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Messages - Commodore Chuckles

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Card alchemy revelation....
« on: May 19, 2018, 08:40:39 am »
For those who would gripe that my previous solution would only get "Royal Carryage", here's a solution in text that goes the whole way:
(1) Royal Blacksmith - Smithy - Black Market + Market = Royal - y
(2) Caravan - Avanto + Storyteller - Fortune Teller + Fortune = Car + Sry
(3) Imp - Bandit Camp + Bandit + Cache - Duchess + Duke = I - Ss + Ke
(4) Baker - Baron + Conquest - Quest - Charm + Harem = Ke + E
(5) Warehouse - War - Counting House + Count = E - Ing
(6) Scouting Party - Scout - Hunting Party + Hunting Grounds = Ing + Grounds
(7) Groundskeeper - Keep - Raider + Raid = Grounds

Now notice that (1) + (2) + (3) + Sage = Royal Carriage + Ke, and Ke = (4) - (5) - (6) + (7). So putting it all together,

Royal Blacksmith - Smithy - Black Market + Market + Caravan - Avanto + Storyteller - Fortune Teller + Fortune + Imp - Bandit Camp + Bandit + Cache - Duchess + Duke - Baker + Baron - Conquest + Quest + Charm - Harem + Warehouse - War - Counting House + Count + Scouting Party - Scout - Hunting Party + Hunting Grounds - Groundskeeper + Keep + Raider - Raid + Sage = Royal Carriage

I'm so glad we have threads like this.

My opponents hate playing with Rats but I love them to the point of irrationality. I usually waste extra buys on Copper to keep them from eating my deck but on a board where my opponents went for a moneyish strategy I double-embargoed the Province pile right away. It slowed them down and provided free rat food on a board without extra buys.

Was this supposed to go in Dominion Confessions?

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Favorite Expansions in 2018
« on: May 16, 2018, 01:59:34 pm »
Then there is still Counting House, Trade Route etc..

That's a super weak card and a super strong card that do completely different things, I'm having a hard time knowing what the "etc" is supposed to be.

This is tiresome.  A card is not “super strong” if it’s correct to gain it in fewer than 20% of the kingdoms it appears in.

doesn't take into account a scenario in which a card is only very slightly weaker than many other similar cards (e.g. Walled Village), in which case the card in question is not gained in many kingdoms because a slightly stronger card is gained instead

Trade Route is not "slightly" weaker than other $3 trashers. It is way, way weaker than most of them. Even if it's the only trasher, it's a waste of time if terminal space is tight but you still have decent draw.

Game Reports / Re: the funniest game in the whole entire world
« on: May 15, 2018, 07:56:48 pm »
It's also funny that Ratty got 5/2 and got Chapel... on his 5 turn.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Mixed bag of cards
« on: May 15, 2018, 07:51:32 pm »
Cottage: Eh, it's cute I guess. It does feel a bit too similar to Shepherd and Fugitive, but it's neat that it can't totally dud the way Shepherd can.

Scrounger: I dunno, I think this seems really bad. It has the same empty-discard problem as Harbinger, but it's exacerbated by the fact that +3 cards makes it easy to draw your deck (though still a weak ability for the price.)

Reallocate: I like it! An easier-to-use Develop, sort of. I imagine the downgrade part allows all sorts of tricks.

Witch's House: This one is so cool I actually wish it were real. I don't think the cursing part will be too luck-based because you won't likely reveal your Potion much more than once per turn unless you buy more than one. And the art is also awesome.

Sellsword: I had a similar idea, based more around Ambassador and Bureaucrat:

Action - Attack - $3
Reveal a card from your hand and trash from your hand up to 2 copies of the revealed card. Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand reveals a copy of the card from their hand and top decks it or reveals a hand with no copies of the card.

With this card, it's more likely to hurt if you trash a junk card. This card also lets you try to guess what's in your opponent's hand and reveal a card without trashing anything. Though with your version it's cool that the attack is so well-integrated with the trashing.

Giant Spider: So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you won't be able to actually steal any cards you trash unless the other guy also Spiders you. Webbing isn't in the supply, right? The Webbings are only given to the other guy, so the trashing and gaining will both be one-sided unless the other guy reciprocates. I don't know, this seems very similar to Rogue, but harder to use.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« on: May 13, 2018, 12:09:02 pm »
And how is an Heirloom less convoluted than putting it in your fist at startup?

