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Messages - Gazbag

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1
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 02, 2018, 05:39:29 pm »


Trying to something Renaissancy so uses Villagers and is a good tbf target as well as a tbf card itself. Originally it gave you a choice of Coffers or Villagers but that was kind of crazy (it cost $5 then though). The Villagers part seemed like the fun part so it's just Villagers now.

2
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 27, 2018, 12:28:56 pm »


5 Horses on top, 5 Paddocks below, like a standard split pile. If a Goat is allowed to be a Treasure then Horse is too! It also trashes things a bit like Goat. Horse might be able to get away with costing $2? I thought I'd play it safe but am open to changing it. At first I had Paddock revealing for treasures first before the +3 Cards, but I like it this way because it works with Wishing Well type things which is always fun. I didn't want the cards to specifically mention each other like a lot of split piles do.

3
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 25, 2018, 08:15:54 am »
Well this is a bit frustrating. My final submission for Excavation was a cost of $5, not $6. Also, the price is a reflection of Excavation's power, Refineries power and how hard it is to get Refinery. You seem to have attributed the cost merely to Excavation. No one would say Urchin is a poor card even though it's a weak $3 cost, because it can gain you the much more powerful card, Mercenary.
I thought the cost of the cards together was appropriate. I was just confused because people seemed to be acting like trashing 3 cards is strong by itself for $6, it was more of a tangential comment. I guess that didn't come across though so I apologise.
I mainly didn't find the blind trashing particularly compelling even though I understand (I think?) that it was intended to be a last resort option to try to get the Refinery. Refinery having to have the awkward wording because Capitalism messed it up was also unfortunate, I did like the concept behind Refinery though. It was a really close call and these things meant I couldn't justify putting it above some of the cards.

4
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 24, 2018, 07:49:36 pm »
I don't feel at all qualified to make a sound judgement here.

Avenue/Flower Seller: Oops I probably should have asked for people to say how many of the card there is, ah well. So my worry here is that with only 8/12 Flower Sellers available and Avenue giving 3 Flower Sellers at a time it seems pretty easy to hoard Flower Sellers, kind of like what you can do with Experiment sometimes. Adding more Flower Sellers just makes too many points available. I think the concept is great but maybe Avenue needs to be changed to make it work well.

Courier/Message: This one is nice and simple, I really like Message although I wonder whether a terminal Silver is the best thing to have paired with it. I guess it's a tiny bit like Flag Bearer where you're buying this terminal Silver for some temporary draw.

Demagogue/Assasin: This one is hard to evaluate for me, I appreciate that Demagogue isn't a great early game card so it isn't an auto-open. One thing that I find is worrying is that the Assassinator doesn't get their card back if the assassination fails so it's quite swingy, I wonder if it would be more fun if they got the card back if the Assassin whiffs but not if it hits? I'm also not sure this is great with 3+ players, it seems frustrating to have your Demagogue trashed by an opponent's Assassin that came from your other opponent's Demagogue. The flavour is great though.

Day Worker/Night Worker: I think Day Worker is a cool workshop variant and Night Worker is a clever way of getting actions into play for Day Worker although it is kind of similar to Ghost, although I praised Message which is basically Lab so I guess I can't criticise that. I wonder whether Night Worker needs to be gained to hand, although I guess it costs $5 so it probably does.

Architect/Redevelop: I like Architect, I guess if you just put +2 Cards on a base set card I'll probably like it... but I like how it can gain Silvers and also draws so the condition to get Redevelop makes sense. Redevelop is scary but it's quite hard to get so I guess it has to be, it also seems like the fun kind of scary to me.

Ox/Yoke of Oxen: I love the concept of a card that you can combine like this. Terminal +1 Card is generally frowned upon though and I think the card might be good enough without any +cards. It's not like Woodcutter for $4 is the worst thing ever and combining them seems like quite the upside.

