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201

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fire Ship

« on: May 27, 2012, 07:28:55 am »

And for the reaction portion, its a wording reword, "If you do, the player may trash the attack or the effects of the attack are reversed and the attack card is returned to the player's hand.

That doesn't work; "reversed" is undefined in the Dominion rules and no effects have taken place yet, since the order goes play the card -> reactions -> effects of the card.

I'm not sure why it needs to be returned to the hand; can you just say "If you do, the player chooses one: Resolve the attack and then trash it, or discard it without resolving its effects."

202

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The game's largest structural flaw, imho

« on: May 27, 2012, 07:24:10 am »

There's high variability games and low variability games.  You can make changes to increase and decrease that, and it's plausible there is some medium between high and low that he's looking for.

Yes. Also, in the dominion downer thread, variations on having-the-wrong-amount-to-spend total around 47% of the votes, so I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way.

But the dominion downer thread was not "Which downers do you think should not exist", it was just which is your least favorite to experience.

203

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Increasing the cost of Gold to $7

« on: May 27, 2012, 07:21:39 am »

I don't think it's possible to make changes to the basic VP and treasure cards without causing massive balance problems throughout the whole game.

204

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Alternate First Game Kingdom

« on: May 26, 2012, 03:50:32 am »

I'd say after a few games (within a reasonable period of time), new players should be ready for anything thrown at them.  Introduce Potions and Durations whenever you feel like it.

Depends on the player.  I wouldn't feel comfortable using Durations or Potions with players who have not mastered basic gameplay things like:
- Keeping discard and draw decks separate
- Playing cards to the in-play area rather than directly to the discard
- Understanding the difference between trashing and discarding
- Keeping the action and buy phases separate (in particular, not forgetting that if they use something like Workshop they can still buy something)
- Remembering to discard their hand and draw 5 cards during cleanup

Some players will have this all down by the end of the first game, others may take much longer.

205

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greatest Isotropic Moments of 2012

« on: May 25, 2012, 11:23:49 pm »

Worst Tactician turn I've ever seen.  My pre-draw hand was Curse, Copper, Estate, Monument, Witch.

(You reshuffle.)
You draw 3 Curses, an Estate, and a Copper and get +1 action and +1 buy from your Tactician.
You play a Monument.
... You get +$2 and +1 ▼.
You play a Witch.
... You draw 2 Curses.
... Malinda gains nothing.
... Rick gains nothing.
... ellie gains nothing.
You play 2 Coppers.
You buy a Horse Traders.

206

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Overrated and Underrated

« on: May 23, 2012, 09:44:21 am »

The problem is engines do not want it because the buy effect is horrible. You can't buy it too early because putting 5 coppers back or silver/3 copper back on top early is not a good thing.  Buying it later means you are using it purely for its buy effect which makes buying a duchy likely better unless you are trying to take last two provinces or something.   

You just don't understand the power of buying 10 Mandarins on your first 10 turns if you get the 5/2 split.

(I remember a game some time ago where the other player opened Mandarin and then bought 6 Mandarins on the first 6 turns -- I was nervous because I figured someone wouldn't do that unless there was some really good strategy behind it.  But he lost really badly, so I don't know what he thought he was doing.)

207

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greatest Isotropic Moments of 2012

« on: May 18, 2012, 11:22:36 pm »

XXXXXXXXXX plays a Throne Room.
... and plays an Envoy.
... ... drawing a Bishop.
... ... discarding a Bishop and putting the rest into the hand.
... and plays the Envoy again.
... ... (XXXXXXXXXXX reshuffles.)
... ... drawing a Bishop.
... ... discarding a Bishop and putting the rest into the hand.

208

Game Reports / Re: Dear My Opponent: I am Sorry

« on: May 17, 2012, 04:58:32 am »

... ... ... ... Wastegard reveals 5 Estates and 3 Coppers and then a Silver.

Ouch.

209

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: May 14, 2012, 05:20:35 am »

Inspired by some games I've had involving King's Court and Hamlet/Pawn

Molasses
$5,

+1 Action

Do this twice.  Gain a Molasses card.  Count the number of cards in your discard pile, deck, and the trash, and add the number of turns you have taken plus the result of the roll of a six-sided die.  If the number is:
- Divisible by 3, choose one: (1) Put a card from your hand on your Molasses mat, or (2) +2 Cards
- Divisible by 4, choose one: (1) Pick up 1/3 of the cards from your Molasses mat, rounded down, (2) Trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing at most [cards on your Molasses mat / 2] more, (3) Each player reveals a Stop card or discards down to the number of cards on your Molasses mat, minimum of 2
- Divisible by 5, choose one: (1) Gain a Molasses card, (2) Each other player draws 1 card and you draw 3 cards, (3) Put one gold token on your Molasses mat if there are less than 3 Coin tokens on the supply cards
- Divisible by 7, choose one: (1) Take a Molasses card from the discard pile and put it in your hand, (2) Return a number of cards from your discard pile to the supply equal to the number of cards on your Molasses mat, (3) For each gold token on your Molasses mat, turn over the top card of each opponents' deck and trash it, replacing it with a card of the same cost from the supply.  Molasses cards are discarded instead of trashed if revealed in this way.
- Otherwise, choose one: (1) Put one gold token on your Molasses mat, (2) Gain a Molasses card, (3) +$ equal to the number of gold tokens on your Molasses mat

When you buy this card, each other player gains a Molasses card.

