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1
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Contest #40: Prize gainer and Prize
« on: August 16, 2019, 03:10:52 pm »


A remodel variant that can give you a Prize instead if you trash something expensive enough.



A powerful Courtyard variant. Each existing Prize fills its own niche: Need a Lab variant or something versatile? Trusty Steed. Need +Buys or cost reduction? Princess. Have more leftover Actions than you know what to do with? Diadem. Need a way to gain more Golds? Bag of Gold. Need a way to Attack? Followers. And now, if you need some source of terminal draw or a way to mitigate terminal collisions? Promenade has got you covered.

Version History:
Promote:
v1.0: Original version.
Promenade:
v1.0: Original version.
v1.1: Second topdeck is optional.

2
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 14, 2019, 11:42:22 am »
Thanks, this was really helpful. For now, I'm going to change SoH to this:

Quote
Do this up to two times: play an action card from your hand twice. You may put any cards played with this onto your deck when you discard them from play.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Changes the order to a simple throned throne, and only schemes the played cards. I will probably change it further, maybe take out the scheming, or take out doing it twice. Thoughts?

It has the accountability issue of first edition Throne Room; although it's also awkward to stick a "may" in there after saying "do this twice". Perhaps "do this up to twice"?

It already says that in the post you're quoting...

I feel like in general, people are making their prizes way too powerful. Keep in mind the current prizes. Princess gives you +buy and -2 cost (can't be throned). It's good, but not an amazingly powerful card. Bag of gold gives a gold on top of your deck. Nice, but again not game-changing. Trusty steed and followers are great (probably worth $7 or more) but they don't absolutely break the game.

Master of ceremonies has no cost limit or nor supply limit. probably worth at least $8 (and you probably won't have terminal problems)

Craftsman pretty much allows you to gain any card and then play it. it might have diminishing returns, but prizes generally come at the end of the game so you probably won't be able to play it past its use anyway. Again, very very powerful.

Seat of honor can be better than kings court. You can TR 2 cards then top deck seat of honor to do it again next turn.

Winged sandals first option is better than champions (with the only caveat, that it's not permanent). Still way too game changing. Also combined with amulet, this can be crazy.

Prizes are supposed to be good, but they're not supposed to be crazy. Before any of you defend these cards just think; are there really that many situations that you would take a bag of gold, princess, amulet, or even trusty steed over these cards? And would they have the same effect? These cards are not only so good, they can work in almost any situation (unlike followers, which works better if there's no cursing or trashing, but not so good otherwise, or princess which is much better when there's no +buy).

P.S. Maybe it is just me. I just thought I'd put it out there.

It's not just you. I agree full-heartedly.

3
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 11, 2019, 12:10:17 pm »

I think you must not realize that if Cultivate DOES trigger, it's strictly better than Caravan.

It's a big if though.

Not really. It's a pretty small if in the early game and in the greening stage, so you'd mainly be buying them early, which is when price matters most. I'd say it would be justified at .

Even when you do trigger it it isn't strictly better than Caravan, you have to discard the victory.

My take on this is that it's probably too potent in the opening for a $2 cantrip, so I'd start it at $3.

Discarding Victories doesn't really mean much, though, unless it's one of the few Action or Treasure - Victory cards. They were just sitting in your hand doing nothing, anyway.

4
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 11, 2019, 10:53:22 am »

I think you must not realize that if Cultivate DOES trigger, it's strictly better than Caravan.

It's a big if though.

Not really. It's a pretty small if in the early game and in the greening stage, so you'd mainly be buying them early, which is when price matters most. I'd say it would be justified at .

5
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 11, 2019, 12:10:53 am »

Quote
Cultivate

+1 Card
+1 Action
-
At the start of your next turn, you may reveal and discard a victory card from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, + $1.

$2
Action - Duration

This is a way too strong for a $2 card. I believe, this should cost somewhere between $3 and $4.

