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Messages - Ingix

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Rules Questions / Re: Inheritance + Garrison
« on: October 01, 2022, 01:05:02 pm »
In the case of things like Experiment and Encampment, Inheritance and Prince both say "leaving it there" so that takes care of them not moving themselves; no need to invoke a notion of them not "finding themselves" from not being in play.

In my opinion that is wrong. If you play a Workshop using Overlord, it can gain itself (and move to your discard pile). If you play a Graverobber or Rogue using Necromancer from the trash pile, it can also gain itself (and move).

"Leaving it there" takes care of exactly one thing: The card doesn't move into play. Everything else is a consequence of a card not finding itself.

Rules Questions / Re: Inheritance + Garrison
« on: September 30, 2022, 12:45:04 pm »
I looked up some discussion with Donald X. where I asked about the Band of Misfit/Overlords situation, and the response mentioned specifically being out of play as the main reason, and the card not "finding" itself to put tokens on, as an extension to cards not moving themselves under similar circumstances (say an inherited Experiment).

While the practially would not be a problem for an inherited Garrison, not allowing it keeps it consistent from a rules perspective.

Rules Questions / Re: Inheritance + Garrison
« on: September 30, 2022, 12:09:44 pm »
I agree the problem is less for Inheritance, as it's only for one player. Still you could end up with tokens from different turns on it, if you can play things at start of turn.

Seems reasonable to not disallow it for practicallity.

Rules Questions / Re: Inheritance + Garrison
« on: September 30, 2022, 03:57:30 am »
I think the key phrase is in the ruling, it is not in play in either situation. You put the tokens on the card for tracking purposes, and since they are the usual tokens also used for Coffers, Villagers and the Trade Route mat (may it rest in peace), having them "float around the playing area" could be confusing.

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Tax + Summon
« on: September 15, 2022, 03:23:16 am »
I assume you are talking about game 107946359. In it you bought Summon 3 times, twice for Island that had no debt on them at that time, and once for Militia with 1 debt counter. But you had exactly $5 at this pont, so you had nothing left to pay back the debt this turn.

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: How to optimize player level?
« on: September 01, 2022, 12:31:16 pm »
Yes, I think it should be clear that when you are confronted with many new cards, figuring them out will take time. If you mostly only know the base cards, that's currently less than 10% of cards. Good luck and most importantly, have fun!

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: How to optimize player level?
« on: September 01, 2022, 01:51:43 am »
The system is simple at heart: If you tie against a player with the same strength, you both stay at your strength. If you win a against a much stronger player, you win more points than if you win against a stronger player, which still gives you more points than if you win against a weaker player a.s.o. The same goes for loosing: you lose less points vs. a stronger player than vs. a weaker player.

To improve your rating, you simply need to win > 50% of your games against (at that time) same level players. Of course, likely 40% against slightly stronger players will also work, as 60% vs. slightly weaker.

The point is, if your rating is not consistently going up after let's say a bunch of 20 games against random players say at +-5 around your current strength, than you are most likly not that much stronger than your level indicates.

This is not a slight against you, but most not top ranked players think they are better than what their level indicates, that includes myself. They only want to play against better players because when they "inevitably win", they go up faster than if they "only win" vs. weaker players. If you are a good player and start, that will work, becasue you are better than the starting level. But at some point you reach a plateau, and that is likely what your current strenght really is.

So I wouldn't try to have a strategy to "game the system". Play against player that are around your current strength, and then you should rise if you are better then them.

Rules Questions / Re: Inn and Patron
« on: August 20, 2022, 04:49:09 am »
Even if you reveal Patron, it is your Buy phase, so no Coffers.

Which is from a change to Patron a few month ago (to prevent an infinite loop with Gamble since you can no spend Coffers "any time" during your buy phase)

Rules Questions / Re: Sailor/Blockade
« on: August 01, 2022, 04:14:14 am »
The way I see it, Blockade's duration effect is conditional, if you don't set aside a card on it, no duration effect activates.

But that isn't the case here, you did set aside a card with it Blockade. It just didn't stay there for long. Which is different from Gear and not setting any cards aside to begin with.

I think it simply has to be acknowledged that, like many other rules, the rules what Duration cards know about themselves were formed at a time when there were much wider gaps between what "clearly would work" and what "clearly wouldn't work". Situations like with Conjurer, where the next turn effect explicitely depends on the card to be in play to have a meaningful effect just didn't exist then. So intuitons about how Band of Misfits/Conjurer should work out are different.

