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1
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« on: September 25, 2019, 11:29:23 am »
I played BoM as Fishing Village.
Jenny bought the last Fishing Village

The tracking issue still remains, I suppose.

The tracking issue that is fixed with the new tracking rule is having the BoM still able to be on the table when it played a Duration or Throne-played-Duration to remind you to do that extra effect later.

The tracking issue that still exists is having to remember what card you played with BoM. This will always be an issue unless you do some real weird stuff that probably wouldn't be worth it (or not do BoM and it's kin).

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« on: September 25, 2019, 11:22:54 am »
2. Tracking for the former shapeshifters

Some cards, like the new Band of Misfits, can play a card that isn't put into play. When you play Band of Misfits, leave it in play as long as you would have left the card it plays in play. Normally that will be the same turn's Clean-up. For a Band of Misfits playing a Duration card, it will be the Clean-up of the last turn the Duration card has any effects. For a Band of Misfits playing a Throne Room playing a Duration card, it will be the Clean-up of the turn the Duration card leaves play. For a Band of Misfits playing a card that can move itself from play, like Mining Village, the Mining Village can't move itself, so Band of Misfits doesn't leave play any earlier than normal. If a Band of Misfits plays multiple Duration cards (e.g., you used Throne Room on it), leave it out until the Clean-up of the last turn that one of them still had effects.

Quick question on BoM / TR vs TR / BoM interaction:

Scenario 1: BoM playing TR playing Duration - all cards stay out until Duration gets cleaned up

Scenario 2: TR playing BoM playing Duration (as one of its two plays) - TR gets cleaned up that turn, BoM and Duration stay out until Duration gets cleaned up

Is that correct? (if so, I'm now imagining a larger TR / BoM / TR / BoM ... chain. :p)
1: The Throne is never in play of course, but otherwise yes.
2: Yes.

you BoM a TR playing Durations, then Bonfire the Durations. the BoM still stay in play until the Durations finish all effects, right?

I'm pretty sure the BoM leaves play once the last Duration does, just like it would if you had played a Throne Room normally.

Bonfire can still cause tracking issues when you trash a card that wouldn't be discarded from play during the current turn. It could be changed to something like "Trash up to 2 cards you have in play that you would discard from play this turn" to "fix" it, but it's so rare you actually want to trash these, it's not much of an issue, IMO.

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« on: September 25, 2019, 04:08:25 am »
Question: Does Inheriting something change the type of the Estate pile to Action - Victory during your turns as well (which has implications for other events and Teacher, etc.)? I don't think so, but just wanted to verify.

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« on: September 25, 2019, 02:43:55 am »
Wikified:
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Dominion_2019_Errata_and_Rules_Tweaks
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Stop-Moving_rule (needs more info like the old lose-track page - which should be left in-tact for posterity and those with physical cards).

I also edited the card text on each changed card's page, but there are no official Card Notes for the new changes. I may propose some unofficial ones later (and leave the official ones in a separate section until new printings occur).
I'm also not sure where to best integrate the other new rules across the board (maybe best to reference as needed from particular card pages).

EDIT: I added unofficial FAQs for the new versions of the 3 main modified cards. BoM and Overlord got shorter. Inheritance got longer (but there are fewer strange cases and needed clarifications, so it's for the best).

5
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: April 08, 2019, 09:41:29 pm »
Thanks for responding! It's great to learn more about how the game could/should have been. I'd love to pick up a copy if you ever manage to get it published for real.

A few more questions about the prototype vs Infiltration:

Special action ordering (i.e. "Interface" in Infiltration): In Infiltration, many of these are one-shots and some grab loot or change shared state. How do you resolve ordering here?
Looting uneven splits: In Infiltration this is done per DF token, so there can be uneven splits (e.g. 3 players loot with 4 tokens or 5 players loot with 3 tokens). How did you resolve this in the prototype? Did you just split the amount by making change? Or were there tokens there as well? Or some kind of catch-up mechanic where player in last gets dibs?
Loot to DF token conversion: You said the max looting was $100 per round and round in the prototype. What would be the closest amount this would correspond to in Infiltration? (I'm guessing 4 DF tokens based on the Extract card, making each DF token about $25 in prototype terms.)
Loot randomization: In Infiltration, the DF tokens are worth random amounts from 1-3. Based on your description, it seems this might not have been the case in the prototype. Was there some kind of loot randomization process?
2 loot lock types seem a bit redundant (Lab Workers and Tech Locks in Infiltration): Was there a corresponding mechanic in the prototype? If so, why two types?
Random NPCs: Were each of them tied to a room like in Infiltration or were they randomized as well, as suggested in Infiltration's Scattered NPCs variant?
Concerning the end-game: Did you ever have or consider other methods of luck pushing near the end, such as: a faster method of retreat at a cost (e.g. dropping loot to be able to retreat 2 rooms at a time); or losing loot per round that players are still in the factory after reaching 99 proximity?
Game end timing: Did the prototype end at 99 proximity immediately like in Infiltration or at the end of the round reaching 99?
Specialist variant: Infiltration lists a Specialist variant where you start the game with 2 specific items per player character (and randomize/draft the other two) to make them seem differentiated. Did the prototype have such a mechanic?
Secret room / basement: In Infiltration there's one secret room from three special cards. Was the entrance to the basement via up to two specific rooms like in Infiltration? Seems like that wouldn't work as well if the card drawn for the basement was one of the go-to-basement rooms. What was the design goal here?
Room differences: How much were the rooms changed from the prototype? Were they just sorted into the three decks? Or were there massive changes?

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: April 07, 2019, 08:05:50 pm »
I recently found a copy of Infiltration in excellent condition, and I can see that changing it to be closer to your Factory Job prototype would greatly benefit the gameplay. This has naturally gotten me curious about precisely how the prototype played.

I know you've been reluctant—and contractually obligated in the past—to giving the full Secret History due to issues with the publishing process, which is fine.
However, I'd like to know more about the prototype rules so I can play the game in basically its submitted prototype form, using the published components if possible. I've read every post I could find that you've made on the subject and I'm still having to guess a lot.

Would you compare and contrast the precise differences (outside of theming) between the prototype and published versions, with the expectation that this wouldn't include the reason behind the changes?

7
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Are promos worth it?
« on: February 05, 2019, 12:48:08 am »
For people who think Black Market is one of the best: how do you do the setup IRL?  It sounds unusable.

Use an app with virtual Black Market deck support. It can simulate a Black Market deck for you. If someone buys the actual card you then dig it out, that way you only have to fish for the cards you need.
Can you suggest any?  People keep saying this, but I have yet to find one that does more than pick out the BM cards.
From the Android side there's both Kingdom Shuffler for Dominion and Dominion Picker with virtual Black Market deck options. Dominion Picker doesn't have Nocturne or Renaissance yet, though.

I don't use iOS enough right now to speak to what's available there.

8
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Request: Online image for token/materials
« on: February 04, 2019, 11:00:08 pm »
What do you need them for? Do you have pictures and want to post them? Do you want someone else to take pictures with a particular composition or angle?

I could post some pictures on the wiki if I could work them into an article if you'd like. I don't have second edition Adventures tokens yet, though.

9
I always though Smugglers and Changeling should have a "name a card" clause to make it clear you don't have to select a card that is available in the Supply.

Smugglers: Name a card costing up to $6 that the player to your right gained on their last turn. Gain a copy of it.

Changeling: Trash this. Name a card you have in play. Gain a copy of it. ----
In games using this, when you gain a card costing $3 or more, you may exchange it for a Changeling.

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Are promos worth it?
« on: January 14, 2019, 11:43:28 am »
For people who think Black Market is one of the best: how do you do the setup IRL?  It sounds unusable.

Use an app with virtual Black Market deck support. It can simulate a Black Market deck for you. If someone buys the actual card you then dig it out, that way you only have to fish for the cards you need.

Another reasonable option is Donald's method with the 10th copy of each card as your randomizer decks. This can get unwieldy if you want to have a Black Market deck with cards from several expansions, though.

I've also played with a curated Black Market deck, but this is very time-consuming.

