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51

Game Reports / The Intimidating Pirate?

« on: September 13, 2013, 09:04:30 pm »

Games like this make me go ARRRG.

Going back to my roots (I am the pirate ship economist), I saw this board and thought "Hey, I can do some kind of Scrying Pool-Pirate Ship - Hermit -Farming Village with Workshop to pull it all together."  And, if I could do that on this board, that would be pretty cool.  Anyway, my opponent quickly gets a Soothsayer, and for obvious reasons, my deck is taking a while to build. I'm behind 15 points (15-0) on my turn 14, but I line up a solid turn to start building my Pirates with Farming Villages (thanks Madman). 

After I play my first of 3 Pirate Ships, he immediately resigns.  Why?  If it was obvious that I was going to win, I don't see it.  No extra source of +buy, and at the time, my Pirates had very few tokens.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1379119836827.txt

52

Mini-Set Design Contest / Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity

« on: September 12, 2013, 07:27:09 pm »

14 votes:

Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

So, it looks like my card was (generally) well received.  As many of you so rightly pointed out, it is Rebuild for treasures (or kind of cantrip Mine).  But that is so much weaker than Rebuild, it got a +1 Card.  I then added putting it on top of your deck so you see the new treasure sooner, and put in the optional copper gain because it A) fits thematically and B) it is a drawback that I think is very very interesting.  I was debating between $5 and $6, but ultimately went with $6 because this outclasses (IMO) Mine by quite a bit.  Some people thought that this could cost $4 or $5, while some thought this was too strong even at $6.

Any suggestions on improving it?

Possibly make the Copper gain non-optional?  I think the cantrip Mine that puts on top of the deck is fair to cost the same as conventional Mine.  Then, the Copper gain would be a mild attack that might justify going from $5 to $6.  I'm not sure though.  Your idea got more votes than mine (small m).

53

Tournaments and Events / Re: An Alternative Scoring System for a Match-Play Tournament?

« on: September 11, 2013, 10:39:11 pm »

I'm not going to say it's necessarily bad (man, I don't think I'd like it, but that's a matter of taste), but what I will say is that it's significantly different from Dominion. In Dominion, your goal is to win the game, which means for instance you have all kinds of endgame strategies based on maneuvering around pile-outs and such. In your game, there isn't that, but there's points-running; the objective is to no longer win the game, but to maximize your score differential.

I agree with this assessment, and maybe I should have emphasized that what I had in mind was a Dominion variant tournament rather than a Dominion tournament.  That said, it looks like I'm by myself in thinking that this would be a fun idea.

Thanks all for your input.

----

To combat the runaway points idea, I had this thought: In a 6-game match, each player can throw out the worst loss so that only 4 games would count toward the VP total (this would allow resigning once, for example).  Not sure if that would make people feel better, but I have a feeling that the answer is no.  /end{idea}

54

Tournaments and Events / Re: An Alternative Scoring System for a Match-Play Tournament?

« on: September 11, 2013, 07:05:04 pm »

It's possible to create scenarios where points scoring completely fails. You could imagine a big vp chip scoring deck that just continues to accumulate points until the opponent buys out the copper, estate, and curse piles. That would be an awful method of deciding anything.

That's not the nature of the question that I asked.  Returning to regular Dominion, you can construct a board where a game takes 40 turns and it isn't possible to hold onto your VP because it keeps getting trashed (thinking... Saboteur, Knights, Rogue, Village support, and no way to counter it).  Based on that possibility, I'm not going to say that Dominion is an awful game because that Kingdom (while it sometimes comes up) doesn't happen often.

To take an example from math, it's possible to create scenarios where the simplex algorithm is terrible (worst case computational time is exponential), but in practice, it's not so bad.  And, as a result, it is taught and used by people who want to solve actual problems.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SimplexMethod.html

Returning to Dominion, my question was about the average case,* not the worst case.  Across random kingdoms, are the scenarios you can construct going to occur more than once out of 100 Kingdoms?  If the opponent is playing optimally (or at least trying to), are runaway victories going to be so pervasive that it would sap the fun out of it?

*Average is a bad word here.  What I am more interested in knowing is something like the 1st percentile case or the 5th percentile case.  In other words, if you play 20 matches under this point scheme with random kingdoms, how many "unfun" runaway victories will you end up with?  Anyone want to test that out?

55

Tournaments and Events / Re: An Alternative Scoring System for a Match-Play Tournament?

« on: September 11, 2013, 05:30:27 pm »

There's also the consideration that normally when you are ahead you should end the game as soon as you have the chance; sometimes, one player just has total control over the game, and the polite thing to do is just buy a Province and empty the last pile. This would normally be one of those "win by a point" engine three-piles. In this tournament, though, if I win the Ambassador war and my opponent has 20 Coppers and rising, I should prolong the game so that I can buy all of the remaining VP on the board. That doesn't sound fun for my opponent!

