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Messages - qmech

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1826
Woodcutter got a fairly high billing next to Workshop in some of the early blog articles.

I also viewed it as somewhat interchangeable with Workshop, but no longer know where I picked up that idea.

1827
Game Reports / Re: Feast fun.
« on: May 12, 2012, 03:20:29 pm »
university-scrying pool matches

Inter-collegiate sport in the magical world?

1828
Game Reports / Re: Silk Road rush vs Gardens rush
« on: May 12, 2012, 03:01:40 pm »
In a straight rush, I'm not sure it matters, as you expect each to be worth 3VP.  In a longer game, I think I like Silk Road more, but it's a close thing.

It's yet another case of very well-balanced card design.

EDIT: O is referring to this thread.

1829
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card Idea: Irrigated Land
« on: May 12, 2012, 02:56:13 pm »
Of course, you may do it, but without that clause it's just a more expensive Estate which doesn't add a whole lot to the game.

I think it's a Silver, which makes it much more attractive.

On-buy trashing is a good space to explore.  What makes you think the clean-up penalty is necessary?  That otherwise it's just a better Silver/weaker Harem?

1830
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Magician
« on: May 12, 2012, 05:53:21 am »
Deadlock's comment makes me realise that there isn't so much of a problem with Mining Village, since you don't get the +$2.  It's still a very effective trasher, but more a cool interaction than obviously broken.  As a "worst" case scenario Mining Village doesn't seem so bad.

1831
Seems to me like Golem would be affected least. It tosses aside the Curses in your deck when you use it.

Golem is hurt by curses about as much as any other card; the cards you skip are likely to be typical of your non-Action cards, so the number of Curses you draw into hand each turn will be about what you'd expect.

1832
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Magician
« on: May 11, 2012, 04:55:03 pm »
And the top of deck option?

1833
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Magician
« on: May 11, 2012, 02:28:14 pm »
For "do something" I was thinking in the senses you described: putting on deck, discarding and trashing.  So you wouldn't be able to use it to turn junk in hand into useful actions.

1834
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Magician
« on: May 11, 2012, 03:39:14 am »
1. Should the action allow you to gain an identical card, or should it be limited to "a different card of equal or lower cost." If the card can be the same, having two magicians in hand allows you to simply gain a copy of any other card you have in hand (although at the expense of playing one magician and discarding the other, along with the target card).

That doesn't sound even close to overpowered, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Here's another take on the reaction mechanics: whenever you do something with a card you may swap that card for one in your hand and do it to the new card instead.

Example interactions: play a Feast, then trash an Estate from your hand instead of the Feast, and put the Feast back in your hand.

Your Province is Swindled, you can trash a Copper from your hand, place the Province in hand, then gain another Province.

You're forced to discard Copper to Cutpurse, you put it back in your hand and discard a Curse.

Gain a Village with Ironworks, discard a card to put it in your hand.

This fits nicely with your proposed upper half and the theme of card manipulation.  It doesn't look obviously overpowered, but as an alternative to reveal-and-discard if it is you could replace the "switch with card from hand" by "look at the top card of your deck and optionally switch", Sea Hag style.

1835
Dominion Articles / Re: Throne Room
« on: May 11, 2012, 03:10:38 am »
Maybe at first, but once you start greening you're going to stall hard.  Wharf has the huge advantage that even a single TR/Wharf this turn gives you 9 cards to find the combo again next turn.  (It's "partially non-terminal".)

On the next turn where you have 9 card, TR-Wharf are not in your deck so you can't find them again.  You'd need two of each to do it every turn.

Playing a single TR/Wharf this turn.  Of course you can't chain a single Wharf.

Geronimoo's observation that BM/Wharf will frequently beat TR/Wharf rings true.

1836
Best set
$5 Inn, Counting House, Mountebank, Merchant Ship, Cache
$4 Young Witch, Feast
$3P Philosopher's Stone
$3 Wishing Well
$2 Courtyard

Next on the list is Black Market, which I guess is the Bane.  And if I'm going to do this properly, the Black Market deck has Develop, Harvest, Swindler, Lookout, Vault, Workshop, Apprentice, Herbalist, Caravan, Secret Chamber, Grand Market, Ironworks, Salvager, Quarry and Saboteur.  No Colonies.

Two things stand out: Cursing, and excellent Counting House support.  I probably open Young Witch/Black Market, as there are a few handy trashers in the the BM (Mountebank/Nothing on 5/2).  Then aim for Caches and a single Counting House, hoping to make Inn/Counting House work a few times.  This set's not at all clear though.

