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26

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?

« on: December 27, 2012, 12:04:46 pm »

Thanks!  I wasn't aware of that.  And I do appreciate the irony that by not buying, I contribute to the risk that Goko won't be around for the long haul.  :-)

Having access to Cornucopia may be the last nudge needed to get me over the line between purchasing and not. 

27

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?

« on: December 27, 2012, 11:45:21 am »

I'm probably more on the fence than my posts indicate, but I'm still surprised at my reluctance to pony up $40 for the game I love so much and am trying to understand it myself.  Goko doesn't inspire me, and I don't find it to be significantly better than the free third party Dominion app that only includes the base set.  They aren't adding value to my Dominion experience, and they don't seem focused on implementing the features that I would value.

I imagine I'll probably plunk down the cash eventually, but a year or so ago, I would've bought it without blinking an eye.  I'm not certain what has changed, and am trying to articulate that. 

28

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?

« on: December 27, 2012, 11:11:13 am »

I don't mean to sound cheap - if you asked me in the abstract if I would pay $40 for electronic dominion, I probably would say yes.  But, goko is just so...I think half-assed is the best descriptor I can manage.  It still feels incomplete, and I don't have a lot of faith that they will still be around in twelve months.  It's not as if I'm buying a program that I can use irrespective of their continued existence.  I'm purchasing access to a website, and that access only has value for so long as the website is up.  That value is further reduced by the fact that much of the sets aren't available yet.  If $40 got me access to the whole shebang at the moment of purchase, I would've purchased.  But right now, $40 gets me access to the beta stuff and buys me a promise that I'll have access to the additional sets once they are finished being coded.  I don't know how much stock I put in that promise, and the fact that there's so much left to code just to get all the expansions released leads me to believe that the simple tools for board sculpting and better match-ups are even further away.

Heck, if I could pay $40 and get permanent access to the beta sets, that might even be enough.  But as long as my purchase is locked into a company that hasn't demonstrated a strong grasp of the product they are selling* and could go away at anytime, I have a hard time justifying the purchase at that price. 

Edit:
*For example, they seem to have spent a great deal of time and effort on the horrible looking avatars.  They clearly didn't understand how the game was played when they created that deck tool, and the fact that they wasted time programming something that wasn't relevant to the game and then publicly released it leads me to believe that they are not being careful or thoughtful in how they implement the game.  This is part of why I describe them as being half-assed - so much of the website feels like they handed the game off to a handful of offshore programmers, and then posted what they wrote without reviewing and revising to conform to the actual game they were trying to implement. 

29

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?

« on: December 26, 2012, 01:23:44 pm »

In large part, that decision was because getting $40 worth of owl coins required spending $50 in cash.

It doesn't. You can pay $20 twice, each time getting 230 owl coins, which is enough to buy the full package.

Thank you! 

What can I say, I'm impatient and bad at math.  If something costs $40, I want to just pay $40 and be done with it.  Adding an additional level of purchasing decision, in which I need to figure out what constellation of online currency gets me to $40, annoys me and creates a disincentive to complete the transaction.

Thunderstone has received a stupid number of dollars from me due to the fact that I can purchase cards at an inflated price using the App Store.  (Though partly, that's because I also kept believing the game would become good/fun if only I had a few more cards - so far, this has not been true). 

30

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Issues on my iPad

« on: December 26, 2012, 01:01:37 pm »

I've played a lot of Iso on the iPad, and the pop up image/text is annoying.  I usually click in the chat box, and that solves the problem.  I haven't noticed the issue with Info not updating unless you referesh the page.  I usually play on Safari, but maybe if you download Chrome and give it a whirl, you'll have better results.

BTW, the other significant problem with playing on the iPad is cards that let you re-order your library (for example, your favorite card Scout) don't work correctly, and you can't actually re-order anything.

31

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?