Maybe not less convoluted, but more intuitive. Having to use tokens from a specific set just feels unnecessarily roundabout. Also, I agree with Gendo that the OP version mostly just seems boring. So, you get to choose what bonus the cantrip gives you, meh. Choosing from cards that are completely different from each other opens up all kinds of possibilities.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card idea: Errand Boy
« on: May 09, 2018, 08:16:40 pm »
How does the "secret" part work? Does everyone hold their chosen token in their fist and then reveal them all at the same time? Eventually they'll have to actually put the tokens on the pile, right?

I like the idea of secret choices being made at the beginning that are only revealed when the game starts, but this seems like a weird and convoluted way to do it. My idea is for each player to secretly choose an Heirloom-like card to replace one of their starting Coppers and that's only revealed when they play it (or when they have to reveal their hand for Bureaucrat etc.)

I wish I could say I did this, but it was my opponent:

Z plays a King's Court.
Z plays a Gladiator.
Z reveals a Gold.
Z trashes a Gladiator.
Z plays a Gladiator again.
Z reveals a Gold.
Z trashes a Gladiator.
Z plays a Gladiator a third time.
Z reveals a Gold.
Z trashes a Gladiator.
Z plays a Silver, 2 Coppers and a Gold.
Z buys a Fortune.
Z takes 8 debt.
Z gains a Fortune.
Z gains a Gold.
Z repays 8 debt.

Somewhat amusingly, I actually won this game, but only because I was the first to hit the Provinces: I bought 3, then he bought 3, then I got the last 2.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Industrialization
« on: May 09, 2018, 04:56:57 pm »
I'm skeptical of the idea of having zero $4 or $5 cards and only one $3. What are you going to do if you're only playing with cards from this set? You'll have to buy a ton of Silvers and muck about for a long time with the cheap cards until you can afford the expensive ones. About the cards themselves:

Theater: The thing is, if you're playing full random, this card doesn't do a better job of "solving" problems like missing +Buy than any other card with +Buy, because the odds of the card itself appearing are just as high as those other cards. If you're purposefully designing the kingdom... well, then you'll always include +Buy if you hate kingdoms without it, so this card isn't helpful there either. I have to admit that I'm drawn to this idea, but the card is so text-filled and full of rules questions (like what does it mean for a card to "give" +2 Cards? Ironmonger can "give" +2 Cards if turns over a Victory card) that I feel like it's not worth it. Case in point: it took me forever to figure out that the "trash your own cards" clause was paralleling the other vanilla bonus cards; I had no idea what it meant at first because it was written so confusingly.

Infantry: Very cool idea! My one reservation with this is that an easily chained attack that virtually never runs out of junk might be too brutal, but maybe the high cost offsets that.

Hospital: Ridiculously swingy. Trashing is incredibly crucial in Dominion, so the time you happen to draw it will be pretty game-deciding. This could work if it were instead on-gain, overpay, or an event.

Artillery: I know this is really expensive, but choosing a card from the other guy's hand to discard will often shut them down completely if you can play it every turn. I think Pillage's one-shot thing might be the only way to do this.

Observatory: If you're drawing anything at all, the 5 cards on top will be this turn, not next turn. If you want this to set up a turn, you could have it set up this turn by discarding your hand, then looking through your deck for 5 card for your new hand. Though that might be too good, too finicky, or both.

Oil Refinery: So can you put +Card on Treasures, or did you mean to limit this to action cards? We know it's possible to put +Card on Treasures because of Encampment, but it's still weird and I don't know if it's what you meant to allow. Also, this is swingy in a way similar to Hospital. Sucks for you if you happen to draw it at the very end.


The cantrip one is too weak of a penalty, I think. Many people have pointed out that the main reason Curses are bad is not the -VP but what they do to your deck. This is why Ruins are so devastating even though they don't give -VP and actually give you something when played (though the net effect of Ruined Library and Village is to actually take away something.) Also note that Misery is a pretty weak attack that usually doesn't make a difference in the end. I'd be more than happy to get a quintuple Miserable in exchange for a ridiculously powerful card that will let me empty the Provinces in a single turn.

The other one looks interesting. One thing to note is that the Smog cards are ones that generally let you draw your whole deck easily, so that makes it easier to play all your Smogs and trash them all except one. You'll need a lot of +actions to do that, though, so maybe it's still a fair penalty.

The cheap cards: It's cool that you're trying to come up with some balanced $1 cards; I've also been thinking about what a balanced $1 card would be able to do. Do you really need so many of them, though? I guess this comes back to what I said in the beginning, about how I think you need fewer ultra-cheap and ultra-expensive cards and more ones in the middle.