During cleanup, if this card is in play, put it on top of your deck.  If this card is in your hand during the Action phase, you must play it if you can.

Setup: Add an additional Kingdom card to the supply.  Cards from that pile are Stop cards.  Place one Coin token on each Victory and Treasure pile; when a card from this pile is added to a Molasses mat, remove the corresponding coin.  There are 50 Molasses cards in the Molasses pile. 

If you have fewer than five Molasses cards in your deck at the end of the game, your VP total is considered to be 0.

210

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greatest Isotropic Moments of 2011

« on: May 09, 2012, 08:23:58 pm »

Is there going to be a 2012 thread?

--- colin's turn 11 ---
colin does nothing.
(colin draws: a Black Market, a Silver, a Copper, and 2 Curses.)
   

   --- chriskern's turn 11 ---
   chriskern does nothing.
   (chriskern draws: a Black Market, a Curse, 2 Silvers, and an Envoy.)
     

      --- Rick's turn 11 ---
      Rick does nothing.
      (Rick draws: an Estate, 2 Coppers, and 2 Curses.)

This is the result of Sea Hag + no 2-cost card.  Even so I've never seen all 3 players skip their turns in a row.

211

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Getting my family to like Dominion with base Dominion

« on: May 04, 2012, 04:30:47 am »

My main problem with the VP bonus is that it's just too transparent -- if you win 43-40 but you had a 6 VP bonus handicap, it's obvious that you "actually" lost by 3 points.  With the skipped turns or blank cards it's much less clear what would have happened without the handicap.

It does depend on the players, though; some people are less bothered by losing over and over again than others are.

212

Rules Questions / Re: Smugglers

« on: May 02, 2012, 10:25:55 pm »

And the reason for that is that the Forge card specifically says "cost in coins".  As I understand the rules, I believe that if it just said "cost", then you could forge a familiar + silver into a possession, but *not* a gold.

213

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The game's largest structural flaw, imho

« on: May 02, 2012, 10:22:59 pm »

To me this sounds like yet another attempt to "fix" the Big Money problem with a rules change rather than strategy improvement.

214

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Getting my family to like Dominion with base Dominion

« on: May 02, 2012, 10:20:50 pm »

Hmm, that's a good point -- I wonder if skipping turns would have less of an effect, then.

215

Dominion General Discussion / Re: A list of cards that cause problems

« on: May 02, 2012, 04:17:55 am »

I suggest replacing Embargo with Governor, Tournament, or Black Market.

216

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Getting my family to like Dominion with base Dominion

« on: May 02, 2012, 04:11:29 am »

I'll try blank cards next time.  Three at least. 

Another possible handicap is to skip a turn for each game you've won (and then subtract one turn you skip when you come in last).  I'm not sure whether skipping turns or having blank cards is preferable in terms of (a) actually handicapping yourself, and (b) affecting the overall game the least.

I like the "progressive" handicaps the best because the novices can still have a sense of accomplishment, and the handicap disappears on its own if the novices get better.

I especially think that any sort of handicap is better than intentionally not playing well; especially depending on the players.  (However re:handicaps, I absolutely agree with what has been said on past threads that you should not give positive handicaps to the newer players, like replacing their coppers with silver or their estates with duchies.  This just teaches them to play the game wrong.)

217

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Getting my family to like Dominion with base Dominion

« on: April 30, 2012, 08:18:48 pm »

Pawn is the worst of the lot, sure, but still not insurmountable.  I found it useful to introduce Pawn in a Gardens game; the two synergize well (giving +Buy and giving you something cheap to load up on that doesn't clog your deck) and help reduce the AP Pawn usually entails (because in a Gardens game, your choices are usually simplified).  It's also useful to introduce alongside Conspirator, as there it's clear how Pawns are usually used as a "means to an end" rather than an end unto themselves.  (All this said, I would definitely make Pawn one of the last Intrigue cards introduced to the new players.)

Oh, I HATE Pawn. Espically with KC...
And Plays a King's Court
... and plays a Pawn
... and can't choose which option
... and causes me to rage quit after the ten minute turn

I played a game with Pawn, Hamlet, and KC.  I wanted to kill myself by the end of the game.

