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26

Help! / I apparently don't understand Governors at all.

« on: March 12, 2013, 02:23:39 am »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201303/11/game-20130311-232003-7a809536.html

* Don't you want to try to win the split?

* Where did all his Labs come from?

* Why does it take me forever to get going?

* How come the 3 golds he gains are enough for him, but not enough for me?

* Isn't it supposed to be bad on his part to use the Governors for draw most of the time? Why didn't I seem to benefit from this?

27

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card

« on: March 11, 2013, 02:03:43 pm »

Inception Leo:

"I changed the previous post slightly, and got more upvotes."

"I'll just change your post slightly as well."

28

Game Reports / Re: One of the longest end games I've ever seen.

« on: March 11, 2013, 01:51:22 pm »

Technically yes, but you'd want to pick it up before greening because it will be too late if you do it afterwards.

Agreed.

Masquerade does not usually get rid of all Estates

I don't think this has been my experience, though.

29

Game Reports / Chess

« on: March 11, 2013, 01:49:54 pm »

In which I open Bishop-Pawn and win:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201303/11/game-20130311-104610-ff63654e.html

I actually hadn't really planned out the strategy; but I got a 5-2, really didn't want to open Outpost, and Bishop seemed like the best 4 and Pawn like the best 2. As it turned out, Pawn became an enabler that let me get Peddler, while I also grabbed Caravan over Silver, and the next thing I know I have a pretty sweet engine running. It helps that opponent also went with Bishop and missed the +Buy of Pawn.

I guess Caravan/Pawn might be better though? The usual "prisoner's dilemma" of Bishop seems to apply, but Peddler tilts things towards wanting the Bishop at least eventually, so you can rack up points from those.

30

Dominion Isotropic / Re: No thanks, Goko

« on: March 11, 2013, 12:21:00 pm »

On a serious note, though, is there somewhere I can get the Innovation rule sheet that doesn't involve signing up for BGG?

31

Dominion Isotropic / Re: No thanks, Goko

« on: March 09, 2013, 06:01:06 pm »

Rule 1:  Everyone in the world is playing The Game Dominion.

Damn it, I just gained a Curse.

32

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greatest Dominion moments 2013

« on: March 09, 2013, 05:58:09 pm »

My opponent just turned his (imo lucky) win into an even luckier tie:

Code: [Select]

— John211's turn 20 —
   John211 plays a Farming Village.
   ... getting +2 actions.
   ... revealing a Duchy and a Copper.
   ... putting the Copper into the hand.
   ... discarding a Duchy.
   John211 plays an Embargo.
   ... getting +$2.
   ... trashing the Embargo.
   ... embargoing the Provinces. <--
   John211 plays a Trade Route.
   ... trashing a Copper.
   ... getting +1 buy and +$3.
   John211 plays a Copper.
   John211 plays a Bank.
   ... which is worth +$2.
   John211 buys a Province. <--
   ... gaining a Curse.
   (John211 draws: a Duchy, 2 Monuments, a Copper, and a Province.)

All Provinces are gone.
zahlman and John211 rejoice in their shared victory!


33

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Gold rush!

« on: March 09, 2013, 01:52:59 pm »

Do you intend that if someone plays four of them, they get two gold?  And if five, three?

Yes. It seems consistent with the change in "theme" that the card gets by being a cantrip.

34

Game Reports / Re: Haggler/BM vs Haggler/Vineyards

« on: March 08, 2013, 05:15:50 pm »

The problem of Haggler/Vineyards is that anytime you buy a Vineyard with Haggler in play, you must gain a Copper, so there is a bit of antisynergy going on.

It works well if there's another Alchemy card besides Transmute, though

35

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card Idea: Barge

« on: March 08, 2013, 05:10:39 pm »

Wording revision?

"At the start of your cleanup phase this turn, set aside all Coppers you have in play. At the start of your next turn, play the Coppers again."

Playing Treasure at the start of your turn is a little weird. Why not return them to your hand?

But any version that sets aside the Coppers seems to have the problem that now the card can't stack with itself at all, whether TRd/KCd or physically played multiple times.