I doubt it. At best it's nothing this turn and next turn play a victory card as if it were a peddler. That's obviously worse than 4. If you don't have a victory in those 5 cards it's nothing. Absent of decks with nobles or mill or something along those lines, it will probably miss most of the time and these become weaker with each play. The fact that it's a duration also means it will miss the reshuffle more often and be played less often. Also the actual effect (playing a victory card as a peddler) is delayed which always lowers the cost (fishing village, a delayed Bazaar, costs only $3).

That being said, the effects are kind of vanilla. It's kind of plain for a promo.

I think you must not realize that if Cultivate DOES trigger, it's strictly better than Caravan.

6
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Dynasties
« on: August 10, 2019, 10:06:22 pm »
I think that the new Armoursmith is too strong in general. Its drawback isn't nearly severe enough to justify a effect costing just ; by the time you're drawing your entire deck, you've gotten far more out of Armoursmith than can be justified for a mere .

7
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fly Eagles Fly's Fan Cards
« on: August 09, 2019, 06:50:45 pm »
That's almost certainly too strong. Might be balanced with just the trashing up to two, though.

8
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fly Eagles Fly's Fan Cards
« on: August 09, 2019, 05:55:38 pm »
Here's a proposal for Monk: Trash up to 2 cards from your hand, then draw up to 6 cards in hand. When you play a Convert, +1 VP. This stays in play.
This doesn't seem nearly as strong, maybe too weak? Also, maybe Monk should be renamed Abbott, closer to Teacher and Champion. Thoughts?

Probably too weak. I would suggest making Monk into an optional version of Cathedral, i.e. at the start of each of your turns, you may trash a card from your hand, as well as the +1 VP for playing Converts. I agree with renaming Monk to Abbott.

On the point of weakening Convert to choose 3, I agree with that. That would put it to around the same power level as Hero and Disciple, IMO.

9
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 09, 2019, 02:50:13 pm »
Changing my submission again and for hopefully the last time.


10
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fly Eagles Fly's Fan Cards
« on: August 08, 2019, 10:31:44 pm »
Deposit: The ability to discard only one card and still get the Coffers seems too easy to exploit. It's a Treasure, so you can just play all but one card in your hand and discard that card with the Deposit.

Developer: It should specify whether you get the bonus before or after you resolve the next played card. The only case I can think of where it matters is with Diadem, but it's still best to remove ambiguity wherever possible.

Marsh + Banshee: Banshee seems way too powerful for how easy it is to obtain. Sure, Marsh lets your opponents trash a couple cards once, but in exchange, you get a powerful Attack (which has the wrong types, by the way; it's shown as an Action, but it should be Night - Attack) that would probably be worth at least if it were a Kingdom card. I realize that it has each player start with a Moat Treasure, but that isn't enough to make up for how powerful Banshee is and just nerfs other Attacks as well.

Nymph: While I realize that Asper's card collection is on the front page right now, it's realistically not going to be on the same page as this thread forever. You should probably post a link to his thread if you're going to use his Spells mechanic (especially since that allows easier access to see what the Spells are and how they work).

Medallion: 1. The order of the vanilla bonuses should be in the exact opposite as you have them (Villager, Buy, ). 2. You should probably place an "and" between the +1 Buy and + to make it clearer that the three bonuses aren't separate choices.

Anvil: I would recommend changing the name of this to something like Craftsman. It makes more sense thematically, especially since Anvil sounds like it would be a Treasure.

Asylum: I don't really see the point in the "if you don't have Insane" clause. You already can't take something you already have, by default. The only reason Fool has an "if you don't have Lost in the Woods" clause is because the receiving of the 3 Boons is also connected.

Cook: Seems incredibly strong. I think that just +2 Cards, + would already be a really strong , but this is not just strictly better than that, but significantly better. I would price this at at least, or give it some sort of drawback.