Agreed that this sometimes happens and that this scenario would be no fun for your opponent. In this scenario, I suspect that non-Amb opponent would do what he could to minimize the damage, including trying to 3-pile himself (maybe that's interesting).  That situation is a bit torturous (and Amb is one of my least favorite cards).  That said, I'm all for trying to avoid a total breakdown in Dominion decorum when it comes to running up the score.  Any ideas on tweaks to the system (caps on margin of victory, etc.), or is there no way to make this fun?

56

Tournaments and Events / Re: An Alternative Scoring System for a Match-Play Tournament?

« on: September 11, 2013, 04:53:23 pm »

Some comments.

Or even in simpler cases, say you're up +5 points from the last game. There are two provinces left and you're down a duchy. Duchy dancing really isn't the proper move here. If you buy a duchy, the other guy can possibly win by 9 if you get a poor hand next turn. Better to hedge your bets and just lose by three. So you wind up taking the boring safe approach.

Why is that a "boring safe approach"?   Properly thought through: You have a lead of 2 with two Provinces remaining (+5 from last kingdom and -3 from this one), so buying the Province is the right play.  In a single game of Dominion, is it boring to buy a Province when you're up 2 VP? 

Consider a couple of counter points. 

(1) Suppose you're up 5 after 3 games, and in Game 4, you're behind 3 with two Provinces remaining (and no other sources of VP).  In the match, you have two games to go after this.  Do you Duchy Dance?  I haven't properly thought it through, so forgive me if that's a dumb question, but it is new decisions like this that motivated my proposal/suggestion.
(2) Go back to your example.  If you're down 5 VP going into the final game, don't you adopt a riskier strategy that won't just win if it works, but will have a chance of making up the 5 point deficit?  That's a similar principle to Duchy Dancing, but it has a longer strategy arc.  Seems exciting to me, anyway.

A meta-point.  After you've done the Duchy Dance 200 times, is it really that exciting to get into another run-of-the-mill Duchy Dance?  Don't get me wrong.  I love Dominion as is, and Duchy Dancing is part of that love, but this post is about imagining a different variant on the scoring system.

And so on and so forth. That's the extreme case, but it repeats in smaller ways in other games. The number of points you win by is often more a representation of what the game was like rather than how much better you played than your opponent.

BM-ish province games have margins of 3-9 points. Engine games have a margin of either 1 point (win on piles, buy one estate) or 25+ points (piles don't get low enough, somebody gets their engine going and wins 6 provinces to 2 or so) or 50+ points (colony games, vp chip engines, etc). Rush games have tiny margins of victory, like winning by a few estates or by a 3-5 gardens split where each gardens is worth 2. Games where you build an engine which includes a trashing attack have margins of victory which are as big as you can make them - just trash the opponent's entire deck, lock them down, buy up VP.

This is a fair point, and an admitted weakness of the total VP scoring system, but the system is fair before knowing whether you've won one of those big payoff games.  That is, before the game, either player has a chance to be the player who get the win (which on different kingdoms and different shuffling have different expected value of points).  In principle, I don't see anything wrong with some games having larger prizes (I win by 20 versus 1), but I would be worried about frequent, degenerate gameplay.  Adding VP across games just puts more weight on winning those kingdoms that have greater expected margin.

Don't forget Sea Hag games where you win -2 to -7.

That's pretty similar to a regular Province game where you win 33- 28.  Going back to ftl's point, Sea Hag games probably have a lower expected margin of victory than regular Province games.  I don't mind putting less weight on ugly low margin games, but that's my taste, and there's no accounting for taste.

Most of all, I think it would be interesting to play a tournament by a different set of rules than ordinary Dominion... just for variety's sake.  As I mentioned at the outset, I love the Gokodom setup.  Maybe something else might be fun too?

57

Tournaments and Events / An Alternative Scoring System for a Match-Play Tournament?

« on: September 11, 2013, 02:27:32 pm »

I want to preface this post by saying that I love the match-play scoring system used in Gokodom.  What follows is not a critique of this system, but an alternative scoring system that might be fun to try in a small (or large) match-play tournament.

Total Victory Points Scoring.  This system has the following features:

• Each match consists of an even number of regulation games of Dominion.
• Each player has the opportunity to sit as first player the same number of times.  Alternating first seat is an option, but you could use the Gokodom seating chart, too.
• The score for the match will be determined by the player who obtains the largest number of VP across the games in the match. The player with the most VP wins the match. 
  
  • In the event of a tie in the number of VP, the player who took the fewest turns across all games wins the match.
  • If, in addition to having the same number of VP, both players took the same number of turns, the player who won the most regulation games of Dominion wins the match.
  • If the number of points, number of turns, and number of regulation Dominion wins is equal for both players, the players rejoice in their shared victory.
• In the event of an outright win, two points are awarded to the victor.  In the event of a shared victory, both players earn one point.  Non-winners get zero points.
• To make sure everyone gets to have fun, you could run some number (to be determined) of Swiss rounds where playing better means you play better opponents.  At the end of the Swiss rounds, the best players could match up against one another in a bracket-style tourney.

