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Messages - qmech

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1851
Game Reports / Re: May 5th Tournament Final Game Comentary
« on: May 06, 2012, 03:57:39 pm »
Game 1

This game was lost entirely due to ednever picking up all 8 of the Nobles.  I got some early Goons and bought 4 before deciding to switch to Nobles: then I never hit 6 again until the pile was empty.  Nobles were absolutely key here, and my fourth Goons was probably a mistake.  I'm surprised things stayed as close as they did given my complete absence of draw, but I had to engage in some serious Duchy and Copper buying to make up points.

Two other things are worth mentioning.  First is that Horse Traders became particularly useful here, as it was my only source of "draw", giving me fodder to discard to Inn whenever I had one in hand.  The second is that this game reached the point where two Inn buys would end the game.  I was relying on Inn to keep my Duchies and Copper buried, but that option was eventually removed from me.  So bear in mind that deck management with Inn can't go on indefinitely.



Game 2

Warehouse/Tunnel is a great opening because it leads to fast Gold.  But it should be viewed as an accelerant, rather than an end in itself.  In this game Platinum was necessary to buy Colonies, but I think over-investment in Tunnels is likely to be a mistake even in Province games.  Here are our deck contents after 7 turns:

qmech: 5 points : 1 Platinum, 3 Gold, 1 Bridge, 1 Tunnel, 4 Warehouse, 3 Estate, 7 Copper
ednever: 11 points : 2 Gold, 1 Bridge, 4 Tunnel, 3 Warehouse, 3 Estate, 7 Copper

I have fewer Tunnels but more Gold (and a Platinum), as extra Warehouses mean that I see my Tunnel more often, and am able to spend the Gold I'm gaining faster.  In the late game, I also have fewer dead cards to filter out, which more than makes up for the points from Ed's 6 extra Tunnels.

(Note on the above example: it's slightly misleading, as the last two buys were Platinum for me, and Tunnelx2 for Ed.)



Game 3

Not very exciting.  Ed gets Farmland/Curse -> Estate a couple of times, but if they were Duchies instead it wouldn't have affected the result.

1852
Tournaments and Events / Re: 1 Day Cup 5th May / Results
« on: May 06, 2012, 01:55:01 pm »
Congratulation to Ed on his well-deserved victory!  He made it through the tournament undefeated.

This is the first tournament I've played in, and it was a brilliant experience: knowing that both players are really concentrating on everything that they do takes the games to a higher level.  Thanks go of course to Rabid for organising it.

I'll be adding my commentary for the final games later.

1853
Dominion General Discussion / Re: How Can I Improve
« on: May 06, 2012, 01:00:00 pm »
Yeah I had trouble figuring out which part of that post was a joke, so I'm guessing it's just all of it :)

Apparently it's true.

1854
Game Reports / Re: IRL nombo? Counting House + Goons + Inn
« on: May 06, 2012, 06:43:24 am »
-No card drawing
Seems like counting house is supposed to fill that role...
If you're being Goons'ed every turn, then a best case hand would be Inn/Inn/Counting House, play one Inn, the Counting House, then rely on Inns to swap Coppers for other, more useful, cards.  It's delicate, but perhaps slightly better than skipping the Counting House.

I played a game in Rabid's tournament where Inn/Goons/Horse Traders came up.  The Horse Traders offsets the discard attack of Goons, letting you get slightly more out of your Inns.  (This game also had Nobles, but sadly I couldn't get any of them, so this was the next best thing.)

1855
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Where's the official app?
« on: May 06, 2012, 06:22:32 am »
FunSockets

It looks like they haven't done anything yet, but plan to be a general platform for browser-based games, probably with Dominion as a launch title.  That would explain the secrecy to a degree, and possibly the time delays if they have other things they want to release at the same time.

1860
There are TCGs with similar mechanics.  In the Pokemon TCG, Trainers can always be played for free, but there is a sub-type called Supporters of which you can only play one a turn.  There's no analogue of Village though.  (This information could be many years out of date.)

1861
Solo Challenges / Re: My Second Solo Challenge: Nothing
« on: May 03, 2012, 05:05:39 am »
Which does just about work as long as you KC it.

1862
Dominion General Discussion / Re: So...has anyone heard from Qvist?
« on: May 03, 2012, 05:02:39 am »
Man, Google translate has a long way to go still when it comes to German.

"The question of the fun of Dominion"

That seems OK to me.  I can imagine English threads titled "The question of X".

1863
Rules Questions / Re: Smugglers
« on: May 03, 2012, 04:56:05 am »
Based on this log, I'm going to say that it's because your opponent didn't gain a Duchy on their previous turn, and Smugglers isn't just a turbo-charged Workshop.  You would have automatically gained an Estate if your opponent hadn't just emptied the pile.

1864
Rules Questions / Re: loophole?
« on: May 01, 2012, 01:53:38 pm »
I played 1k games of base Dominion on BSW

You poor thing.  You have my sympathy.

Also, in before the 9th Doctor.