« on: December 26, 2012, 12:51:03 pm »

I've wanted to buy an official Dominion online game for a while now, and since I began playing Dominion over two years ago, I've filled that want with various Dominion-like products, including the iPhone Gundabad game that is a direct rip-off, the rough fan version with only the Base set, and Ascension.  I participated in the beta, and enjoyed it as much as the substitutes I'd been sampling, but I'm not willing to pay the amount being asked for the product being delivered.  Here are my fundamental problems:

1.  Too Expensive:  This is an arbitrary issue - one person's expensive is another's good bargain - but I just can't justify paying so much to play Dominion.  I logged on for the first time in months yesterday, and noted that there's now a bundle that includes all of the coded expansions, the released expansions that have not been implemented online, and Dark Ages for a not completely unreasonable price (~$40, IIRC).  I came close to buying that, but ultimately didn't pull the trigger.  In large part, that decision was because getting $40 worth of owl coins required spending $50 in cash.  I realize there are a lot of virtual markets in which you can't purchase products for cash, and instead need to purchase an intermediate currency (e.g., Xbox live), but if I have to play games with exchange rates, and discounts for purchasing intermediate currency in bulk, I'm more likely to not bother and walk away. 

2.  Inability to Sculpt the Board:  The largest value of Goko to me has been the ability to play single player games.  It's not as competitive as playing against a human, but the computer also doesn't mind if you put the game down for 10 minutes to deal with feuding children.  Sometimes, I want to play with a particlar set to get a feel for it, or a particular handful of cards to test a combo.  For whatever reason, I can't make that choice.  Similarly, I can't even put constraints on the random card selection as is the case in Isotropic.  This is an important feature for me, and not having it makes me less excited about the game generally.

Neither of these is an insurmountable problem, but my current view is that the cost of the product is well in excess of similar products and that it fails to offer an experience of sufficient quality to justify that price.  If Goko had been released a year ago, being a graphics based, official Dominion game might've been sufficient for me to buy it.  But these days, the bar is set higher (particularly when the price charged is so high), and the ability to play a graphics based, official Dominion game, without much else and at a fairly high price, just isn't enough to justify the purchase.  On top of that, the high price plus the lack of a sophisticated ranking/data system as is available in Isotropic means that the player base is thin and significantly diminishes the value of the multiplayer online.

I really want to like Goko, I really want to play Dominion online, but I think I'm going to have to pass for now.  My expectations have moved since I started playing, and a product that I would've embraced a year ago is no longer in the ballpark of what I will purchase.

32

Goko Dominion Online / Re: How do you use the redemption card in Dark Ages?

« on: December 26, 2012, 12:09:42 am »

Sorry have not been following the forum closely, didn't realize that had been announced.  Thanks for the quick answer. 

33

Goko Dominion Online / How do you use the redemption card in Dark Ages?

« on: December 25, 2012, 11:57:55 pm »

Has anyone successfully unlocked the Dark Age expansion using the card that comes in the physical box set?  I entered the code, hit redeem, and nothing happened.  The Dark Ages cards aren't included in new games, and the Adventure mode for Dark Ages sends me to the store.  I can't find the redeem option anymore to try and re-enter the code, and I'm not sure if I just need to go click something to turn the cards on.  Any help would be much appreciated.

34

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Should Silver be included in the next Card Ranking List?

« on: December 04, 2012, 12:15:28 pm »

The strongest argument I can see for including Silver is that it provides something of a baseline for comparing other $3 cards.  It seems particularly useful for new players because Silver provides a frame of reference for discussions about $3 cards and a number of fundamental concepts in Dominion (e.g., opportunity cost). 

35

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Bizarre bot strategies?

« on: October 25, 2012, 06:03:17 pm »

Someone mentioned this in another thread, and I tried it last night to great amusement: using Masquerade to give a bot Rats.  The bot has no idea what to do with Rats, and just plays it because it's a cantrip.  Within a few turns, the bot will have a deck of all Rats and the one Copper it can buy each turn.

36

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Experiments in formulaic card design

« on: October 24, 2012, 09:17:31 pm »

Kirian, I don't think your downgraded Festival is right.

It looks odd, but I think the logic is that Festival isn't a $5 cantrip, so to de-cantrip it, you need to discard a card and lose an action.  Then you double everything - the one action goes back to 2, the discard goes up to 2, and the other bonuses are doubled. 

37

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Wandering minstrel - A trap ?

