Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - greybirdofprey

Filter to certain boards:

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
1
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 21, 2018, 10:42:35 am »
How are you expecting people to use that second card? To get any really nifty benefit from it you need to be playing two or three, which involves having two or three other cards in hand to trash with them. Doesn't that mean you either have to incorporate it into a fairly powerful engine which can do plenty of nifty stuff anyway, or people will end up turning Copper and Curses into Copper and Curses until two piles are empty? (-8

I've floated around a couple of variants before settling onto this one. 'Up to' could be 'exactly', 'Gain a card' could be 'You may gain a card', 'the number of [Card name]s in play' could have 'after the first one', et cetera. They are initial concrete versions of concepts I thought of, not final versions.

Yes, it needs an engine to get two or more of them. And yes, you can't trash Coppers with it. You're right on both accounts - perhaps it's too weak. I think the most interesting fix would be changing it to 'Trash this or a card from your hand' like Raze. I use 'up to' instead of 'exactly' to give the player more control when playing multiple.

I think allowing it to self-trash so you don't need an engine for more than two, would make it more interesting. Let's also allow for Copper-trashing to see what happens:

[Card name]
Cost: $2. Types: Action.
Card text:
+1 Action. Trash this or a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $X more than it where X is the number of [Card name]s you have played this turn.

With just one it's worse than Raze. In multiples they become stronger (and don't need an engine). You could turn Estates into more of these to get more benefit. Maybe this new version could be $3. I'm not sure.

On the second: I use 'exactly' so it can trash Coppers and Curses. I could've used 'You may gain a card costing up to $1 more than it', but it's more wordy. The Reaction is useful with trash-for-benefit or when you want to turn a card into another card. Don't forget having two of these lets one react to the other.

Yes, they aren't very strong. I was trying to make cheap cards.

2
Humble Village is simple and neat.

Tyrant may be too punishing/swingy in the opening. It's easy to remember everyone's opening cards, so whoever draws Tyrant on turn 3 gets to impair the other player's turn 4, which matters greatly. I don't know how it plays in the remainder of the game.

Contract may be too strong for the reasons stated, although I like the Curse-gaining for extra trashing.

3
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: July 21, 2018, 10:14:14 am »
Do you playtest digitally or physically?

What art do you use on cards when playtesting?

4
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 20, 2018, 08:51:47 pm »
Trying to think of some Remodel variants.

[Card name]
Cost: $[Not sure]. Types: Action, Reaction.
Card text:
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more it.
---Dividing line---
When one of your cards is trashed, you may discard this from your hand to gain a non-Victory card to your hand with the same value as the trashed card.

This should probably cost somewhere from $2 to $4. On the one hand there's the card's power that has an influence on the cost, on the other hand there's the possibility of turning Estates into these, or turning these into $5-costs, plus the interaction with itself and other trash-for-benefits. So I'm not sure what the best cost would be. The 'non-Victory' clause prevents gaining Provinces without losing your $7-cost card, but maybe lining up two of these and a $7-cost should be rewarded, plus there's not a lot of those.

[Card name]
Cost: $2. Types: Action.
Card text:
+1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $X more than it where X is the number of [Card name]s in play.

A spammable Remodel that becomes stronger as you play more of them.  I think it should cost $2 based on Raze/Ratcatcher/Lurker, and you can't trash Coppers with just one of them. Also see Trade Route/Develope/Forager. Maybe $3.

5
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion Anime Protagonists Unite!
« on: July 20, 2018, 10:28:45 am »
"I pay two Gold to build a Moat. Now you cannot use your Opulent Castle until you build a Bridge!"
"Haha! I simply use a Ferry to place the Ferry token on the Moat pile, so I can get across it to get to my Opulent Castle!"

6
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best cards to learn specific rules?
« on: July 20, 2018, 10:22:05 am »
Laboratory
don't shuffle your played cards into your discard

Black Market
This is one of the few exceptions to playing Treasure in your Buy phase

Outpost
There is no 'D' (draw) in ABC!

There is no T in AAO either.

I also notice that some players, when buying a card, tend to take that card into their hand, and then do clean-up
I don't see that one. But I do see people confusing their play area and their discard pile quite frequently: gaining to in-play, or playing to the discard pile.

I also see a lot of people throwing their Victory cards into play along with their Treasures. Which can matter.

I'm not sure there's any specific card or cards which demonstrate why these are wrong, though. Any engine will do.

The first one I see very sparingly, the second a lot.

Bonfire would work for the second. I can't quickly think of a simpler one.

I was thinking Pilgrimage.