Archaeologist/Excavation Piece: I like this apart from the weird scoring on Excavation Piece, I don't see why it can't just give a flat vp value. I'm not sure Excavation Piece needs to be a Treasure either really.

Factory/Worker: I like this one too, Bank was getting lonely as a building that's secretly a treasure. I like how the workers give your opponents some interesting decisions to make but they seem like a pretty hefty disadvantage so I wonder how often this is worth going for.

Oak/Acorn: This has some great flavour with the on-trash and the acorns growing more trees. It does seem really strong for $4 though. I think it really should cost $5, the Acorns gaining more Oaks I think is what pushes this over what a $4 should be allowed to do. It's such a delightful design though, I really love it!

Sail Boat/Passenger: I like this one a lot too, nice and clean design and seems like it opens up some interesting decisions, looks well balanced at first glance to me too. I guess you could say that it's playing it a bit safe, but really I don't see what's not to like.

Consorts/Royal Favour: This seems like a well balanced Throne+ with lots of decision making. The +1 Card on Royal Favour doesn't read too well but I understand why it's there, I'm kind of grasping to find criticisms here though.

Lunatic/Conjurator: Lunatic is pretty much Masquerade. Conjurator is double Necromancer. I don't know, with Lunatic being so similar to Masquerade and Conjurator just being better Necromancer I'm not sure this is doing much new? And Lunatic doesn't entice you to trash other Action cards either so I'm not sure it's the best fit really.

Plotter/Gunpowder Plot: I love the flavour here, although you should have to gather 11 Villagers, not 5. I didn't actually hate the +1 Card +1 Villager as much as others, saying that you have to play a Ruined Library 5 times is kind of not how it worked because Ruined Library doesn't give +1 Villager which can do things other than get you to Gunpowder Plot if you need it too. But this new version seems kind of bonkers for $3? Villagers are really powerful!

Superstitious Witch/Witch Bottle: This is cute, but I imagine it has a similar thing to Chariot Race but maybe even worse. You know, your opponent draws a Witch Bottle at the right moment and blocks all of your Curses and you don't and oops now I have 3 Curses which make it even harder to draw a Witch Bottle and then things spiral down from there and you're left questioning why you ever played this game. Just a personal bias of mine.

Treaty/Domain: I really like Treaty actually, a very nice little trasher to open with. Domain is maybe a bit too generous? I do like that it entices you to trash it to tie it back to Treaty though.

Painter/Painting: I'm not sure about this Ally thing, I did ask for a card not a card-shaped-thing. So it doesn't really fit what I was looking for, sorry.

Visionary/Vision: My gripe with this is that Visionary is kind of a non-card, like I'm not sure I can justify putting this ahead of the designs that have 2 interesting cards.

Manager/Intern:  I don't understand why this has a Debt cost +3 Cards +$3 seems like something that you'd open with every time to me. I like the idea of the card apart from that though.

Excavation/Refinery: I'm not sure why people are saying Excavation is strong, it seems kind of weak for a $6 to me. Well ignoring the Refinery part at least. I'm not a fan of the blind trashing part of Excavation, given your deck will probably be fairly built up by the time you can afford a $6 it seems like it'll backfire very often and Lookout is very unpopular for its semi-blind trashing so I think it's best to not do that kind of thing. The setting aside part of Refinery is unfortunate, thanks Capitalism.

Executioner/Gallows: I think this falls into the pitfall of doing too much at once. It can provide draw, Gold gaining, +Buy, +Villagers, Militia attack and Cursing all in one! The only thing it's really missing is trashing. Discarding your hand is a big cost of course, but it's not so bad early on given that Gallows is probably better than anything you could buy anyway and later on you might be able to start doing things with +$ giving Actions (like Gallows) where discarding your hand isn't so much of a big deal.

Spoiled Brat/Coal: I think it's on-record that I'm not a big fan of Knights at all? Sorry I know it's just my own personal bias but this is just not for me. I think posting cards that you think appeal specifically to the judge is an underrated aspect of this contest's metagame honestly.