Basically, I got the idea by watching a re-run of a Jeopardy Teen Tournament Final.  This scoring system is to Dominion as pooling winnings across multiple days is to Jeopardy.  And, if it is good enough for Jeopardy, it is good enough for me.

Moreover, I think it would be fun to play a Tournament that is governed by these rules.  If I had the ambition and/or time, I would organize a tournament to be played through Goko's lovely interface that adheres to these rules, but I don't have time (yet... right now... we'll see). I think this tweak in the scoring would lead to some interesting changes to how people play.  To cite two examples: (1) the scoring system would tamp down risky endgame strategies that rely on praying for the perfect storm -- i.e., it will usually be optimal to end a game while behind so as not to lose by too much; and (2) the scoring system would facilitate running up the score when you could easily end the game.  Obviously, the latter scenario is an issue in fun.  A modified system could mitigate this by capping the margin of victory in any particular game, but I'd rather not modify the system that way.

Some questions for discussion:

• Would you play in a Tournament governed by a refined version of these rules (keeping the spirit of Total VP Scoring)?
• Are there natural extensions to 3P or 4P matches?  Multiplayer games can be fun, too, and I find that my only excuse to play multiplayer is if there's a multiplayer tournament (OK, not really... looking at you Polk5440 and Bella Cullen).
• Are there any fun hybrids of Total VP and Gokodom style matches?  One thought: You play 6 games, and each match has a Total VP point and a match point up for grabs.
• How often do runaway boards happen where one player wins by an insurmountable margin in one game, making the rest of the match moot?  If this probability is low enough, maybe the system is as broken as the KC-Discard-Masq pin.  If it is likely, what changes would fix it?
• Any other thoughts?

58

Mini-Set Design Contest / Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands

« on: September 11, 2013, 01:39:19 pm »

For Witch Doctor, there is a noted broken combo with tunnel, but is there any way we could reword WD so it works?

Easy enough.  Instead of "reveal and discard any number of Victory and Curse cards from it." you could say "reveal any number of Victory and Curse cards, and place them in the discard pile."  that's a Chancellor-esque fix, but it might be a confusing subtlety. I think some people are confused by this existing distinction, anyway.

59

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom II: Round 5 Discussion Thread

« on: September 10, 2013, 10:11:42 am »

Commentary on my match against ashersky.  ashersky wins 4-2 after my winning the first two.  Meta-comment: I think I was lucky to be up 2-0 (see messy game 2), and as of right now (writing this as I go), I'm not sure what happened.

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378815145033.txt No Pawns 31, ashersky 0

Stonemason, Rats, Market Square, Apprentice, Horn of Plenty.  See a strategy there?  Oh, and Forager.  We both go for it, and I pick up Forager early.  Maybe that helps me MS-a-Gold early while he is unable to do so with MS-a-Gold via Rats until late.  I then Stone my Gold into some fun fives, collect HoP, and it's only a matter of time before I cash it all in and end on piles.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378815605148.txt No Pawns 19, ashersky 18

Workshop, Gardens, Sea Hag.  I'm not convinced I played better, but I win the Gardens split.  Then, I try to seal the victory by buying down Curses.  There's a tense moment where ashersky grabs a Duchy, and gets a one-point lead with one Curse remaining.  But, I'm able to match his Duchy (luckily!) and I win by one.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378816806341.txt No Pawns 23, ashersky 24

This was an interesting Tactician-Vault game with Colonies.  We both end up swinging into double-Tac, Vault, many Villages (Worker's and Vanilla), Margrave, and Smithy.  He ends it on a clever buy-all-the-Estates turn that I didn't see coming.  And, he had just enough money to do it.  If he didn't end it then, I would have found a way to 3 pile on the next turn... I think.

Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378818198230.txt No Pawns 31, ashersky 32

This was a messy-deck game.  He goes Scrying Pool, Rats, Swindler, while I go Swindler-BM.  I figure that if I go heavy Swindler, I can hit his Potion, make a mess of his deck, and the Scry won't get to me.  He uses the Scry-Swinder pin to good effect.  On the second to last turn, he unDuchied me, and then bought a Curse to 3-pile with a one-point win.  In retrospect, I should not have emptied Estates on the previous turn because I had a better chance to Province than he could, but I thought it was a calculated risk.  Also, we didn't know the score on this one because #vpon was not said.

Game 5: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378819025209.txt No Pawns 60, ashersky 64

Fairgrounds was on the board, so was HoP and University.  So maybe power up Fairgrounds without trouble.  The cards sorta worked well together too, but I didn't have a well defined strategy on this one.  He gets out to a sizeable early lead, and I decide that Fairgrounds is my only plausible route to victory.  Honestly, my initial idea was to Hermit Silvers, Noble Brigand fairly heavily, and use Embassy to sift to $8.  I ended up going light on NB once he got out to his lead.  Maybe I should have had more discipline, but this just looks like a natural Fairgrounding board.

