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Messages - J Reggie

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I played a Graverobber to gain itself from the trash.

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Mobile?
« on: April 17, 2018, 12:53:33 am »
The lobby is a bit messed up, but I'm able to play just fine. (I'm on Android, but there's probably not any difference, right? I'm using Chrome.)

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles
« on: April 12, 2018, 11:38:16 am »
Neat puzzles that seemed easy when you thought of them

Does anyone know why Sentry wasn't implemented for a while? It seems fairly simple.

I think it just hasn't been implemented yet, and there's little enough demand for it that it keeps getting pushed back in favor of things like bug fixes.

Feedback / Re: Friends don't show while there online
« on: March 31, 2018, 11:31:45 am »
This is the dominion strategy forum, and it's not associated with ShuffleiT. This is the forum you're looking for:

Dominion Articles / Re: How to be good at Dominion
« on: March 25, 2018, 10:23:13 am »
See, it was the opposite of this for me. When I first started playing, I lost almost every game. But I was having so much fun that I kept playing, and eventually I got better and better. But winning was never really the goal; I play games because they're fun. If all I cared about was winning and never having fun, I would endlessly play tic tac toe against someone who doesn't know that the game is solved. Or something along those lines. I would have never gotten good at dominion if all I cared about was winning, because I probably would have quit first.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Extending the game
« on: March 14, 2018, 03:50:38 pm »
Worst thing that can happen on a dominion playtest is "that was a waste of time".

Come on, f.ds, let's think of an edge case!

J plays a Crown.
J plays an Idol.
M gains a Curse.
J plays an Idol again.
M gains a Curse.

Dominion Articles / What's stopping AI from mastering Dominion?
« on: March 01, 2018, 06:06:27 pm »
After AlphaGo’s defeat of Lee Sedol in 2016, it has been considered inevitable that computers, specifically artificial neural networks, can beat the top humans at any board game given enough preparation. Now, obviously that preparation is the key; since stef doesn't have an in with the Google DeepMind team that I'm aware of, it'll be be a long time until we get a neural network that can beat Mic Qsenoch in a league match. But even if a supercomputer was thrown at the problem, there are a number of other challenges it would need to overcome. I'll outline a few that I can think of, but please add more.

Lack of training data
AlphaGo analyzed hundreds of thousands of professional games online before it reached a professional level. We have nowhere near that amount of data, not even taking into account the rating of the players. For one, there's really no such thing as a “professional dominion player”; there are a handful of highly-rated players who regularly place well in tournaments, plus stef himself (who doesn't participate in tournaments or rated games anymore). A neural network trained on data from all rated games would probably develop reasonably strong money-based strategies and beat lower-ranked players, but would lose to anyone who who frequented these forums. Furthermore, there's no good bot to play hundreds of thousands of games against in order to get a basis for good play. An AI that trains against Lord Rattington is going to end up marginally harder to beat than Lord Rattington, which isn't saying much.

2. Sheer number of starting game states
In games like chess, checkers, and go, there are a total of 2 possible starting game states for any given player: either you go first or you go second. In Dominion, that number is at least in the realm of quadrillions. An algorithm would need to analyze each game on the fly; it can't have a bank of games it's played with that same kingdom to fall back on. Even if a neural network could get to the point of basic kingdom analysis, small things like what the Bane is or what Obelisk is on can completely change a game. This type of intricacy is pretty common, but specific instances of it are rare enough that a neural network may not have a point of reference to determine whether, say, opening Young Witch is worth it in a given kingdom. It will also be bad at recognizing 2-card combos on its own. Something like Donate/Market Square May be obvious to a human, but how would a computer ever come up with that?

3. Randomness
Computers that play board games will often form a tree of possible moves when deciding what move to make next. The only variable they have to take into account is their opponent, and they can form a tree of moves for their opponent as easily as they can form one for themselves. However, it wouldn't be time-efficient for a computer to calculate each possible arrangement of its cards after a shuffle every time it plays or buys a card; it would need to develop some more abstract way of determining its choices. That's a level that AI as of yet tends to struggle with. This hypothetical dominion bot wouldn't be able to calculate its exact percentage chance of winning with each decision, so what would it go off of?