It was really tough to decide a winner, I was torn between quite a few and it was painful to whittle down my list of top contenders.

The winner is Architect/Redevelop by Aquila. With Consorts/Royal Favour and Sail Boat/Passenger as the runners up (and a lot of others very close, you probably know who you are based on my comments).

5
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 23, 2018, 02:50:30 pm »
I'm a bit ill today so I'll do the judging tomorrow when I'll hopefully be better.

6
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 16, 2018, 05:33:21 pm »
Oh I wasn't expecting to win this, thanks for liking the card Asper!

Non-supply card
A new non-supply card and a card (or cards I suppose) that showcases that non-supply card. It could be something like Vampire/Bats  with 2 intertwined cards or something more like Spoils or Wishes, or something new and unique that I haven't thought of. It's strictly one non-supply card, so no Travellers and I'm also going to say no Heirloom/Shelters type things too.

If anything is unclear just shout at me and I'll try to explain better!

7
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: November 09, 2018, 01:06:47 pm »
Agreed that Nomad is kinda weak. Actually having reserves in the set kind of makes the "freeze from play" thing a bit less novel because all reserves remove themselves from your deck when you play them... I have this other thing, a Woodcutter that comes with a free frozen card.

I have done some solo testing games with Sanctum and it seemed pretty cumbersome and difficult to get much out of early but if you could set up some draw you can get some big trashes off, sort of like Cemetery or Mint, but you have to draw and play this do-nothing terminal first. So it can do powerful things, but you need to play around it and set it up, which I think is what you want dominion cards to be doing really.

I was thinking of trying Mountain Outpost a a $2 cost Smithy. The problem with the big version is that it isn't great at being deck-drawing engine draw because you can only call 2-3 per turn and also can only play them every other turn, but it's kind of ridiculous as big money draw.

These any better?


I also have this reserve-attack:

Cantrip-Militia but it isn't too easy to get back, I like that opponent's Archers as well as Reserves like Mountain Outpost or Spelunkers make this easier to discard from the mat.

8
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 08, 2018, 07:40:24 pm »


Just comparing this to Ghost Ship, the drawing is better, and the attack honestly seems better too.  Junking plus topdecking, even if it's weak topdecking, is brutal.  And it stacks. So if this is going to be a card I think it has to cost at least $5.  Maybe $6.

Agreed, it also seems like an absolute nightmare if you chain them too since it doesn't have a Sea Hag type discard thing. With it being a decent draw card it doesn't seem hard to chain either...


It's a Miscreant knight, the attack is similar to Knights but different, can't tell if it's stronger or weaker. Then if no one trashed an expensive card, you get an extra card.
I'm not sure having a trashing attack that's also draw is great for similar reasons, it seems really easy to set a deck that can play 3-4 of these per turn and decimate the other players decks. It doesn't even have any safety valve like all the other trashing attacks (Knights dying, Giant being slow and such). And it also attacks peoples hands too!

9
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 08, 2018, 02:36:12 pm »


It's like a Library because it's a book and it's an evil cursed book so it curses people and you need to read 4 pages to learn how to curse people. Because it's an attack that makes 5 types always available (action, treasure, victory, curse and attack).

10
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: November 07, 2018, 07:26:27 pm »
I've done a pretty big post-Renaissance update to the OP. Coffers have been made redundant and so are cut, some other cuts and tweaks some new cards, trying new frozen wording.

New cards:
Nomad
Sanctum
Lake Village
Periapt
Scrounger

Removed cards:
Igloo
Cargo Ship
Cabin
Mountain Village
Seer/Avalanche
Signalman/Beacons
Outrider/Wildnerness

Card tweaks:
Glacier changed
Mountain Outpost +4 to +5 Cards
Hunter changed "Game" to "Prey"

Here's a bonus card which I wasn't confident enough in to put it directly into the OP, does anyone actually understand what this card does? You'll need a magnifying glass first!


