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1
Dominion General Discussion / Re: what's up with cursed gold
« on: January 18, 2018, 01:33:39 am »
i think it's a bit underplayed turn 1 at higher levels actually. If you're passing up playing cursed gold and not buying a 4+ cost trasher t1/t2 because of it, you're probably doing it wrong

2
That is a terminal Treasure Trove plus without the $2, but with single trashing.

I prefer to think of it as a bag of gold, followed by a lab, followed by a trade route where I use my extra buy to purchase a copper. I find this really helps me estimate the strength of the action I'm taking.

3
Dominion General Discussion / Re: $3 Cost Card Rankings Bottom Half
« on: January 11, 2018, 02:36:07 am »
I wouldn't put storeroom above any of the cards above it. Except maybe farmers market and oracle.

Maybe I haven't been burned by hexes enough times but I think Leprechaun is possibly the most underrated card here. It's pretty sweet in money payload games and in more engine based games the 7 card requirement is more achievable.

4
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Fool is a pity
« on: January 10, 2018, 12:28:22 pm »
Card comparison ("Village is just a two necropolises plus a smithy, minus the five hundred edge cases") always suck, but they especially suck when comparing to boons.

Take Warehouse. Warehouse is in your hand. This is -1 to your hand size before even having made the decision of whether or not to play warehouse. You don't get to choose not to have -1 card.

Lost in the Woods is optional. If you have 5 cards you like, you don't have to roll. So if you do get the warehouse-but-not-really-warehouse effect in the Wind's Gift, it's on the precondition that you had a card in your hand that you didn't mind pitching. This is a fundamentally different scenario and no amount of card comparisons can fix that. 

5
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The more I read the worse I get?
« on: January 07, 2018, 11:10:57 pm »
In fact lots of Dominion traffic has moved to discord (thus, not being here), despite it not sorting posts by how approved they are, and despite the presence there of both Awaclus and Chris is me.

That's likely very true by the number of comments and likely very false by the net number of frequent contributors, as discord tends to filter out more people than open forums/reddit. Feel free to correct me however as I have no plans of tracking the discord.

Either way my point was not to claim that Reddit is a good platform, merely one advantage it has over here (and discord).

6
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The more I read the worse I get?
« on: January 07, 2018, 07:58:34 pm »
I was thinking about writing up something on how I think many (with the main exception being those by Titandrake) Article's primary goals tend not to actually be educational content, but more of a springboard for internal F.DS debates. I think that would be an interesting topic which is relevant to the original purpose of this thread.

But thanks to the usual suspects + a surprise cameo by Donald, this thread has become a complete shitshow and I doubt splitting the thread would even save the topic at this point.

I don't want to fan the flames too hard but let me make one thing absolutely clear: The diversity of our forum participation IS suffering from the constant pedantry, the aggressive attitudes and the inconsequential debates consuming threads. I have plenty of dominion friends online and IRL who have as much when F.DS comes up. We may have high participation, but it's by an incredibly narrow set of users.

Perhaps this is why platforms such as Reddit dominate. Despite the numerous, numerous problems with the up-vote sorting system, it at least generally allows us to ignore this near-worthless content easily.

One last thing: We don't need to have either a strict, iron fist moderation policy with clear, unambiguous rules or a laissez-faire system. Theory is an amazing moderator, if too light handed for my tastes. Obviously it would be a ridiculous request for him to maintain every thread as on topic, but I trust Theory more than anyone to set some guidelines and then apply them when super necessary, or delegate it to someone else to do so
 

7
Rules Questions / Re: Charm + Inn
« on: December 11, 2017, 07:42:44 pm »
First, you'd have to make sure that when you played Charm that you chose to get the on-buy effect rather than the +$2 +Buy.

You buy the Inn. At this stage, you haven't gained the Inn, so its bottom-line effect doesn't trigger, but Charm's on-buy does.

You gain the Witch. It goes to your discard.