Raconteur: How are you supposed to track this? The timing between making the choice, determining how many cards to draw, and actually receiving your choice's effect is separated by an entire round.

Scientist: If I have 6 Highways in play and nothing else, does Scientist cost or ? The answer depends on whether the Highway's while-in-play effect triggers before or after Scientist's during-your-buy-phase effect. If Highway triggers first, Scientist's price is dropped to then raised to ; if Scientist triggers first, Scientist's price is raised to then dropped to . I would add a parenthetical like "this applies before/after cost reduction" to address this and similar issues.

Trainee: Like I said before, Buys come before .

Viking King: I feel like this can too strongly encourage prolonging the game infinitely with certain Attack cards (such as Urchin or Familiar in particular). Especially since you get double the bonus if you choose an Attack card to Throne.

Convert: Just the +3 Cards, +1 Action combination alone makes this easily the strongest Traveller, by far. And it has 23 more options than that, if I did my math correctly. And is bottom-decked when you don't exchange it for a Monk. Way too strong for a Traveller, and maybe even too powerful for a Traveller.

Monk: Monk is far too much of a "I got it first, so I win" card. Even Champion and Teacher aren't this broken. And it even gives you extra incentive for playing the already insane Converts. And there's a reason that even Champion and Teacher don't (meaningfully) stack like this.

Ice Sculpture: Like what I said about Nymph, you should link to the thread you got the Freezing mechanic from.

Pyramid + Staff: Currently, there's no accountability for Staff since none of the other players actually see any of the cards you looked at.

Alliance: Typos: 1. Choose once of them. 2. +1 Plot per in it's cost, rounded up. 3. Choose one: Put both cards in your hand,

Slum Market: While-in-play clause should be separated via horizontal line (see Highway and Goons, etc.). Typos: 1. Gain a card costing up to ; 2. or +1 Buy, +. 3. While this is I'm in play, ..., choose one: Put it on your deck,

11
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 08, 2019, 05:40:45 pm »
Keyring
Types: Treasure, Duration
Cost: $4
Choose one of the Locked piles. That pile is in the Kingdom while this is in play. Now and at the start of your next turn: +$1, +1 Buy.
Setup: Set aside 3 additional Kingdom piles as Locked piles.
I believe it should put the piles into the "Supply," not the "Kingdom."
I think this is really weak. Players will often buy it because it is a non-terminal source of +Buy, but if that isn't important, players will receive incredibly similar benefit from it without having to buy a $4 Copper. Point being, this can probably cost $2.

Yes, you're right, "Supply" is better.

I also agree that I made it too expensive, but I think it's definitely too good for $2. It's a Silver, with the minus that some $ is delayed, but the plus of +Buys and giving strategic and tactical options regarding what people can gain. I'll make it $3.



I actually strongly disagree with it costing only . It's very similar to my Travelling Shop, which has been fairly thoroughly playtested by now, and Keyring is enough stronger most of the time that I think it has to cost . (The current version of Travelling Shop puts the Items in the Supply instead of only enabling buying them, but still costs .) The only comparison between the two that is unfavorable towards Keyring is that Keyring only unlocks one of the extra piles, but other than that it's a now and next-turn Travelling Shop.

You seem to be forgetting that Keyring gives opponents access to the pile as well.

I realized that shortly after I posted my previous comment. It's probably fine at .

12
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 07, 2019, 11:06:34 pm »
Keyring
Types: Treasure, Duration
Cost: $4
Choose one of the Locked piles. That pile is in the Kingdom while this is in play. Now and at the start of your next turn: +$1, +1 Buy.
Setup: Set aside 3 additional Kingdom piles as Locked piles.
I believe it should put the piles into the "Supply," not the "Kingdom."
I think this is really weak. Players will often buy it because it is a non-terminal source of +Buy, but if that isn't important, players will receive incredibly similar benefit from it without having to buy a $4 Copper. Point being, this can probably cost $2.

Yes, you're right, "Supply" is better.

