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Messages - Oyvind

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1
Sometimes it isn't your day for Swindler



I'm not actually sure which side you're saying got unlucky here. Having 3 Golds replaced with 3 Farmlands could either be good or bad depending on when in the game it happened; the results could have ended up either far better or far worse for either player.

How often do you have an empty Gold pile?

Nothing here suggests that the Gold pile is empty. As you can see, the acting player buys a Gold after performing all the attacks. It could be that that Gold was the last one in the pile, but we wouldn’t know that, unless we witnessed the game being played.

2
General Discussion / Re: My head a splode
« on: October 16, 2018, 05:29:15 pm »
All of my hobbies and interests are exploding with excitement all at once.

Making babies is one of your hobbies?

Sounds like a nice hobby, if you ask me!

Congrats, Chappy7!

3
Dominion General Discussion / Re: card ranking lists
« on: October 09, 2018, 09:31:23 am »
Embargo is better than Transmute. You heard it here.

Definitely; there's tons of times you want a one shot Silver, and don't care that it's terminal. The cursing thing I can take or leave - honestly I usually just Embargo Embargo (or Curse) so I don't have to think about it.

Transmute is a pretty special breed of awful. It's really contrived finding a situation where it is decent. It's really rarely okay with Bonfire and limited other trashing options available. And I guess in some games with other Potion cards it's a Duchy gainer late.

As the sole trasher on a board with other potion cost cards, it can be decent, but probably never great.

4
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: October 09, 2018, 06:38:08 am »
What's your main misgiving about working with big data from the online implementation?
When did you stop beating your wife? I don't have misgivings about working with data from the online implementation.

You just don't seem to do it despite having plenty of good opportunities and reasons to do so.

Man, I really don't get why people continually antagonize Donald X.  It's almost like you all want him to stop answering questions on the forum again.
Huh, I think this is an apt reaction, trying to rephrase the observation without the allegation that misgivings might play a role. My reactions to insinuations about how I treat my wife tend to be harsher.

DXV has acknowledged that he can be rude. Like most of us, he's not a rock, and that means that he will react by expressing his immediate emotion from time to time. While this may or may not be considered rude, I can understand that people can react negatively to it. I once asked about something that he answered somewhere, and when I then asked him for specifics that would help me understand why he answered like he did (English is not my first language), I felt that he replied kind of rudely, and I honestly still think he did. BUT he still took the time to reply, AND he answered my follow-up question! I think that speaks to his credit.

As others have pointed out, we're pretty darn lucky to have the game's designer frequent these boards and actually replying to questions that can even be considered dumber than my admittedly stupid follow-up question way back when. He's probably tired of such questions and doesn't always think through the implications of his odd rude replies when people don't understand what he meant initially, or maybe he doesn't care. No, I don't think that he should be immune to criticism, and maybe he even deserves some, but if you're able to read between the lines, he usually answers all questions the first time around.

His reference to people beating their wives is NOT an insinuation that NoMoreFun has ever beaten his/her wife (or even that he/she has a wife). It's to tell NoMoreFun that he asks something that cannot be answered truthfully with a direct reply, because the question implies that DXV has any misgivings about something he clearly hasn't got any misgivings about. The question had fallacies, and he addressed it by referencing the most common question associated with such questions. What I know, is that I want DXV and his occasional hot-headedness around, because the alternative would be way, way worse. Criticize him all you want. That's called freedom of speech, as is his right to reply rudely, if he so chooses. But I don't think it helps if you want replies to your questions in a thread that's called "Interview with Donald X.".

Edits: Fixed some typos (hopefully all of them).

5
Introductions / Re: Hello world
« on: October 09, 2018, 02:09:30 am »
Welcome to F.DS!

6
Soooo Amazon has two "products" - one with ASIN B003D3OD4K, one with ASIN B01KBSHD5K.  I'm assuming the first is the reprint?  Is that conclusive?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003D3OD4K is clearly the official one. It looks like they are not using a different ASIN for both editions. The other one is a third party seller that didn't list under the same ASIN like they were supposed to. Maybe you'll have to buy and hope it is the 2nd edition? I'm sure the one you'll receive is a random stock issue. If they have more of the old one, you'll might get the old one randomly. I have no idea if they have the new one yet.