More to come soon!

11
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Reaction cards
« on: November 07, 2018, 10:45:14 am »
The only thing that's bothering me is those 2 Durations that seem like they don't really have to be there. I appreciate that they both involve setting cards aside for next turn to make it easier to remember to keep them out, but having a couple of random Durations hanging around seems like a bit of a vestige from the "complexity creep" of the more recent expansions.

12
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: October 22, 2018, 05:26:34 pm »


Obviously, Drawers are tokens that can be used for +1 card at any point during your turn.
Without wanting to diss your simple and good design, in my opinion Drawers are the most dubious of the three vanilla tokens as draw is something you rarely want to save. Early in the game cycling is very strong so the main strategic application of them is probably in the endgame, e.g. to set up a megaturn.

Getting non-terminal draw at the start of your next turn could often be better than terminal draw this turn.

13
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: October 21, 2018, 08:09:58 am »


Does this work with the rules of the game? Do unused actions disappear when you enter the buy phase?

I think it's too strong. I would price it at $7 even if it was just +2 Cards and +2 Actions, with no other bonuses.
I agree with this, currently the card kind of does everything you need for it giving draw and +buy (as well as a village of course) so I think it'd be more interesting if you had to put in a little more work to get some +buy. I like the idea of the card though.

14
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: October 17, 2018, 11:35:40 am »

I see some people thinking, isn't this an automatic buy for the first turns? Just don't play any until they're all gone. In 2 player games at least, if one player did this whilst the other builds up for later, by turn 6 they're 2 Provinces ahead. It'll be down to how often the building up for later is viable as to how interesting this is.
If it is a problem, increasing the base cost would make the Coppers more important.

The way I see it is taking Baths points over buying a good card for your deck early is almost never worth it, so I doubt going for these would be any better.

15
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: October 16, 2018, 07:50:54 pm »
Hmm this was going to be my entrant this week but it looks like faust beat me to it with the Artifact thing. I also get the feeling that people will prefer faust's anyway because this is kind of a lazy design...
 

I'll use this instead because it maybe has some shock-factor:

16
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« on: October 06, 2018, 02:13:52 pm »
No, Militia can't lock you out of the game. Maybe Militia+some other combination of cards can, but just Militia can't lock you out of the game.
You mean Miltia plus Witch? Like Followers, the card I actually talked about? That card can indeed lock you out of the game or make it very unpleasant in some Kingdoms. Doesn't mean that it is broken though.

Quote
This is not fun and is also not a necessary part of the card, even if it had the most obscene requirement to obtain the Banshee locking people out the game is never fun and so we don't have to look at Marsh to conclude that that effect on Banshee is a bad idea. To reiterate, it isn't a case of it being too powerful, it's a case of it being un-fun and easily fixed without changing the concept of the card.
I think that Cultist games are unfun because it is so ridiculously overpowered and junks quicker than anything else.
I think that a 5/2 opeining in a Kingdom with e.g. Mountebank and Monastery is unfun as the game is already over before it started.
Dominion has, like every game, numerous issues and in my limited experience with two Debt attacks (Asper's Scribe and my Blackmail) I did not find them to be game-breaking.

About partial analysis, about ignoring one part of the pair, I already said everything about why you cannot do that. It'd be like looking at Mercenary and concluding that a card that draws, yields Coins, trashes and Militias is totally bonkers while ignoring the path towards that very non-Supply card.
Mercenaries would be ridiculous as a Kingdom card. But it works as a non-Supply card as you have to jump through some hoops to get it. Unconditional Debt attacks are something you shouldn't do or at least be careful about. Here the condition of handing out the Debt is that you previously helped the opponents to thin.