Game 6: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378819567302.txt No Pawns 37, ashersky 47

Ironmonger, Bishop, Haggler, and Farmland are in the kingdom.  I go heavy on Ironmongers with the intent to sometime pick up a Farmland.  I never hit $6 with an Estate to trash into Bishop, but ashersky does.  I get Golds and stuff, but he just builds up more steam with essentially $6 Provinces every time he draws a Farmland.  If memory serves correctly, I have a chance to end it in a tie near the end.

I can't say that I'm happy I lost 4-2 after being up 2-0, but it seems that ashersky took the better route on Games 4-6 after out-endgaming me on Game 3.  Well played, ashersky.  Thanks for the games.

60

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom II: Round 5 Results *ONLY*

« on: September 10, 2013, 09:28:17 am »

My match against ashersky.  ashersky wins 4-2 after my winning the first two.

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378815145033.txt No Pawns 31, ashersky 0
Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378815605148.txt No Pawns 19, ashersky 18
Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378816806341.txt No Pawns 23, ashersky 24
Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378818198230.txt No Pawns 31, ashersky 32
Game 5: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378819025209.txt No Pawns 60, ashersky 64
Game 6: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130910/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378819567302.txt No Pawns 37, ashersky 47

Analysis to come in the other thread.

61

Mini-Set Design Contest / Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #2: Hinterlands

« on: September 10, 2013, 01:35:38 am »

I will pick three five eight (couldn't resist) cards that I like.  A couple of notes:

• I like the idea of having a workshop variant for Hinterlands.  It's one of the easiest ways to fatten a deck, and if the problem is that Hinterlands doesn't have a lot of <$4 cost cards to gain, that's not such a problem in the Treasure Chest expansion.  Thus, I judge the cards Hinterlandsy'ness on the basis of whether it feels good in the general universe of cards, but also has that special Hinterlands flair that I have all grown to love.
• I think a card is better if the above and below the line tend to synergize.  This isn't necessary, but when it happens, or if there's a theme, I'm a sucker for that

Other than that, let's get onto my favorites.

Palanquin
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may discard an Action card. If you do, +1 Card per $ it costs.

Don't hate me for liking this, but I like the idea of having an Apprentice that uses renewable energy.  Get a deck full of actions, and you'll maybe be able to play more of them than if you had Apprentice.  Sometimes it helps to not trash the card... kinda like the difference between Throne Room and Procession.

River
Types: Victory
Cost: $3
Worth 2 VP.
When you gain this, all cards except Victory cards cost $2 less, but not less than $0.

"The only water in the forest is the river."  I like the on gain effect here.  I think people have been missing that this is on gain. For fun, imagine we're in a Colony game with Border Village, River, and Ironworks.  I get a hand of Border Village, Ironworks, Ironworks, Copper, Copper.  Play BV, draw Copper.  Play Ironworks, gain River, draw Silver.  Play Ironworks, gain BV, gain River.  Now, I have $5 in hand and Platinum costs $5.  Rock on, River Song!

Witch Doctor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+$1. Look through your deck; reveal and discard any number of Victory and Curse cards from it. Shuffle your deck.
When you gain this, put your deck into your discard pile.

Pretty nice.  I would like it better if the on gain effect were to use its effect fully -- i.e., "Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile.  Reveal and discard any number of Victory and Curses.  Shuffle."

Mill
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Each other player draws a card. Gain a card costing up to $5.
When you gain this, eachthoer player discards down to 3 cards in hand.

I like the self synergy, and the incentive to try and pile these by oneself.

Safe House
Types: Victory – Reaction
Cost: $3
Worth 2 VP.
When you gain a card costing $0, you may discard this. If you do, gain a Gold.

Yes. Please. Just swingy enough and messes up how curses work counters cursers, ruiners, and copper flooders.  Note: This doesn't say to gain a Gold instead of a Curse, so you gain both.  Thus, I'm not sure if I want Trader or this in hand when my opponent hits me with Mountebank.  I like how this does to Cursers and Junkers what Tunnel does to discard attacks.

Chapterhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$1. Draw until you have 6 cards in hand. Discard 2 cards.
When you buy this, each other player draws a card. When you gain this, each other player with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.

I like this lots.  As a Dominion fanboy, I like the separation between buy and gain.

Barn
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard a card. If you discarded a Victory or Curse card, gain a Treasure costing up to $4. Otherwise, +$1 and gain a Victory card costing up to $4. Put the gained card into your hand.
When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4, putting it onto your deck.

I like what this card does to the deck composition.  It floods Silver if you are clogged.  It gains cheap victory cards when you are not clogged (Tunnel, Silk Road, etc).  Seems like a good Alt-VP enabler.  More than that it is cheap to pick up if there are any sub-$5 Actions you would like to play next turn.

