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Messages - mDuo13

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1
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« on: June 29, 2022, 06:22:43 pm »
Also I notice from the Dominion Wiki that the man depicted on Berserker is based on the same person as for Navigator.

Based purely on the art, it looks like Dale Yu has an awful lot less hair and a lot more anger at the world than he did back when Seaside 1st edition came out. I guess it has been a pretty tough 13 years or so. I like to imagine that the character depicted in both cards might also be the same person after some tough years at sea or something. Unclear what the other cards in his traveller pile would be though!

2
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: December 12, 2012, 07:55:06 pm »
Online Market
Action - $7
+1 Card, +1 Action
You may buy any number of cards this turn. Reduce the costs of all cards by $2 while this is in play, but increase the cost of the first card you buy this turn by $5 to cover shipping and handling. (The shipping cost cannot be reduced.)
----
You can't buy this if you have any treasures in play.

3
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« on: September 13, 2012, 06:25:53 pm »
I'm not sure about general applicability, but I've seen Poor House be a great card... to target with Band of Misfits. Strange, that you'd spend $5 to get a card that imitates a $1, but the point of Band of Misfits is you can choose to make it a Poor House when that means getting $4 (or even $3), and make it something else when you have treasures in your hand.

As for situations where you want to actually buy the Poor House itself: pretty situational. My gut tells me it's probably better than Diadem on average. Then again, I haven't yet seen the (theoretical) situations where Poor House is actually a net loss of money.

I agree with Copper's placement on the list. Actually I agree with most of the list. There's obviously a humungous gap between "The Good" and "The Bad" but there are certainly times (more often than people think) where having plenty of Copper in your deck is a good thing.

Hovel is especially annoying on a few boards because it's a typeless card for almost anything that cares about card types (Ironworks, Ironmonger -- or, on the plus side, Tribute). Sooooo much worse than an Estate.

4
I agree with dondon151: 1 Potion only for most cases. It's especially useless late game unless there's a Vineyard on the board. (How're you supposed to turn Potions into VP? Upgrade them into Duchies. ;) Obviously Vineyard needs a lot of Potions.

I find that with Alchemist, usually 2 Potions is the magic number. I rarely want to dilute my deck farther, but with only 1 Potion I don't draw into it often enough to keep stacking the Alchemists.

5
Game Reports / Re: This made me grin.
« on: July 31, 2012, 04:07:14 pm »
He actually had another Possessed turn on me after this one, so he played the Fishing Village and passed.

He probably would've been safe playing the Golem -- I had 1 or 2 Possessions remaining in my deck at the time and at least 5 or 6 other non-Golem actions (a couple Labs, FVs, a Watchtower and a Haggler) but I guess he decided not to risk it.

Ultimately I won in a close three-pile that was decided by Estates.

6
Game Reports / Re: Using watchtower to trash Embassy-gifted silvers
« on: July 31, 2012, 04:04:12 pm »
What a precarious deck!

I'm impressed you stuck with it throughout; personally I'd've probably been tempted by the Tournament and Ambassador in your Black Market, and that probably would've diluted my deck just enough to ruin me in your position.

7
Game Reports / This made me grin.
« on: July 31, 2012, 03:29:32 pm »
A picture is worth more than words here:

8
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greatest Isotropic Moments of 2012
« on: July 17, 2012, 05:23:12 pm »
Not exactly the "greatest" moment, but I found this interesting:

father patrick's turn 14
father patrick plays a Steward.
... getting +$2.
father patrick plays a Silver.
father patrick plays a Silver.
father patrick buys a Farmland.
... trashing a Copper.
... gaining an Estate.

(this was his final turn of the game)

So... in essence, this poor soul paid $6 to get as many VP as a Duchy ($5)... while reducing the money density of his deck by 3 cards (losing a copper, gaining 2 different green cards). The irony is, this kind of move would make sense if he had any Silk Roads. They were in the kingdom... but he didn't buy any. D'oh!

9
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: June 03, 2012, 03:55:15 pm »
THAT'S IT! EVERYBODY DIES!
Action - $15
Trash all cards in play, in the supply, in players' decks, and in players' hands.

