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Messages - SpaceAnemone

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Well Space if you get back plz hold potential hammer lif needed until after VC. I got something but Iím on phone right now. Not crazy detrimental but it could help.

I'm home now. In desperate need of sleep, so the plan is to turn off my computer before 18.00 forum time.

Reading on my phone on a too-small screen risking car sickness to catch up but realising it may not really be necessary if that might have been a hammer. Will come back to it in an hour or two once I'm home if the day's still going.

Maybe I've been too careless, but I thought that given I'm the titular character, which I left a breadcrumb for early on, then I was going to be able to IC myself without too much difficulty. My power itself is pretty useless, so I kind of took the pseudo-IC-ness to be a useful part of my role. I don't think I'd have had the confidence to do stuff like attempt to dictate the order that claims should go in if I wasn't feeling that I've been pretty darn townie :-P

In response to a few things Galz has said:
Deadlines: have been painful for me this game, because I'm entirely a night owl. I wake around 9am typically (on a weekday; later on a weekend given the chance), but I'm not functional till later in the day, so thinking to check in is rare unless I'm so invested that it actually negatively impacts my sleep so that I wake early and have to suffer the rest of the day tired, which I hate, so I try to avoid needing to do that. Usually I'm here around 10pm-midnight, though at times like now it gets later than that.

D1: I was legitimately busy and not really engaging with a lot, and I struggle with D1s more than later play anyway. You may well be right that I didn't engage with Swan or EFHW, but did I really engage with all of other players that much more?

I don't recall exactly when my suspicions of Galz happened, but my notes from D2 say "Swan hasn't been complaining about/being suspicious of Galz. I think that means both he and Galz are scum." Coming from that standpoint, his claim to have "found" a way by reading Morgrim that meant that he thought he had a strong silver case, while not reading the same amount into anything I was saying really did feel off. I mean, I'm using the past tense here only because I can't see Farah not being in the game, and I do think the claimed protective role makes a lot of sense with the number of possible deaths. Otherwise, I think it's a terrible idea to base pretty much an entire case off someone else's careless posts, and then not at least pause to reconsider when that person failed to show up. To me it just looked too much like Morgrim (my scum read from D1) and Galz were colluding to mislynch silver. Sorry if you see it differently, but that was my honest read of the situation.

Galz's re-read of my does rather miss the point that I didn't collaborate lynch the actual townie I thought wasn't super-scummy, and did correctly lynch the third-party person who even the mafia (and whatever traitors etc we have) couldn't have known wasn't town, so my actions were pro-town.

As for the no-lynch, I took my eye off the ball there. Nobody was posting about how close the deadline was.. I'd posted early in the day from work, and then there had only been about 20 posts from the rest of you the whole day before I came back in here late at night. I still had a lot of questions about how the various roles could work (like whether EFHW could target gkreig to find out if he was secretly female and therefore our Bart candidate), and I just hadn't noticed when I went to bed that I wasn't going to get a chance to digest the answers to those questions and move my vote. It was 11am my time, but it was a weekend, and I was sorely in need of some sleep and relaxation after a very heavy week, so I didn't even set an alarm. I was quite miffed when I realised it was a no-lynch given that I was sitting on a perfectly good lynch target all the way through, but I got over it by the time we started D4.

Last thing before sleep: the silver breadcrumb. I don't know why he didn't breadcrumb me D1, but it's not the most un-silver-like thing to realise he'd not played optimally, to regret that, and then to broadcast the correct way to play back into the game, like him schooling us all on what he should have done! That was my internal explanation for it during D2, especially after his obvious crumb was exposed. That breadcrumb is just so much exactly what he said he'd do, and so obviously deliberate in retrospect. So even if you think I might be scummy, why are you ignoring what conf!town!silver did? I mean, yes, there might be redirects in play -- and there needs to be something like that to explain the masons' weird results -- but if you're letting Swan off the hook for that, then also consider that silver may have breadcrumbed someone else D1 and been redirected onto me, but nobody else is claiming to have been targeted, and he's still alive, meaning that it should still make you consider that he targeted me, since scum trying to make up that they'd received a WV when there was only a low chance of it having happened seems far-fetched, especially so early in the game, and especially if that scum is me, who you know is a don't-take-risks sort of scum player at best.

Forum Games / Re: Vacation/Limited Access announcements
« on: October 11, 2018, 01:33:47 pm »
Possibly totally VLA Sat 13th-Sun 14th Oct for a road trip to Belgium.

Hi all! I'm busy tonight hosting a games night (yay, Haddock's coming!), then tomorrow night I have a leaving do for a colleague, and then Sat-Sun I'm properly VLA because my a cappella group has a gig in Bruges, so we're doing an overnight trip to the continent, which is somewhat nuts, and means I'll be computerless. That means time is limited :-(

@Galz, you asked for a VC highlighting places where I disagree with the main VC, I think. I can't do that because my script doesn't parse out anything to do with the main VC. I can do a post that is every voting state through the game as it would have been counted if there were no behind-the-scenes shenanigans, though -- does that suit your needs at all?