I think Haunted Woods would be the best teacher here. It's possible that they would understand that their green cards aren't "in play" even if they throw them down. Haunted Woods' attack, though, suddenly makes it matter that they're still in your hand.

Ah, I forgot about that. Yes, Haunted Woods would be much simpler.

7
Maybe whoever buys metals from our mines is really susceptible to large quantities.

8
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 19, 2018, 10:52:52 am »
Anyway,

[Card name]
Cost: $4. Types: Action.
Card text:
Gain a card costing up to $4. +$X equal to the difference between $4 and the card's $ cost.

Workshop variant that gives you virtual coin for gaining cheaper cards. Ironworks does it when gaining Silver. I'm a bit worried about balance when gaining $0/$1 costs and, if it isn't, whether the concept is salvageable.

I actually came up with this exact card last night, except that it was +Cards instead of +$.

Cool.

With cards it would be great for engines where the virtual coin requires feeding (Trade Route, Death Cart, Forager, some others).
With coin you still require a trasher. Would work well with Pooka.

I think cards is a bit more interesting - plus in trimmed decks and with deck-drawing engines, you can gain something under $4, then draw it.

Both of them can get you to $5 easily in turns 3 or 4, but with cards it also speeds up your deck cycling, so you can play those $5s (or $6s) faster.

9
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 18, 2018, 09:53:55 am »
Anyway,

[Card name]
Cost: $4. Types: Action.
Card text:
Gain a card costing up to $4. +$X equal to the difference between $4 and the card's $ cost.

Workshop variant that gives you virtual coin for gaining cheaper cards. Ironworks does it when gaining Silver. I'm a bit worried about balance when gaining $0/$1 costs and, if it isn't, whether the concept is salvageable.

10
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Thought exercise: nerfs and buffs
« on: July 18, 2018, 09:37:10 am »
With the recent discussion on Guardian - what if you can optionally trash it at the start of your turn to get a second +$1?

11
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best cards to learn specific rules?
« on: July 18, 2018, 09:32:45 am »
I also notice that some players, when buying a card, tend to take that card into their hand, and then do clean-up
I don't see that one. But I do see people confusing their play area and their discard pile quite frequently: gaining to in-play, or playing to the discard pile.

I also see a lot of people throwing their Victory cards into play along with their Treasures. Which can matter.

I'm not sure there's any specific card or cards which demonstrate why these are wrong, though. Any engine will do.

The first one I see very sparingly, the second a lot.

Bonfire would work for the second. I can't quickly think of a simpler one.

12
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 17, 2018, 05:35:22 pm »
So I know this was perceived as a Copper junker, but I kind of wonder whether it would be easier to balance as a Curser. Like:

Quote
+2 coins
+1 Buy
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card, gaining a Curse if that card was a Victory or Curse card.

I often wonder (for this card and others I've thought of) is it worth it to include ruins and shelters to a card like this? They aren't particularly common, but if they aren't included they become quite the loophole to the function of this card.

Ruins and Shelters are expansion-specific types, and such types are usually only referred to in their own expansion.

Discard attacks are basically 'anti-draw'. crj has an interesting 'anti-sifting' concept. The main problem is that it can be beneficial for your opponents, as people could sift their Coppers to get better cards (especially when they trashed their Estates). So it would either need to be an interaction effect as downside on a rather strong card (perhaps a strong sifter), or it would have to care about card cost (such as 'every other player discards a card costing $3 to $6 (or to $7) or reveal they can't. If they did, they draw a card.') Or an Action/Treasure costing $1 or more.

13
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Reactions
« on: July 17, 2018, 03:07:53 pm »
Is there a way to activate Diplomat's actions in a Reaction-only kingdom? I don't see one.
Trash Fool's Gold from hand on your opponent's turn.

Ah, yes, thanks.
Although I was hoping you could make a somewhat reliable engine out of Reactions, but using Diplomat as your village would only work after other's Province turns.
But with Shelters, you'd have Necropolis, which decreases your handsize. So you could play, for example, Necropolis - Secret Chamber - Diplomat.
Now I'm wondering what the best megaturn would be using only Reactions, provided the stars align perfectly. You can trash with Trader + Watchtower.

14
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best cards to learn specific rules?
« on: July 17, 2018, 02:50:39 pm »
I also notice that some players, when buying a card, tend to take that card into their hand, and then do clean-up (instead of putting it in their discard pile and then doing clean-up).

Herald and Inn are especially good at teaching this. Grand Castle too but there's only one. Cemetery clearly implies you still have a hand.
Mint, Farmland, Mandarin, Emporium work too.
Also night cards make for a very clear distinction between buy and clean-up.

