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Messages - -Stef-

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26
Introductions / Re: Hello Forum
« on: December 27, 2017, 02:33:04 pm »
Adriaan was one of the three people in my first two Dominion games.

At some time after that a store in the North of our country sold Dominion: Intrigue and I bought it.
The question we both had was: what would it be, a Dominion expansion?
It turned out those had more cards. It was great.

27
double signup: Philip & Stef
(Netherlands)

28
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: site down?
« on: December 20, 2017, 03:18:41 am »
And down again? I'm getting infinite 'Reconnecting'...

No it isn't / wasn't down.

29
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Undo Trolling
« on: December 08, 2017, 12:07:12 pm »
A few days ago someone asked me for an undo after playing Stables. I granted it before I started thinking because that's usually what I do with an undo request.
Then my opponent played Throne Room - Stables; he didn't draw an action the first time.

Was I sad? yes.
Do I want the software to solve this problem? no, not really.

30
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« on: December 02, 2017, 09:38:28 am »
...fixed this year.

it's fixed on dev now so it will be in the next release (late next week?)

At the end of the game you get a "question" a la an undo request that says "The game has ended".
Your only option is to click "ok" (or scroll the log, chat). Then you move on to the next screen.

31
Rules Questions / Re: Trashing several cards with Monestary
« on: December 01, 2017, 07:38:47 am »
These are definitely edge cases, but it is possible:

You have two Catacombs in hand, no other cards in hand, and no cards in your deck and discard pile.
Blessed Village is in the Supply, and the top boon is The Wind's Gift.
If you trash the Catacombs one at a time, and gain a Blessed Village off the first, then The Wind's Gift will make you discard the second Catacombs, so you can't trash it.
If you trash both Catacombs at once, however, you can trash both at once.

Another way to get the same issue:
Cursed Village is in the Supply with your -2 Cost token on it. You have 4 Provinces in hand in addition to the two Catacombs, and Fear is the top Hex. (Or Haunting with 3 Provinces in hand - if you've trashed both Catacombs you don't have to topdeck a card, if you've only trashed one then you do).

These also work with Inherited Blessed/Cursed Villages and trashing Hunting Grounds.

yes you're right catacombs is a problem card.

So I should just trash them one at the time, and can still let you select them all?
The strange thing would be that the interface would look identical for chapel & monastery, while one trashes all at once and the other does not.

32
Rules Questions / Re: Trashing several cards with Monestary
« on: December 01, 2017, 05:21:48 am »
That actually sounds like a pain from an user interface standpoint. You either confirm each trash individually, or, if you have the option set to not ask for confirmation on single trash/discards, you can't undo a step without requesting an undo.
Stef's tentative plan (I told him about the bug when Jeebus originally asked the question) is to let you trash up to N cards, and if you trash fewer than N and something triggered, you get to go again (for up to the remaining number obv.).

It's still my tentative plan, but it also has me a little worried.

The reason to do it would be a much nicer interface - obviously it's nicer if you want to trash 5 coppers that you can trash them all at once.
(especially if you have the "confirm single trashes" on)

The reason not to do it could be that it breaks the rules of the game. It allows you to trash multiple cards at once where in the actual game you can not (with this card).

As far as I know, there isn't any card that makes this difference relevant. A hypothetical effect that would make it matter is something like
"When you trash this, discard your hand". Suppose you'd have two of those in hand - the actual game wouldn't allow you to trash both but if I implement this trick online you can.

Am I missing something? Is there an actual card that makes this not work?

33
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« on: November 30, 2017, 01:26:34 pm »
Yes, there's an "issue" with your ability to see it, in that you can't see it. Obviously I didn't mean that the last part of the game is not occurring. It's missing from your experience as a player. Yes, that's "cosmetic", just like it would be "cosmetic" if the entire screen were black but the game was still going on underneath.

In my opinion, all the bugs and interface problems that exist in the implementation (and there are a lot considering that it's been live for almost a year) are less serious than this. If Smithy drew 2 instead of 3 cards, it would be more serious. But all cards work correctly in most circumstances. They fail with certain interactions. I don't really know how often these bugs break a game; it's certainly serious when they do. But not getting to experience the last part of the game is a potential problem in every game. Even if the result of the game is correct, the effect is that you were not allowed to be present during the whole game.