36

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Theoretical Pricing

« on: March 08, 2013, 05:08:46 pm »

Would you consider making it a terminal at $4 (maybe even $3, since it's not like you'd even *want* to open with two of them)? Opening Wharfhouse/Silver gives you probably better chances at a $5 or $6 on the first reshuffle than two Silvers, but it's not exactly game-breaking since you still only have one Silver added to your economy. As noted, the effect is self-limiting, which makes it not as appealing/important to make it nonterminal in the first place.

37

Variants and Fan Cards / Gold rush!

« on: March 08, 2013, 04:56:09 pm »

Some off-the-cuff ideas (haven't attempted to price the first three) related to Gold.

Prospector - Action

Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is

- a Gold, put it into your hand.
- a Prospector, discard it and gain a Gold in hand.

Otherwise, either discard the revealed card or put it back.

(They "pan for gold", so yeah.)


Gold Rush - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

If you have three or more Gold Rushes in play, gain a Gold.

(An alternate take on the 'treasure map' idea; they're easier to line up and can be lined up repeatedly, but you need to line up more of them for a smaller reward.)


Con Artist - Action
+1 Action

Set aside a card from your hand face down. The opponent to your left chooses whether or not to reveal it.
If you reveal it: put it back into your hand. If it was a Gold, gain a Province.
Otherwise: +$3. At the beginning of your cleanup phase, discard the set-aside card.

("Play an arbitrary card as if it were a Gold", combined with a bluffing game. The reward for honesty needs to be pretty big, because it's basically a blank card whenever you're honest and don't get called. There needs to not be a real penalty for getting caught bluffing because it's often difficult or impossible to be honest.)


Archimedes - Action - $2
+1 Card
+1 Action

In games using this, add Electrum to the Supply.

Electrum - Treasure - $5
Worth $3 if you have an Archimedes in play, otherwise $2.

(Just playing with the story of weighing the King's crown. Notwithstanding the effects of having a cantrip Action in your deck, opening Archimedes/Electrum is strictly worse than if you could open Gold/nothing, but on weak boards it might be your best option on a 5/2 split, so I think these prices are okay.)

38

Game Reports / Re: over coming perfect Chapel/Wharf opening

« on: March 08, 2013, 04:00:31 pm »

I bought the second chapel with my horrid turn 3 (CCEEE) in hopes to catch up with the thinning.

Look at it this way: Your next hand will be either

5 coppers -> buy the Wharf.
Chapel and 4 Coppers - yay, you get to trash 4 cards. Money density is not a problem because you already have an Ironworks that can get you treasure cards.
Ironworks and 4 Coppers -> Ironworks your Talisman and buy the Wharf.
Chapel, Ironworks and 3 Coppers, as in game -> you can Ironworks a second Ironworks and still trash 3 cards.

You don't need to trash that quickly. You have Wharf, after all. And *it won't really even work anyway* - now you have to get lucky to not have the two Chapels collide initially (*and* not draw them dead as you point out), and then the extra Chapel is an extra dead card that you *do* want to collide later (or keep for Vineyards I guess).

Also, did you consider picking up Jester later at all? He's advertised an intent to build a deck that's mostly high-value treasures and green cards. That's a great target. Yeah, you won't be able to power up your Vineyards directly, but...

39

Help! / SP actually good here?

« on: March 07, 2013, 01:17:31 pm »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201303/07/game-20130307-101512-3c546633.html

I don't understand... I didn't mess around with potions and just went for Wharf/BM on a huge board for it (Bank, Hoard) and got beaten out. How can the SP approach expect to catch up to this, especially when he can't really trash his starting cards - how is he drawing so reliably?

40

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Redemption expansion cards - updated

« on: March 06, 2013, 06:15:39 pm »

Pied Piper -- While it is correctly labeled as an Attack, this card is a benefit to the other players most of the time.  It scales strangely with game size too.  Against a single opponent, it is terrible from the start -- the best you are going to get is +$1.  In a 4 player game it becomes a lot better, likely netting you +$3, but the card will help all your opponents trim their deck AND it quickly dies off.  As you help your opponents trash Copper, it becomes harder for Pied Piper to hit.  Basically, I would almost never want this card and would be happy to see my opponent buy it.

The card might be more interesting if it has a secondary attack.  For example:

Pied Piper
$3 - Action-Attack
+1 Card
+1 Buy
Each other player trashes a Copper from his hand or gains 2 Coppers.  +$1 for each Copper trashed in this way.