I've also just done a re-read of EFHW. She's certainly very good if she is scum, and she and Swan haven't been afraid to engage with each other in-thread. Calling WCD town rather than third-faction is a bit of a snag there, though.

I feel like she pretty much has to be scum through PoE, but if not, she's really not the first person I'd be looking at.

I've been doing a bit of re-reading and trying to piece things together.

One partially-formed theory: what if the fact that iguana had made such a big deal of "roles that need other roles to activate them" had led scum to believe that he was signalling traitor, and asking to be targeted by the NK to recruit him? That would explain his lack of breadcrumb, and would mean that Ash is the one who'd died by other means, so bodyguarding sounds likely there. Someone already pointed out that Galz would be a likely person for him to have protected.

I was also playing around with a second part to my ideas about how N1 played out that had a bunch of scum-driven redirects, but I don't think it holds up. Before I remembered about Ash's bodyguard ability, I'd wondered whether gkrieg's missing shot had been redirected onto him, the masons' cop shot had been redirected onto a non-universe-aligned person, and silver's WV shot had been redirected onto me from someone he actually left a plausible breadcrumb for. However, that all seems rather far-fetched and I don't quite see a good flavour reason for it either, so maybe the redirecting was not nearly so wide-spread. Also, gkrieg actually said he'd received a message in his QT about not having been able to shoot, so I guess it's not possible for him to have shot Ash by accident after all, hence the bodyguard conclusion above.

Has anyone noticed anything e might have said that would have made scum think that he was the traitor, in case that's a motive for them having shot him as well?

In case anyone is re-reading and looking for cohesive scum-teams, bear in mind that we may have a two-person scum team who didn't know chairs was their partner.

The kills and behaviour from the team need to be looked at in the knowledge that the "full" scums may have been picking their NK targets not only to kill townie players, but to attempt to recruit their missing traitor. It's possible they killed gkrieg yesterday because they thought a confessed vig would be a likely candidate for being their missing teammate.

What was your thought process on not targeting a mason last night?

What good would have come of it? I confirmed that I couldn't give them a shot if their pool of shots is depleted as they said it was, so there was no active benefit. I also know that there's some weirdness that let the masons get two townie results in the first place, and on the off-chance that scum can retarget powers onto themselves, I really didn't want to give them a double shot.

ok. so there is still a chance that there is an SK and gkrieg didn't shoot. Thats not what completely what I believe right now tho. If there is  no SK it does paint datswan pretty badly though.

I mean, it's also possible that there's an SK and it's Swan.

Actually, scratch that... it's very unlikely we have an SK left.

Chairs was a traitor, and I think it very unlikely that we have a one-person scum-team plus traitor, so I think that means there have to be at least two scum-team people left. For there to be Two scum-team people left and an SK left means three non-town out of the five of you left alive, meaning from my perspective one of Galz, Morgrim and Hydrad has to be some flavour of scum on top of EFHW and Swan. That just seems less likely to me.

ok. so there is still a chance that there is an SK and gkrieg didn't shoot. Thats not what completely what I believe right now tho. If there is  no SK it does paint datswan pretty badly though.

I mean, it's also possible that there's an SK and it's Swan.

Space, who did you target to motivate/RB?

I didn't want to take the risk, since my power seems pretty much a net zero gain, and motivating scum could have been a disaster, as could RBing town, so I did nothing again. I nearly targeted the masons, but I verified that it would not have given them an extra shot, so I thought there was no upside. I would have targeted you (Galz) in order to try to spread protection to more townies, but I didn't want to risk RBing you, and you were the only person I felt confident in my townread on after the claims.

I was pretty sure by the start of the night phase that chairs was scum -- I even noted in my QT that he's the only possible scum on the D1 lynch once I'd coloured you and the masons green. Good shot gkrieg :-) (Assuming that's how that played out!).

I'm still reasonably confident that Swan must be scum -- even moreso now that we've seen a genuine vig flip, since he insisted he wasn't the one who killed either of the WV people who already died, making silver's death due to actual WVing more likely.

I also wrote in the night that I thought EFHW was possibly more likely to be town than gkrieg, so it's kind of handy that scum have taken one half of that balance away.

So yeah: my best guess is that EFHW and Swan are the two others.

What is the basis of your townread on Galzria?

DatSwan - Why are you alive?

I donít get it? I am alive bc i am alive and my Town read on Galz is because i visited n2 and i didnít die.

So did you visit anyone last night?

Forum Games / Re: M119: Towny Mafia
« on: October 06, 2018, 04:13:20 pm »
/in! Though I'll be VLA next weekend, in case that's relevant.

