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Messages - flaquito

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Got it. Thanks for your responses and initial post! Was a fun game log to read.

Nice! Clever, and a really fast 3-pile. I always like finding creative ways to get +Actions. A couple questions:
  • What was the benefit of top-decking the Fool's Gold in the first turn? It seems like it would just slow your initial deck-cycling down a bit.
  • What on earth is going on with the log every time you play a Royal Blacksmith?? "A reveals a Merchant, 2 Coppers, a Scheme and a Fool's Gold."
  • Any reason you didn't grab a sole silver when you started Summoning Merchants? It's hard to see game state with the new logs... would the income from Silver + Merchant just not have been worthwhile compared to the Fool's Golds?

Does FLGS stand for Fucking Local Game Store?

When talking about CSI, it stands for Florida-Local Game Store.

My copy from CSI got to the post office too late for them to deliver it. So I went and picked it up in person.  ;D Looking forward to playing tonight.

Mine also shipped from CSI yesterday, with a FedEx delivery estimate of Tuesday.

Edit: Just noticed that it's Smartpost, so who knows when it will actually arrive.

FWIW, I called CSI this morning and they said all the information they have is that it will arrive by the end of July. I canceled my preorder and ordered from Amazon.

Oh, ouch. I actually just emailed them asking the same thing before I saw this. I'll post if the answer is anything different, but I might also have to cancel there, as much as I'd like to support a F(not-so-)LGS.

I ordered from CoolStuffInc. I can post back when they tell me it's shipping.
I did as well. I have always been pleased with how quickly CSI ships after the expansions are released.

Plus, there's just something special about getting emails and packages from "CSI."

I ordered from CoolStuffInc. I can post back when they tell me it's shipping.

Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Rulebook
« on: June 07, 2016, 09:19:48 am »
I'm not sure I get how D(et)onate works. "After your turn", that means after discarding everything from play, right? But is it before or after drawing 5 cards?

It's after you draw your 5 (or 3 for outpost) cards. Your entire deck will end up in your hand.

And how do you "shuffle your hand into your deck", when everything is already in your hand?

Place all cards from hand in draw pile. Shuffle draw pile. Draw 5 cards.

Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« on: May 16, 2016, 04:11:09 pm »
Inherited Crowns are Action-Treasure-Victory cards, so Ironworks will give you +1 Card, +1 Action, and +$1.

You have to Ironworks the Estate for that, though, not the Crown. Which is maybe what you meant -- I'm not sure. (I'm going based on the wording in the Wiki, which calls them "Inherited Estates")

Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« on: May 15, 2016, 01:49:59 am »
The big take-away for me was not to do previews next time. It's work; it's stressful; and then people say "oh what if you combine this with Possession and Black Market, this expansion is too complex." Man.

Donald, since so often negativity ends up being a vocal minority, I'll also chime in and say how much I enjoy your previews. The last ones easily got me to pre-order Adventures, and after this week I'm super stoked for Empires. With every new expansion, I'm amazed at the ideas you keep coming up with.

Also, I'm an extremely pedantic literalist (yeah, I know, a bit redundant), and absolutely love the intentionality that you put into the wording on the cards. Every word serves a purpose, and it's very rare that a thoughtful, logical reading of cards leaves any uncertainty about rules. Thanks again for everything you've put into Dominion!

(You guys want to see real ambiguity? Go read the Quarriors rulebook sometime....)

Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« on: May 14, 2016, 10:46:59 am »
  Play Villa, draw Council Room.

But Villa doesn't draw.

Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Bonus Preview #2: Crown
« on: May 13, 2016, 05:48:22 pm »
The game i fell in love with is gone...

Oh no, what happened to your cards? Did someone steal them?

I'll explain it, and you may think of it as a joke, making it funnier. Of all the previews, Landmarks, Enchantress and Events were the only ones i like. This is not the game i fell in love with anymore. Apparently we reached the point where rules confusion has been accepted as a necessity, and even though Donald more or less insists on it, i simply think that's not the case. I made a pseudo-Treasure-Action years ago, and still think it's the better solution to use the Reaction type over Treasure. And could he really not make Debt without introducing a third currency? Seriously? This is the man who made Treasury, Stash, and many other cards that found clever solutions to avoid unnecessary complexity. Now i feel he doesn't bother anymore, and Dominion approaches becoming one of those boardgames that simply hardcode stuff because it's to weird to get right on your own. I'm very disappointed. And i'm fine if you disagree with me, but if nothing unexpected happens, Empires will be the first Dominion set i skip.

Obviously we'll see what Donald says in the rules, but so far it's easiest for me to not think of debt as a new "currency." However, for the purposes of cards-that-care-about-card-cost, it needs a way to be handled. And the way that makes the most sense is debt=debt, and not debt=coins.

Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Previews #1: Debt
« on: May 13, 2016, 05:41:36 pm »
Loan feels very misnamed all of a sudden.

Moneylender too.