I also agree that I made it too expensive, but I think it's definitely too good for $2. It's a Silver, with the minus that some $ is delayed, but the plus of +Buys and giving strategic and tactical options regarding what people can gain. I'll make it $3.



I actually strongly disagree with it costing only . It's very similar to my Travelling Shop, which has been fairly thoroughly playtested by now, and Keyring is enough stronger most of the time that I think it has to cost . (The current version of Travelling Shop puts the Items in the Supply instead of only enabling buying them, but still costs .) The only comparison between the two that is unfavorable towards Keyring is that Keyring only unlocks one of the extra piles, but other than that it's a now and next-turn Travelling Shop.

13
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 07, 2019, 11:03:31 pm »


Changing my submission. This is my new one.

Version History:
v1.0: Original version.
v1.1: Raised price to and added cost limit to prevent OPness in Platinum games.

14
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Contest #39: Design a Duration card
« on: August 06, 2019, 12:23:26 am »
Everybody else seems to have taken this challenge to be "design a complicated Duration card," so I'm going to deviate from that norm and post a simple but (hopefully) sweet card that still accomplishes something unique (being a Treasure - Duration card).


15
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 05, 2019, 06:40:48 pm »
Here is my submission:

I don't know if it's worded like this but the idea is that you can veto someone's veto, so if I have played a veto, then play a Village, someone else discards a Veto from play to make me play something else, then I can discard my Veto to be able to play my Village.

As worded, you cannot Veto another Veto. isn't or less.

16
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 05, 2019, 05:53:33 pm »
Here is my submission:


I wanted to do something that prevented cleaning up your cards. Originally, this didn't clean up any cards (including your hand) but then I realized that was too strong. This can work well with while in play effects (highway, groundskeeper, etc.). This works best if you're not drawing your deck every turn. Also when critiquing, note the downsides if you play this before a reshuffle (all your played cards miss the reshuffle).

To preempt people from saying that this is too strong compared to Outpost consider this: If you get a deck that can work with outpost (guide, or a well trashed deck) you can effectively double your turns for the rest of the game. If you have a deck that can draw settlement every turn then settlement doesn't provide a great benefit, since all your played cards can't be played again. If you can't draw settlement every turn, then while it will give you extra turns, it won't double your turns for the rest of the game.

I feel like its too strong to be priced at $5 without an additional restriction. Like if this read "+5 cards, go back to your Action phase" (which is essentially what its saying) thats like a $6 or $7 card. Maybe add a restriction where if its the second Settlement it does that?

It's not quite +5 Cards. It's like what you said (in quotation marks) but with discard your hand first. I still definitely agree that it's too strong for just , though. I'd price it at or add an additional restriction.
I don't get what you said that I put in bold, though. Does what?

17
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« on: August 05, 2019, 05:45:45 pm »

Another card I couldn't remember/find the OP on, this card died forum-wise among a pricing dispute (was priced at $6, that was too little; priced at $9 was too high; etc) - pricing it with a potion, and making it only able to bury a Victory/Curse when initially playing it seems to even it out a bit.

I think it's based on Kru5h's Cell:

Cell

This card is probably way too powerful. Comparable to Hireling I think, but cheaper.

You mention "making it only able to bury a Victory/Curse when initially playing it" as if you've done that, but your card only says "set aside a card." Assistant can bury any kind of card.

Also, you might want to word Assistant like Scheme: "At the start of each of your Clean-up phases, you may exchange a card you would discard from play with the set aside card," because as it's worded currently, it can allow you to get an indefinite amount of effective Hirelings.

18
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Design Challenge: Synergies with Captain!
« on: August 04, 2019, 12:45:04 pm »

yeah sure i'll bite. Here's one that works with captain, workshop, etc as kind of an inverse cost reducer. It's not always gonna be worthwhile (when there's no cards that select by price on the board) but workshopping grand markets sounds pretty chill.

edit: fixed to remove some ambiguity

What exactly does "select" mean here? What does "selecting" a card costing $2 more actually do?

so take a peek at Workshop - "Gain a card costing up to $4" - this is selecting a card from the supply that costs up to $4, then gaining it. This lets you select a card costing up to $6 with it.