You could always return it if it is the old one and just say the Possession card was defective in your copy because it didn't reference debt tokens. :)

Well, Amazon themselves hadn't had it in stock for quite some time up until medio September, so I guess it's the revised edition.

I don't dare ordering it, before I know it's the right one, though (I already own the Japanese and the English '1st edition' printing of it, and I don't really need back-up copies of the old one).

Maybe they just found some old stock that weren't listed or something. Until I know for sure, I won't order it. If I knew whether they update the description when they get in new stock or not, there would be no problem. Right now, the old text is listed, but I suspect that they don't update them, so it's still probably the revised edition.

Edit: I had a "the" too much. It's now removed.

7
I had personally wondered why it wasn't "At the start of your turn, reveal any number of Coppers, discard them, and draw that many cards.", which seems to fit the Dominion standard, but that does add 3 characters.

Discarding is from your hand by default, but revealing is not. So it would have had to be, "Reveal any number of Coppers from your hand, discard them, then draw that many cards."

Besides, what he just said! :)

8
I get that's what it's supposed to be, but wording doesn't make sense.

How does it not make sense? You discard the Coppers, revealed. And then you draw that many cards.

You discard the coppers, revealed? But no coppers were revealed. There's nothing that says to reveal your hand. The syntax is messed up. How does that make sense?
"Revealed" means "also, reveal those coppers, so that we know they are coppers. By the way sorry for saying this so tersely but there's only so much room on the cards and if it had ever confused anyone in playtesting man I would have changed it."

Why not just "At the start of your turn, reveal and discard any number of coppers and draw that many cards."?

Then I ask: Why add another word? The text on the card-shaped thing is correct English and more efficient than your suggestion.

His suggestion is actually the same number of characters. I also had momentary confusion over the wording. Regardless of its correctness in English, the current wording is non-standard in the Dominion language, which is more relevant here. That said, "momentary confusion" passes quickly, so it doesn't seem like a big deal.

I had personally wondered why it wasn't "At the start of your turn, reveal any number of Coppers, discard them, and draw that many cards.", which seems to fit the Dominion standard, but that does add 3 characters.

True, but the characters also take up marginally more space, even though the number of spaces are the same:
At the start of your turn, reveal and discard any
number of Coppers and draw that many cards.

At the start of your turn, discard any number of
Coppers, revealed, and draw that many cards.


Space is really tight here, and if the limit is filled on the card-shaped thing as it is, the alternative presented here actually gets to three lines. I don't know how to add a picture of it, but with the correct font, Excel shows that this is enough of a problem to warrant three lines, if the width is really filled out.

I used font size 10 and column width 36,14 and got the following breaks in the text:

At the start of your turn, reveal and discard
any number of Coppers and draw that many
cards.

At the start of your turn, discards any number of
Coppers, revealed, and draw that many cards.


Not that I believe this was what made them do it like this. Just look up DXV's explanation above. He tried it that way, and no playtesters had a problem with it, so it stayed. I don't understand why it should be changed if it works, and my mention of number of words was just because I saw that the frame was pretty much filled to it's limit. I don't think they want the text to almost touch the frames, because that doesn't look good, and with all the thought going into expanding the text size in 2nd edition/revised edition, I don't see why they should try to fill the boxes so that they potentially need to make the text smaller.

9
I get that's what it's supposed to be, but wording doesn't make sense.

How does it not make sense? You discard the Coppers, revealed. And then you draw that many cards.

You discard the coppers, revealed? But no coppers were revealed. There's nothing that says to reveal your hand. The syntax is messed up. How does that make sense?
"Revealed" means "also, reveal those coppers, so that we know they are coppers. By the way sorry for saying this so tersely but there's only so much room on the cards and if it had ever confused anyone in playtesting man I would have changed it."

Why not just "At the start of your turn, reveal and discard any number of coppers and draw that many cards."?

Then I ask: Why add another word? The text on the card-shaped thing is correct English and more efficient than your suggestion.

10
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance name BINGO
« on: September 27, 2018, 10:34:14 am »
Maybe the next Dominion expansion is Dominion: In Space, to avoid this problem.

