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Messages - yudantaiteki

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26
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Whale - the Moby Dick card
« on: May 18, 2013, 06:44:40 pm »
when was the last time you actually bought Pirate Ship?

If you're in a 4+ player game you better buy them if everyone else is or you're at a huge disadvantage.

27
What happens to the license if Goko goes out of business?

28
I think in most games and sports, a tie is better than a loss. 

29
Rules Questions / Re: End of game rules
« on: May 16, 2013, 10:26:34 pm »
nooooo all wronggggg..... :(

Even though I'm sure it's a joke that is one scary piece of text.

The scariest thing is that all of those are genuine rules mistakes (or at least questions) I've seen from BGG.

30
Rules Questions / End of game rules
« on: May 16, 2013, 05:52:19 pm »
I have what might be a newbie question but I need to explain the turn first that led up to it, I was playing a 2-player game with my brother.

First I played a Throne Room, and a Cellar.  Then I took my two cellar actions -- the first one was an Embargo.  I chose the money option for the Embargo and took my two coppers into my hand, and then the other action was a Woodcutter.  (I was going to play my Thief but I couldn't since my brother's deck was empty.  Anyway I'm sure he had a secret chamber to block the attack.)  I used the Woodcutter buy to get a curse (which I put in my brother's discard pile) and then took a silver for the money part.  Back to the TR'd cellar, I discarded 3 cards and picked up 6.  Then for my buy phase I had 10 money in my hand so I discarded the treasures, bought a province, and remembered that I would have 2 extra money next turn.

When I discarded the rest of the cards I picked up my 5 card hand for next round.  One was a mining village which I was immediately able to trash for a silver, but then I had to discard one card to get down to 5.

Now it was my brother's turn.  He bought the last province and I wondered, does he get to finish his turn or does the game end immediately?

I should have also had trashing 2 treasure maps from hand without using an action...

31
Also assuming wins gain you more points than ties, the weaker player would still try for a win.

32
How many games are there that assign a specific point value to 1st player advantage, rather than attempting to compensate for it in some other way?  Go is the only one I know of.

33
This "luck vs. strategy" debate was already had in another topic:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5542.0

There's a difference between luck that is written into the rules of the game and "luck" arising from human mistakes.

34
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Single Card Kingdoms
« on: May 12, 2013, 10:15:42 pm »
But you would never gain a card you cannot gain.
No, you would gain it, but instead, you do something else. And that's exactly the reason why you cannot gain it. If you always reveal a Trader, you never actually gain any cards other than silvers, but you still would gain all sorts of cards.

But the first post states that the cards can never be gained. So you would never gain them. Of course your point makes sense, too. I think it's a bit like the question of the hen and the egg. Which was first?

I think that was just a clarifying statement -- Junk Dealer as written cannot be gained regardless of an external rule.  It basically serves to let you spend a buy to pick a card from the trash or trash a card from your hand.

One wording thing I wonder about:
Quote
Recruiter:
Kingdom - $4
When you would gain this, instead gain a card costing up to $5, and set it aside on your Servants mat.
---
During your turn, you may play cards from your Servants mat as if they were cards in your hand. Trash any cards you play this way.

Does this need to specify when you trash the cards you play?  I'm unsure of how this works with cards like Feast or Mining Village.

35
But this isn't meaningless "definitional butchering" -- the point of the discussion is what a rating system should do with the situation that the Dominion rules call a "shared victory".  You and Kirian believe that a "shared victory" equals a "tie", others think the words should be interpreted literally as a win for both players.  It does matter for a rating system or tournament structure so it's not just a meaningless semantic debate.

Yes, and this second interpretation is definitionally incorrect, so the conversation should be over.

You're good at Internet debates.

36
But this isn't meaningless "definitional butchering" -- the point of the discussion is what a rating system should do with the situation that the Dominion rules call a "shared victory".  You and Kirian believe that a "shared victory" equals a "tie", others think the words should be interpreted literally as a win for both players.  It does matter for a rating system or tournament structure so it's not just a meaningless semantic debate.

37
Rules Questions / Re: bad (Dutch) translations & rules
« on: May 12, 2013, 12:28:34 pm »
If the translators aren't prepared for the unusually precise wording on Dominion cards, it's easy to see how these mistakes can arise.