1865
Dominion Articles / Re: Request: Philosopher's Stone
« on: May 01, 2012, 04:09:13 am »
Hmm, I guess my understanding of the sentence "per 5 cards between them" was off. I thought it would be worth more when there is a greater spread.  ???

An interesting reading.  This would play more like a Counting House that is weakest in the middle of a shuffle than a Philosopher's Stone.  I guess you could tweak the 5 to increase its average value, but that would give you some extremely high-value turns.

(The card text says "total between", which I think is less ambiguous.)

1866
Tournaments and Events / Re: 1 Day Cup 5th May
« on: May 01, 2012, 03:42:12 am »
The tournament starts at 13.00 UTC (or GMT).  That's 8.00 EST, or 9.00 EDT if you're currently on DST.

1867
I have the same experience for the two logs that you linked.

1868
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: how to make real cards
« on: April 29, 2012, 05:14:55 pm »
You can do what you like with the blanks, but you're never going to have enough to make all the fan cards you'd like to.  I'll third the sleeves suggestion.

1869
Dominion Articles / Re: Request: Philosopher's Stone
« on: April 29, 2012, 02:50:55 pm »
Philosopher's Stone counts cards in deck and discard pile, so Golem is a slight anti-synergy.

1870
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« on: April 29, 2012, 08:11:45 am »
I think I'm less likely to say "gg" after a win, as some people do interpret it as gloating.  If in doubt, I follow my opponent's lead.

For anyone who fully accepts that Dominion is a game played inside a probability space, fluke losses against bad strategies shouldn't rankle, as they're offset by proportionately many easier wins.

1871
Dominion Articles / Re: Request: Philosopher's Stone
« on: April 29, 2012, 07:55:55 am »
Here's a game featuring Ambassador, Herbalist and Philosopher's Stone.  There isn't anything exciting to do with a small deck, so "ignoring" Ambassador is a reasonable move.  That said, I do open Ambassador/Silver, with my opponent opting for double Ambassador.  I never return anything to the supply, but liked Ambassador as a feint so that my opponent was reasonably committed once I started picking up Potions (it was also the Bane, but an early Young Witch would be a strange move in the presence of Ambassador regardless).  I'm not sure there are any other cards you can do this with (not wishing to exclude the possibility that you can't sensibly do it with Ambassador!).

Philosopher's Stone can also be quite good in long multi-player games, although looking through my logs it seems I've generally done better by ignoring it.

1872
Tournaments and Events / Re: 1 Day Cup 5th May
« on: April 29, 2012, 07:38:03 am »
When would be too late to de-register if something comes up?

1873
Solo Challenges / Re: allfail's solo challenge: I like VPs!
« on: April 29, 2012, 07:24:08 am »
It's... beautiful.

 :)

I was very interested to see what other approaches there were.  I particularly liked that you can end the game with Mining Village for the final buy rather than Harem, and the idea of using Scheme to protect your engine parts.  Mazwa's use of Quarry as the only cost-reducer, so that Colonies and Provinces had to be bought the hard way, was nice too.

I started thinking about this when the scoring criterion was turns - VP/2, which made it more obvious that the thing to focus on was maximising score.  With that in mind my first idea was was KC/KC/Workshop/NV/(Highways), which lets you put away 3 cards a turn indefinitely.  There are (at least) two ways to set that up: you can either dispose of the Chapel via Farmland/Island, or you can observe that you have an extra play of KC hanging around, and use it on a Highway.  The second option makes you wonder if you can pull the same trick on a bigger deck, which leads to the set-up in the log.

Why three Workshops?  I think because it didn't stall too badly the first time I tried it, and 4 felt like it would slow down the trashing at the end more than it was likely to speed up the middle section.  I settled on 7 KCs, 7 Highways, 3 Workshops and 3 NVs (and a single Chapel) which is what you need to be able to draw your deck and put 9 cards on the mat, and also happens to have enough slack that you can afford to open your turn with a single KC/Highway if necessary.

I think up to turn 8 is as tight as possible if you're trying for this engine.  Turns 9-11 are completing the set-up.  Turns 12-24 are the business turns, of which 6 were lost due to failing to draw the deck (so the gains from better luck here are greater than any potential gains from upping the Workshop count).  It then takes 5 turns to trash 20 cards, which is followed by the final Farmland purchase.

Can anyone tighten this up, or find a more efficient method that doesn't rely on too much shuffle luck?  In particular, this needs 5 Kingdom cards (trash, cost reduction, gaining, stashing, drawing and KC, with Highway counting twice).  Can you gain arbitrarily many cards with less set-up?  My feeling is that increasing the points gained is unlikely to be cost-effective, as the big three of Silk Road, Duke and Gardens are already in.

A huge thanks to allfail for the fascinating challenge.

1874
Solo Challenges / Re: Geronimoo's challenges - The Black Market
« on: April 28, 2012, 06:28:49 am »
I should think so.

buying out the Colonies

Specifically buying?

1875
Solo Challenges / Re: Geronimoo's challenges - The Black Market
« on: April 28, 2012, 04:47:22 am »
Is there any way on Iso to dictate what cards are in the BM deck?

There is not.

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