You finally gain the Inn you bought. It goes to your discard and its on-gain triggers, so you can shuffle in both the Witch and the Inn.

If you did it the other way around (buy the Witch, gain the Inn), then you'd only be able to shuffle the Inn into your deck, since you hadn't gained the Witch yet.

If the online game doesn't let you do that, then that sounds like a bug.

In the second scenario, what is dictating that the Witch gain happens after the Inn gain? Is it always reverse order of when remaining events were triggered?

8
Rules Questions / Charm + Inn
« on: December 11, 2017, 07:13:34 pm »
I buy an Inn with Charm in play for the on-buy effect.

In my head, step 1 is to resolve Charm's on-buy effect. Say I select Witch.
Do I then resolve Witch's on gain (e.g., going to discard) or Inn's? (going to discard + shuffle in cards). Can I shuffle in Witch?

To make this an actually relevant case we can say that Witch is embargoed so I have a real reason to not just buy Witch and gain Inn.

Also, I don't own cards on ShuffleIT but I believe no matter the order of buy/gain ShIT won't let me shuffle in the Witch, which would probably be a bug.

9
Dominion General Discussion / Re: "But it worked"
« on: December 01, 2017, 12:24:44 pm »
Quote
I mean sort of, but it's different for multiple reasons that matter

Well, in this case, it was being touted as a source of economy. The player described playing enough Barons and discarding enough Estates to make $22 and buy double Colonies. If the trashing, draw and extra actions was good enough to get that many Barons and Estates in hand and play them all, my guess is that the engine could have been a LOT more efficient and a lot faster to build. I mean, there had to be Platinums, right? 3xPlatinum, 1xGold, 1 Baron + 1 Estate also gets $22 and double colonies, but with 6 cards instead of 12, requiring buying a LOT fewer actions/draw cards

Now, if the game had Battlefield and another marginally useful $2 or some other indicators that would support a rush, especially if the engine was weak, maybe it makes sense, but it sure seems like an inefficient payload to me.


To even remotely consistently get 3x platinum, 1x gold (and a baron/estate) in hand you still need a boatload of draw cards, a boatload of platinums, and/or a boatload of trashing. Gainers generally don't get you platinum, but can gain you engine pieces + estates + baron...

The TLDR is I can see many more situations where I've drawn a bunch of cards and played baron to buy 2 colonies than where I've played a small amount of draw and played 18 value in coins.

10
Dominion Articles / Re: Self-Synergy
« on: November 14, 2017, 11:42:12 pm »
Well if it's not a meme...

To try and put it politely: what is the use case of this article? After taking it in the article and applying it's suggestions for a bunch of games, is there a kingdom + scenario where some player (of any rating of ones choosing) plays the game differently than he does without reading the article?

The article approaches things from a high level terminology standpoint and I don't see where someone isn't going to figure out "stacking [minions, city quarters, governors)" is good through simpler means than this article. It seems to be more about categorizing the concept than anything about applying or recognizing the concept. Since how good stacking is ends up being kingdom and case dependent anyways, it's not even clear that discussing that in a broad sense and not in a card specific sense would work in the first place.

And obviously, "will this help someone improve at the game" isn't necessarily the only metric for articles. But if it's about terminology and categorization, well, I thought we had a totally amazing lovely and productive discussion about this in another thread... if only I could remember that threads title.

Not every article has to be explicit advice. This article makes an implicit concept explicit. That in itself has value. Rather than just doing something you can know why you do it. Yeah self-synergy is pretty straightforward for some cards (Governor, Minion) or even printed on the card (Treasure Map, Fool's Gold), but sometimes it's a bit more subtle (Gear, Hunting Party). It also is a concept that provides a link between otherwise dissimilar cards.

And yes, all of this does have an effect on how you play, although it is subtle. It comes into effect when you're weighing two options; it might tip the scales ever so slightly in favor of the self-synergy (assuming you were previously unfamiliar with the concept).