I just ended a game with 9 Triumphal Arch points... from 3 Wishes.

It was a Witch slog game, and I couldn't activate my Lamp until one turn before the end.

Did you win the game?


Because of the Arch points?

I... don't think so. It was only a semi-interesting moment.

I just ended a game with 9 Triumphal Arch points... from 3 Wishes.

It was a Witch slog game, and I couldn't activate my Lamp until one turn before the end.

Did you win the game?


I just ended a game with 9 Triumphal Arch points... from 3 Wishes.

It was a Witch slog game, and I couldn't activate my Lamp until one turn before the end.

I was playing an IRL 4-player game about 2 years ago. I don't remember the exact details, but I calculated my chances of getting as unlucky as I did to be 1/660.

The other players build huge engines and I got frustrated, trying to keep it in. Since I was so far behind, I figured my only chance was to 3-pile and have them somehow not realize. They didn't green, and I kept thinking they'd go off any minute and demolish the Colonies (they had already built up to double-colony each turn.)

I was winning 10-0-0-0 on my turn with 2 piles empty and one Platinum left, and I had enough to buy the Platinum. I bought it, and was like "Okay it's over gg everyone count up points." This caused an uproar and everyone else "asked" for an undo...

Undo request was denied.

I wish. They proceeded to do their turns over and buy all the colonies.

Lol feels bad man. But who really won that game? In the end, for all it actually matters, who really won?

Good point; if there were some actual universal thing that tracks the wins and losses of all games, then it would have recorded a win for teamlyle, after which it would have recorded a new game played as a variant where everyone starts with a bunch of stuff in their deck already, with a different winner of that variant game.

I think in situations like this you can just score it as victory inside your own head and let them have their fun redoing it.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Seprix's Card Creation Emporium
« on: May 01, 2018, 06:31:55 pm »
Easily fixable by calling it a victory-treasure instead of using the curse type. Since I first started playing Dominion, I never understood why Curses needed their own type. I always thought they should be considered victory cards which happened to give negative VP.

I think the reason was that victory cards give bonuses to e.g. Ironmonger, and Donald wanted Curse to be something that's always bad. Curse can still be good with things that care about diversity, but the bonus-from-victory-types interaction is something that particularly goes against the spirit of the card.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Data Mining: Card Impact Factor
« on: April 29, 2018, 12:59:43 pm »
This data predates Adventures, so cards only go up to Guilds.

More importantly than cards only going up to Guilds, the data was collected back when everyone sucked at the game.

And the proof is that there are cards lower than Scout.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: To Those Who Deny Undo Steps Online
« on: April 29, 2018, 12:51:30 pm »
I don’t get this at all personally. I would see allowing an undo as being very gracious and sportsman-like, but to a degree above what I think should be minimally expected of people. I think someone is fully within their rights to deny an undo, and that such an act is not poor sportsmanship or rude; it is simply a lack of excessively good sportsmanship.
Well, not that I expect other people to grant undos, but then I don't want to play with them.

On the subject: Sometimes things might just be misunderstandings. I just played someone who played an Avanto and requested undo afterwards. I denied, thinking they wanted to not play Avanto once he drew a hand of no Saunas, but they clarified that they just mistakenly clicked "End Actions" (which I don't think there is a way for me to realize?), so then I gave them the undo. Without the talking it might have been a case where both think the other was being a jerk.

But see that's exactly what I'm talking about. It is not your job or responsibility to police other players and decide which undos they do and don't deserve. Just grant it. If they're requesting one to give them an unfair advantage, that's on them. Is it your privilege to deny? Sure, but it's also a bad attitude and that's what I want to see change in this community.
What? So your suggestion is that if someone undoes every Wishing Well wish to guess the right card, it would be bad attitude for me to deny that?

Yeah, basically. The issue here isn't what he was doing, it's that you're worrying about why he's asking for it in the first place. If you have a healthy attitude about the game, a productive one toward cultivating skill and personal growth, then you understand it's just not your place to differentiate. Let him worry about why he wants the undo and what that means for the game. You focus on you.

Abetting other players' cheating by deciding not to care isn't exactly a healthy attitude. It encourages such players to keep asking for malicious undos. This has a detrimental effect on everyone who plays those players in the future.

And if the point is to make things more fun, letting an opponent undo a misclick or mistake from rules confusion can do that, but letting your opponent cheat probably won't.