10
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Anime Dominon; huhwhat!?
« on: May 31, 2012, 04:51:05 pm »
I encountered the Nitro+ one of these at an anime con recently. I didn't pick them up (they wanted USD $100 for something that was originally JPY 5300 or something) but I'm looking at getting a copy sometime.

The import site I usually use for Japanese card games and goods only seems to have Vol. 2, the "Majide Watashi ni Koishinasai! D" one. I'm not too big on that series so I probably won't get it, but looking at the preview cards was kind of amusing:

This one is Mountebank
Rabble
Militia
Oasis (warning: sorta NSFW)

It looks like it would be about $66+international shipping to get it. Oh, and the set includes 12 blank cards (interesting).

11
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Decks of only one kingdom card
« on: May 17, 2012, 08:52:14 pm »
How about King's Court?
You're silly. You may as well go with Scheme. Obviously you wouldn't win, but boy you'd be rubbing your hands together in anticipation all game long.

By the way: Talisman would be a funny play here. It wouldn't beat the Expand player, but it would win on turns as Player 2 vs. any strategy that doesn't gain VP on turn 1.

12
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Theoretical Maximum Points in Deck
« on: May 17, 2012, 08:33:35 pm »
Did some calculations here. I think it's a complete solution now.

(Too big to spoiler, be warned)













Base VP cards = 8+24+48+80 = 160 points

There are 11 Kingdom victory cards to consider: Duke, Fairgrounds, Farmland, Gardens, Great Hall, Harem, Island, Nobles, Silk Road, Tunnel, and Vineyard. The fixed-value cards are easy to calculate:

Great Hall = 8*1 = 8 points total.
Harem/Nobles/Tunnel/Island/Farmland = 8*2 = 16 points total.

We should keep in mind for later that Farmland forces us to remodel a card if we buy it normally. Luckily, we can also probably arrange to gain it another way, depending on what Actions are available.

Duke is also easy: 8 Duchies means 8 points per Duke, for a pile worth 64 points total.

Vineyard is worth nothing with just the base cards, but it has the highest potential, with up to 344 points total. [25-action black market deck, a 10-action YW bane pile, 4 action-Prizes from Tournament, plus 9*10 actions in the supply (Vineyard takes a Kingdom space itself), for a max of 129 total actions, or 43 points per Vineyard, *8 Vineyards = 344 VP.] However, each normal kingdom Action card is worth (10/3 = 3.33 VP) per Vineyard, or 26.67 points overall. Each Victory-Action card is worth (8/3 = 2.67 VP) per vineyard, or 21.33 points overall. Young Witch is basically a free Action (26.67 points) in the supply as long as the bane is something we would've included anyway. Each Action card in the Black Market is worth 1/3 of a point per Vineyard, or 2.67 points overall, which makes Black Market worth up to (35 / 3 = 11.67 VP) per Vineyard, or 93.33 in total.

We can therefore conclude that no non-action Kingdom pile worth less than 26.67 points overall is worth including in the Kingdom, and no non-Action card worth less than 2.67 points is worth including in the Black Market deck, except where Vineyard's rounding means that we won't go below the threshold by including said card.

Gardens provides less challenge to the kingdom constraints. The 183 base cards (excluding Curses), and minimum of 8*10 kingdom cards (an all-green kingdom) still totals 263 cards, which we can supplement with 7 curses for a minimum of 216 Gardens points minus 7 Curse points for 209. By the way, buying Curses is good for Gardens if you can buy less than 8 to set it over a new threshold, and bad otherwise. Each non-Victory action card (including the bane) adds another (2/10 = 0.2 VP) to each Gardens or 1.6 points overall. Black Market adds another (25 / 10 = 2.5 VP) per Gardens, 20 points overall. Tournament adds another (5 / 10 = 0.5 VP) each, for 4 points overall. Again, Young Witch is basically a free bonus if you would use the bane. In grand total, Gardens' maximum value is 256 points [183 non-Curse base cards, 9*10 non-Victory Kingdom cards, 8 Gardens themselves, 25-card Black Market deck, 10 extra bane cards, and 5 Tournament prizes bring it to a grand total of 321 cards in deck, or 32 points per Gardens].