Although for teaching purposes, simpler is usually better.


Vassal + Faithful Hound may be the best example of lose-track as they are both straightforward cards.

dz: Gear when you don't set aside cards too.

15
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Reactions
« on: July 17, 2018, 02:34:15 pm »
1) Watchtower.

2) Hovel. The least interesting one in my opinion.

3) Watchtower or Fool's Gold. I'm not sure whether I should interpret 'most useful' as 'utility' or as 'strength'. Fool's Gold wants gainers or +buy though.

Is there a way to activate Diplomat's actions in a Reaction-only kingdom? I don't see one.

16
Dominion General Discussion / Best cards to learn specific rules?
« on: July 17, 2018, 10:06:03 am »
So which cards are great at teaching new players specific rules? In this thread I want you to pick a rule that new players tend to forget / not understand why it exists / make mistakes with, and provide a few cards that are great at teaching them about it.

For example:
-You play your Treasures one by one, not simultaneously:
Contraband, Horn of Plenty, Bank, Magic Lamp.

17
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 17, 2018, 09:45:23 am »
Yeah, this is a pretty great card design, but it does need to be $4. I think itís better for it to give out Coppers rather than curses. Itís nice for it to be slightly weaker and more newbie friendly, and itís less damaging to certain alt VP slogs that way. I would use LFNís wording and not care that itís weaker in Council Room games or whatever; itís already very solid.

Based on the discussion I agree with $4. I mostly chose Copper over Curse because I want the 'discard something useful' vs. 'gain something bad'-ratio to be closer together - people are more likely to opt for gaining a Copper than a Curse. With Torturer this is achieved by the effect stacking.

One benefit of Curses (and Ruins) is that the size of the pile is catered to the number of players. All existing junkers that hand out Coppers do so sparingly, have conditions for not obtaining them, or help get rid of them. Mountebank slows down or stops as people get more Curses. Noble Brigand, Hex attacks, Jester, maybe Messenger, don't always do it. Ambassador gets rid of two before junking. Some cards have Copper/Curse as a penalty, but this is the player's own decision. All this puts a limit on how much someone's deck can be junked, perhaps because junking beyond some point makes the game too slow and unfun. I think this is why there are no unconditional Copper junkers - the pile is simply too large.

I think I can get away with Coppers because the decision of getting junked is in the attackee's hands, so you don't necessarily need the balance of a limited Curse pile. (Edge case: a hand of all Victory cards, but that barely happens, and as you get more Coppers you get less of these hands)

There's also "each other player discards down to four cards in hand, then gains a Copper if the top card of her discard pile is a Victory card."

The Councilroom engines won't be dissuaded from playing the card.

I think I would only use the top card of one's discard pile if other cards in a set use it. It does make Tunnel a good defense against this, though.

18
  • ... Secret Chamber ... avoid the problem by having no effect when revealed multiple times.

You mean without something else happening in between?
You could reveal Secret Chamber to get a Caravan Guard in your hand that previously wasn't, then play that Caravan Guard, then reveal the same Secret Chamber again to see a card that you couldn't see on the first reveal.

19
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 16, 2018, 10:31:52 am »
As a rule, I'm not a big fan of Copper junking. This works okay because it bounds itself by making players affected more likely to discard Copper, but that really draws attention to its similarities to Cutpurse. It gives +$2 and it makes players likely to discard Copper (though doesn't stack obviously).

I've played with
Quote
Bootleggers
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $4
+2 Cards. Each other player with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card. If it is a Victory card, they gain a Curse.
Granting Curses to affected players gives a similar reducing effect as gaining Coppers, while +2 Cards not only helps it combo into itself for better effect but makes it emphatically different than Cutpurse.

The comparison to Cutpurse makes me realize that this probably can't cost . It's better than Cutpurse in most ways. Early on, the right decision is going to be to discard a Copper over an Estate almost every time, so it will act exactly like Cutpurse. Later, it doesn't start missing like Cutpurse does.

I used +$2 so it can be used as engine payload, plus I think +$2 is usually slightly better than +2 cards in openings at getting you to $5. Think opening Moat/Silver vs. [Chancellor or Vassal or something]/Silver. Moat only increases your current turn's buying power more if you draw a Silver and a Copper with it, less if you draw Estate/Copper. If you open two terminals you're less likely to get collision if you don't open with draw. Although I didn't do the math so I could be wrong.


Hm.
-Only time it doesn't hit is when a player has two terminals and no villages in hand.
-Gives option to junk self when key price point is threatened.
-Doesn't stack.