I agree with you that this is very important. But you somehow make it sound like the end of the world. I don't think that's very true either.
When I play myself I get annoyed by it in ~10% of my games. The majority of games just end on buying that last province / card of the 3-pile, and no tricks after that.

But I will promise to get it fixed this year.

34
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« on: November 25, 2017, 08:31:07 am »
Hmmm I was thinking about something very complex, but then I stumbled upon something simple that just works with the current rules?

You play Necromancer into Treasure Hunter and gain 2000 silvers.

why 2000, you ask?
Only actions from Nocturne allowed.

Also you can't play Necromancer into anything because that's two cards.

Hmm, ok. It's one card but it is two plays yes.
So here is without breaking that rule:

[hand: 3x cultist, catacombs, copper]

play fool
  discard copper
  gain cemetery(1)

trash 3x cultist, catacombs
  draw 7x cultist, 2x catacombs
  gain cemetery(2)

[hand: 7x cultist, 2x catacombs]

trash 3x cultist, catacombs
  draw 7x catacombs, 2x feodum
  gain cemetery(3)

[hand: 4x cultist, 8x catacombs, 2x feodum]

trash 3x cultist, catacombs
  draw 6x feodum, 3x squire
  gain cemetery(4)

[hand: 1x cultist, 7x catacombs, 8x feodum, 3x squire]

trash 1x cultist, 3x catacombs
  draw hunting grounds, watchtower, trader
  gain 3x cemetery(5, 6, 7)

[hand: 4x catacombs, 8x feodum, 1x squire, Trader]

12 trashes + 3 (trash catacombs -> cemetery(8 )) = 15 trashes

trash 3 catacombs (death cart, 3 each), 8 feodum (3 each) and 3 squires (skulk, 2 each)

this is 32.

Now we get to trash the hunting grounds and with the fore mentioned inheritance-ferry trick we can gain 2 more for every estate.

I think we're at 48 now?

oh and you can exchange the cemeteries for free so 56.
And then we still get to resolve the other two boons from the fool. Probably can get a few more there.

35
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« on: November 24, 2017, 07:16:19 pm »
Hmmm I was thinking about something very complex, but then I stumbled upon something simple that just works with the current rules?

You play Necromancer into Treasure Hunter and gain 2000 silvers.

why 2000, you ask?

36
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Empty the Changeling pile with one Action
« on: November 24, 2017, 06:50:23 pm »
this could go a lot higher.

37
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Undo Trolling
« on: November 23, 2017, 12:20:10 pm »
If no-info undos were automatically allowed, wouldn't some people just test-run multiple buy-phases instead of doing the maths in advance? I don't think I've ever denied an undo, but that would annoy me.

I agree that would be awful if it happened, but I'm not convinced there would be more Undoing than there is now.

My gut reaction was the same as yours, but after giving it some thought - this would take less time than waiting for them to think it all out...

I don't intend to make the client automatically accept all no-information undos. I can see a lot of merit in doing this for the last click, and then code some specific situations where you can go back more then 1 click without permission. But if they would all be automatically granted...

I quite often realize I made some mistake a few actions back. I missed some optimization and well I just accept I decreased my own odds. But sometimes in dominion a lot can happen without new any new info. Especially if you're heavily overdrawing your deck, there is just no new info to gain in the entire last part of your turn. It would feel almost like cheating if I use undo to go back & forth through that, and I would be seriously annoyed if my opponent did that. But if the game auto-grants the undo's, it's also strange to accept playing sub-optimally in a competitive game and just go on. I don't want to put people in that dilemma.

38
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« on: November 17, 2017, 07:22:22 am »
Thanks to majiponi, assemble me & lalight for making the translations

You are welcome!

Sorry I forgot to mention you. I know you helped a lot with Russian and many of the playtesters helped with the German translations too.

40
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Nocturne has been released, go buy it!
« on: November 16, 2017, 12:11:38 pm »
thanks for posting here Dan and sorry I forgot about it myself.

Nocturne is out! I'm really happy we made it on the actual release day.
 Thanks to majiponi, assemble me & lalight for making the translations and keeping up with all the late changes so we can go live in all 4 languages.
 Thanks to all the playtesters for finding so many bugs and verifying all the fixes.
 And thanks for all the suggestions on the implementation to both.

Finally autoplays are here, which I've already grown attached to myself in the last week of playtesting with them.