Silk Road is the real conflict with Vineyards. It wants an "all-green" Kingdom, where it's worth a maximum of 224 points total [(10 piles * 8 victory cards), plus the 32 base victory cards, equalling (112 / 4 = 28) points per Silk Road]. With just itself and the base Victory cards, a full stack of Silk Roads is worth (56 / 4 = 112) points. Each kingdom Victory card you add increases each Silk Road's value by (8/4 = 2) points, or 16 points total. Meanwhile, each Victory card in the Black Market is worth (1/4 VP per Silk Road) or 2 VP total. Given that this is lower than the value of having Action cards there for Vineyards, we probably won't do it except to round out some thresholds.

Finally we have Fairgrounds. With an ordinary set, the full stack is worth just 63 after accounting for Curse damage [10 Base Cards and 10 Kingdom cards means ((20/5)*2 = 8 VP) each or 64 total, minus 1 from having a Curse]. Adding Young Witch lets us buy the bane instead of a Curse, netting just 1 point. But then there's Black Market. 25 unique Black Market Cards means a net of ((25/5)*2 = 10 VP) each, or 80 total. Tournament's 5 Prizes also contribute 1 point per Fairgrounds for a total of 16 on the pile. In grand total, that means Fairgrounds is worth up to 160 points in the ideal situation: [9 non-Curse base cards, 10 kingdom cards, 1 bane, 25 Black Market cards, and 5 Tournament prizes = 2*(50 cards/5) = 20 points each].

Now we can start to draw conclusions. Including Gardens in our Kingdom is a no-brainer: it's worth a ton of points regardless of what else we include. It also seems hard to beat Vineyards' 26.67 points-per-pile base, so we'll throw that in. Now that we have at least 48 victory cards in the supply, Silk Road will be worth a minimum of 96 points as a pile, making it also a must-have.

We can evaluate how much we gain by including various different cards in our deck: a normal Treasure adds 8 points (Gardens only), an Action adds 29.33 points (Gardens + Vineyard), and a Victory card adds its own value plus 18.4 points (Gardens + Silk Road). Given this, it's safe to include both Duke and Fairgrounds, whose values are already much higher than these generics. That brings us to 5 cards in the Kingdom.

Next, let's consider hybrid cards Nobles, Island, and Great Hall: because [compared to, say, a Kingdom Treasure card] each pile makes Vineyards worth overall 21.33 points more and makes Silk Roads worth overall 16 points more, while being worth 8-16 VP on their own, and subtracting a mere 1.6 Gardens points each -- an overall increase of about 43-51 points each. The synergy with Vineyards makes even Great Hall worth more than Harem, Farmland, and Tunnel. Got to include them.

So we're up to 8 Kingdom cards, and we haven't even considered Young Witch, Black Market, or Tournament. Black Market is the easiest sell (hurr hurr) because it gives Gardens 20 points and, depending on how we stack it, up to 66.67 points for Vineyard. Tournament is worth (Gardens 4 + Fairgrounds 16 + Vineyard 31.67 = 51.67 points), while Young Witch with a random Bane is worth (Gardens 8 + Fairgrounds 1 + 26.67 Vineyard = 35.67 points). All three of these are above the 29.33-point baseline for a generic Action card (Tournament just barely). We can fit all three if we make Black Market or Great Hall the Bane.

Alright, we've included or ruled out all our candidates for the main kingdom except for Farmland, Tunnel, and Harem. Let's double-check those against the cards in our Kingdom. All three piles are worth 16 intrinsically, plus 18.4 points by powering up Gardens and Silk Road, for 34.4 points apiece. In other words, Tournament just barely edges out all of them, because it contributes better to Fairgrounds, Vineyard, and Gardens, despite not helping Silk Road.