Space Merchant is the best card in the expansion.

I thought that distinction went to Market Space.

11
I think the answer will be no, but it's good to ask anyway: are Artifacts considered part of your deck, for Gardens and similar purposes?

They’re not cards, only card-shaped objects. :-p

12
or just Rouge. (that card have failed me so many times #neverattacks)

Is Rouge another card from Renaissance?

I was thinking the same. It's probably an attack that never attacks, with a card type of Make-up.

13
Rules Questions / Re: 5-6 player number of cards.
« on: September 21, 2018, 09:46:04 am »
I asked a similar question earlier, and DXV himself replied that he had not proposed this 80/70/48 split of the basic treasure cards as official for higher player counts. I remembered that I had read it, but my recollection assumed things not to be assumed. In 1st edition, the original Intrigue rulebook came with the following text: "To set up for 5 or 6 players, combine the Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue". I.e. 120C/80S/60G. In 2nd edition, it says the same, but with other words: "Add all of the extra Coppers, Silvers, and Golds from Base Cards (or the other copy of Dominion) to those piles".

If I remember correctly: When producing the 2nd edition Big Box, they had room for some extra treasures, and DXV decided to put in the arbitrary amounts of 80C/70S/48G. This was no attempt by him to define the number of treasure cards needed for 5- og 6-player games. It was simply what he decided to put into the Big Box, and this was limited by the available space in the tray (and the fact that cards are shrink-wrapped in amounts of 100). The box says: "...plus extra base cards for 5-6 players". Unless I've missed something, there is no mention of actually using 80C/70S/48G anywhere, but I accidentally read the above-mentioned box text to mean "these are the amounts of treasure cards to use with 5 or 6 players". It simply states that they included some extra base cards, in case you want to play with 5 or 6 players.

When it comes to victory cards, curses and ruins, the numbers are clearly defined (and I'm not including the Estates normally included in the players' starting decks, as these are omitted when playing with shelters).

Provinces
2p: 8.
3p, 4p: 12.
5p: 15.
6p: 18.

ALL other victory cards:
2p: 8.
3p, 4p, 5p, 6p: 12.


Curses and ruins
2p: 10.
3p: 20.
4p: 30.
5p: 40.
6p: 50.

The number of potions and platinum cards aren't mentioned, so I imagine they should always be used in amounts of 16 and 12, respectively, even if you happen to have the Base Cards product.

14
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Dominion: Renaissance on RGG's website
« on: September 21, 2018, 03:36:58 am »
They are planned for Monday, and as usual any unforeseen delays in the physical product will not delay the previews.

The day after my birthday, alas.

I get to celebrate early, as my birthday is a week after yours. Happy birthday on Sunday!

15
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Dominion: Renaissance on RGG's website
« on: September 20, 2018, 10:53:36 am »
Oh boy, all my current expansions just barely fit in my storage solution.

And again I will have to wait for 999 Games to release their own version about one year later, and then I will have to wait for them to print errata cards for the inevitable translation errors they will make (which, as far as I know, they haven't done yet for Adventures, Empires and second edition, although they promised they would do it when they would print Nocturne).

Maybe this time I will just have it shipped from America.

I'm way too geeky, so I now have three separate sets (although I only have one full, full set). BCW boxes are amazing. I have a two-row box for all Norwegian cards (Dominion, Intrigue, Prosperity and three promos), a five-row box with some room to spare for the Original-9 and all promos released up until the relase of Guilds, which I have at work (the latest sets are too complicated/time-consuming for a lunch-break of 30 minutes). It should be noted that I've replaced the 12 removed 1st edition cards with the 14 replacement cards from 2nd edition. This particular set is a mix of English and Norwegian cards, though everything is '1st ed.', except for the 14 mentioned replacement cards.

In addition to this, I have a full set of '2nd ed.' English cards in another five-row box. This particular box would burst open if I put in the re-print Alchemy and Renaissance without removing anything. I've decided to remove the randomizers from this box, as I use electronic randomizers whenever I play, anyway. These randomizers will be put in the 'light' box at work. There will be just enough room for the new cards, but I have to keep tokens and mats separately for this complete set. Oh yeah, and ALL cards are sleeved with Arcane Tinmen.