Who was previously unfamiliar with the concept that you might want a bunch of one card?

11
Dominion Articles / Re: Self-Synergy
« on: November 14, 2017, 06:39:59 pm »
Well if it's not a meme...

To try and put it politely: what is the use case of this article? After taking it in the article and applying it's suggestions for a bunch of games, is there a kingdom + scenario where some player (of any rating of ones choosing) plays the game differently than he does without reading the article?

The article approaches things from a high level terminology standpoint and I don't see where someone isn't going to figure out "stacking [minions, city quarters, governors)" is good through simpler means than this article. It seems to be more about categorizing the concept than anything about applying or recognizing the concept. Since how good stacking is ends up being kingdom and case dependent anyways, it's not even clear that discussing that in a broad sense and not in a card specific sense would work in the first place.

And obviously, "will this help someone improve at the game" isn't necessarily the only metric for articles. But if it's about terminology and categorization, well, I thought we had a totally amazing lovely and productive discussion about this in another thread... if only I could remember that threads title.


12
Dominion Articles / Re: Self-Synergy
« on: November 14, 2017, 04:01:59 pm »
I might be OOTL but I'm not sure if this article (and the comments) are just memeing or not.

13
There's also no reason to assume the next shuffle will occur naturally -- you can always just buy another inn, and those actions will yet again avoid the "missing the shuffle" cost.

If youíve played the Actions you had set aside with the previous turnís Inn, they wonít be in the discard pile to set aside with the next Inn.

Right, I'm talking about Inn games with a larger deck and buying it the turn after.

14
There's also no reason to assume the next shuffle will occur naturally -- you can always just buy another inn, and those actions will yet again avoid the "missing the shuffle" cost.

15
Dominion: Nocturne Previews / Re: Another awful thread about nothing
« on: November 10, 2017, 04:09:14 am »
You have said that it's an additive benefit on its own, which it isn't.
It is an additive benefit within your turn, just like plays that net + or +buys are additive benefits within your turn.

But not on its own. It doesn't do anything on its own.

It cycles your deck on it's own! With 10 villages you get 10x the cycling power of one village!

I'm sorry I had to

16
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Asking for Undo
« on: November 08, 2017, 06:35:38 pm »
It should definitely be possible to request undos when information is revealed.  A common mistake is to play an action card (usually a cantrip) and then remember that you wanted to call a reserve from your tavern mat.  This, and other honest mistakes, should be undoable.

I put it to you thatóinstead of thatóthe Tavern mat prompts should be much more visible, rather than being hidden away in the log.

Look, we don't have to go past Smithy + Village to find a misclick that occurs with some regularity and is enough for me to want undos-even-with-info-reveal forever.

edit: and there are probably some interface things to be done to help in this case too, I know, but somehow I don't believe interface can solve all of the little mistakes people make. It would be great to someday in the future be proven wrong there.

I think that not having all these hurt feelings and blacklistings and people making these threads about undo etiquette is a much greater good than completely eliminating misclicks. So I don't care at all that no interface can completely eliminate misclicks. Let's try to minimize them, yes. But I don't think that's the number one most important thing.

I think the +50% average game time people would bring into ranked being paranoid about miss-clicks is far more harmful than any of that. People have a right to play reasonably slowly, of course, but there's no reason to structurally induce it.

17
Dominion Articles / Re: Dominion 101: What is an engine?
« on: October 18, 2017, 01:24:47 am »
I think we do lose a lot of heated yet inconsequential discussions.
But that's what makes f.ds fun!

Wait I just described FDS mafia...

18
Dominion Articles / Re: Dominion 101: What is an engine?
« on: October 17, 2017, 10:12:12 pm »
Civility aside, I think these kind of unproductive discussions are mostly a natural and inevitable conclusion on deciding to try and write about terminology.