Pyramid
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. +$1. +1 Card per Pyramid you have in play. Discard one card per Pyramid you have in play.
When you buy this, gain an extra copy of it.

I like that the effect goes with the name.  Clever idea.  Makes me want to build a Pyramid Scheme deck.

62

Game Reports / Re: (When) Is Procession Good?

« on: September 08, 2013, 02:43:50 pm »

Article - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4988.0.

Here I think you created a good deck for throne room/menagerie/courtyard/monument. The processions acted as a tolerable substitute for the throne rooms. You were also able to draw cards on the turn they were gained and this is a strong feature of gaining cards.

Salvager also felt important to my deck -- more than just being a trasher to activate my Menageries, it gave some buys that helped me replenish my low cost cards, while still buying things at the end.  I'm not sure how important that feature of the deck was, but I thought it to be important at the time.

Nice point about drawing the cards gained on the turn played.  I noticed that I was doing this halfway through, and I thought, "oh, that's nice!"

63

Game Reports / (When) Is Procession Good?

« on: September 08, 2013, 02:03:23 pm »

I played this game against Polk5440.  As it was a friendly game, I decided to take an exploratory "stupid" strategy of trying to do Procession when there isn't a continuous chain of actions to the high end (no $5 cost cards here).  Somehow, I get a Courtyard-Menagerie-Procession-Monument-Salvager thing to work.  How did this happen so quickly?  Any Procession Gurus out there care to weigh in on what made this work?

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130908/log.50ba29b8e4b015dcbac5f45a.1378663195678.txt

64

Mini-Set Design Contest / Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity

« on: September 04, 2013, 11:54:30 pm »

Here are the cards I like the best.

Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

This is interesting.  A nonterminal mine that draws the mined treasure if you've got two of them.  Not sure how to gauge the power of this though.

Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.
In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

I like the "give up VP for a card in hand" mechanic, but one VP per card is a bit steep.  This mechanic could be tweaked.

Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

This could be bonkers with Silver gainers, but you'd need a source of +Buy for that kinda bonkering.  I like the idea, not sure how much it'll change the game.

Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.
While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

I actually really like this one.  This could really mess with endgame conditions though.  Perhaps tweak it by capping the number of VP tokens?

King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.

I like this, and I'm not sure why.

Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2
When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

I like the idea.  Interesting tradeoff: use the money or get the VP.

Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

Interesting.  To pile up the VP, you pump your opponents full of either (a) power $5s or (b) 3 VP of their own.  Not sure if this will ever be worth it, but I'd like to try making it worth it.

Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.
When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.

Interesting on-gain effect that interacts w/ prosperity.  Plus, it is expensive and a $4 card.

Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.

Feels like an easier Madman without the actions, maybe that makes it not as easy, and thus, more balanced than at first blush.  I love Madman.

Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.

This is interesting.  I like the VP interaction, but it may need to be tamed.

Queen's Palace
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
You may choose a Treasure card in your hand. Play it three times.

Interesting.  Decent.  Fun enough.  Thematic.

Hedge Fund
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.
Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

I like this mechanic.  As some others have mentioned, this could do with a +1 VP cost.  In any event, I'm a big fan of the VP for stuff idea.  Maybe that's broken, but it is cool.

Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.

As it reads, this trashes itself.  Seems like a special type of deck that would work with this.  Maybe a deck that wants no treasure and has lots of synthetic money.  In this case, Palladium will be an uber deck thinner that has a one-shot economy boost and non clogging VP.  Intriguing.  Not sure about the balance of powers.

Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.

Living dangerously.  I think it would be fun to see how this plays out.  Great way to combat Ruins.  Interesting that you'll (with some probability) have choices about what to trash for some types, but never all types.

65

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread

« on: September 04, 2013, 10:36:59 am »

Not much to see here, but I'll try to make my commentary somewhat entertaining.

Fabian sweeps No Pawns 3-0.

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378227186029.txt Fabian 36, No Pawns 28

One-handed Sword Fight.  A Familiar mirror where I get 2P on my first opportunity to use Potion to buy Familiar.  That turn sorta felt like I got my left arm lopped off early in the sword fight.  I grab a Tactician, which consistently allows me to pool two bad hands into a mediocre hand ($6 or so), but the whole thing feels off balance.  If I swing really hard, I can get up to $8, but I'm buried in Curses (7, I think) with no way to get rid of them.   I'm happy that the game was as "close" as it was.  Tactician helped stem the tide for me, but it didn't prevent defeat.  This game was all too Familiar for my taste.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378227593557.txt Fabian 33, No Pawns 28