4. Number of small choices
For a while, Lord Rattington had a bug where if you played Vault until it had 0 cards in hand, it would freeze. This is an example of a bot not understanding a simple decision of whether or not to discard. Even after the bug was fixed, the bot continued to discard until it had 0 cards in hand. An AI would have to learn how to respond to every little prompt, and the difference between each one. It can't just choose not to discard to Militia, but it has to eventually choose not to discard to Vault. This is made harder by the fact that it's not necessarily train against an opponent who plays 5 Vaults per turn. It's going to have to somehow learn what the best response is to each little prompt, and it's going to have to do so quickly, as it may not get many other chances to go over that situation. This isn't how neural networks work; they need lots of reinforcement in order to be able to make good decisions.

5. Unique cards
An AI, if it got to this point, would likely be able to determine that Village and Worker's Village are pretty similar, and might group cards into categories much like humans do. But it could have more trouble with unique cards like Lurker or Villa that seem similar to other cards but play very differently. It could misjudge a card’s function based on a small number of games. I don't have a good idea of how this would play out; it's possible the AI could be better at this than I'd expect.

And that brings me to…

What advantages does an AI have?

All is not hopeless! I think there are a few things computers have going for them when it comes to Dominion, assuming they get over these many hurdles:
Deck tracking - a computer should have a perfect memory of its deck and discard pile at all times
Balancing deck contents - it would probably find a good balance for building an engine in the early game
Forced wins - the counting and math blunders that plague high-level humans wouldn't be an issue for a computer

So what do you think? Is it possible to create an AI that consistently beats the best humans? Is a neural network the best way to go? Will we even play Dominion anymore when the AIs take over the Earth? This is just the beginning.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Semi-Interesting Dominion Moments Thread
« on: February 23, 2018, 01:23:04 am »
Wouldn't you have run out of upgrades? I did something like that with Wild Hunt, Encampment, and Inheritance once.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Favorite Expansions in 2018
« on: February 22, 2018, 12:14:23 am »
Also that's not true about Princess. Read the FAQ for Enchantress.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Top 20 kingdom cards
« on: February 19, 2018, 12:51:02 pm »
Have we done a large favorite cards ranking recently? Not suggesting we do one, but I wonder what cards would gain the most ranks compared to their power ranking.

I had an opponent resign after I got three Witches in my first 5 or so turns. Kind of demoralizing I suppose, but not something you can't come back from. I don't remember the rest of the board, but I don't think there was trashing.

This is a work of art.

I feel like Master of the Mint should have some kind of clause to give you the debt at end of turn, like Capital. Otherwise the debt seems a little redundant with the coin tokens.

We should petition the Google DeepMind team to make the bot for Shuffleit!

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Favorite Expansions in 2018
« on: February 02, 2018, 04:47:19 pm »
Adventures: I love all the new mechanics it adds, and Miser is my favorite card of all time.

Empires: Really changes how we think about winning a game. Lots of really well-designed cards.

Nocturne: Night and Heirlooms are so cool, and once we got out of previews week where literally every game has them, Boons and Hexes have become really cool too. I would have liked to see another traveller in this set, though; I think it would have fit the theme.

Everything else: Besides the Big Box (Base, Prosperity, Alchemy), I got all the sets at the same time, so they kind of blur together. Lots of cool cards and mechanics in here, but nothing as interesting as the three most recent sets.

Noniager too OP.

And that's quite the cost on Cangler.

How did you notate gunpowder? Also, do you have a link to all the results?

J plays a Masquerade.
J draws a Nobles and a Port.
J passes a Province to R.


R plays a Masquerade.
R draws 2 cards.
R passes a Province to J.

I did it on purpose; not sure if my opponent knew that. 

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How good is Goat?
« on: December 31, 2017, 10:19:56 pm »

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How good is Goat?
« on: December 31, 2017, 09:24:07 am »
I've bought Goat exactly twice.

General Discussion / Re: STAR WARS
« on: December 30, 2017, 11:17:06 pm »
Just saw it. Thought it was one of the best star wars movies. Top 3 maybe. Though the bar isn't all that high for the series. Most of the faults I see are endemic to the whole series so I don't see why this is so much lower rated.

I'm really hoping for a novel about snoke though. That seems like a ton of wasted potential.

I feel like I read somewhere that Rian Johnson's trilogy would involve Snoke, but I could be remembering wrong.

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cursed Village
« on: December 28, 2017, 12:06:49 am »
Also does anybody else find it strange that Cursed Village and Leprechaun are worded "recieve a Hex" where as all the attacks say "receives the next Hex"?

Makes sense to me. If you worded the attacks "receives a Hex", you would run into the question of, do they receive different Hexes or what? But when you don't have that question because you're the only one getting the Hex, you don't need the extra words.

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