Worst set
$6 Harem
$5 Governor, Margrave, Highway, Mint
$4 Spice Merchant, Envoy
$3 Oracle, Steward
$2 Pearl Diver

Steward/Spice Merchant to Governors (Governor/Nothing on 5/2).  Probably a single Margrave, but it's not obvious whether it can be used for Governor draw shenanigans.

1837
Dominion Articles / Re: Throne Room
« on: May 10, 2012, 05:25:01 am »
TR/terminal draw works fine with enough trashing; the real problem is getting the game to last long enough. In colony games, you can trash down to where odds of having two TR in your starting hand a very high, at that point TR becomes a village.

Maybe at first, but once you start greening you're going to stall hard.  Wharf has the huge advantage that even a single TR/Wharf this turn gives you 9 cards to find the combo again next turn.  (It's "partially non-terminal".)

1838
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Start with Ambassador or Chapel?
« on: May 10, 2012, 04:58:56 am »
If large numbers of players have bought Ambassador then I'd be inclined to skip it altogether.  The game's likely to be over very quickly, and buying Ambassadors will only lead to you spinning your wheels.  Just buy Silvers and rush the Duchies.

If everyone else has gone Chapel, then Ambassador becomes more attractive.

1839
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Magician
« on: May 10, 2012, 04:52:57 am »
I've thought about a similar idea.  I figure that it should be specified that you it doesn't merely change "trash" to "discard" (a la Possession).  For example, "When you trash a card, you may reveal and discard this from your hand.  If you do, you may gain a copy of the trashed card from the Supply."  Otherwise, you risk an abuse case where cards that *should* be trashed like Feast and Embargo could remain in your deck indefinitely.

This is supposed to be a feature, rather than a bug, with the specific intention of helping one-shots.  Using a card from your hand to save a Feast or Embargo doesn't seem overpowered.

It's an interesting idea.  Do you have any example of play you'd like to see this card enable?

1840
Help! / Re: How do you play an Ambassador/Mountebank set?
« on: May 09, 2012, 04:15:27 am »
Is Ambassador fast enough to counter Mountebank?  It does less for your immediate spending power, and doesn't do much more for the relative deck sizes.

1841
Dominion Articles / Re: tactics: turning off the autopilot
« on: May 08, 2012, 05:22:07 pm »
Yes, there's an edge case, but, unlike failing to buy Peddlers, it's not a problem I've ever had! :P

1842
Game Reports / Re: The (Disappearing Village) (Draw up to X) engine
« on: May 08, 2012, 05:06:18 pm »
There's some violent agreement here.

1843
Other Games / Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« on: May 08, 2012, 04:28:06 am »
Computer programs playing multiple games of Prisoner's Dilemma also are optimized by the tit-for-tat strategy

That's a slight overreach: iterated Prisoner's Dilemma is a hard problem that doesn't obviously have a best strategy.  Tit-for-tat is pretty handy in practice though.

I believe BGG has a trading system, but I don't know how effective it is.

1844
Game Reports / Re: Winning With Negative Victory Points >__<
« on: May 07, 2012, 05:43:02 pm »
You probably don't want the last IGGs over Duchies often enough

To clarify, it's often worth switching from IGG to Duchy when there are a couple of IGGs left.  Duchies are worth more VP, and the damage to your deck is less towards the end of the game.  The timing of reshuffles might affect your decision.

1845
Yes.  And is it just me, or is dark in here?

1846
Game Reports / Re: May 5th Tournament Final Game Comentary
« on: May 07, 2012, 05:32:59 pm »
Game 8

A rather unflattering disaster.  When I realise what a stupid "strategy" I'm following a few turns in, there's still time to buy Courtyards and switch to BM.  Instead, I stick with Thief against an opponent who isn't buying Treasure, and face a slow defeat as the KC/Schemes start to stack up.

There aren't any amazing cards to KC here, so Courtyard is probably competitive.



Game 9

Oasis/Silver: Silver will get you Minions faster, Oasis will be much more useful later.  How do you start?

Added to that, there's Ironworks.  Ironworks/Oasis feels so slow, so I go for Silver/Silver.  That eventually gets me 6 of the Minions, but Ed picks up 7 Oases.

Ed chose to end the game on a draw on turn 20.  On turn 19 I had my own dilemma: whether to break the PPR.  I decided not to, knowing he had two Minions left in his deck, so there was a reasonable chance that he could hit 8 next turn.  I expect to be able to keep ahead until the Duchies are gone, so I opt for Duchy/Estate.  When his turn comes, I'm surprised to see no Minions: it turns out that they fell to my own attack.