I vaguely remember some other BGG thread where someone said that in one language the translator was confused by the "Do X.  If you do, (then) Y" wording and translated it as "You may do X.  If you do, (then) Y."  Considering even some native English speakers want to interpret the "if you do" as implying a choice whether to do X or not, that's not a surprising mistake.

38
That would depend on the rules for the competitive environment.  Dominion has no rules for tournaments or any structure beyond a single game (with the exception of the rule that the loser goes first next game).  It is certainly not impossible to create a league or tournament structure where a "tie" is counted as a win for both players -- depending on the structure there may be no actual difference between a tie and a double-win, but it might make a difference.

For what it's worth, in the World Masters tournament, players who tied did not earn as many "points" as players who won outright.

I'm sure most, if not all, tournaments would do that.  But there wouldn't be anything wrong with counting it as a double win either.  I'm not sure why Kirian is treating this like we're insulting his mother by saying that it would be OK for someone to treat the tie as a double win.

39
It is certainly not impossible to create a league or tournament structure where a "tie" is counted as a win for both players -- depending on the structure there may be no actual difference between a tie and a double-win, but it might make a difference.

It is also not impossible to make a tournament structure where each match involves five games, and then a single die roll determines who actually wins.  You can do it, but no one would.

The Dominion rules do not mention die rolls.  The Dominion rules do mention shared victories.

40
Yeah, I play with a group of college friends most weekends; we bought a goko account immediately but we seem to play less and less each week and we've talked about trying to play Innovation as well (which we've all played before; I bought it as a wedding present for two of them).

The primary annoyance for us is that you can't make a random deck with certain criteria, so we often just have to manually make the deck to get Dark Ages in or remove a few cards that annoy people like Swindler.  I'm the only one in the group who played random matches on Isotropic, but I haven't bought my own goko account yet because of Goko's ridiculous lobby design and puzzling lack of automatch.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's not "pro friendly", I would just say it's not friendly in general.

41

Look, everyone here and elsewhere knows that "rejoice in your shared victory" is just a cute way of saying "tie."  Both players do not actually win in competitive play.

That would depend on the rules for the competitive environment.  Dominion has no rules for tournaments or any structure beyond a single game (with the exception of the rule that the loser goes first next game).  It is certainly not impossible to create a league or tournament structure where a "tie" is counted as a win for both players -- depending on the structure there may be no actual difference between a tie and a double-win, but it might make a difference.

Even in ISOdom it would make a difference; let's say we're playing to 3 games and I'm down 1-2.  If we tie the next game then we play a fifth game, but if it's considered a double win then my opponent advances and I'm knocked out.

42
Rules Questions / Re: bad (Dutch) translations & rules
« on: May 10, 2013, 04:27:36 pm »
There was some thread about a badly translated edition on BGG (I think), and someone recommended playing with the rules as translated just so everyone would be on the same page and wouldn't have to refer to English stuff.  But Donald X responded and said the English rules are the real, official rules and you should use those instead.  Obviously you can house rule anything but Donald's opinion was that you should use the English, not the translations.

43
I actually have been thinking of redoing the 'Princess' card. The idea that a woman is a prize to be won is one of my least favorite things about Dominion.

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic, but winning a tournament to gain a princess is a pretty standard medieval trope; is it really that offensive?

In any case the Princess is clearly a very skilled merchant or haggler, so she's going beyond her gender stereotype. :)  (More seriously, the card art seems less stereotypical than usual; is it just me or does she have some kind of weapons?)

44
General Discussion / Re: Book Recommendations
« on: May 08, 2013, 09:15:27 am »
Anythign Murakami.  anything by Haruki Murakami is just great.

But if you can't find him, and pick up Coin Locker Babies by Ryu Murakami, that's also good.  Weird as all get-up, but good.  Actually, Haruki Murakami's books are also mostly weird.

I've read 75% of Murakami Haruki's books.  I met him once, before I cared about his stuff...hilariously, he told me his name and I was like "hey, you have the same name as that famous author."  He looked me in the eye, with a death glare, and replied, "I am the famous author." 

That all happened in Japanese, in front of a bunch of people who knew who he was, so it was extra hilarious.

Did Murakami Ryu write "Vibrator"?  That's a good book.