Now, the trimming you help them with is only temporary.  Making them reveal their hand isn't necessary in this version; removing it simplifies the card and gives opponents an interesting choice to make.

... Now it's actually interesting, though it drifts even further from any apparent theme. At first it looks like you've weakened an already too-weak card (by giving opponents a strategic option), but sometimes the Copper gain will be compulsory and quite undesirable. It still feels weak to me though, and "+1 Card, +1 Buy" is a strange combination to me. Although it sort of makes sense in multi-player games when you're going to pull in a lot of money from it...

How would you price it with vanilla bonuses of +1 Card, +1 Action (cantrip)? Would that make it stronger than Familiar?

Re Savoyard: Yep, I meant it when I said to bump the cost to $5 after changing the card in that manner.

41

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion:Magic - now with over 9000% more Images (and Text, too)

« on: March 06, 2013, 06:06:34 pm »

I have almost no idea how the card effect is tied to the card name in most cases.

42

Game Reports / Re: In which I arguably should have gotten multiple Forges?

« on: March 06, 2013, 05:59:57 pm »

Yeah, I thought of that after posting. At the end of the game I had a surplus of Forge material which left me with the thought, but that would be no good in steady-state.

Also, it's quite possible that building up to triple-Province turns would not pay off the extra time needed to do so when you can reliably double-Province. But then I probably should get more Universities *anyway* :/

43

Help! / Duchy/Duke/Militia loses to Monument/BM?

« on: March 06, 2013, 05:58:44 pm »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201303/06/game-20130306-145721-d6a666cc.html

Help?

44

Game Reports / In which I arguably should have gotten multiple Forges?

« on: March 06, 2013, 02:53:28 pm »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201303/06/game-20130306-115101-568d2277.html

There was no +Buy, but I was able to repeatedly gain Library and Watchtower pairs with University, draw my deck with Scrying Pool (and sometimes Library/Watchtower support), Forge a pair into Province, and buy a second Province with $8 of economy. A rather amusing engine, all told.

45

Game Reports / Re: In which Thief is awesome...

« on: March 06, 2013, 11:14:29 am »

Also an excellent example where Thief is probably superior to NB.

Just because Platinum is out, or am I missing something else?

46

Game Reports / Re: Scrying Pool/Steward Conundrum

« on: March 06, 2013, 11:00:43 am »

Do you use Steward to draw 2 Cards to expedite the reshuffle?

This gets my vote.

There are no $4s except Scout, and even if you do pull in two wasted Coppers this way, the chance that it prevents you getting an early Witch is tiny - it only happens if the rest of your deck had both Estates at the bottom, i.e. 1 in 21. And it can't prevent you from getting at least $3 on turn 4. Buying FV (I guess?) is really the expected result on turn 4 regardless, so you might as well cycle and try again for a better line-up with the Steward.

[ETA: as carstimon correctly points out, the draw enables a $5 turn 4 just as often.]

For that matter, why don't you grab Witch yourself at any later point? I would definitely take it over the first Market, because what are you going to do with the +Buy? You already have a gainer for your engine pieces and it'll be a while before you're looking at anywhere near $16 hands. Actually, maybe not, now that I look at the total game length. Nice job grabbing multiple Stewards for the economy + trashing + to end the game.

47

Game Reports / Re: What's the best strategy on this board?

« on: March 06, 2013, 08:49:38 am »

FV is also hurt a lot by handsize attacks because it doesn't draw cards, so it's somewhat dead in a 3-card hand.

Counterpoint: it lets you carry forward a potentially critical $1 in economy to the next hand when that might be a 3-card hand.

48

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greatest Dominion moments 2013

« on: March 06, 2013, 08:45:35 am »

Same reason I play Scrying Pools after I've already drawn my deck and left a bad card topdecked for the opponent. Someone actually ragequit because of this once

49

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Redemption: A Set of Expansion Cards

« on: March 06, 2013, 08:44:03 am »

Yep.

... Why wouldn't Savoyard work with Counterfeit though?

50

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Shepherd: Action-Victory Card

« on: March 06, 2013, 08:42:35 am »

It says "Gain a card" (and there is no "if you do," clause)... but the described card to gain refers to "the trashed cards"; if you didn't exercise the option, then you haven't actually trashed an empty set of cards, and thus the card gaining fails.

I think.