If attacks are stronger in 3+ player games anyway then how is having the non-attack part of the card get stronger with more players a good idea?
Tell that to Pirate Ship and Jester, why don't they just target one player? Why is Pirate Ship so risky in 2P and so safe in 4P? Why can you only gain one card with Jester in 2P yet three cards in 4P?
Why is Ambassador a net trasher in a 2P game yet a net junker in a 4P game (assuming for the sake of simplicity that every plays has an equal amount of Ambassadors)?
I don't see anybody here ripping apart such official Attack cards whose power and behaviour varies significantly with increasing player count.

Does the card really get ruined if that part is just changed to a flat +1 or 2 Coffers?
No, here I am totally with you. As I already said in the post you replied to, I think that an unconditional +1 Coffers is good as it gets rid of "Coin spread" issues

Militia+Witch or Followers don't lock you out of the game. More debt than it's possible for you to pay off or old Masquerade+Royal Carriage lock you out of the game.

Mountebank, Cultist and Followers have all got to be among the most hated cards in Dominion so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? I think all those cards suck, if someone posted them here and they weren't already official cards I'd tell them that I think they're overpowered in an opressive, boring way.

Mercenary doesn't do anything that can intrinsically lead to stalemates, it's totally different to (old) Banshee. I'll reiterate again becasause you haven't seemed to realise yet: it wasn't about powerlevel, it was an intrinsically broken mechanic.

Pirate Ship and Jester are both really weak in 2 player games (yes even Jester) that is a pretty big flaw with those cards. People tend not to vocally hate weak cards though because they tend to stifle diverse strategies less than overpowered cards. It doesn't mean they aren't heavily flawed cards though. Ambassador is also a really messed up card, it adds about 10 turns of nothing to 2 player games and makes 3+ player games these endless slogs... We should use the old cards from back when Donald X didn't know better to learn and make our designs better. Have you noticed that all of the newer expansions feature generally weaker attacks than old ones with none of these issues?

17
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« on: October 06, 2018, 09:03:48 am »
They weren't saying it was overpowered though, locking people out of games and scaling poorly with multiple players aren't necessarily problems associated with power level.
Followers junks and Miltias and can totally lock you out of the game. Doesn't mean that the card is bad though. Non-Supply card can and actually are often wacky, they can get away with stuff that Kingdom cards cannot. So where better to do something dubious like a Debt attack? I have junk with a Debt attack that is offset by the junker handing out that thing being part of a split pile with a trasher on top. Asper has a Debt attack that is conditional on buying. A non-Supply Debt attack is just another way to tackle this tricky issue.

My point is that you cannot analyze a non-Supply card while ignoring the Kingdom card that grants you access to it. I'd e.g. rather worry about Marsh being too strong for the other players than about Banshee being too strong.
You are thin while they aren't so you should have an easy time to deal with some Debt attacks.

I also don't buy the scaling argument as Dominion is a game that plays differently with 2 than with 3 than with 4. Offical Attacks behave differently with different player count. Pirate Ship in a particular Kingdom might be obvious nonsense in a 2P game yet mandatory in the very same Kingdom in a 4P game.
Also, nearly all Attacks are better in multiplayer games for the very simple reason that you get attacked on average n-1 times with n being the number of players. Also, the junk pool is scaled to the number of total attacks, not the number of junk cards a player gets on average. And so on.

I'd agree though that a more moderate version of the card PAIR, e.g. something like Marsh only allowing the opponents to trash 1 card and Banshee only handing out 1 Debt might be better. But it is hard to evaluate this without playing.
The current version could lead to a too huge "Coin spread" so another solution would be to fix it at +1 Coffers. Thus the "Coin spread" (you get 1, they lose 2) is equivalent to that of Cutpurse (you get 2, they lose 1).

