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Messages - Mole5000

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26
Dominion General Discussion / Re: WW's Power Rankings
« on: August 19, 2013, 05:06:25 am »
So who wants to play a series of games with the top 10 cards then?

Or even one here we go through the sets of ten in order.

I predict a lot of really, really bad kingdoms.

27
Hold on. The log says that you had 5 Bridges in your deck. Your draw during turn 14's cleanup phase shows that you don't reshuffle and that you draw your last Bridge. So it was definitely somewhere in your draw pile.

I don't know if Goko displays cards in the order in which they are drawn. Assuming they are, your Watchtower would have not drawn the Silver. The next WM play will draw the Silver, reveal a Bridge and a WM, and discard a Copper. Here you would play your Minion for discard, drawing Bridge, WM, Copper, and WM. Play WM, drawing Minion and revealing Bridge, Copper, Copper. Play WM again to draw the 4th Bridge.

So then you'd have 4 buys on free WMs plus another buy for a Province.

Correct, I can't count to 5 apparently.

EDIT: I made my favourite mistake of thinking "4 buys?" must mean I've played 4 cards that give my +Buy.

28
On your final turn, I think you should have played your Watchtower before playing your Minion, then saved your Minion for when you had no more Actions in hand to play so that you could find your last Bridge.

I'd shuffled during Awaclus's turn 14 so, given that I discarded my final bridge when I played my Minion at the start of the turn, I had my full deck to get through before having a chance of seeing it.  By the time I got to the Minion I played for coin I don't think I had enough draw capability left in the deck to find it.

Although that's a post-hoc justification I never even considered that whilst playing through the hand.

29
I am but a lowley 4000 plus ranking player who has hit a lucky streak to get up around 5000 when with great trepidation I saw that Awaclus joined my game.
The Kingdom was powerful and I was quietly fuming after my Bridges had clashed on both turn 5 and then turn 7 (I am certainly not claiming any great play on my part, in fact I know I am being outplayed and am floundering).  On turn 14 it looked like Awaclus was primed to sweep me next turn.  So I got a lucky draw and ended the game in a tie by buying out the third stack.  I felt pretty pleased with myself. 

Then I checked the log an saw Awaclus's final hand and felt less pleased.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130809/log.514708c4e4b0cf33e05114cd.1376048503931.txt

30
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Showdown
« on: August 05, 2013, 07:23:22 am »
I've played Quarriors and Ascension.  Both of them add an extra level of randomness that I find unappealing.  Getting a bad draw of dice in Quarriors and then rolling sucky is like a one-two punch of fuck you from lady luck.

EDIT: With Quarriors I feel there's a really stellar game that just isn't there as it stands.  Ascension I just found way too random in 4 player - there's a chance it could improve a lot as a 2 player game.

31
Game Reports / Opponent doesn't understand how Smuggler works
« on: July 23, 2013, 12:23:37 pm »
And I still lose.

Twice my opponent played a Smuggler as the last card of his action chain when there was no card he could gain but clicked on a card to pickup (having entered his buy phase) without playing any of his money wasting monster 10 to 12 card hands.  And I still lost to him.  Mortifying doesn't begin to cover it.

I don't think he even believed my explanation to him about Smuggler when I told him through Chat what was going on after he complained the second time.

32
Just sidetracking for a bit here, but still relevant: Has anyone ever tried a drafting system (every player picks X cards) and did it lead to too many similar games or more varied games?

What I've done in the past is give every player a few random cards and let them pick which one to play with.
So for instance with 3 players I would give each player 6 random cards and let them pick 3. That gives us 9 kingdom cards and the tenth could be random.

It's a pretty fun mechanism. You could pick your own 3-card combo and be surprised it works great or not so well with the cards the others have chosen. If I recall correctly, it didn't automatically always include the same cards. Maybe too many Villages, but oh well.

There are other ways to draft, but in essence I find that it works decently enough.

We often do a draft but we also deal out one extra pile than there are players.  The random extra cards come from that pile.  We added the extra pile because we were finding that when the group had the whole set to choose from between us the Kingdoms started to seem rather similar.

33
Unless there is some interaction over tables that I don't see.

What is the chance that both tables play a game with Chapel in it?

Whether or not that is an actual problem I don't know.

34
2. While your point is possible, in such a case, the person who realized that their opponent is about to go off and decides to buy a province and lose 54-9 instead will be rewarded, relative to people with equal luck. 

That rewards suboptimal playing-for-second-place decks. A Big Money deck will always get a province or two before the engine takes off and buys the rest. Doesn't mean the BM deck was closer to winning than the engine deck which had zero points because it was building up to the mega-turn that the opponent got to first.

In a lot of games, the relevant measure is "winning by X turns" - not "winning by X points". If I'm one turn away from having my deck fire and buy everything when my opponent's deck fires and buys everything, that's a really close, really well-played game - we differed by only one turn, but that one-turn difference could be an arbitrarily number of points, anywhere from one point difference to MEGA-GOONS-TURN, where that point difference means little to nothing. Whereas in a deck where a BM+X strategy competes against a mega-turn engine, the BM+X will get a few provinces, making the score look close even if the engine was the optimal strategy by far.

Here's another example - Ambassador games! Whoever wins the ambassador war probably gives their opponent all 10 curses by the end of the game. Doesn't matter whether it was close or not close, whoever wins will give out all 10.

Oh, here's a BM+X example - duchy-dancing! I could buy the last province and lose by a point. OR, I could buy a duchy, with one province remaining, since that gives me a chance to win if on the next turn, my opponent buys an estate and I have a chance to grab the last province. The latter SHOULD be clearly the right play, since it gives you a chance to pull out a win. And yet, buying the province is likely to lead to "lose by 1", while playing to win is likely to have you lose by 10 (if the opponent buys the last province on the next turn). Rewards people who end the game with a loss as long as it's a loss by not very many points, rather than rewarding people that play for the chance to win.


...just don't do it. Points in Dominion are NOT  a valid indicator of quality of play; while they may seem to be such at first glance, it's not actually true.


Neither, really, are win/loss in a lot of cases either (see the "who happens to draw the KC/Bridge combo first in an otherwise mirrored match"), but we use that.  At least with this method you're more fundamentally comparing apples to apples.  I don't deny that it creates a somewhat different "winning" heuristic, I just deny that that's an inherently bad thing.

So the correct solution is to reject the idea that you can determine the 'quality' of a win and just accept that you only have win/lose/draw to work off rather than coming up with tournament rules that would totally distort play and in no way reflect the reality of the situation.

35
Game Reports / Re: Lose the Curse split 1-9, DM;WG
« on: July 11, 2012, 05:06:33 am »
Real Dominion Players buy all 10 curses.

36
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-043301-4fb54d55.html

Final turn saw me with a VP lead, 11 buys and 23 money but the cheapest stack to buy out costing 27 in total.  Until a flash of inspiration hit me.  I feel pretty good about this one given his Pirate ship hit my Gold on turn 7.

Couldn't you have bought 8 estates for $16?

You are indeed correct.  Well, don't I feel stupid now. 

37
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-043301-4fb54d55.html

Final turn saw me with a VP lead, 11 buys and 23 money but the cheapest stack to buy out costing 27 in total.  Until a flash of inspiration hit me.  I feel pretty good about this one given his Pirate ship hit my Gold on turn 7.

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