My philosophy is, give them the undo if it's something you'd give them in a casual real-life game. In my IRL games, doing something like playing a card and then saying, "No, wait, I don't want to do that" happens all the time.

Donate + Outpost
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet. Donate tells you to discard everything and draw 5 cards, so if you play Outpost before you buy it you'll start your Outpost turn with 5 cards.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What is the best knight to inherit?
« on: April 26, 2018, 03:48:17 pm »
Okay, so I'm going to put aside the cost and randomness problems and just answer this as: Which ability would you most want  your Estates to have?

Bailey, by a country mile.

Not only will it not take up space, but being able to chain that many Knight attacks together will absolutely annihilate the other guy's deck.

Molly and Destry would be a distant second and third, respectively, useful only if there's no other villages or draw, again respectively.

It's hard to see why Natalie would be a good idea. You don't normally want your deck full of weak terminal gainers. I guess it's a neat interaction with Gardens or Silk Road: Not only can you get more Estates, but there would have to be cost reduction so you'd also be able to get Gardens and Silk Roads with your Natalies. So that niche use would put Natalie in fourth place.

The others are absolute garbage things to inherit, only good for screwing around in Lord Rattington games.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: A quick Temple tip
« on: April 19, 2018, 04:58:16 pm »
Does any mathsy person know what would happen if I tried to divide by Potion?
Simple: ($6 + 2P)/P = 2 with remainder $6. In other words, if you have $6 and 2 Potions, you can buy 2 Transmutes and still have $6 leftover.

Except my point is that you also need the buys: ($6 + 2P + 1 buy)/(P + buy) = 1 with remainder $6 + P. In other words, if you have $6 and 2 Potions, but only 1 buy, you can only buy one Transmute.

But on a coins-provided-per-cost basis how does Philosophers Stone compare to Silver??

We might need to use imaginary numbers for this. So 1/P = -P?

Dominion General Discussion / Re: A quick Temple tip
« on: April 18, 2018, 01:55:19 pm »
But you can divide by arbitrarily small numbers tending down to zero."

Or up to zero, where your result will tend towards minus infinity (meaning it would be infinitely worse than all other Treasure Cards not costing zero). That's the reason you cannot divide by a number tending towards zero without spesifying the direction, and also the reason why dividing by zero would make no sense. Luckily it's prohibited. Remember that the coin cost of Copper is as close to -1 as to 1.

Cards can't cost less than zero, though, so at least in the context of Dominion, 1/0 only gives one answer.

Game Reports / Re: Dear My Opponent: I am Sorry
« on: April 14, 2018, 10:32:05 am »
Just had a game where I got King's Court and Witch from the Black Market. I gave him all 10 Curses within 4 turns. He was making some bad choices, but man, I still felt bad for him. I also got Ghost Ship from the BM, as if that wasn't bad enough. At least the game was over fast.

Black Market is hard to implement, not hard to implement in a digital format.
How so?

Have you ever tried playing with it IRL?

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Would you trash an estate worth 2VP?
« on: April 11, 2018, 01:24:10 pm »
But would you trash your Coppers if they were each worth 1.5 VP?

Such a question is surely a Fountain of interesting discussion.

But yeah, you should probably still trash them.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Which Removed Cards Do You Use IRL?
« on: April 10, 2018, 01:55:34 pm »
Also, Counting House makes your coppers better, though in a different way and in different situations than Coppersmith. Bank makes your coppers better just as well as Coppersmith, although it also makes all your other treasures worth $1 more each (effectively). You can King's Court your Coppersmiths where you can only Crown your Banks, but you'll have a tough time finding that I care about that difference. Bank doesn't say "the meek shall inherit the earth" or whatever the same way Coppersmith does. Meh.

So I'm down to being sad about approximately 0 out of 12 cards. Only Tribute and Secret Chamber are still even considerations, and... yeah, no, I just don't care.

Wow, you're totally right about Bank; I hadn't even thought of that. That definitely makes me feel better about losing Coppersmith.

Storeroom is a perfect replacement for Secret Chamber, so I don't care about that.

Tribute was unique, but I never found it fun anyway.

Actually I think the one card I'm finding myself missing now is Thief. Bandit just trashes instead of outright stealing, so it doesn't feel the same. Noble Brigand steals, but only Silvers and Golds which is boring. What made Thief cool was the tiny fraction of games where there were alt-treasures worth stealing. Rogue can steal anything, but it does so slowly and often doesn't work, so, yeah, Thief was special.

Storyteller and Necromancer also.

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