So there's our final Kingdom:
Nobles, Fairgrounds, Duke, Gardens, Silk Road, Island, Tournament, Young Witch, Great Hall, Black Market (Bane), Vineyard.
"But wait!" you say, "How are you going to gain so many cards on the last turn?" That's what the Black Market is for. Let's load it up with good actions. Not only do they power up Vineyards, they'll enable the game-ending mega-turn. There are 21 piles, but we're not emptying Curses and we'll have already emptied two piles, bought out the Black Market, and won all the Prizes. That means we need to gain 18 cards, including the last Colony and Province. There are a lot of ways it could work out, but here's one:

Start with Throne Room, King's Court, and City in hand (all bought from the Black Market). TR->KC, using the first KC on City, and the second on Grand Market, which will draw a total of 9 cards while increasing our available actions to 8 and our buys to 7 total. Let's use Trusty Steed to gain the last Silver(s) and put the deck into the discard, then Counting House to get almost 60 Coppers to our hand. Followers gains us the last Estate, and then we play Princess to drop the cost of everything by $2 and get another +buy. We've got 8 buys now; that's enough to Haggle our way to emptying 16 piles, and we have plenty of cash and actions to do it. (Remember, we emptied 2 piles before this turn and used Followers and Trusty Steed to empty 2 more already.) There are a lot of other cards (Inn, Cellar, Crossroads) that would make this mega-turn way easier to pull off, but they're not strictly necessary.

Alright, now that we've gotten that out of the way, let's figure out what's in the Black Market. My solution to buying everything required Throne Room, King's Court, City, Grand Market, and Counting House to be in the Black Market, plus prizes that we would have already anyway. This means we have up to 20 cards in the Black Market to arrange as we like. We have a total of 96 victory cards in deck (8*4 basic + 8*8 kingdom), so even adding one copy each of the remaining 3 Victory cards to the Black Market won't help our Silk Roads at all. But on the other hand, if we make 23 of our Black Market cards actions, then we have 81 actions total, powering up our Vineyards to 27 points each. That means we still have 2 spots leftover in the Black Market which we can't use to power up Vineyards or Silk Road, so we may as well put Harem and Tunnel for 2VP each. We have 307 cards in the deck now, not having bought any Curses, so we may as well buy 3 of those to bring our Gardens to the next level and gain a net of +5 VP (-3 from Curses, +1 to each of 8 Gardens).

So our final deck has VP in the following amounts
Estates: 8x1 = 8
Duchies: 8x3 = 24
Provinces: 8x6 = 48
Colonies: 8x10 = 80
Curses: 3x-1 = -3
Great Halls: 8x1 = 8
Nobles: 8x2 = 16
Islands: 8x2 = 16
Gardens = 8x31 = 248
Vineyards = 8x27 = 216
Silk Roads = 8x24 = 192
Fairgrounds = 8x20 = 160
Dukes = 8x8 = 64
Tunnel = 1x2 = 2
Harem = 1x2 = 2

Grand total: 1081 points.

EDIT: fixed a couple typos as mentioned by the comments below

13
Puzzles and Challenges / Theoretical Maximum Points in Deck
« on: May 16, 2012, 08:36:20 pm »
querty31 challenged players, "What's the theoretical maximum number of points in your final deck, if you buy ALL the cards in the supply?" Obviously, the answer is "infinite" since you can use Monument or Bishop to gain VP chips forever.

But let us consider a different question: what's the theoretical maximum number of points in your final deck, discounting VP chips, and which Kingdom cards make this score possible?

EDIT: Ah, there were other topics. I should've known. Well, whatever, let's update the solution with Hinterlands cards. I'm sure at least a certain one will make a difference. Also, let's get more specific with the setup rules. For convenience, we'll base it on Isotropic's setup:

  • Solo game. (8x each for Victory cards)
  • Colonies included. (Bonus points for figuring out the Province equivalent to this puzzle, though.)
  • Black Market is allowed, but fixed to 25 cards (like in Isotropic). Your choice which ones.
  • Potions will be included if any of your Kingdom/BM cards has a Potion cost.
  • 53x Copper in supply (In addition to the 7x in your starting deck.)
  • 40x Silver, 16x Potion, 30x Gold, 12x Platinum, 10x Curse
  • If your deck includes Young Witch, you can decide what the Bane is.
  • You are not required to buy all the Curses. You can choose to buy some if you want, though.
  • Optionally, take into account how many cards it's legally possible to end the game with in your deck. You can't three-pile out early, so you'll probably need a source of +buy and either cost reduction or card draw in order to buy the last 1 of almost-everything; or you can see how high you can get without any +buy or other gaining.