I'm also convinced that the majority of time wasted with having "less exact" terminology is wasted by those who are adamant on defining a single set of terminology -- if we could all just live with messy terms that mean different things to different people, I don't think we lose that much ability to communicate and I think we do lose a lot of heated yet inconsequential discussions.

19
Dominion Articles / Re: Dominion 101: What is an engine?
« on: October 12, 2017, 05:38:09 am »
I'm going to disagree with the idea that an engine "typically" draws your entire deck each turn.  Often, perhaps.  But I don't think it's even 50% of engines.

It's way above 80% of engines and the remaining decks all have Goons, Fortune or cost reduction in them.

Is this differing play styles or differing definitions of engines? What percentage of total games would you guys say you end up drawing your deck each turn?

20
General Discussion / Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« on: October 10, 2017, 09:08:45 am »
Funny thing about bringing up Lord of the Rings... Tolkein was the one to argue that Beowulf should be considered "a good piece" and forced it into the English canon for being the first literary work of it's kind, valuing works for their contributions at their time of creation over their current enjoyment. And god does Beowulf suck to read.

The only problem with what you're saying is "wasn't that great to begin with". It was great. Then people built more upon it and it's become somewhat outdated. Maybe it's not great now. It doesn't retroactively erase the innovation or the feeling of the moment.

21
General Discussion / Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« on: October 10, 2017, 07:28:14 am »
Many great works have transcended their time period you know.

It's not a time period thing, it's a genre-defining thing. Blade runner helped define cyberpunk, and almost all cyberpunk in the 90s can be said to be influenced by it.

I can't really name anything from the 80s that held up better than Blade Runner... Neuromancer I guess? i personally was nonplussed by it. Akira if we're counting Japanese media (which we probably should, as it's cyberpunk)... but even then I feel like Akira is outclassed by the 90s contributions.


22
General Discussion / Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« on: October 09, 2017, 11:03:53 pm »
In prep for the new Blade Runner, I rewatched the old one. And well, the visuals hold up well. The rest of it? Not really. The plot very thin, Decker hardly has any character, and the theme of him feeling empathy for the replicants is undermined by the fact that after having sex with one, he then goes and murders a bunch of other replicants without a second thought.

I think you missed an important point here. There is no big reveal in the movie but there are clues to Decker also being a replicant. This changes the perspective of everything. This sci-fi theme has been explored elsewhere so perhaps it isn't as novel as it used to be but few movies explore the sci-fi so artfully.

The new movie expands on the themes, visuals and music in awesome ways (10/10). The plot is still a secondary consideration (6/10) and outside of the main character / maaaybbeee his love interest / Decker there's not particularly strong characters (5/10).

I would strongly recommend BR 2049 for any Scifi/cyberpunk fans though and would argue that KingZog3 suffered a bit from Seinfeld Is Unfunny and that's a bit less likely to be true for the new sequel.

23
Dominion General Discussion / Re: DS blog complaint
« on: October 02, 2017, 02:51:04 pm »
What is the benefit of creating content specifically for the blog, and not sharing it with the forum? Less people overall would get to see it.


24
I would like to see evidence of this--i.e. an example of it ever happening even once--before we let that guide the standards of the wiki.

I don't know of an example from the Dominion wiki, but here's an example from the Puella Magi Madoka Magica wiki. If it happens there, it can happen here.

http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Talk:Homura_Akemi#What.27s_going_on_with_the_edit_wars.3F.21

As a result, editing that page had to be disabled from users without special privileges.

Yea, but Homura objectively did everything wrong, and those that disagree are factually false.

both /s and offtopic

25
I would say it's fine to link or try and follow NPOV by phrasing strategy in terms such as "is widely considered" which are closer to the "objectively true" region of statements.

I believe wikieditors call that "weasel speak", i.e., statements that are hard to disprove (cf. falsifiability)

I don't think that's true in the context of measuring the value of things. "Considered one of the greatest (album, novel, movie) of all time" seems to be a common phrase

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