16
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Dominion: Renaissance on RGG's website
« on: September 20, 2018, 03:37:05 am »
Still no revised Alchemy, as far as I know. Neither on Amazon nor anywhere else.

I hope somebody has found it and can share a link or something like that.

It was said that it would be sent out to distributors within a month, back in July.
I don't have it yet either.

Ah, I see! Thanks for replying, even though I posted this in the wrong thread. Looking forward to the Alchemy revision, but even more so the upcoming, and so far unknown, Renaissance expansion! This game is simply the best card/board game! Hands down! Thanks a lot for both making it and supporting it with fresh content! :)

17
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Dominion: Renaissance on RGG's website
« on: September 19, 2018, 05:11:15 am »
Still no revised Alchemy, as far as I know. Neither on Amazon nor anywhere else.

I hope somebody has found it and can share a link or something like that.

It was said that it would be sent out to distributors within a month, back in July.

18
I prefer having a +1 to "take a coin token."

I agree, but the wording change didn't happen for Pirate Ship and Trade Route. Is that because they have quite a different effect from "+# Coffers", or because the idea of changing the phrase came after these revised versions were printed?

With only two remaining "take a coin token" cards, with different effects from "Coffers", I feel that it's fitting these weren't rephrased. Once they're placed on their respective cards, they kind of do the same thing, so I like that you kept the same phrase for these two even in "2nd edition".

I think having a keyword makes less sense if there's only 1 card that uses the keyword. Pirate Ship could have been reworded to "+1 Plunder", but it would be sort of silly if nothing else in the game ever mentions Plunder; and then you need extra rules explaining what Plunder means, just to make that 1 card work.

It's sort of like automating a process. Automating it saves time for each time you run the process; but it has some overhead cost of automating it in the first place. This cost is worth it if that process runs multiple times; but if the process only runs once, then automating it just wastes time. Replace "time" with "rules text" for the analogy to work.

*Edit*: https://xkcd.com/1205/

I agree, I was just curious. I think things like when design decisions happens, what the reasoning for different decisions is, and things like that are fun. Getting behind the scenes in a way.

We could be looking at other things that gets you coin tokens in Renaissance, which necessitated the rephrasing in Guilds. Having too many cards or card-shaped objects saying the same, when they mean different things, is problematic, and the Coffers way is probably the most ‘natural’ thing to give a new phrase. But there are several more things one could use those tokens for. ;-)

Edit: More text and a typo fix.

19
I prefer having a +1 to "take a coin token."

I agree, but the wording change didn't happen for Pirate Ship and Trade Route. Is that because they have quite a different effect from "+# Coffers", or because the idea of changing the phrase came after these revised versions were printed?

With only two remaining "take a coin token" cards, with different effects from "Coffers", I feel that it's fitting these weren't rephrased. Once they're placed on their respective cards, they kind of do the same thing, so I like that you kept the same phrase for these two even in "2nd edition".

20
Well there have been remodel variants that put the gained card(s) on top for a while. Or at least since Develop. But I think Zombie Mason is the first one that just straight up trashes the top card of your deck.

Lookout do trash one of your top three cards and topdecks another, but not a remodeled card. It's kind of close. ;)

21
No new Base Cards set yet, by the way? Looking so forward to these two boxes, so that everything (except for a couple of promos) is updated.
New Base Cards is out, some people have it.

OK, great news! Thanks a lot!

22
How is the Alchemy reprint coming along?  Any updates you can share?
It should be out any day; I will find out when someone reports having it. I am checking Amazon, they do not have it for a normal price, so I guess it isn't out yet.
Jay now expects Alchemy to be in stores in about a month. It's printed but hasn't shipped.

No new Base Cards set yet, by the way? Looking so forward to these two boxes, so that everything (except for a couple of promos) is updated.

23
Dominion General Discussion / Re: To Those Who Deny Undo Steps Online
« on: April 30, 2018, 09:44:18 am »
I don’t get this at all personally. I would see allowing an undo as being very gracious and sportsman-like, but to a degree above what I think should be minimally expected of people. I think someone is fully within their rights to deny an undo, and that such an act is not poor sportsmanship or rude; it is simply a lack of excessively good sportsmanship.
Well, not that I expect other people to grant undos, but then I don't want to play with them.

