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Messages - -Stef-

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1151
Puzzles and Challenges / perfect shuffle luck & first game kingdom
« on: June 09, 2012, 09:53:00 am »
You're playing a solitaire game on the "first game" kingdom. So that's Cellar, Market, Mine, Militia, Moat, Remodel, Smithy, Village, Woodcutter and Workshop. It's your lucky day, so whenever you need to shuffle anything you can just choose the outcome. At the end of which turn can you have 8 provinces in your deck? I get the same number for 5/2 and 4/3 openings.

(note: the goal is 8 provinces in your deck, not depleting provinces)

Nowhere near as fun as an actual game, but hey...
If you have another puzzle waiting, this would be a great day to post it.

1152
Dominion Articles / Re: Terminal Draw Big Money
« on: June 06, 2012, 09:12:23 am »
Really liked the article, thanks for writing it.


When I open masquerade, it's masq/silver more then 90% of the time. Only very few other cards I even consider, and Island definately isn't one of them. Am I wrong on this one?
Also I like masq a lot in engines, even more then steward. It enables such a nice start (trashing combined with getting 5 cards).

1159
Tournaments and Events / Re: One Day Cup: Take Two - June 2nd
« on: June 02, 2012, 07:17:06 am »
Count me in

1160
Dominion Articles / Re: Taking risks & driving the P2 seat
« on: May 28, 2012, 07:26:42 pm »
Dear readers of this post, I think it's time for the group hug  :)

It was/is my first article here, I liked writing it, and I like the fact that people respond to it.
I think I can handle a bit of criticism too. Nevertheless, with a little more respect from everyone to everyone, I think we could get a better argument with more solid conclusions, advice and/or revisions on the original post.

So far I understand: actual game logs would be an important addition.
Also: ahead/behind is more important then P1/P2, maybe point that out more clearly.
I'd also like to add a game where my P1 and P2 openings actually are different. Still not sure if the steward/steward versus fishing/steward example can fill this role. Will work it out though.

And finally: I make tons of mistakes. Not a single game without any, and complicated engines probably at least one each turn. Dominion is way to complex to even think about 'playing perfect'. Tic tac toe I can play perfect, but that's about the most complicated game that statement applies to.

1161
With everyone bashing develop, I feel a certain urge to defend it  ;) I won't say I love it, but I certainly don't ignore it either. It doesn't feel like the lamest $3 card to me at all.

If it's the only trasher, and I really want to build an engine (and I always do) then develop it will be. If I play with scrying pools, I don't care how bad the trasher is - those coppers and estates just have to go. The engine is almost always worth it.

Another scenario that springs to mind is vineyards; its ok to gain points by putting another 2 actions on my deck.

It feels quite good with IGG. Getting a gold on my deck... yummie. Getting rid of a curse... not that bad. In a straight IGG-rush I probably don't have time to pick up a develop, but in a slightly different game (say IGG + witch) I think I'd go for it at some point.

And of course develop can really shine in end-game shenanigans. If both players have a very strong deck and I want to threaten to end the game on 3 piles, develop is likely to help a lot. Put it on your deck, draw it, use it, repeat...  8)

1162
Dominion Articles / Re: Taking risks & driving the P2 seat
« on: May 27, 2012, 01:57:10 pm »
I know I didn't include any real practical advice. I'm just trying to point out that 'best in quarantine' and 'best in an actual game' can be very different things.

--

For a set where I actually would open steward/steward as P2 I refer to a post of Jeebus (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2469.0) where he references this game http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120430-220116-745a70e9.html

I want to draw my deck with highways/markets ASAP, and I'm not that interested in anything else. No good draw available, so getting rid of 4 cards is really good. As P1, or against an opponent going for the alchemists, fishing/steward feels better & safer.

1163
Dominion Articles / Taking risks & driving the P2 seat
« on: May 27, 2012, 12:26:26 pm »
Suppose we're playing Borinion, a much more boring game then Dominion. Two players, P1 and P2, take consecutive turns. P1 gets to start, and due to the unfair nature of this game it ends after 9 turns. So P1 always gets to make one extra turn. Both players start at 100 points, and every turn they choose...

option A: 60% chance at +3 points, 40% at -3 points
option B: 50% chance at +5 points, 50% at -5 points
option C: 40% chance at +10 points, 60% at -10 points

If you play this game in isolation, it's easy: always option A is best. In fact, it's the only option with a positive mathematical expectation. Simulation over one million games shows that if both players follow this simple minded strategy, P1 will win approximately 555000 vs 445000 (55.5 win% for P1).

However, this game is not about scoring as many points as you can. It's about scoring more points than your opponent. And thus, plans that might look bad at first glance end up being better after all.

Suppose we leave the game plan of P1 what it was ('always go A'), but experiment a bit with P2. If we change it to 'option A when ahead, option B when behind' the win% for P1 drops to 51%. 'option A when ahead, option C when behind' works even better; now P1 only wins 46% of the games. We can improve P2 further by delaying the risky things, and enforcing option A on his first turn (42.5% for P1) or his first two turns (42.1% for P1).