Yes, I think $4 would be better. The stacking of Cutpurse only happens later in the game, which is also when it misses more often, and self-junking is still bad for the attackee.


20
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 15, 2018, 04:44:45 pm »
You could instead do, ďEach other player with more than 4 cards in hand discards one. If itís a Victory card, they gain a Copper.Ē Discarding one card implicitly reveals it.

True, but you lose the slight strength increase with Council Room/Lost City/[some combinations of on-trash effects and trashing attacks]. Although I think I like yours better because I think the added simplicity outweighs those 'edge cases'.

21
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 15, 2018, 03:50:42 pm »
Nice. Needs some sort of reveal-as-you-discard wording though.

You're completely right. How about 'Every other player discards down to four cards in hand, revealing the cards they discard. They then gain a Copper per Victory card they discarded this way.'?

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 15, 2018, 01:24:31 pm »
No Villas here.

[Card name]
Cost: $3. Types: Action-Attack.
Card text:
+$2
Every other player discards down to four cards in hand, then gains a Copper per Victory card they discarded this way.

23
Rules Questions / Re: "no other rule is a Dominion rule"
« on: July 13, 2018, 03:15:17 pm »
Resignation is officially allowed in chess as well (and, in fact, is commoner than checkmate - I had eight decisive games in my last tournament, with seven ending by resignation and one by checkmate).

Yup. Of course one big difference is that Chess doesn't need to worry about the proper way to continue a game after a player resigns. But I think that the commonality between Chess and MTG there is the seriousness of the game; both are played in money-making tournaments.

Thinking of 1 v 1 games where resignation would matter - in snooker players not only compete for the title, but a cash price is also awarded to the player with the highest break in a tournament (I may be wrong in some details), so if resignation was allowed it could be used to shut others off from it.
But I can't think of a tabletop game where resignation would matter in such a way.

The point is that there's no official second place in almost any game; and in Dominion specifically there's no a great way to house-rule a determination of second place.

I agree with 'counting current points' not making sense, for the reasons you specify. Also, when the game ends is decided by the players, so the game's 'endpoint' is not really a 'fair measuring point' - if A hadn't ended the game, it might have taken C much longer to end the game, allowing B to piledrive the Provinces. But player A is there, and the game is ended. There is no 'secondary ending point' you could use to measure who would have won 'next'.

Mandatory edge case mention: the Formula D rules state "The race ends when all cars have crossed the finishing line, in order to enable ranking." from which I assume that second etc. place exist.

24
Also josh56.

I very sincerely recommend putting people on your ignore list.  It sounds like kind of a mean and hostile thing to do, but in fact it makes the world a nicer and brighter place for all.  The ignore list is hard to find, so for the benefit of those who can't find it... click "profile" on the top, then "buddies/ignore list" on the sidebar, then press "edit ignore list" and type in the user's name.

"Adding members to these lists will, amongst other things, help control mail and PM traffic"

What does it do exactly?

25
Rules Questions / Re: "no other rule is a Dominion rule"
« on: July 13, 2018, 11:17:32 am »
In game contexts, you can only do things specifically allowed by the rules.

Thanks Donald.
Does this also hold for denominations? For example, I play a Pawn and say I use it to get "+1 action, +1 purchase" instead of "+1 action, +1 buy". Humans will know what I mean, but is it technically correct? Similarly, the rules only say that the player with the most VP wins (or tied with fewer turns, or tied). Does that mean there is no 'official' second place?

Exactly. It's a rule that's implicitly written in every rulebook for every game, but MTG felt the need to spell it out. I suppose you could say it changes the reasonable expectations of a game... in most games, if a player who was losing simply gave up and left, it may be considered rude. People do it in Online Dominion all the time, but it doesn't generally happen in IRL Dominion.

Yes, resigning would be a good example of what I'm talking about.

There is no rule on resigning in Dominion (IRL). So technically the game would stall once the player who 'left' has a turn.
But perhaps, within the rules, you could 'resign' by saying that on every turn, you do absolutely nothing. Then tell the other players what they should do with your cards when an interaction/attack is played (e.g. 'If someone plays a Torturer, always discard the leftmost two cards'). By doing this, the other players can keep playing, and simply perform your turns by only doing your clean-ups (I assume that players are allowed to do stuff with your cards if formal consent is given, such as shuffling your discard while you visit the bathroom).

Or you can use house rules for resigning. (of course you could quit mid-game because humans are playing it and not robots - I'm taking a formal approach here)

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5

Page created in 0.115 seconds with 18 queries.