On the subject: Sometimes things might just be misunderstandings. I just played someone who played an Avanto and requested undo afterwards. I denied, thinking they wanted to not play Avanto once he drew a hand of no Saunas, but they clarified that they just mistakenly clicked "End Actions" (which I don't think there is a way for me to realize?), so then I gave them the undo. Without the talking it might have been a case where both think the other was being a jerk.


But see that's exactly what I'm talking about. It is not your job or responsibility to police other players and decide which undos they do and don't deserve. Just grant it. If they're requesting one to give them an unfair advantage, that's on them. Is it your privilege to deny? Sure, but it's also a bad attitude and that's what I want to see change in this community.
What? So your suggestion is that if someone undoes every Wishing Well wish to guess the right card, it would be bad attitude for me to deny that?

Yeah, basically. The issue here isn't what he was doing, it's that you're worrying about why he's asking for it in the first place. If you have a healthy attitude about the game, a productive one toward cultivating skill and personal growth, then you understand it's just not your place to differentiate. Let him worry about why he wants the undo and what that means for the game. You focus on you.

Abetting other players' cheating by deciding not to care isn't exactly a healthy attitude. It encourages such players to keep asking for malicious undos. This has a detrimental effect on everyone who plays those players in the future.

And if the point is to make things more fun, letting an opponent undo a misclick or mistake from rules confusion can do that, but letting your opponent cheat probably won't.

My philosophy is, give them the undo if it's something you'd give them in a casual real-life game. In my IRL games, doing something like playing a card and then saying, "No, wait, I don't want to do that" happens all the time.

I'm sorry I can't upvote you more than once for this!

24
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Translations
« on: April 26, 2018, 04:55:44 pm »
Hm, a Renkesmed I would expect to spread rumours and gossip, whereas a Conspirator would be someone I would expect to be very silent about the matter connected with his clandestine plans.

"Renkesmed" translates to "schemer, intriguer", so it's pretty accurate. A synonym in Norwegien is "intrigemaker". It also has a connotation of spreading rumors in order to further one's plans, but doing so secretly, which is what Oyvind is talking about. I don't know if that connotation is specifically Norwegian and not English/American, but I remember the word "renkesmed" being used that way when I heard it more (some decades ago - it's pretty outdated now).

Most definitely. These are covert operations, and they have a very specific purpose for the Renkesmed.

25
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Translations
« on: April 25, 2018, 08:11:37 pm »
I’m so happy we have cards like Skarpretter, Renkesmed, Sjarlatan, etc.!

Renkesmed sounds great to German ears too, but it would be a bit more fitting if the primary function would be card drawing. After all, it's a smed (smith, I guess), if only in a figurative sense. To my mind, Diplomat would be a good renkesmed.

I don't know if Skarpretter means the same as German Scharfrichter, but that would be an executioner, whose purpose is beheading, not torturing.

Thanks a lot for your feedback. I like your take on this. I agree that the Scharfrichter’s main purpose was to execute murderers and enemies to the throne (by axe or sword, unlike the Büttel who usually used other methods like hanging), but I had to look it up when I saw the Norwegian card title, as I too disagreed with the translators a bit. I learnt a lot, and I feel that the card name is actually very fitting after all. They’re mostly known for their executions, that’s true, but that was only a part of their job. You can only execute so many, you know. A lot of their work, in Norway at least, included interrogation and/or branding of criminals and cutting off of hands/fingers and the like. I don’t know if German Scharfrichters did the same, but in Norway, I think they could qualify as Torturers. Besides, the name is evocative (and we frankly have few alternative words in Norwegian).

As for Renkesmed: Like you said, the name implies smithing in a figurative sense, as they kind of forge chains of rumors and gossip. As they draw when a lot is going on (3+ actions in the same round), I think it’s kind of appropriate. They need help from other Conspirators to make solid chains, so a single such ‘smith’ shouldn’t draw a lot. I like the fact that with more things going on in your kingdom, the conspiracies thrive.

I guess my main point is that they’ve found old-fashioned words that have actually been used a lot in Norway, and to me at least, they’re dramatic and evocative.

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