I'm starting to get convinced the optimal strategy is actually quite complex. I think it uses all 3 options, and also includes the 'turns to go' and 'actual point difference' (not just 'am I behind or ahead'). But I won't go into that - I didn't name it Borinion for nothing.

So what does this game teach us about Dominion? Most of all that the optimal strategy always involves your opponent. Even on kingdoms without any attacks, it matters a lot what he's doing and how well he's doing. If you both start out the same, but he has some shuffle luck and you don’t, it's time for crazy things. I he stumbles where you thrive, try to buy safe cards.

It also suggests it’s good to have options. If you create an option B, C or D for yourself to use later on, that choice itself is already good. Engines give you much more options than BigMoney. So in playing engines right, it's not just about 'how can I effectively build this engine in solo play'. It also requires a good feeling/understanding for taking risks. Simulators we use today don't understand it at all, and that may very well be the reason variants of BigMoney strategies do so well in simulation and so poorly in reality.

Opening two terminals isn't all that bad just because they might collide. P1 has no real reason to take this risk, but P2 is already behind at the start. It of course depends on the questions 'how good is it if they don't collide' and 'how bad is it if they do'.

One of my favorites is double Steward, because if they collide I can still get rid of 2 cards. I wasn't going to do much more on a turn with steward without collision anyway. Don't get me wrong - I'm not happy with the collision at all - but it's not a game losing disaster either. And depending on the kingdom, being able to get rid of 4 cards in the first round may very well be winning. As a rule of thumb, opening with two terminals is too soon to take risks though.

It’s not easy to define risky or safe things in general. A safe choice that happens often midgame is adding a little more +actions to your deck than the bare minimum. Another safe choice is to stop playing your engine where you could draw some more cards, just to prevent a reshuffle. Maybe you can put a good card on top for next turn?

Risky things could include adding more cards that require other cards (Baron, Remodel, Forge) or buying slightly too many terminals in general. Village + smithy is more risky than laboratory + laboratory. Swindler has the risk build-in all by himself. So do treasure map and tournament, but they’re not really an addition to a deck - they require building your entire deck around them.

In the endgame it can get quite complex because of the ending conditions of a Dominion game. The most common risky thing is buying the next-to-last province. There is a rule for not doing it, but even if it made you lose, that doesn't automatically say it was a bad thing to buy it. If your deck is not so good, and you're losing the long run for sure, try to sneak out a victory now.

To summarize: constantly figure out whether you’re ahead or behind. If you’re ahead consolidate, if you’re behind make a plan to get back. As player 2, you’re behind when you start - do something with it.

1164
GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 5: Sign-Up Thread
« on: May 25, 2012, 07:04:44 pm »
count me in... I'd love to play a tournament.

1165
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Overrated and Underrated
« on: May 24, 2012, 11:50:36 am »
Hi everyone,

I'm very new to these forums and I *really* like engines.
(sounds familiar in this thread? ;))

Underrated:

* making your strategy depend on the game status.
I read lots of articles here about strategies run by simulators. Algorithms based on my own deck and maybe something about the general stack. But when I play a game myself, my decisions depend highly on the deck of my opponent as well. Without going into the details of any card: Play bold when you're behind, play safe when you're ahead. Get more buys then he has when it looks like it might end on 3 piles. (not to disqualify the simulator, because I think Geronimoo did as great job on that)
* drawing more cards then your deck has.
In general, when the board allows you to draw your deck, gain something, draw & use it all in 1 turn... things go really really crazy. Almost always worth it & winning.
* Making mistakes.
I still have some games where I start out on this really really dumb plan and lose horribly. As long as I'm capable of admitting that, the pressure of winning is of and it all goes much easier/better. Maybe it sounds a bit strange, but the way I feel has a huge impact on the level of my play. And apart from that, admitting mistakes is a great way to learn and keep discussions more interesting then "no, *you* had more luck".


Finally one point about alchemist: more then with other cards, it's value depends on how good you are at the game. So when WW says it's mostly way too slow, he's probably right, because he's a good player. But when your alternative to 'just load in alchemists until they're gone' is not so strong... it's actually a pretty ok card.

1166
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Resignation bug
« on: May 24, 2012, 11:24:02 am »
Hi everyone,

my first post on these forums :)

I'll try to write something more interesting in another thread, but this one really was about a bug. And although bugs are not a good topic for discussion, fixing it would be great.

I remember I won the last game against WW, finished the last turn, saw the 'You win' thingy.
We chatted for a minute or two afterwards, and then I clicked 'exit' (not return, what I usually do).
And now the logs report it as though I resigned.
I have no clue wether its reproducable, but then again, I'm not really willing to try extensive testing on this one ;)

And about ARTjoMS... I'll just play an occasional game against him. Those games I will probably enjoy less then average, but so be it. Live & let be.

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