Walking the Plank Now, I realize that this isn't thematic.  Pirate ship and Salvager weren't on the board, but after losing the one-handed sword fight in the first game, this game felt like I was being nudged down a plank with no where to go.  In retrospect, it was an obvious Horse Traders into Duke-Duchy game.  I have a 5-2 opening and chapel is on the board.  I half heartedly open Chapel/Trading Post, thinking that maybe I can build some economy and get some Provinces in the mix with Duke-Duchy, but I realize quickly that is too slow (HT, after all, just needs one copper in hand to get two Estates per turn once Dukes and Duchies are out).  Seeing my impending peril, I abandon my original plan, and just go into Horse Traders like Fabian.  He had a 4-3 opening, which for the HT-Duchy-Duke strategy is much better.  He edges a small lead, and late game, I'm hoping to luckily pop a Province.  I take one more step on the plank, and now I'm swimming with the sharks.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378227943934.txt Fabian 26, No Pawns 22

Try to Rebuild A Raft, but I am Feasted Upon.  I get a 5-2 opening with Rebuild on the board.  Fabulous Fabian has 4-3 for an opener.  I'm thinking that this is my shot to win on openers, but 4-3 has Feast going for it.  I get so excited with my 5-2 that I open Rebuild-Estate (With an extra reshuffle, how could I not Rebuild all of my Estates?), but if I realized Feast's ravaging effects in advance, I would have opened Rebuild-nothing, I think.  I'm still not sure of that choice.  Maybe this is a board where 4-3 is a better opening than 5-2.  There isn't anything good at 2 to help the Rebuild with economy to get up to 5 (Duchess anyone?), and Feast isn't so bad here to get Rebuilds and close out the Duchies.  Anyway, after the opening, we eventually split the Duchies evenly and he's ahead of me because he's able to get more Rebuilds with his Feasting method while I struggle to get up to $4 in the early and mid game.  Now, I am no longer swimming with the sharks.  I'm their Feast.  And, Fabian's Feast seals the deal.

As they say, luck is where preparation meets opportunity.  In this match, I didn't feel like I had many opportunities to do much interesting, but kudos to Fabian for taking full advantage of the opportunities that came his way.  Before sitting down with the kingdoms, I knew I'd need some good luck and favorable boards to come out on top because I knew Fabian was good.  That didn't happen, and Fabian crushed me.

66

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom II: Round 3 Results *ONLY*

« on: September 03, 2013, 01:08:28 pm »

Round 4 Fabian sweeps me 3-0.

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378227186029.txt Fabian 36, No Pawns 28
Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378227593557.txt Fabian 33, No Pawns 28
Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378227943934.txt Fabian 26, No Pawns 22

I don't see a Round 4 thread, but I'll repost it there once there is one.

67

Game Reports / My Baron is a Madman

« on: September 02, 2013, 11:54:58 am »

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130902/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378137122697.txt

I was playing my wife (Bella Cullen), and when I pulled off the Madman+Baron turn, she started clapping.

68

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom II: Round 3 Discussion Thread

« on: August 31, 2013, 12:24:28 am »

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5068c69551c38622de84eb0e.1377721728081.txt
Walrus 13 - TA 18

A Swindler-heavy game. His Ironworks is much more effective than my Talisman at picking up Ironmongers. In fact, that makes perfect thematic sense--why didn't I realize that before? How Ironic.

New idea for a Goko username: Ironic Ironmonger

69

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom II: Round 3 Discussion Thread

« on: August 30, 2013, 12:20:12 am »

With AHoppy on vacation out of the country and extremely short on availability, I am well on my way to the pinnacle of mediocrity: three draws!

If your opponent is barely available due to being on vacation he could have asked for a buy. Not doing so should mean that you get the win.

Or, if Squire is on the board, you could play it for +2 Buys.  Sometimes that can get you a win as well.

70

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom II: Round 3 Discussion Thread

« on: August 28, 2013, 12:11:03 pm »

No Pawns Intended defeats Joseph2302 3-1

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377703283245.txt Joseph 36, No Pawns 28

This game was kinda decided by my opponent's 5-2 opening.  Cultist is on the board, so is Death Cart.  Before seeing his 5-2, I had ideas that I might go Armory into Silvers and Feodumdumdums, but I changed my strategy into a zany "Hey! I'll take all the Ruins!" strategy where I use Death Carts to make good on ruins.  Guess what?  Ruins are bad.  I lose in a pile of Ruins.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377703806726.txt Joseph 23, No Pawns 30

This game was kinda decided by my 5-2 opening.  I open Butcher-Moat on a board with Young Witch and *Moat* is the Bane.  So, Young Witch is strong.  I Butcher my Estates into additional Moats and a Silver, and his Young Witch never hits.  That was probably lucky on my part, but I'll take it.  Butcher is good at accelerating my win by sealing the victory late game.  I <3 Butcher.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377704230842.txt Joseph 29, No Pawns 34

This was an interesting IGG-pseudo rush game.  There was IGG-Gardens-Develop, and a couple of sources of +Buy - Woodcutter and Bridge.  Joseph2302 opens Woodcutter, Bridge - effectively announcing that he's going to be picking up some Gardens.  I go Silver/Bridge with the intent of hitting some IGGs, playing a rush and seeing where it goes.  I also pick up a Develop because IGG-into-Gardens is nice, too.  All in all, I slog it out.  I guess I had better economy because I lose the Gardens split, abandon buying IGGs, and just focus on piledriving Duchies.  I'm not quite sure why I won out on this one.  Maybe he didn't build much economy and with the Gardens and Curses, there wasn't much to do.  I felt like I could have played it better, but a win is a win.

Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377705138790.txt Joseph 32, No Pawns 43

A Black Market game!  I haven't played with Black Market on Goko, so I'm eager (perhaps too eager) to pick it up.  Scanning the black market, Mountebank is in there, and so is Hermit.  Both look enticing to me, and figure that if I could pick one or both up, that would be worth it.  So, I follow Joseph2302 by opening Marauder-Black Market.  I didn't have a better idea, and I didn't want to get all the ruins (see first game).  I pick up a Torturer for the draw, and get a stack of Native Villages.  My Black Market nets me an early Hermit, which I accidentally turn into a Madman (had no money that turn, and forgot... I wanted it for the trashing, oh well), and a midgame Mountebank.  City is on the board, and Joseph2302 picks up an early City, but I make it my mission to not let it become a City-draw-your-deck-game... mindful of piles, mindful of piles.  I get a couple of provinces from spreading money across turns with Native Village, a natural province, and I guess, a province from my Madman turn.  I wind up having about a 10 point lead with a few Provinces to go, and I milk it by junking with Mountebank.  I end the game on piles by buying the last Duchy for a comfortable win.

Thanks for the games Joseph2302!  I liked that the boards were pretty interesting, allowing for divergent strategies.  Plus, I felt like each of us had our share of luck (maybe me more than my opponent), and each game had a different flavor.  Good luck with the rest of the tourney, Joseph2302.

71

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom II: Round 3 Results *ONLY*

« on: August 28, 2013, 11:53:59 am »

No Pawns Intended defeats Joseph2302 3-1

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377703283245.txt Joseph 36, No Pawns 28
Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377703806726.txt Joseph 23, No Pawns 30
Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377704230842.txt Joseph 29, No Pawns 34
Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1377705138790.txt Joseph 32, No Pawns 43

Thanks for the games Joseph2302!

72

Game Reports / Re: I think my opponent did too much wandering in this one

« on: August 27, 2013, 11:01:34 am »

As soon as you get the mint, it's not about hitting the potion, it's about hitting the mint. Before, it's about hitting either of your treasures. Alchs are immune, but they're also on top... which means that they're letting everything which has a possibility of getting hit has a higher probability. So for instance, you get mint on turn 21. There are 19 cards in your deck. 7 Are alchemists, so assuming I am actually playing 4 knights a turn, I hit 6 cards out of 12 non-alchemists. On every turn, I either need to hit all your gold (this turn, it was only 1) or your mint, and you are in pretty bad shape. Now, there's also some chance that I am not actually playing all those every turn, and a small chance you can protect your key card if I hit another.

So, I think you're pretty lucky to have that, but not like obscenely lucky - not too long after this, you have more cards, and very importantly more gold. Of course, hitting potion early would be nice, too, but it's a game.

Thanks for posting that.  The Mint was a calculated risk because I saw that your Knights were going to ravage my deck.  That said, a lot of my economy was tied up in the Mint, and at the time, I didn't fully appreciate that grabbing the Mint would increase your chances of hitting good stuff. The goal was to Mint Gold every turn to combat the eventual loss of Gold.  Fortunately for me, that worked out, but it is interesting to see the game from your perspective.

As you note, having the 8 Alchemists helped a lot because it meant that you could trash at most 3 cards on turns after I had full draw.  From that perspective, a 9th Alchemist might have been even better.

**Weird side note: I don't understand why my custom avatar doesn't show up on your end.  On my end, it's picture of me with a devilish smile, holding a couple of boxes of Dominion cards. **

73

Game Reports / I think my opponent did too much wandering in this one

« on: August 26, 2013, 11:48:14 pm »

I didn't know a game like this was possible. 

Wandering Winder + Wandering Minstrel + Knights < Alchemist + Mint + Softly Singing Angels.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1377364695305.txt

FWIW: This must have been luck, right?  What are the chances that WW doesn't trash my Potion for the entire game when he plays 4 Knights each turn?

** His game also said "Recording for Youtube" ... Will it make its way to the channel?  Or, is it not interesting enough? **

74

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread

« on: August 25, 2013, 07:55:24 pm »

Here is the commentary on the draw between Jdaki and myself.