Anyway, for my recommendation, buy Kokoro by Soseki Natsume (flip the name for books in English).  If you can't find it, I Am A Cat by the same author is worthwhile.
Dude, that is 120% awesome!  No, Murakami Ryu didn't write Vibrator; he maybe is best known for "Audition" which also was turned into a movie.  But that's too gruesome for my tastes.  Or "Almost Transparent Blue" which won the Akutagawa prize.  I'm also going to check up on Soseki Natsume, I really enjoy Japanese literature, it has this...really...gosh, I'm searching for the right word, but I'm not finding it, which surprises me greatly...maybe "surreal" or "dystopian", or "personal" element to it.  It's very moving, for sure.

Soseki isn't really surreal or dystopian so you may not enjoy that as much.  I prefer Akutagawa myself; "Rashomon" is still one of my favorite Japanese works.  (The Tale of Genji is my favorite book, but it's very long and moves slowly, so won't be to everyone's tastes.  I find it hard to recommend it.)

45
General Discussion / Re: Book Recommendations
« on: May 08, 2013, 09:13:28 am »
Caves of Steel by Asimov has always been special to me; it was one of the first books I ever read as a kid.

I recently read the whole 14 book set that Asimov later called the "foundation series".  Overall it was pretty good; I definitely suggest reading them in publication order rather than the internal chronological order that he suggested in 1988.  Basically there are two groups -- the 50's "pulp" novels and then his return to the series in the 80's and 90's.  Overall I would have to say I liked the 50's group better, but it is interesting seeing him try to combine all the books into a single story by the end.  It's just too bad he never wrote anything that took place after Foundation and Earth.

I may be mistaken, but some of the final Foundation books weren't even written by Asimov. They may not be included in these 14 books, but it's the first three that are really good. The other ones are fine, but not of the same caliber as the initial ones.

There were, I think, only three written by others, and they aren't counted in the 14.  There are four robot novels, three empire novels, and seven Foundation novels.

And I strongly disagree on quality; the early novels are shorter, less thoroughly plotted, and less complex.  Oh, and generally have flat characters, and the only female characters are one dimensional set pieces if they exist.

I liked those books because I found they were less about the characters and more about the idea of the Foundation. It's a greater picture, not really about the people.

I should put this under spoilers for the whole series:
I mostly thought that his later efforts to unite the series resulted in some clumsy retcons and bizarre choices that in some cases undermined the old series.  In particular, the revelation that Daneel Olivaw and that other robot were really the first ones to come up with Psychohistory diminished Hari Seldon a bit, and I also was a little bothered by F&E's surprise ending that the Foundation was just one of two options that Olivaw set up, and that it turned out to be the wrong one (in favor of humanity joining together as Gaea).

I will stand by my opinion that the initial Foundation Trilogy and the first two Bailey detective novels are the best of the series.  The "empire trilogy" is pure 50's pulp and mostly good for entertainment.

46
General Discussion / Re: Book Recommendations
« on: May 07, 2013, 12:13:20 pm »
Caves of Steel by Asimov has always been special to me; it was one of the first books I ever read as a kid.

I recently read the whole 14 book set that Asimov later called the "foundation series".  Overall it was pretty good; I definitely suggest reading them in publication order rather than the internal chronological order that he suggested in 1988.  Basically there are two groups -- the 50's "pulp" novels and then his return to the series in the 80's and 90's.  Overall I would have to say I liked the 50's group better, but it is interesting seeing him try to combine all the books into a single story by the end.  It's just too bad he never wrote anything that took place after Foundation and Earth.

47
Dominion General Discussion / Re: What is your favorite Promo card?
« on: May 05, 2013, 11:21:41 am »
Governor is clearly the most powerful of the cards but I don't like it because it's a strategy in itself, and a pretty good one.  For me it's the only card besides Ill-Gotten Gains that's annoying for this reason.

Black Market is my favorite just for the craziness value, even though it's a questionable purchase on most boards.

48
Goko Dominion Online / Re: System Update 5/1/13
« on: May 02, 2013, 10:11:04 am »
Looks good, but automatch is still a "won't spend any money until they put it in" thing for me.

49
Yeah the dreaded "2P on a Familiar board" is rage-inducing.

50
Which is worse, Mint/Curse or the 10 Mandarin "opening"?

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