41
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: future plans
« on: November 16, 2017, 06:14:58 am »
I've got a game model question - are there any plans for storing which piles/zones started with any given cards, for pairing split piles, knights, black market, etc?

I currently don't (and thus also your UI currently doesn't) have a way to link split piles together once emptied, or hide the contents of certain piles (BM) without accidentally revealing deck contents.

Updating the card model to contain either a starting zone or something similar would solve this issue.

Yes for sure. We intend to completely rewrite the game model in the client.

In the gameserver I have a concept of "pile name" associated with cards, and we'll also add that to the client model.
For almost all cards the pile name is just the same as the card name, but there are a few exceptions (bottom half of split piles, ruins, knights, ...)

42
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: future plans
« on: November 14, 2017, 08:01:51 pm »
I upvoted everyone who said anything remotely related to the content of the opening post.
But I hope it does more if I make it explicit? Please if you considered actually responding to it, do so.

Oh and I upvoted Seprix. He made a picture that was funny. You have to upvote those, it's the law on f.ds

43
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: AI’s whims
« on: November 13, 2017, 02:22:56 pm »
the pledge
Turn 7 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Butcher.
L trashes a Copper.
L gains a Stonemason.

the turn
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.

the prestige
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.
L gains 2 Curses.

44
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: future plans
« on: November 12, 2017, 10:39:38 am »
ok ok I'll admit it. I just cross-posted in an obvious attempt to harvest some respect on f.ds

I remember thinking about respect/effort ratio and how posting memes was the best and organizing the league the worst thing I could do.
I was so wrong, writing your own dominion implementation is far worse.
Dude, 29 upvotes so far just for saying that I asked you to ban Possession. They'll upvote online Dominion, you just have to spin it right.

Yes yes, we're spinning it right here.
Let's make some more posts for people to upvote.
Or do you think people have standards and the posts actually need to contain information?

45
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: future plans
« on: November 12, 2017, 10:21:51 am »
ok ok I'll admit it. I just cross-posted in an obvious attempt to harvest some respect on f.ds

I remember thinking about respect/effort ratio and how posting memes was the best and organizing the league the worst thing I could do.
I was so wrong, writing your own dominion implementation is far worse.

46
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / future plans
« on: November 12, 2017, 10:00:52 am »
Quote from: Stef
I know there has been a lack of communication here, Nocturne has been pretty overwhelming.
I still don't have much time, but a bit of reflection never hurts.

We squeezed in some features with Nocturne that will help the general client.
- duration attacks are now visible, and enchantress has the pig
- your starting cards are shown at the start of the game
- revised kingdom layout in the client

Thursdays release will have Nocturne fully implemented, but also:
- autoplay (finally)
- improved undo vs bots

After Nocturne goes live, we will continue with...
- rewriting the client. The goal here is
  - clear domain model & readable/maintainable code
  - full control over zones displayed; always find a spot for all zones with cards in them on the screen
  - full control over animations; enable users to animate all cardmoves and do something special for moves that change ownership
  - visualize the ordering of abilities
  - if all of the above succeeded, we can by default turn the log off.

- refactor the gameserver. Currently my gameserver has a problem. It's about states & asynchronous programming.
I use constructs like these:
Code: [Select]
    public void onPlay(Context context, Player player, PlayCardAbility playCardAbility, Handler<Void> handler) {
        player.addBuys(1);
        List<Card> estates = player.getHand().getCards(c -> c.getName() == CardObjectName.ESTATE);
        context.ask(new WhatCardToDiscardOptional(getCardObjectAssociation(), storyOf(QuestionId.BARON), estates), discardMe -> {
            if (discardMe.isPresent()) {
                player.discardFromHand (context, discardMe.get(), getCardObjectAssociation(), discarded -> {
                    player.addCoins(context, 4);
                    handler.handle(null);
                });
            } else {
                player.gain(context, getCardObjectAssociation(), CardObjectName.ESTATE, gained -> handler.handle(null));
            }
        });
    }
This works fine, but I'm not in love with using handlers this way, and it's no longer sufficient. Suppose you have played the baron, and there aren't any Estates left in the supply. Now you could decide not to discard an Estate. After you decided that, the gamestate changed, even though there wasn't a single card that moved or counter that got updated.