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377461478129.txt Jdaki 38 No Pawns 32

This game was a tricky Swindler game.  Feodum was in the kingdom, so was Pirate Ship, but Tournament was key.  We both open Swindler/Tournament.  Jdaki gets more Gold than I do in the midgame, and kinda maintains a tenuous lead throughout the game.  Interesting strategic note: I forgot that point tracker was on (and that we had agreed to have it on) until about 2/3 through the game when Jdaki gets the Trusty Steed and starts milking it for Silver.  There was an interesting "trash a Feodum" give him something else tension in the midgame.  At the end, I got a small lead on the turn before Jdaki closed it out.  This one was just too messy for me to really know what was optimal.  I think Jdaki's early game Golds ended up being key.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377462230173.txt Jdaki 15 No Pawns 44

This was a Governor game.  I hadn't played Governor since isotropic went down, but I was happy to see it.  Grand Market was on the board, but I think it was a little bit of a trap -- too slow to build up to multiple province turns with Govna'.  Anyway, I supplemented my Governor with some Death Carts that landed me some super early Provinces.  With Jdaki pumping me full of Silver, me gaining Gold, and getting labbed by Jdaki's governor-for-the-draw, the game ended quickly.  I also liked that Jdaki bought Masq for me to give him some of the ruins I ended up not trashing because of my Death Cart.


Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377462858608.txt Jdaki 39 No Pawns 33

This one was interesting.  I open Chapel/Silver with the intention to go into a Journeyman draw bonanza.  Jdaki opens Silver-Silver for a BM-Ghost Ship thing.  My Journeyman was sort of an interesting soft counter to Ghost Ship, but his strategy ends up pulling through in the end.  He had to buy the last two Provinces, and he did.  I think the difference was likely the fact that I bought Rogue midgame instead of another Gold.  That was probably a bad decision.  Maybe the Caches were a bad idea.  I'm not sure, but I sure stalled in the last couple of turns.

Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377463473151.txt Jdaki 30 No Pawns 40

This one felt Kludgy.  I opened Monument/Silver with the intent to pile up some VP chips while slowing down his Smugglers/Tournament open with Witch later on.  But, I ended up having massive Monument/Witch collision.  Favoring Witch over Monument when they collided was a good idea and I feel like it really slowed him down.  He piled up 7 Tournaments, Scavenger had some utility for me, but in the end, this one came down to Witching well.  Maybe it was luck too.  I'm not sure.


Game 5: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377464196533.txt Jdaki 35 No Pawns 32

I was really disappointed in this one, mostly because of the path dependence of the game.  Sea Hag, Upgrade, Ghost Ship, and both Fishing and Farming Villages were key.  Also, Moat was on the board.  My goal at the outset was to get Sea Hag, get some Upgrades to clean out the inevitable Curses, maybe a Moat or two, and use the Farming Village to skip past the Curses I didn't manage to trash.  What was disappointing was that the first two plays of Jdaki's Hag flipped my Upgrade.  Such is life.  I adapted by getting money and more money, and trying to get points while I could.  Nevertheless, I knew that some Villagey Ghost Ship thing was headed my way, and the fact that I was two cards thicker than I should have been was going to mean that his deck was going to be way faster to that than mine.  Thus, I decided to plan on Ghost Ship mitigation rather than full-on trying to do what he was going to do.  And, it almost worked.  By the time he was Ghost Shipping me every turn, I had a significant Province lead, and some key cards like Moat and several Farming Villages to help with the mitigation.  It wasn't enough, but it was the best effort I felt I could put forth given the path that I ended up following.  Despite not buying a single GS, I only lose by 3.


Game 6: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377464881596.txt Jdaki 37 No Pawns 42

This game was interesting, and then frustrating, and then interesting again.  Noble Brigand was on the board, and I decided from the beginning that it would be key.  As such, I invested heavily in Cache, and made sure I had the NB upper hand.  Plus, you could probably say that my NBs hit pretty well.  I stake a lead that I see Jdaki trying to eat away by getting Duchies.  So, I get some Duchies too.  We run out Duchies and both start really, really, really choking on Green.  So, we buy more Estates.  At some point in the midgame, I picked up an Herbalist, which helped me keep playing good money.  Once Estates ran out, I had a 7 point lead with one Province remaining... 5 or 6 NBs remaining and Vineyard is on the board.  Jdaki's only path to victory is to buy potion and get some Vineyards.  I know this, and hope that I can hit $4 5 to 6 more times.  Herbalist feels like it is key in this task, and I successfully close out before Jdaki can climb up the Vine wall to nab a Province.

All in all, these games were definitely thinkers, and there was lots of variety.  Thanks to Jdaki for the interesting set of games.

75

GokoDom / Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Results *ONLY*

« on: August 25, 2013, 05:10:35 pm »

No Pawns Intended and  Jdaki draw for the match 3-3

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377461478129.txt Jdaki 38 No Pawns 32
Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377462230173.txt Jdaki 15 No Pawns 44
Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377462858608.txt Jdaki 39 No Pawns 33
Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377463473151.txt Jdaki 30 No Pawns 40
Game 5: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377464196533.txt Jdaki 35 No Pawns 32
Game 6: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377464881596.txt Jdaki 37 No Pawns 42

Those were fun, Jdaki.  Every game felt close.