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Puzzles and Challenges / Re: My Dominion Logic Puzzle
« on: June 29, 2011, 12:38:31 pm »
Don't 4 piles need to be empty to end a 4 player game on piles?
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252
General Discussion / Re: Math Nerds...
« on: June 27, 2011, 05:35:03 pm »
I know all the digits in pi, just not the particular order...
253
Feedback / Re: Card link tags
« on: June 27, 2011, 05:31:16 pm »This is a great idea, I'd love to have it. In spite of playing 200+ games, there are still cards that I don't know the exact text for
I have the opposite problem - whenever I see a dominion card name anywhere else, in almost any context, the card text pops into my head.
The local movie theatre says "will be open after remodel" and I think, cool, they're going to trash the theatre and get a new one costing up to $2 more...
That said, I do like the idea. There are cards with subtle word differences that are sometimes at issue (e.g., TR v. KC). Plus, it's really helpful for new players.
254
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Awesome Mechanics; Meh Flavor
« on: June 27, 2011, 05:26:54 pm »(maybe time-traveler?).
I always think of haven as a time machine. I'll even say when I put a card into it "I'll send this off into the future."
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Dominion Isotropic / Re: Reconnection counter, long games, and a crappy ISP policy
« on: June 27, 2011, 05:24:56 pm »
I have this problem all the time using safari on my ipad. I find that typing into the text box and deleting it, or even just hitting enter in the text box, will fix it. The other thing I do is click on the card I plan on playing first next turn - that helps, but doesn't work as well if you have something like Caravan/Warf/Council Room bouncing around which could change your next turn.
256
Game Reports / Re: Ambassador/Ambassador vs. Ambassador/Silver
« on: June 24, 2011, 01:33:45 pm »
I tried a double ambassador open the last time it showed up due to this thread, as did my opponent. It was a crazy luck-driven game. I received one ambassador in hand 3 and one in hand 4, meaning I thinned my deck and they both hit the reshuffle. My opponent's ambassadors collided, and, after that, he couldn't catch up as my deck started cycling faster and faster, and his become more and more gummed up. It was very much a "flip a coin" type game - we both went for the same strategy, and I was the one who got the luck to pull it off.
257
Game Reports / Re: Opponent's deck reduced to 10 cards, permanently pinned
« on: June 21, 2011, 08:10:58 pm »
Nice! I went with the kc-saboteur strategy once, but didn't have the good sense you displayed in also getting victory points. I lost the game 3-2 (it was 3-1, but I bought an estate the last turn when I realized that my saboteuring had emptied 3 piles and I only had 1 VP).
258
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: June 20, 2011, 06:49:42 pm »Fun (simple) Puzzle: How do you get Chuck Norris?
You do not get Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris will join your deck if he deems it worthy of his awesomeness (which, he will never do, because your deck is insufficiently awesome due to its lack of Chuck Norris).
259
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Awesome Mechanics; Meh Flavor
« on: June 20, 2011, 03:37:24 pm »
Thanks Donald! I appreciate the insight, and am glad that my comments weren't taken as an insult. I forgot to mention one other card that I've always liked for the way it marries flavor and function: wishing well. I started out playing it and wishing for what I thought I would get, rather than what I wanted. I found the card to be a chore to play, and hated it because, even if it worked, I got a victory card or copper. I switched to wishing for what I wanted, and now enjoy playing the card even though it's not the most powerful.
Generally, I agree. I think some consistency is helpful (e.g., villages give +actions, holy places trash) because it makes learning new cards easier, but given the speed of play, the mechanics are much more important than the flavor. Most of the cards could be a simpler, Uno-style, with just numbers and simple instructions, but there are some cards driven by flavor that would be lost.
I've seen a few comments from Donald X about a spin-off game - hopefully we'll see something like that, and maybe it will have a different flavor or take on mechanics.
But I agree that the theme/flavor is just gravy. It's really nice when a card's name lines up with its function, but who cares? Dominion isn't like D&D, where the mechanics are just a framework for stories to be experienced. With Dominion it is the mechanics themselves that make it an addicting game. It's important that the names color up the gears and springs and levers of the machine, because otherwise it would be hard for the human mind to relate to it. But it is, ultimately, the process that works and not the world or the characters or the places.
Generally, I agree. I think some consistency is helpful (e.g., villages give +actions, holy places trash) because it makes learning new cards easier, but given the speed of play, the mechanics are much more important than the flavor. Most of the cards could be a simpler, Uno-style, with just numbers and simple instructions, but there are some cards driven by flavor that would be lost.
I've seen a few comments from Donald X about a spin-off game - hopefully we'll see something like that, and maybe it will have a different flavor or take on mechanics.
260
Dominion General Discussion / Dominion: Awesome Mechanics; Meh Flavor
« on: June 19, 2011, 11:12:30 pm »Don't get me wrong - I love playing dominion. It's a great game. But, I've never really grokked the flavor that much, and more or less play it in spite of, rather than because of, the match between the general theme of the game and the cards.