« on: October 18, 2012, 10:46:35 am »

I really like WM, but it's definitely an engine card that needs +$ actions or lots of draw. 

38

Dominion Articles / Re: Hard counters vs. soft counters

« on: October 17, 2012, 06:15:56 pm »

Heh.  Who'd'a thunk this would turn into a semantics debate?

My usage of hard and soft counters is similar, but not identical, to that set forth in the OP - a hard counter completely stops the attack (Moat, Lighthouse, Horse Traders in the case of Minion or other attacks that require more than 4 cards); a soft counter mitigates an attack (Tunnel or Menagerie v. discard attacks).

As usual, Magic is my reference point for the concept.  A hard counter (or a hard lock) in Magic is one that counters the opponent's spell (or prevents them from taking any meaningful action).  A soft counter (or a soft lock) is inherently conditional - e.g., counter the opponent's spell if they can't pay extra, or, in the case of a soft lock, the ability to force an opponent to discard every turn on your own turn.

I'm not claiming these are the correct definitions.  I just like to toss a hat into a semantics debate from time to time.

39

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The value of a terminal Gold

« on: October 05, 2012, 04:13:06 pm »

Don't forget that Dark Ages gave us one more data point.  Count can produce +$3 (though it's hard to weigh given that it comes with an additional drawback (discard 2, gain copper, put a card on top of deck) and an additional benefit in the form of optionality). 

40

Dominion General Discussion / Re: An Attempt at Theme Discussion

« on: September 25, 2012, 04:13:04 pm »

*shrug*  I pointed out several instances where Magic attempts to ground its mechanics in its art/concepts.  There's a lot of work done to have the mechanics match the art, the set, the themes of the block, etc.  Maybe we're talking about two different things.

41

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: How much would this cost?

« on: September 25, 2012, 02:35:07 pm »

I agree with the consensus that $5-6 is the right starting point, but I'd flag this card for lots and lots of playtesting.  There are only a handful of cards in this space (e.g., Scheme, Scavenger, Sage, Golem (kinda), and Band of Misfits), and the fact that none of them are the simplest and cleanest version of searching for a card makes me wonder if the ability is too potent/swingy. 

42

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Post "Bad Cards" mentality

« on: September 25, 2012, 12:28:47 pm »

I had the same reaction to Oracle as well, and have only recently come around to it. 

These days, I'm prone to the opposite problem.  I've been in the bad habit lately of taking second/third tier cards (woodcutter, scout, etc) over a Silver in my opening, which is just plain wrong 99% of the time, because I manage to convince myself that they are good in that board despite being generally sub-par.  Dark Ages has also sent me into an engine frenzy, and I keep trying to make decks without purchasing treasures, which is often not the correct choice.

43

Dominion General Discussion / Re: An Attempt at Theme Discussion

« on: September 25, 2012, 12:06:33 pm »

Dominion's poor theme implementation is my favorite complaint about the game (right up there with Copper, Silver, and Gold all being the same color).  At the end of the day, I don't think I'm alone in saying that it kicks so much ass as a game that I can live without a deep theme embedded in the game. 

Part of the reason I'm so aware of the poor theme in Dominion is because Magic does it so damn well.  Particularly in the case of modern magic cards, the art typically contains a visual clue or theme to convey mechanics.  For example, creatures with first strike (the ability to damage before the opponent's creature) are usually portrayed with lances/other long weapons.  Other more abstract concepts are also consistently grounded in fantasy tropes (e.g., discarding attacks are portrayed as attacking the mind of the other player to remove their spells).  However, given that Magic is several magnitudes older, larger, better staffed, and well-funded, I can't fault Dominion for not living up to its standards.

Assuming that Dominion doesn't lend itself to a stronger theme, I wish it would go the other direction and place a greater emphasis on using card names as stronger signals.  As has already been mentioned above, Village is a good example of a card name which sends a strong signal as to function due to its consistent use.  In my ideal Dominion universe, all +2 action cards would follow the same naming convention.  "Trading" or "Trader" would indicate a card that gives you a Silver. And, for the love of all that's holy, Library would not be a card that is really good at drawing a lot of coins.