Game 10

This is the sort of game I dread.  There's King's Court

Key card: Chancellor.  Can you often say that?

Chancellor/Silver was definitely the right opening here.  I can only imagine I was worried about terminal collision: but once you start hitting KCs, you want things to collide, and the rapid cycling is hugely beneficial.  Not unusually, I grind out a lead rather than going for a mega turn, as with fewer KCs I'm not as well equipped for it.  It looks like I might have a chance, but no: Ed picks up his own SuperActionStar on turn 22, and with his final turn purchases of Colony/Colony/Colony/Colony/Duchy, I lose by 11 points.  I think that counts as close.

Thanks to ednever for some great games, and to Rabid for making them count.




Meanwhile qmech was slowly widdling away on the Colonies.

I deny everything.

1847
Feedback / Re: Titles
« on: May 07, 2012, 04:48:04 pm »
start out as lowly Pawns, so surely we must end up as Kings

Queens, surely?

Or possibly Knights.

1848
Dominion Articles / Re: tactics: turning off the autopilot
« on: May 07, 2012, 03:59:27 am »
Always take the most valuable treasure with thief/noble brigand (fairgrounds, harvest, etc. decks can make it far more valuable to poach their only silver, govs can turn silvers into safe fairgrounds whilst golds can only become game losing provinces when last province is out).

Governor can't turn Silvers into Fairgrounds.  I'd also be very surprised if not taking Gold was ever the right move in practice, especially if Governor is around.

1849
Game Reports / Re: Winning With Negative Victory Points >__<
« on: May 06, 2012, 05:37:14 pm »
IGG is usually dominant.  The general (2p) pattern is to buy out IGG, then rush the Duchies.

There are three good support cards here: Militia, Oracle and Smugglers.  In a 3-player game I'd be tempted by Militia.  One on one, I'd prefer Oracle, or possibly Smugglers.  Caravan is less useful than any of these, as your one extra card is unlikely to be anything great (I'd take Silver over Caravan if it was all that was available).

1850
Game Reports / Re: May 5th Tournament Final Game Comentary
« on: May 06, 2012, 04:58:19 pm »
Game 4

This is the sort of game I dread.  There's King's Court, some reasonable actions and a reasonably fast KC-free strategy.  First you have to decide whether or not KC will be useful, and if you decide that it is, you're then thrown on the mercy of the shuffle until you connect KC with something good.

Ed was worried about my Border Village/Hunting Party, and I think he's right to be: the Village is doing very little for me here when I'm KC'ing Hunting Parties.  I haven't thought about how BV will affect HP draws later on, but early on you'd expect it to foul up your engine.  It is an extra action that could connect with a KC, but I don't KC a BV until the very last turn, so that seems not to be important.

There are two other star cards here.  Bank is superb if you can work up to large hands.  Pawn can be the deciding factor in going for KCs, as card draw of last resort but far more importantly as a handy source of Buys.



Game 5

Too often recently I've tried to be cute with Silk Road in the presence of weak support and been punished for it.  Here I held my nerve, trashed my Estates and made a conventional grab for Provinces.  I was surprised to evenly split the Silk Roads against a rusher, but given the relative values of the Duchy and Silk Road in each of our decks, and that I overspent for all but my first Silk Road buy, a more concentrated attack on the Silk Roads wouldn't have affected the result.  Ed's Silk Roads almost ticked over to 5 though, which would have been a huge swing with more Silk Roads in deck.



Game 6

Protip: don't buy naked Farmlands if you're holding a Province in hand.

We both open Contraband nothing for a rapid start with the option for Farmland shenanigans later on to get round the penalty.  We transition into Masquerade/Money: I stick to the script and only buy treasure/VP, whereas Ed picks up a Worker's Village as well as an extra Contraband and Masquerade, which I think were mistakes.

With Masquerade, Farmlands and no point counter I'm not entirely certain of the scores, and think that trashing the Province must have cost me the game.  Seeing a chance to grab the final Farmland/Province, I take it, thinking things are unlikely to get better: I lose by a single point.  Sigh.



Game 7

Hamlet/Library is not something I've played often: it just doesn't seem to have come up.  (I lost one of my first Cornucopia games to Yaron when he spotted this strategy.)

I'm not sure what happened here.  I split Oases 6/4 in my favour, and gave out 6 Curses against only 3 received.  (Do you know of many other Sea Hag games where the Curses don't run out?)  Duchies are bought, and we 3-pile on those, Hamlets and Oases.

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