Also you see a difference in how I add buys and coins. Adding coins could have some side-effect which needs logging (the -1 coin token) and buys can not. I don't like that it makes that distinction; in the new situation I want to have a more general idea of moving from one state to the next, even after something as insignificant as adding a buy.

The big problem here is that I can't fully reflect on the state I'm in. This baron is only moving forward.

In the new situation, I want to add the concept of a "stage" I'm in while executing the Baron, and let every stage create some kind of Mutation I apply to the gamestate to move to the next stage. This Mutation will also have a function to undo itself, and needs to hold enough information to perform that undo.

Off course baron is one of the easiest cards here. It gets significantly trickier with cards that target other cards (throne room), could lose track of things or interact with your opponents. It will be quite an undertaking to apply these changes to all cards.

But the reward should be significant: then I can move forth and back through a game. This will allow the gameserver to support a much more powerful "delayed decisions" like we have on mining village now. But most importantly it will allow me to start working on a real AI.

I want to be able to synchronize both those gamestates and the Mutations. This should allow for a much more powerful logging system, allow you to save/load games, and most importantly: create a script that has direct instructions for the gameserver.

I want that to develop into a scripting language that allows the creation of campaigns and tutorials.

I would like to give more attention to compatibility with Android and iPad devices.

Oh and I want to hammer down the known card bugs; at least all the ones that aren't interface related.

just wanted to post it here too because it's more likely to get response here.

47
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Asking for Undo
« on: November 10, 2017, 12:21:28 pm »
That doesnt comply with that one game where i played militia and ended my turn seeing a hand with Hermit 3C 1 Estate.

My Opponent then asked if he could undo and discard other card to millitia wich i granted. My new Hand was then Hermit and 4 Coppers.

My guess is something else was different too, probably something you thought of as unimportant.
I could even be the order you played your treasures in. They would be cleaned up in a different order, and your shuffling would start differently.

48
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Asking for Undo
« on: November 10, 2017, 04:17:32 am »
Kinda off topic -- more of a question about undo implementation -- but...

If I (1) do something that causes a shuffle, then (2) undo to before the shuffle, then (3) cause the shuffle to happen again, does the second shuffle shuffle the cards the same way as the first? And if so, what things that I do between (2) and (3) changes it? E.g. I imagine gaining a card completely changes the shuffle (but not sure), whereas taking a coin token or whatever would not affect it.

The game (currently) uses 1 random number generator instance. It's not used a lot in dominion; mostly for shuffling.

Suppose you buy a Silver, end your turn, shuffle | undo, buy a village, end your turn, shuffle
-> the village will just take the place of the silver, the rest of the shuffle will be identical.

Suppose you buy a Silver, end your turn, shuffle | undo, buy a Port, gain another Port, end your turn, shuffle
-> the number of cards in the shuffle has changed. This will lead to a completely new shuffle.

Suppose you buy a Silver, end your turn, shuffle | undo, buy a Noble Brigand, give your opponent a Copper, end your turn, shuffle
-> the Noble Brigand will just take the place of the silver, the rest of the shuffle will be identical.

Suppose you buy a Silver, end your turn, shuffle | undo, buy a Noble Brigand, give your opponent a Copper and make them shuffle, end your turn, shuffle
-> the random numbers that were supposed to determine your shuffle now determine your opponents; yours comes after and will be completely new.

49
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Is it okay to buy Possession?
« on: November 08, 2017, 11:46:02 am »
Now Donald is banning Possession.

When will I ever get to control somebody's turn.

You can control my turn too, it's ok.  I just want us to have some philosophical questions about identity and some fun.

Donald is not banning Possession in the way you describe here. Dominion and Magic are fundamentally different games, and the concept of banned cards in magic does not translate to Dominion. You can still play with Possession, it just won't be forced upon you anymore.

I suggest you ask your opponent once in a while what they think about Possession. If it turns out they like it, you propose another game after this one with Possession as only required card.
If you pull that off in about 3% of your games, you're back at your old Possession frequency. Except now all those games will be with players that don't yell at you for buying the card and probably like to think about its strategic implications.

In the meanwhile, the vast majority of players seems to be happy with the ban.

50
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Is it okay to buy Possession?
« on: November 06, 2017, 05:27:57 pm »
Donald just asked me to temporarily ban possession until we get the banned cards feature up.
I agreed to do that and will release it in a day or two.

I guess that settles this threads question.

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