Or consider Smugglers. If you have this project, your opponent bought a province last turn, you can smuggle a province.


figured out a cleaner way to phrase the card (i'll change the actual image on monday when im not working off a phone):

During your Action phase, cards everywhere cost $2 less (to a minimum of $0).

Note that this way (unlike the action phase phrasing* I suggested above / earlier), would no longer work with your example of Smugglers.

How would this not work with Smugglers? Provinces cost during your Action phase, when you play Smugglers, so Smugglers can gain Provinces.

19
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Design Challenge: Synergies with Captain!
« on: August 04, 2019, 12:43:46 pm »
EDIT: Just realized another problem. This works very differently with TFB (makes many of them significantly worse), which is common enough to make that an issue. Although then you could just not buy Shipworker's Union, so it's probably fine.

Maybe it's my turn to miss something, but I'm missing how it would make many TfB significantly worse. For example, play remodel, trash an estate, gain a gold. (Estate from hand still costs $2, gold from supply costs $6).

I misread the suggestion and didn't realize it only affected Supply cards. Cost reduction makes cards like Apprentice and Recruiter worse because they'd get less of whatever they give you.

20
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Design Challenge: Synergies with Captain!
« on: August 03, 2019, 02:46:38 pm »

yeah sure i'll bite. Here's one that works with captain, workshop, etc as kind of an inverse cost reducer. It's not always gonna be worthwhile (when there's no cards that select by price on the board) but workshopping grand markets sounds pretty chill.

edit: fixed to remove some ambiguity

What exactly does "select" mean here? What does "selecting" a card costing $2 more actually do?

so take a peek at Workshop - "Gain a card costing up to $4" - this is selecting a card from the supply that costs up to $4, then gaining it. This lets you select a card costing up to $6 with it.

Or consider Smugglers. If you have this project, your opponent bought a province last turn, you can smuggle a province.

I have a suggestion for a much simpler way to word this:

"When you play a card, you may first have all cards cost less (but not less than ) until you finishing playing the played card."

Same effect, but less confusing as it uses familiar concepts like cost reduction and "finishing playing" a card. Less wall-of-text-ish, too.

I don't think this would quite work (for the 2nd Captained card, at least). From the wiki for Royal Carriage: "With Duration cards, you call Royal Carriage after resolving the Duration card's on-play effects; you don't wait for the next turn." so you finish playing it before the start of your next turn.  :-\

How about (and this may also not work for the 2nd Captained Card - see below):

"During your Action phase, all cards in the Supply cost less (but not less than )."

I'm not sure of "the start of your next turn" occurs at the start of your Action phase or before your Action phase begins?  (And obviously, this wouldn't affect any treasure that have you select a card (e.g. Horn of Plenty) or Night cards).

I had a brain fart and forgot that Durations exist, somehow, even though we're talking about synergies with one. Oops. Your wording would work, though. "The start of your next turn" indeed occurs at the start of your Action phase (at least I'm 99% sure that's the case). Treasure and Night cards that care are rare enough that I don't think that edge case matters.

EDIT: Just realized another problem. This works very differently with TFB (makes many of them significantly worse), which is common enough to make that an issue. Although then you could just not buy Shipworker's Union, so it's probably fine.

21
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Design Challenge: Synergies with Captain!
« on: August 03, 2019, 11:48:12 am »


I tried to make a card that's still interesting without Captain on the board. Pirate Cove gains Villagers like Acting Troupe, but it's reusable so long as you play it first in the turn. You can use this card to gain Gold (thematic, right?), and it's a good strategy to do so once you've stockpiled enough villagers.

