bit lackluster though. Trash your hand is only likely to be useful in the very early game and may never hit well. A terminal gold for 5 isn't usually worth it. Duchies you don't want until the endgame, unless you're on an alt-vp strat. But flexibility is good and I see this enabling some really weird strategies.

Altar - A deck thinning university minus the actions. You're not getting this in the early game with the 6 cost, and if you have good trashers you'll be out of crud before you get to this card at all. So by the time you get this the cards you really want to trash will be mixed up with better cards and this will be harder to hit. You're not getting gold, so this seems more like an engine acceleraor


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