I think this is a problem at the macro and micro level. At the macro level, the fantasy-esque setting is plan, vanilla, and boring. I can see how having a more distinct fantasy feeling might have made been as much a liability as an asset given that it could easily narrow the appeal of the game. But, at the same time, using a fantasy motiff itself seems limiting. Dominion doesn't really bring anything new to its fantasy elements, and they strike me as an afterthought, added in more to appeal to the typical board game players (which, to be fair, is probably the anticipated audience) than strongly incorporated into the mechanics themselves. In particular, I find that the fantasy flavor inhibits teaching the game to non-gamer geeks. Dominion is a game that I have gotten many non-gamer geek friends to play/like, but I always have to convince them that the underlying game and its mechanics justifies them trying a game in a genre that is often overplayed. I wish it had a more abstract and/or non-fantasy flavor that highlighted its clever mechanics.
At the micro level, there are the cards. There are some themes that are obvious/easy to perceive (villages being the obvious...but then there's University and Festival). Here are some cards that I just don't get:
Baron: Nobles is a victory card; Duke is a victory card; why not Baron?
Library: Library lets you set aside action cards, which often leaves you with a handful of victory cards and coins. Why does a library get you those? Shouldn't it get you actions? My guess with this particular card is that it originally did get you only actions, but was probably overpowered in that version.
Chapel: What does trashing cards have to do with chapels? Is there a theme with religious figures/buildings/rooms and trashing (e.g., bishop)? Why?
Those a few off the top of my head, but I know there are others that come up (are all attacks themed as people? What is the mechanical difference between a card representing a person and one representing a building? Why only use verbs on the trash for a new card effects (remodel, upgrade, etc.)
Of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't point to some cards where I think the function and flavor are a terrific match. Forge feels like it is forging together multiple cards into something new. Caravans give the sense of stringing together wagons to bring you resources. Thief is obviously intuitive; moat's defensive ability fits its flavor perfectly, but why does it draw cards?
What do y'all think? Do you like the flavor? Dislike it? Are indifferent to it because the mechanics are so awesome?
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Make up your own card?
« on: June 17, 2011, 05:53:48 pm »While we're on the topic, how does one print these cards? I was thinking of using custom labels and adhering them, but that may make those particular cards heavier. Does anyone have an any experience using their home printer to print directly to the cards?
Someone on BBG shared their experience in a long running gaming group where the winners could create a new card that would be added to the mix. They suggested using a card that's functionally similar to save brain-space/card stock, and having a reference on the board visible to all players. So, if you created, Deadly Carnivorous Village ($4p, +1 card, +2 action, each opponent gains a curse), you'd put familiar on the board in its place.
Actually, that's a pretty stupid example given that DCV and familiar don't have the same cost, but hopefully you get the gist.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What would you like to see in Dominion?
« on: June 17, 2011, 05:46:14 pm »
Interesting. Thanks theory, I appreciate you digging that up for me.
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Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« on: June 17, 2011, 01:35:46 pm »
I play a lot on my ipad, so I use the acronyms because typing on it is a PIA.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What would you like to see in Dominion?
« on: June 17, 2011, 01:26:53 pm »
I agree that playtesting is the only way to really perform an informed analysis about a card being balanced/good. But, as a thought experiment, I don't see anything that's been said about this type of card that isn't already in the game.
People don't like having their cards trashed: Saboteur and swindler exist.
People don't like having their attacks blocked/made worthless: Moat and lighthouse exist.
Kingmaking: Happens frequently in multi-player through the nature of the end-game conditions.
AP: This will be an issue with most cards, but is mitigated by the nature of Dominion's 10 kingdom card structure.
This doesn't seem like the case of the famed +2 Buy card, which would be extremely good in some decks and do nothing in most decks. There seem to be a large number of levers and dials that could be manipulated to make such a card balanced without making it a complete attack neutralizer.
I'd even go so far as to say it should be made as a bad-ish card, ala moat, which is typically avoided by advanced players but embraced by beginners.
I'm curious as to what separates this hypothetical card from the existing trash the opponents cards/absolute no-attack reaction cards/etc. I don't claim to be an expert on game design, but I love reading about it and learning more (I'm a big fan of Mark Rosewater's making magic column even though I haven't played the game much in over a decade). The answer might be as simple as "Donald thinks interaction is good and that Dominion should favor attacks" or "Unlike attack cards, which encourage playing your cards, a defensive card like this would lead to less (inter)-action because it would be such an effective counter to attack cards and mostly just sit in your hand."
People don't like having their cards trashed: Saboteur and swindler exist.
People don't like having their attacks blocked/made worthless: Moat and lighthouse exist.
Kingmaking: Happens frequently in multi-player through the nature of the end-game conditions.
AP: This will be an issue with most cards, but is mitigated by the nature of Dominion's 10 kingdom card structure.