Full disclosure: I'm not actually sure what the answer is. There are 11 kingdom victory cards, most of which would play well with each other except Vineyard -- which would only get points for your Great Halls, Nobles, and Islands. Each of the (8x) Vineyards is worth an additional ~3.3 points for each Action card in the Kingdom, which suggests that Harem is probably not a key card in the ideal Kingdom. Meanwhile, to optimize Fairgrounds, you need Black Market (and to a much lesser extent, Tournament) available. But on the other hand, Silk Road is worth an additional 2 points for each Victory card in the Kingdom, so it doesn't want you to waste Kingdom spaces on non-Green cards...

14
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Checkmate
« on: May 16, 2012, 07:55:58 pm »
wow, I'm impressed with some of the answers people have come up with here!

As for winning by a pin, though, I think that, in the absence of any of the other solutions mentioned here, you may or may not be able to actually "win" the game by performing a pin. If any non-$0 pile runs out, then your opponent will be able to end the game eventually by buying out the Coppers and Curses; in that case, then it depends whether he was so far ahead he can afford the -VP from Curses. If no other pile runs out, then the game's basically in a stalemate.

If you were in this situation with your life on the line, I guess it depends on whether your captors were nice enough to acknowledge the stalemate as a tie and give you another chance. ;)

15
Getting $7 for like four turns in a row.

16
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Has Isotropic crashed?
« on: May 09, 2012, 03:49:40 pm »
I figured it was something like that, but I still worried that someday soon when the real app is available, it's going to be kind of like this...

17
This is tough.

My first attempt:
Action: When you draw this, you may play it immediately. If you do, $1 for every Action you have available. Otherwise: $1.

Another one. I like this better:
Action: When you draw this, if you have any Actions available, you may reveal it to play it immediately. Rearrange the top 4 cards of your deck.

18
Puzzles and Challenges / Checkmate
« on: May 05, 2012, 02:45:32 pm »
Suppose your opponent (or one of your opponents if it's a 3+ game) already has just over half of each of the Victory cards available in his deck. (For example, he has 4 Provinces, 4 Duchies, 4 Great Halls, and 5+3 Estates in a non-Propserity 2-player game.) You know that your opponent won't make any obvious play mistakes to give you the game, such as trashing his own VP cards for less value.

If you want to continue playing as long as it's still possible to win, as long as any chance of victory exists with perfect shuffle luck and perfect play on your part, what cards and strategies do you look for?

Come up with as many solutions as possible.

Here's everything I can think of:

* VP chips: Monument, Bishop, Goons.
* Curse-givers: As long as you can get the remaining almost-half of all VP cards and deal out more than half the curses, you can win. I won't bother listing every cursing attack possible.
* Variable-value Kingdom VP cards: Gardens, Fairgrounds, Vineyards. If you can make yours worth more than his, then you can win with less than half of the VP cards. Unfortunately, Silk Roads and Dukes don't work, since you can't get more supporting VP cards than he does.
* Masquerade: There's some chance he'll draw an all-green hand and have no choice but to pass one to you. Bonus: make it more likely with Minion. Or go for a KC/Masquerade pin.
* Possession + Ambassador: Make him return green cards to you.
* Saboteur: Destroy his VP cards and replace them with lower-denomination cards. Bonus: make it more likely to hit high-value cards using Highways/Bridges
* Swindler: Convert his VP cards into non-VP cards. (Duchies to $5 actions, Provinces to Peddlers) Bonus: use Highways/Bridges and Swindle things into Coppers or Curses.

19
This came up in a game I was playing today. I think my opponent and I both looked at the board and concluded that rushing to Possession wouldn't be as strong as Horse Traders / Duke, so we went that way, but due to a couple of factors including shuffle luck and buying Coppers more diligently, I ended up winning the Duchy split, so my opponent changed tactics. He went for Governor/Ambassador/Possession; never did really manage to pull it off before ending the game, but it left me wondering. Had he started out that way, rather than trying to win the Duchy race, or perhaps on a different board without Duke, wouldn't that be a really good strategy?