With Captain however things become crazy. You can gain a $6 card without trashing, which is fantastic because Captain itself costs $6. (Hint: you'll pile the Captains extremely fast). You can also use it to gain your first Captain, as hitting $6 isn't trivial. But it's not broken - the card doesn't draw, and barely provides any coin. You'll need to Captain other cards in the kingdom - like Smithy and Nomad Camp - to play an engine.

It needs to say exactly . See cards like Farmland, Upgrade, and Artificer; They have exact cost amounts in the cards they gain, but they don't just omit the "up to," they replace it with "exactly."

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Design Challenge: Synergies with Captain!
« on: August 03, 2019, 11:45:44 am »

yeah sure i'll bite. Here's one that works with captain, workshop, etc as kind of an inverse cost reducer. It's not always gonna be worthwhile (when there's no cards that select by price on the board) but workshopping grand markets sounds pretty chill.

edit: fixed to remove some ambiguity

What exactly does "select" mean here? What does "selecting" a card costing $2 more actually do?

so take a peek at Workshop - "Gain a card costing up to $4" - this is selecting a card from the supply that costs up to $4, then gaining it. This lets you select a card costing up to $6 with it.

Or consider Smugglers. If you have this project, your opponent bought a province last turn, you can smuggle a province.

I have a suggestion for a much simpler way to word this:

"When you play a card, you may first have all cards cost less (but not less than ) until you finishing playing the played card."

Same effect, but less confusing as it uses familiar concepts like cost reduction and "finishing playing" a card. Less wall-of-text-ish, too.

23
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Design Challenge: Synergies with Captain!
« on: August 02, 2019, 10:00:53 pm »


I tried to make a card that's still interesting without Captain on the board. Pirate Cove gains Villagers like Acting Troupe, but it's reusable so long as you play it first in the turn. You can use this card to gain Gold (thematic, right?), and it's a good strategy to do so once you've stockpiled enough villagers.

With Captain however things become crazy. You can gain a $6 card without trashing, which is fantastic because Captain itself costs $6. (Hint: you'll pile the Captains extremely fast). You can also use it to gain your first Captain, as hitting $6 isn't trivial. But it's not broken - the card doesn't draw, and barely provides any coin. You'll need to Captain other cards in the kingdom - like Smithy and Nomad Camp - to play an engine.

This seems way too easy to trigger to just cost . Also, is it costing up to or exactly ? Either way, you need to specify. (And it might be barely justifiable at if it's exactly.)

24
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 01, 2019, 01:02:14 am »
Developing Village
Types: Action
Cost: $2+
+1 Action. Reveal the top card of your deck. You may trash it and gain a differently named card with the same cost to your hand. If you do, +1 Action; if you don't +1 Card.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 overpaid, +1 Villager
This doesn't need to reveal the card. You can just look at it.
While it shapes itself somewhat like a splitter, I think Developing Village is really hiding an immensely frustrating Estate trasher, largely because it costs $2+. I'd recommend a cost of $3+ instead just to avoid the ability to turn Estates into Developing Villages. I think I disagree that it doesn't need the overpay. There will be a fair number of boards where triggering the +Actions in this will be difficult. The overpay benefit might even need to be larger for an increased cost.
Exchanging the card instead of trashing it would be fine, but don't forget to specify that you exchange for a card in the Supply, because exchange does not imply that (existing Exchanges being the Travellers and Changeling with exchanges for a specific card).

Yes, I can change "reveal" to "look at".

Can you explain what you mean by a "splitter"? I've not heard that term before.

And why is do you suggest turning off the ability to turn estates into DVs? I had thought of that as advantage, in particular on boards with no other $2s.

Splitter is a (rightfully) less commonly used term for Village variants.

25
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: July 31, 2019, 08:18:21 pm »
And playing Treasures is necessary to buy a card.

Uh, no it's not. There are plenty of Actions that give +. And some cards are free.

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