This doesn't seem like the case of the famed +2 Buy card, which would be extremely good in some decks and do nothing in most decks. There seem to be a large number of levers and dials that could be manipulated to make such a card balanced without making it a complete attack neutralizer.
I'd even go so far as to say it should be made as a bad-ish card, ala moat, which is typically avoided by advanced players but embraced by beginners.
I'm curious as to what separates this hypothetical card from the existing trash the opponents cards/absolute no-attack reaction cards/etc. I don't claim to be an expert on game design, but I love reading about it and learning more (I'm a big fan of Mark Rosewater's making magic column even though I haven't played the game much in over a decade). The answer might be as simple as "Donald thinks interaction is good and that Dominion should favor attacks" or "Unlike attack cards, which encourage playing your cards, a defensive card like this would lead to less (inter)-action because it would be such an effective counter to attack cards and mostly just sit in your hand."
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What would you like to see in Dominion?
« on: June 17, 2011, 01:03:54 pm »Out of curiosity, what's the reasoning? It seems no worse than swindler or saboteur, but moves what is an annoying and frustrating ability from offense to defense. Such a card could even be fairly weak and designed to appeal to new players.
I can't find the quote (Google fails me). But the basic idea is it completely makes attack cards worthless. You'd be insane to play a strong attack with such a reaction in place. To be fair, I am pretty sure Richard Garfield (designer of Magic) suggested it to him as well.
I don't know that I agree with that still. If the card was strictly "reveal from hand when attacked, attack is trashed" that'd definitely be too much. But if it had some compensation to the opponent (+$2 would actually be an interesting one given that it's the opponents turn and they can buy something), it seems like it could be viable. Bad players would force opponents to trash attacks, but good players could capitalize on the compensation. And/Or, it could let the attack resolve prior to being trashed. There seems to be a lot of potential design space that would appeal to players who hate attack cards.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What would you like to see in Dominion?
« on: June 17, 2011, 11:40:43 am »Nice. Love the idea of a reaction card that trashes the attack. It should probably self trash or give the opponent some type of bonus as well - otherwise, it's hard to imagine attacks being viable at all if it is on the board.Donald X. has repeatedly stated that he will never create a Reaction like this, and I think he's right in feeling this way.
Out of curiosity, what's the reasoning? It seems no worse than swindler or saboteur, but moves what is an annoying and frustrating ability from offense to defense. Such a card could even be fairly weak and designed to appeal to new players.
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Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« on: June 17, 2011, 11:38:03 am »
The worst thing I saw was a guy using a picture of a naked chick as his icon. I don't mean to be a prude, but I tend to catch a game or two at work when things are slow, and don't really need to have that up on the screen.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Which is the card you hate the most?
« on: June 17, 2011, 11:36:55 am »
My beef with possession is that I like to actually play the game, which I don't get to do when possession is being used. Particularly when there's a KC on the board, but also if there's something as simple as Village to get two off in a single round. I don't understand why outpost has the "no more than two turns" clause, but possession does not. Just adding that line of text would make me hate the card much, much less.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What would you like to see in Dominion?
« on: June 16, 2011, 09:20:24 pm »
Nice. Love the idea of a reaction card that trashes the attack. It should probably self trash or give the opponent some type of bonus as well - otherwise, it's hard to imagine attacks being viable at all if it is on the board.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What would you like to see in Dominion?
« on: June 16, 2011, 08:48:41 pm »
I was chewing on the idea of curse-like debt cards which would interact with buys. They'd be a completely dead card (as opposed to a -1 VP like curse), but you could remove it from your deck by spending $1 and using a buy. A diet curse, if you will.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Is Golem worth it ?
« on: June 16, 2011, 08:24:00 pm »
I love golem, but I constantly screw it up. Not only because of the potion issue, but because I will make bad decisions regarding purchasing/not purchasing other cards because I want to get it (usually with trashing cards). I should just remember to play around it (e.g., if you've got a hand of province-province-province-gold-golem and a trading post in your deck, don't play golem), but instead, I tend to avoid the trashing cards, lose ground and have a harder time hitting $4P.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What would you like to see in Dominion?
« on: June 16, 2011, 08:13:08 pm »
iPad/iPod app.
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Game Reports / Re: Epic Fail game
« on: June 15, 2011, 09:10:39 pm »
My best epic fail was a game with saboteur and king's court. I was irrationally annoyed at my opponent for even playing saboteur, and after getting hit by it 2-3 times, I went insane and bought 3 of them and started kc'ing them. I would hit him with 2-5 per turn. His deck was demolished, and yet I still couldn't be bothered to do something like, ya know, buy green cards or even treasures. On my last turn, I hit him yet again with a kc'd saboteur, he trashed down to some estates and the game ended on piles. I realized I only had one estate in my entire deck and bought another one (I only had $3 in hand).
I lost, 2-3.
I lost, 2-3.