To be painfully obvious, the combo works like so: You start by using Governor/Ambassador to build up a solid deck with golds and stuff in order to buy Possession. You buy several Ambassadors and use them to give Ambassadors to your opponent [even if they avoided buying Ambassadors because they saw Possession on the board]. Then you take megaturns with Governor's +3 cards, ending in Possession on your opponent; the fact that they've drawn so many cards off your Governors means that it's likely their good & green cards will collide with the Ambassadors you've been sending them, so you can then use Ambassadors during their Possessed turn to pass the cards back to yourself. As an added bonus, the possessed turn "eats up" the bonus cards you give them off Governor's +3, leaving them with just a normal turn. Even with no +Action or +Buy on the board, it seems like you could easily cause a 4-Province (or 4-Colony) swing in "one" turn, by buying one on your turn and returning two on the possessed turn. If your opponent's deck has good money, you might even manage to buy one using their mega-hand after sending yourself their green cards, for a theoretical total swing of:
* +1 Province on your turn
* -2 Provinces to opponent during possessed turn (Ambassador)
* +1 Province to yourself during possessed turn (same Ambassador)
* +1 Province using opponent's money on possessed turn
--------
= 30-point swing (Province game)

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to test it out (doesn't seem easy to test in solitaire mode) but I'm really curious if anyone else has managed to get this to pay off. Is it too slow? Pipe dream? Or does it seem actually viable, given the availability of all 3 cards?

20
You just need to change the font color.

CCCEECC
I can't tell if you're serious, but that hurts my eyes.

I don't like using X (for reasons Jorbles covered), Q seems unintuitive, and U could be Upgrade or something... Tough call all around.

21
You could potentially use this to your advantage in some cases. If you're already ahead, then Swindling your opponents' green cards is a good thing. Late game this is especially if there's a non-VP card you can replace them with, such as turning a Duchy into a Counting House, or a Province into a Peddler.

But as an early/midgame strategy, yeah, bad idea. Rabble and Jester works much better.

22
I love Isotropic, but (to get back on track of this topic) there are little quirks that annoy me. Throne Room / Ambassador is definitely one that has hurt me the most before, but there are a couple others I didn't see mentioned yet:

In my experience, the money autoplay is really safe about only playing as much as you definitely want to play... unless Farmland is on the board. Then it's a really tough question what treasures you actually want to play. Still, I'd appreciate having a "click again to confirm" behavior (like for when playing your money when you can still play action cards) when you can reach at least $6 with cards remaining in hand and Farmland on the board.

And I really wish the "info" board state stuff was shown without needing to click for a popup.

I can only hope that whatever online client Rio Grande comes up with takes some lessons from Isotropic.

23
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: April 19, 2012, 03:02:21 am »
Inflation ($1)
Action - Duration
While this card is in play, all numbers on all other cards are increased by 1.
Remains in play.

Holy crud.  If you have two inflations in play, infinite numbers!!!!  Awesome!
That's when you play Bishop and laugh maniacally.

24
Game Reports / Another game where Thief is awesome
« on: April 18, 2012, 07:40:16 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/18/game-20120418-152025-bda7007f.html

Normally I'm not a fan of King's Court boards because I hate just trying to hit $7 and then collide the KC with useful actions (and each other). But in this game, I immediately saw Chapel/Treasure Map and then realized that there was a next-order strategy in Chapel/Thief to reach King's Court. I was able to easily steal all his treasure, and then use KC/Young Witch to break the tie. I was a little worried he'd get 5 Provinces before me, and he did a very clever defensive move after losing most of his treasure by buying Cache, but it all worked out in the end.

I love it when I find a good use for a generally bad card. Although I have to wonder if there's another strategy that tops mine on this board.

25
Game Reports / Re: Piles! Sea Hag/Hamlet/Woodcutter/Vineyards
« on: April 18, 2012, 07:23:27 pm »
Nice! I think Vineyards is an excellent card and I'm still surprised on what kinds of boards it's viable.

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