44

General Discussion / Re: Anti-Joke Thread

« on: September 11, 2012, 03:22:19 pm »

He's got a number of recurring strips (some of which are political), but Tom the Dancing Bug's Super-Fun-Pak Comix are loaded with this type of humor.

http://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2012/07/20

45

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card

« on: August 16, 2012, 07:17:01 pm »

Sometimes I forget how pedantic this place can get.
 
Okay, work with me and let's see if we can identify the salient points of the analogy.

The public launch of goko is like the launch of 4e in that they both were announced at GenCon, both directed people to a website and both caused the website to crash.  The public launch of goko differs from the launch of 4e in many material ways, including the fact that they happened in different years, were done by different companies, were different products, and are completely different games.

The public launch of goko is like the launch of an MMO in that they are both software products, subject to heavy traffic at launch, which can cause delays or failures in using the product.   The public launch of goko differs from the launch of an MMO in many material ways, including the fact that MMOs are typically of a much larger scale and have much more complex code.

Nonetheless, I would submit that the salient feature of goko for purposes of the prior posts (it doesn't work) is similar to the salient feature of the WotC website at the 4e announcement (it didn't work) and MMOs at launch (they often don't work), likely due to either (a) unexpectedly high demand for the product or (b) poor preparation for regular demand.  Given that Dominion has helped spawn/inspire an entire sub-segment of games, that there are multiple Dominion clone apps available on various platforms that seem to be doing fairly well, the launch was announced at one of the largest concentrations of their customers on the planet, and that many of us have waited for baited breath for an official version (no disrespect to Iso intended), I suspect that goko is a victim of Dominion's own success.

Edit: Great, and now blueblimp has to go and post something that disproves my snotty post.  Maybe I should listen next time the forum says "someone posted something that makes you sound like an idiot, are you sure you don't want to read it before hitting submit."

46

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card

« on: August 16, 2012, 06:35:47 pm »

Sounds like they took a page from WotC's playbook.  Before the official announcement of 4e, the WotC webpage was replaced with a timer, which counted down to a massive failure as the website crashed from the traffic and couldn't be brought back up for 3-4 days. 

The difference being that with 4e, at least you could buy physical copies of the books.  WOTC's web presence wasn't the core of their business.  Goko's... is.

I hear ya.  I just couldn't help but laugh.  I suppose this is probably more analogous to the launch of an MMO.  I think Diablo II had similar issues as well. 

47

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card

« on: August 16, 2012, 06:17:16 pm »

Sounds like they took a page from WotC's playbook.  Before the official announcement of 4e, the WotC webpage was replaced with a timer, which counted down to a massive failure as the website crashed from the traffic and couldn't be brought back up for 3-4 days. 

48

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Best knight?

« on: August 16, 2012, 05:09:01 pm »

Or Bounty Knight?

Maybe it's just me, but that makes me think of the paper towels...

49

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Best knight?

« on: August 16, 2012, 05:03:48 pm »

Dame Anna (trash up to 2 from hand) = Dame Trash
Dame Josephine (worth 2 VP) = Dame VP
Dame Molly (+2 Actions) = Dame Village
Dame Natalie (gain a card up to $3) = Dame Workshop
Dame Sylvia (+$2) = Dame Silver
Sir Bailey (+1 Card, +1 Action) = Sir Cantrip
Sir Destry (+2 Cards) = Sir Cards (Sir Moat?)
Sir Martin (+2 Buys) = Sir Buy
Sir Michael = Sir Militia
Sir Vander (on trash, gain Gold) = Sir Gold?

50

Game Reports / Re: A lesson in watching your piles.

« on: August 14, 2012, 07:17:17 pm »

Yeah, it's fast, and I've always done it as sort of a victory moment for myself.

Hopefully people don't consider this kind of thing rude...

But no reason other than that you can.

I don't think it's rude, I was just curious.  It looked like you didn't realize the game was ending and loading up on coppers to increase your purchasing power, which wasn't consistent with the original description of the game.  I haven't seen anyone do that other than in a Goons game.

It's probably also that I've been playing a lot of the official Dominion game lately, and extra buys in that make me cringe due to the slow animation.