12
Rules Questions / Re: Bureaucrat and Tunnel
« on: December 19, 2018, 02:59:58 pm »
I am unsure if discarding is rigidly defined in the base set manual, but the implicit definition of discarding (from hand) is placing cards from your hand into the aptly-named Discard Pile. Putting cards from hand anywhere else, is thus not discarding.

Both 1st and 2nd edition base set manuals define discarding on page 7. The 1st edition Intrigue manual defines it on page 3. Whether or not that definition is rigid enough is, obviously, debatable, though to me it seems pretty solid.

13
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Replacing Dominion cards
« on: December 14, 2018, 05:21:06 pm »
This reminds me that I lost one of my Fishing Villages :(
I lost a whole City! Has anyone seen my Lost City?
But if we found it, it'd be just a City!
True. Maybe I shouldn't bother looking for it.

Don't. If you get it back the other players still get to draw.

14
I feel like pointing out again that Secret Cave is a lighter orange, just like Cargo Ship, and no-one ever reported this.

I actually did notice the different color on Secret Cave, but I didn't think much of it. It certainly wasn't impacting gameplay and I didn't consider it worth reporting. I'm very much looking forward to playing with the new Renaissance cards.

I'm just happy Donald takes the time he does to help the game he designed be the best product it can be. Not all game designers put in that much effort and not all publishers are as accommodating to those designers that are so dedicated.

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Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance rulebook is up
« on: November 05, 2018, 12:53:21 pm »
Just for seeking clarity, it looks like Patron doesn't require the word "reveal" with those 6 letters only, but rather it must use the reveal game mechanic. Is this true? Meaning cards that cause revealing to happen with other parts of speech like "reveals" (e.g. Scrying Pool) or "revealing" (e.g. Shepherd), etc. still work?
This would mean if I reveal for Villan because I can't discard due to Villan's condition (say with cost reduction so that Patron costs less than $2), I get +1 Coffers for each Patron in my hand, despite the wording being "(or reveals they can't)".

If it is just r-e-v-e-a-l that counts, then this is going to be a nightmare for translated versions.

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Complexity of Dominion
« on: October 03, 2018, 06:02:07 pm »
The base rules document for Dominion is about 8 pages of relatively user-friendly text with pictures (excluding parts that aren't rules). If you tack on the unique rules for all the expansions, it might take another 6 pages if you condense examples. The currently complete rules document would be about 10-15 pages long, depending on formatting and verbosity of the examples given. Most of the expansions rules documents are taken up by the notes (which aren't rules relevant in nearly all cases) and recommended sets (thank you Donald, these are wonderful).

It wouldn't be as detailed in timing as other documents meticulously made by others here, but would be essentially complete.

Seems to me that it is much simpler.

The complexity is in the interaction of the card mechanics, not in the rules, which for me makes it more strategically interesting than Magic, but also more approachable.

18
Soooo Amazon has two "products" - one with ASIN B003D3OD4K, one with ASIN B01KBSHD5K.  I'm assuming the first is the reprint?  Is that conclusive?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003D3OD4K is clearly the official one. It looks like they are not using a different ASIN for both editions. The other one is a third party seller that didn't list under the same ASIN like they were supposed to. Maybe you'll have to buy and hope it is the 2nd edition? I'm sure the one you'll receive is a random stock issue. If they have more of the old one, you'll might get the old one randomly. I have no idea if they have the new one yet.

You could always return it if it is the old one and just say the Possession card was defective in your copy because it didn't reference debt tokens. :)

19
Flag bearer is my favourite art until now :p

I have trouble seeing how good Treasurer is:

The first option is a slightly better Moneylender, which isn't bad but isn't worth 5$. The second option is really good if there's Trash-for-Benefit (etc), but not all games have that, and then it's pretty useless. Which leaves the last option, which is comparable to Merchant Ship if you keep the Key for one turn, gets better if you keep it any longer, but is underwhelming if it's taken away from you before then.

I guess in games without TfB, all players buy one just to prevent someone from keeping the Key all game long.