No, Militia can't lock you out of the game. Maybe Militia+some other combination of cards can, but just Militia can't lock you out of the game. Banshee (the version that had no limit on the debt) could lock people out of the game by giving them more Debt than it's possible for them to pay off. This is not fun and is also not a necessary part of the card, even if it had the most obscene requirement to obtain the Banshee locking people out the game is never fun and so we don't have to look at Marsh to conclude that that effect on Banshee is a bad idea. To reiterate, it isn't a case of it being too powerful, it's a case of it being un-fun and easily fixed without changing the concept of the card.

If attacks are stronger in 3+ player games anyway then how is having the non-attack part of the card get stronger with more players a good idea? Does the card really get ruined if that part is just changed to a flat +1 or 2 Coffers?

18
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fly-Eagles-Fly's fan cards
« on: October 06, 2018, 08:18:21 am »
Two major problems with Banshee:
1. There's a reason that no official Attack card both stacks infinitely and directly harms opponents' turns. Play enough Banshees, and you lock everybody else out of the game.
You are aware that Marsh helps the opponents, right?

Did I mention Marsh? No, I did not. Banshee is the card I'm talking about.
Ignoring Marsh while talking about Banshee being supposedly overpowered is like ignoring Urchin while talking about Mercenary being supposedly overpowered.

They weren't saying it was overpowered though, locking people out of games and scaling poorly with multiple players aren't necessarily problems associated with power level.

19
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: October 05, 2018, 12:29:23 pm »


I couldn't figure out how to make the image fit, so her head it cut off.  But you get the idea.

Isn't this pretty much Moneylender but better?

20
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« on: October 04, 2018, 05:39:39 pm »
I don't really see how this kind of interaction isn't a good thing. Noticing things like this makes you feel clever and is part of the fun of the game, to me at least. It's not like getting an extra $1 on your Lab is particularly broken anyway?

21
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: September 28, 2018, 03:37:30 am »
You can shave off two more words too , revealing them.  :)

No, you need to have those words there, see Shepherd. You discard the cards all at once, and your opponent can't sort through your discard pile to confirm you didn't cheat.

Ah makes sence

Well the new Silos project just says "revealed" so I guess 1 word could be shaved off now with that wording.

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: September 27, 2018, 06:54:29 pm »
I think this just scrapes through at 12 words ignoring the numbers? Sorry if I can't count/misunderstood something. 12 words is really tight... it's a good challenge!

Quote
Wine Cellar
+2 Cards
Discard any number of Treasures, revealing them. +1 Action per Treasure discarded.
Action
Cost:$4

23
Tournaments and Events / Re: Renaissance: The Tournament
« on: September 23, 2018, 02:50:47 am »
In

24
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: September 10, 2018, 12:40:59 pm »
Moving cards from play back to your deck is a very dangerous ability, you don't really need anything too uncommon to make infinite loops. E.g. Somewhat more straightforward Mastermind and a couple of Peddlers can produce unlimited +Buy and +$ after deck is drawn. So you need to at least stop Mastermind from putting Masterminds on the bottom of your deck.

I wouldn't worry too much about an attack being bad vs Moat or Lighthouse/Guardian. That's just 3 cards out of all the dominion cards and also most attacks are weak if they're being blocked, that's kind of the point of Moat/Lighthouse?

25
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: August 29, 2018, 03:40:27 am »
To address the questions in the second paragraph, yes I think it can make sense to buy Dismantle after the open, although I'd note that Dismantle at its best when you want to open with it and when it's good late too, when Dismantle is good later as well as in the opening it could make sense to open Dismantle over Gallows, even though you'd rather have Gallows on turn 3 and not gain the Copper.
We are talking about a stupid border case anyway. If the Kingdom enables an engine it is very likely that other trashers are present (if there aren't Dismantle has to be the better card due to the ability to trash Coppers!) and in this instance it is unlikely that either Gallows or Dismantle will be bought. So the mid turn gaining of Dismantle is most of the times irrelevant.

An engine with other trashing sounds like one of the better places for Dismantle, if there's no other way of gaining cards.

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