218

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Getting my family to like Dominion with base Dominion

« on: April 29, 2012, 04:00:49 am »

The next time I play my parents I'm going to try a progressive handicap -- basically, each time I win a game I replace one of my coppers with a blank card, and any time I come in last place I put a copper back.  The blank cards can't be trashed, passed, or returned to supply, and if they get revealed in a way that hurts the opponent (i.e. thief or tribute), they get discarded and the next card revealed instead.

I think this works because there's still a feeling of accomplishment among all players, and I don't have to intentionally try to play poorly.  (They're big golf nuts so they're used to handicaps.)

I'm also hoping to give them some strategy advice, but that alone won't suffice -- they only play when I visit them (or my brother).

219

Game Reports / Arrrrgh!

« on: April 29, 2012, 03:56:36 am »

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120428-055115-cb47509a.html

I went for a Peddler/Salvager strategy, and it was working pretty well, and on turn 16 I drew a peddler and salvager so at worse I could get the last province and split 4-4, and I suspected I had more estates than he did.  He bought the second to last province, but that was fine, because I've got this nice peddler that I drew along with the salvager.  Good thing I have the peddler!  It sure will be nice to get use out of that peddler on my turn!

   --- chriskern's turn 17 ---
   chriskern plays a Peddler.
   ... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action and +$1.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I lost by 3 points  

220

Game Reports / Re: Unstoppable Moat Stack??

« on: April 28, 2012, 08:14:14 am »

GendoIkari plays an Ambassador.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... GendoIkari reveals a Copper.
... returning it to the supply.

GendoIkari plays an Ambassador.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... Yargenius reveals a Moat.
... GendoIkari reveals a Copper.
... returning 2 copies to the supply.

:-/


But I always thought Moat worked OK with cards that give bonus actions, particularly strong ones like Fishing Village.

221

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Ridiculous Dominion House Rules

« on: April 26, 2012, 10:56:32 pm »

The unfortunate situations are when people use house rules to cover what they perceive as flaws in the game, when it's really just flaws in their strategy.  (I have friends who are compulsive house-rulers; as soon as they see something they think is broken, it's time for a banning or house rule.  Sometimes house rules are added before the first game is even over).

I've seen a few people declare their intent to keep playing with the "you must use buys" rule even after they know it's wrong.  The rationale seems to be that they're still in the pre-BM phase of "buy as many actions as you can", and they see this rule as a way to nerf action chains.  Also one person said that it added nuance to the "obvious" choice of always buying the most expensive stuff you can afford, since that will often mean having to take coppers.

Obviously this rule completely throws off the balance and costs of the cards -- if you were forced to use your buys, I'm not sure I would buy Market at $2, much less $5 (outside of a Gardens game).  And the unfortunate thing is that playing with these house rules prevents the players from improving their play.

Same goes for the "throw curse in another player's discard pile", which greatly increases the value of extra buys, slows down every game, makes Witch nowhere near a $5 cost card, etc.  This partly seems to stem from beginners who mainly view curse as "-1 VP" and aren't fully aware of the bigger drawback of the card, clogging your deck.

222

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Ridiculous Dominion House Rules

« on: April 26, 2012, 10:25:18 am »

When I first played the game I read the entire Rules subforum on BGG to make sure I wasn't making any mistakes; these are some of the (mostly accidental) house rules I saw there:

- If you cannot do everything on a card, you cannot play it (i.e. if you do not have 2 actions in your hand, you can't play Village)
- You must use up all of your buys every turn. You must use all of your actions if you are able to.
- "+1 action" means "Play another action card right now."
- You can buy a curse during your buy phase and put it in another person's deck.
- At the beginning of your turn, either draw to 5 cards or discard down to 5.
- Break ties by counting the total treasure in decks.
- Everyone plays their actions, then everyone buys, then everyone cleans up.
- If a card gives you (say) +2 money, that money cannot be combined with any other source of money to buy things.
- If a card gives you +2 money, you take a Silver card (and so on).
- If a card gives you (say) +2 money, that gives +2 money per buy you have that turn.
- If a card says "reaction", it automatically blocks an attack in addition to whatever other powers it might have.
- After you use a reaction card once, discard it.

Some of the people declared their intention to keep playing with the wrong rules when they were pointed out, usually because they were beginners who couldn't really see how it would negatively affect the overall game.  I wonder if they ever switched to normal.

223

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: April 25, 2012, 08:07:13 am »

More cards missing a word, along the lines of "Room":

Malfunctioning Lighthouse
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: +$1.
While this is in play, it doesn’t affect you.

Inept Cutpurse
+$2
Each other player discards a Copper card (or reveals a hand with Copper).

Obsession
Trash this and your hand. If you do trash two Treasure Maps, gain 4 Gold cards, putting them on top of your deck.

Dominion -- buy them all!
Victory
1P
Worth 1 VP for every three Action cards.

Smart Person's Gold
This is worth $4.
—
When another player gains a Province, gain a Gold, putting it on your deck.

Jedi Of All Trades
Gain a Silver.
Look at the top card of your deck.
You have 5 cards in hand.
Your hand is not a Treasure.