If you can know (or guess) that the other player(s) can't play a Treasurer before the next time you do, you can use it to hide extra money in the trash that you don't need this turn via the second option, kind of like a weird terminal Crypt variant. Just played a game where that was a factor. Not always applicable, but interesting sometimes.

20
Actually, I wasn't aware that "drawing your hand" was a term with a specific definition. It obviously has to apply to drawing a new hand of cards during Clean-up. It probably doesn't apply to mid-turn discard-your-hand-and-draw effects (Guide, Minion, Scholar). But what about drawing after Donate?

Outpost says: "you only draw 3 cards for your next hand", and Expedition says: "Draw 2 extra cards for your next hand". The rulebook refers to "draw a new hand" as what you do during Clean-up. So apparently "draw hand", (and variously "draw new hand", "draw next hand") is the term applied only to the drawing of your hand in the Clean-up phase.

Donate happens after Clean-up (after your turn). So if you had Flag and bought Donate, you would have six cards in hand, then perform Donate, then draw 5 cards.

21
With so many Dominion expansions now (13 including base set), it would be wonderful if Dominion Online allowed for rated formats where you only play with the latest expansion (or some other officially-chosen subset, like a "standard" rotation). Similar to what other popular card games have done after they have been around for a while and keep releasing new cards (e.g. Magic: The Gathering and Hearthstone).

Personally I'm finally starting to be familiar with all the cards in the Silver subscription, but I'd rather skip learning all of the rules quirks and strategy subtleties in Adventurers, Empires, and Nocturne, and just jump directly to Renaissance. The rules of Dominion are just getting more complicated with each new expansion. Playing in person encourages only buying or playing with a couple of expansions at once, which works very well, but playing online requires playing with every card ever printed (at least, if you want to play competitively and/or in the official tournaments).

You can just use the Familiar Cards settings in Dominon Online to just play with the cards you want. Mark everything but Adventures, Empires, and Nocturne as familiar and set it so you won't play with any unfamiliar cards. Should solve your problem, except for subscribing to sets individually if Renaissance isn't included in the Silver subscription.

Dominion is so much smaller than Magic: the Gathering (or other CCGs). Even the current "Standard" rotation from Magic includes like 2000 cards (from a history of tens of thousands of cards). All of Dominion 2nd Edition, as of Renaissance, will include 322 Kingdom cards, 34 Events, 21 Landmarks, and most likely no more than a total of 23 Artifacts and Projects. That's only a small fraction of the complexity. Also, Dominion cards tend to not completely exhaust a design space so there is plenty of room to interact with older cards in interesting ways.

I'm not seeing the great need for an additional format in Dominion Online that doesn't include some of the cards, especially since you can mostly do that with Familiar Cards settings. I wouldn't mind seeing a "2 sets, 5 cards from each" format or setting, though.

Just my 2 cents.

22
Based on the description, it's possible that the same physical tokens would be used for both the action and coin tokens, just with different mats (Coffers mat and "Action coin tokens mat").

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So what will action tokens be called?  If we follow the pattern so far, they’ll be called Acffers.

I'm thinking something around the theme of more people. That's supposedly how Villages got their name. The idea being populated places (with more people) allow you to do more things.
Maybe "Workers", "Contractors", "Employees", though it could be something more Renaissance-themed, like "Patron". Hopefully something better than all of those.


24
I'm not really seeing how Nocturne can be considered a Dark Ages sequel. The art and names are "dark" but that's the only similarity. The actual mechanics are not a continuation of Dark Ages' trashing theme.

I said roughly speaking. There are quite a number of similarities from Dark Ages to Nocturne. Namely:
  • Very large expansion (500 cards)
  • Cards that you can only get via other cards (like Madman, Mercenary and Spoils from Dark Ages)
  • Cards that replace cards in your starting deck (Heirlooms instead of Shelters)
  • Cards that interact with trashing (Necromancer, Haunted Mirror)

25
Just a thought (roughly speaking):

Adventures = Seaside sequel
Empires = Prosperity sequel
Nocturne = Dark Ages sequel
Renaissance = Guilds Sequel (looks like returning coin tokens Coffers)

And as we all know, Guilds was a Masterpiece (or 10).

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