A Conjurer played normally always stays in play unless it is removed by some external effect (which get fewer and fewer). To me that means a Band of Mistfit playing Conjurer should also stay in play for a turn, even though it is known that the next turn effect will fail.

Rules Questions / Re: Scheme / Highwayman
« on: July 22, 2022, 01:58:25 pm »
I'd say that for it to apply again, the card needs to move from top of the deck into play (maybe via intermediate steps), which causes the Scheme to loose track. So if you played Scheme only once, then it can't topdeck the same Highwayman again, because it doesn't know it's the same Highwayman.

Rules Questions / Re: Scheme / Highwayman
« on: July 21, 2022, 04:26:04 pm »
I don't see why this shouldn't work. Scheme does not mention anything about only working in Clean-Up

Rules Questions / Re: Weaver
« on: July 03, 2022, 06:34:48 am »
The question opened with:

> The Wiki says: “When discarding multiple Weavers,

This is about discarding multiple Weavers at once, at the same time. They all go to your discard at the same time, then you handle their Reactions one after the other.

That's how "discard your hand" or "discard down to 3 cards in hand" are supposed to happen (this will be in the Hinterlands rulebook and was a question of debate for some time).

Rules Questions / Re: Weaver
« on: July 03, 2022, 03:32:26 am »
When you discard a Weaver it goes to your discard pile. If you then play it via its triggered ability, you get it out of your discard pile and put it into play, then do it's effect.

Some time ago a rule was changed, that now says that in order for a card to be played, it needs to be where the effect that plays it expects it to be (with some exceptions that aren't relevant here).  The Weaver's Reaction expects it to be in the discard pile. If the discard pile was shuffled in the mean time, the Weaver left the discard pile, so the rule kicks in an prevents you from playing that Weaver.

In practical terms, the card is really "lost", it's at an unknown location inside your deck now.

Right, the previous "Silver" and "Gold" subscriptions have been replaced by "Core" and "Complete" subscriptions when Allies was released on You can find the details on the Shuffle iT forum, but JW already explained the main part.

Players wanting to familiarize themselves with cards can now choose to play with only cards of a certain maximal level (1-10), ranging from easy to complex. This means the amount of new cards when one "goes up one level" is much smaller than before, where you had only 3 options: base only (level 1 now), Silver subsctiption, or Gold subscription (all cards, level 10 now).

The old Silver subscription was honored for players that had it, so you didn't see any cards removed until you bought the new Core subscription.

If anything is unclear, feel free to ask!

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Bot stops after playing Weaver
« on: June 30, 2022, 07:35:31 am »
Yes, not yet fixed though.  :(

Rules Questions / Re: Treasury and Cavalry
« on: June 30, 2022, 07:31:54 am »
Sounds legit.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« on: June 30, 2022, 07:25:42 am »
-Mission: Clarifies that you can still buy Events.

So "Projects" was forgotten then. Hinterlands has neither after all.

The obvious: Mission is from Adventures, which has Events, but no Projects.

Those errata are simply what the next printing of the card will say (as currently planned). Putting the reminder on Mission is supposed to help with the kinds of cards a player is guaranteed to have around. If they also have Renaissance, they will most likely make the leap to see that those can be bought as well.

That this errata was published now, at the end of Hinterlands 2E preview, has more to do with the fact the digital changes are easier to make and more importantly easier to distribute. Instead of waiting for each set to be reprinted with a few cards changing and chaning it online then, the changes were combined to a big one.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: lurker + knights is confusing huh
« on: June 29, 2022, 02:18:01 am »
Can you say in more detail what happened? Trashing Sir Vander from the Supply with Lurker should give you exactly 1 Gold (which is suprising for many), but not 4. Of course, if you repeately played Sir Vander and it got trashed in a Knight's fight (and then resurrected by Lurker), each time you also get a Gold.

Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons
« on: June 07, 2022, 10:55:14 am »
For all of this to work as intended, one cannot argue that Star Chart replaces one shuffle with a new, different shuffle. Because if that was the case, you could apply Star Chart again to the new shuffle, and recusively not just topdeck one card, but order the complete deck. While that argument cannot be applied to the Orders alone, I wouldn't want those two to create new shuffles, as this would again allow Star Chart to be applicable to the new shuffle. While this does not really seem to break the game, it seems not good to have those similar effects work in a different way.

Trying to understand this. Why do you say that you could apply Star Chart again to the new shuffle but you couldn't apply the Orders again?
EDIT: Ah, I think it's not that you couldn't, it's just that it wouldn't make a difference because you have to spend Favors.