Okay, last thing before I go to bed! What's everyone else's best explanation for why the masons got two "town" responses on two townies when they were supposed to get one try and one false.

I wonder if there's some kind of soul-swap mechanic, where we think we're targeting one player, but actually get an output from another player thanks to some scum-controlled soul-swap role/power/machine. That feels just too wild and unsolvable for town though, because with that much messing around and Galz's claimed protective ability, the WV-type roles would mean very little other than a high death rate for town.

Has anyone thought it through any further? If not, why not? :-P I'm more or less happy treating the masons as ICs now, though I'd be happy to listen to arguments as to why that's bad, if anyone wants to make them...

Chairs and Swan are the ones whose flavour gives me the most worry. Chairs because I'd forgotten the character entirely and had to look him up, and Swan because if I were trying to put fake flavour for scum somewhere, additional Rowdy Three members would be an easy solution (and also the other Rowdy Three member has flipped, so we know he was town, and I'm just generally suspicious of Swan still).

It's pretty suspicious to absorb people's powers...
WCD did, and she was town.

Wcd was a survivor
oh right. Not scum, though.

... is this an error more likely to be made by someone on the scum team? If EFHW viewed WCD as "town" simply because WCD was not on EFHW's scum-team, I think this kind of slip may be marginally more likely.

Of course, then I have to worry about why gkrieg, who's posted right after EFHW to call for her lynch, wasn't paying attention to something like that (or wasn't commenting, at any rate...).

@gkreig, to clarify, I'm wondering whether the order of resolution matters in your "miss" thing, and whether silver dying of a weak visit means he becomes in invalid target, because I still want to make some sense of what went on with silver, especially since it seems that even our extra revealed kill mechanism doesn't account for his death.

I'm Hugo Friedkin, the Universe-aligned Dumb Military Unit.

I have a 50% chance vig shot.  If I miss, I become voteless the next day (really swingy)

I shot silver both nights.  The first night I was blocked, because silver didn't die, but I didn't miss and lose my vote (I also got a message that said I was unable to shoot). 

The second night silver died, but I was told I missed and was now voteless.

Does this mean "miss" as in you try to shoot and the coin-flip goes the wrong way, or "miss" as in you try to shoot at someone who is protected, already dead, or for some other reason cannot be targeted?

If I repeatedly target the same person then each time I get an additional power.

Do you now get to detect motion and gender on your N3 target, if it's an additional power, not just additional information on your target the second time you pick the same person?

If so, given that there are not that many significant female characters left in the show, you could target Galz to check he's Farah, or target gkrieg on the off-chance he's Bart masquerading as a vig.

Space, youíre claiming NOT to have targeted Gkrieg N1, yeah?

I'm categorically stating that I didn't use my power at all N1.

Also, just thought about this... your math is wrong (bold to say to you, so I apologize). But if you targeted silver N2 and had a 50/50 chance of role blocking them I am unclear as to why you are so set on them WVing me. Your action alone creates a 50% probability that they were unable to take any action at all.

My maths isn't wrong, you just think I should have done different maths to start with :-P

I mostly said it just to counter the arguments about how rolling a 25% chance of something was too unlikely for WV to be worth considering. I believed that the game is bleeding townies too fast for there to be even more killing mechanisms out there, and therefore silver most likely died from his WV power, therefore my posterior belief that my shot had motivated rather than suppressed his power was much higher than 50%.

Now that gkrieg has come out as a vig who had it in for silver, I don't know what to think about my whole "too many things killing town" theory so much. I mean, gkrieg may well be scum trying to get his scumbiddy off the hook by muddying the waters around the breadcrumb issue, but at the same time, why risk that as scum rather than taking advantage of the good position they must be in by now just to go after one of their own for the townpoints? I'll have to wait for the other claims and see if anything anyone else makes any more or less sense.

@Space: I guess silver could even have WV'd twice.

I considered that, but if he had two WV shots and one clearly-indicated target, would he really decide to target twice? I think I would have used one shot and declined to target a second person in that scenario (or just targeted the same person twice if forced to pick target). Otherwise, the information put into the game by silver's death gets very fuzzy, and I think he'd think about maximising information, especially given that he had a town result on my by D2, and he knows how I think.

Ah, though now I've just asked a question, it's about to hit 1am and I need sleep. Sorry!

PPE 1: okay.. if you're happy with that, then it's your turn to claim, isn't it?

I assume you are purposefully withholding something about the roleblocking - which is fine, just want to verify. Also, have you clarified with LL what would happen to your modifier in the silver instance?

No, I'm just wary about quoting my QT too closely, so I paraphrased. What else is it you want to know? I either get to give them an extra shot, with 50% chance, or if not, they can't do anything at all. I don't get told which way it went.

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