Yes, or more specifically that applying an Order again to the hypothetically created "new shuffle" does not do anything you couldn't have done "the first time". If you spend 2 Favors once, to put 4 cards into the discard pile, you get the same as when you spend a Favor to put 2 cards into it and then spend another Favor to put 2 more cards into it. I hope that makes sense :)

Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons
« on: June 07, 2022, 04:50:12 am »
Slight rant and trying to understand how this works, but in the end I think I agree with Jeebus now. :)

The -1 card token and Enchatress/Ways replace a thing with something else. That is relatively clean, because now you have something else, the previous thing that was about to happen no longer happens, so other things that would apply to it or try to replace it no longer "work".

Star Chart and Astrologer/Masons do not do this clean replacement IMO, because if they did, you couldn't use both Star Chart and one of those 2 Allies on the same shuffle. This is a modifying effect, the "shuffle" isn't replaced with something else, it is modified. For Star Chart, you first select a card and put it somewhere, then do the randomization of the remaining cards (the "shuffle"), then put the selected card on top. But, you can also apply another modifying effect to the randomization, like an Ally. Or you do it in the reverse order, first the Ally, then Star Chart.

For all of this to work as intended, one cannot argue that Star Chart replaces one shuffle with a new, different shuffle. Because if that was the case, you could apply Star Chart again to the new shuffle, and recusively not just topdeck one card, but order the complete deck. While that argument cannot be applied to the Orders alone, I wouldn't want those two to create new shuffles, as this would again allow Star Chart to be applicable to the new shuffle. While this does not really seem to break the game, it seems not good to have those similar effects work in a different way.

All of this means to me, that Star Chart and the 2 Orders are modifying effects, which do not completely replace a shuffle with something else, but they modify the shuffle, and other modifying effects can still apply to modified shuffle.

The question is now what should "shuffle" on Emmissary mean? Does it apply to the first "shuffle" it created, or to any modified versions in between, or only to the "final" one? Originally I argued it should apply to the first one it created, but I see that making it "see" the final one only makes sense as well. If that "shuffle" involved 0 cards due to Order of Masons, then it doesn't give the bonus.

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Merchant Guild error
« on: June 06, 2022, 03:06:58 am »
Yes, the change that going back to your Action phase is triggering "end of buy phase" effects is relatively recent, and not yet implemented.

Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons
« on: June 04, 2022, 02:57:16 pm »
We don't have to decide what kind of randomization or not randomization constitutes "shuffling", because Emissary already has the answer. It's whether it involved at least one card. So when you're told to shuffle, if you move at least one card from your discard pile to your deck, you "shuffled" those cards (or that card).

I disagree. When you play Emissary, you look if you need to shuffle. Then you look if you have at least 1 card in the discard pile. If yes, you shuffle, and Emissary is satisfied and will give the bonus. How many cards end up anwhere is totally irrelevant to that. If you took the card and made it go to (or rather stay) in the discard pile (with Order of Masons), you shuffled that one card.

To me that idea that you only look at the the "usual" shuffling (what I call randomization) to determine if Emissary gives the bonus is very alien. It would mean that shuffling means something else on Emissary and Order of Masons.

Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons
« on: June 04, 2022, 11:48:54 am »
The question is what it actually means to "shuffle". With Order of Masons, Astrologers and Star Chart, that has potentially becoming quite different from a simple randomization.

To me it makes no sense to say that Order of Masons applies, but that you then didn't shuffle for the purpose of Emissary.

Order of Masons and the other are in my opinion replacement effects, that modify what you do when you shuffle. That you need to shuffle is decided at some point, and whatever is then done is the "shuffle". In an extreme case, it may not involve any randomiization of cards, but is still a shuffle for the game.

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Finding a table
« on: June 03, 2022, 12:16:35 pm »
Posting a screenshot of the matching tab might help. If you are new to this, you might inadvertantly have changed some values trying to find a better match, but in reality made it worse! Here is mine, maybe you can already see something that is way off for you:

Generally, rated games are more thought after (but I rarely play using automatch).

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 01, 2022, 04:37:08 am »
It also removes the interaction with Trader where you could play Hoard, buy Estate and reveal Trader, to gain Silver and a Gold, which was maybe not the strongest thing ever but quite a fun little interaction.

That isn't changed, it still works. Note that Trader changed, so you now do gain the bought Estate (triggering Hoard and Trader), so you gain a Gold and can exchange the Estate for a Silver, in either order.

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