You're sending out your own moneylender. He provides a 1-copper payday loan to some desperate and gullible schmuck in your kingdom, and gives you back a 4-fold return.

Sorry, why before other players React?  This is correct, right? : I play a Witch as my first Action, and a lot of when-play stuff happens.  I played an Attack, so someone can reveal Moat, Horse Traders, etc.  I played a first-Action, so Enchantress kicks in.  I don't see how it matters whether those happen simultaneously or not, but if not there is maybe some resolution order.  I then go on to resolve the card and indeed it does +1 Card, +1 Action.

Edit: I guess it seems to me the timing should be when-Play, as you say.  Enchantress says 'the first time each other player plays an Action card', which seems equivalent to 'When another player plays an Action card, if that was the first Action card of their turn, then...'.  I'm not sure why it matters that the effect is to do something different than the normal resolving.

That does bring up an interesting (and maybe obvious? and maybe already discussed?) point, though. Since Enchantress effectively changes the text of the first-played action, but not the type, it's quite possible that the card played becomes a cantrip attack, and other players may still react to it however they wish, which can be quite advantageous to the Enchantress-ing player.

Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Teasers!
« on: May 13, 2016, 10:20:01 am »
Man, if Landmarks were Previews Day 4, what madness has Donald saved for today?

I'm not sure why people are expecting Donald to save the best for last with these previews. That hasn't really been the case in the past. For example, the last Dark Ages preview day was just the three Shelters.

I don't know, replacing the starting Estates was pretty exciting back then.

But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe you!

Get off my Estate! And turn down that Wandering Minstrel!

Just some rules clarification: If you play BoM as your first action, do you get choose whether Enchantress's on-play effect (changing to cantrip) or BoM's on-play effect resolves first?
As of my latest rulings on Band of Misfits, you would not pick a card, you would just get +1 Card +1 Action.

And what if you then call a Royal Carriage?

Well, it isn't any "card until it leaves play" because that instruction was voided, but it's not the first time an Action was played this turn, so the cantrip instruction is gone, so I'd assumed that if you RC an E'd BoM, you'd get to emulate a card.

Since RC says "Play the action again" as opposed to "Do the stuff you did again," and Enchantress says "The first time you play an action, do this other stuff instead" as opposed to "Pretend the card says this other stuff," then I'd concur with werothegreat.

Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« on: May 12, 2016, 11:47:22 pm »
With Landmarks it's much easier to explain that it's basically like an extra rule for that game.

It's like Nefarious has come to Dominion, and we have our own twists!

Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« on: May 12, 2016, 05:00:58 pm »
I am too lazy to do the math, but does the breakdown look reasonable if you assume that each split pile is still just one piece of art?  I suggest this because the art for each half of the split pile are really crops of the same piece of art, which should be the randomizer art.  It's easy to see on Gladiator/Fortune and not too tough to figure out for the other two pairs.

I'm still having a hard time seeing how the art on Settlers/Bustling Village will fit together. The earth-tones seem to be too different in their coloring. Plus, given the card orientations, the vertical combining of Gladiator/Fortune and Catapult/Rocks works really well. But with sky at the top of both Settlers and Bustling Village, that doesn't work. I'm sure when I actually see the randomizer it'll make complete sense, though.

Thanks. I searched for "Outpost", "Possession" etc. before asking. Just my luck the previous question didn't mention any specific cards. D'oh!

Isn't that always the way it works? :)

A question that's just occurred to me...

Is it grouped as "...the first time each other player [plays an Action card on their turn], they.." or "...the first time [each other player plays an Action card] on their turn, they.."?

In other words, if I play Outpost (or Mission/Possession/etc.) does the Enchantress affect both the turns I take before your next turn, or just the first of them?

Elestan answered this a few posts ago.

I'm guessing Enchantress affects the first Action opponents play on each of their turns?  So if they take extra turns, the first Action they play on each of them becomes a cantrip?


Yeah, Noble Brigand should probably have a dividing line. Although even if it did, Enchantress would still turn Noble Brigand into "+1 Card and +1 Action".
I guess just sticking "When you buy this, play it immediately" under a line was considered and rejected for some reason?

I obviously can't speak for any previous version or playtesting, but that wording would have actually changed the card behavior quite a bit. That changes actions played/in play for things like Peddler and Conspirator. It also changes being able to react to gaining it, such as top-decking or trashing it with Watchtower.

I'm guessing Enchantress affects the first Action opponents play on each of their turns?  So if they take extra turns, the first Action they play on each of them becomes a cantrip?


Similarly, it sounds like an Enchantress played on the same turn as an Outpost ends the attack immediately, although it does get you 5 cards for your Outpost turn.

Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Previews #3: VP Tokens
« on: May 12, 2016, 11:32:09 am »
I guess the point is that the trouble with the existing VP tokens has been the lack of 10's, since some Goons games can get crazy, especially with multiple players.

If our games get to that point, we generally use coin tokens as 10's.
I've used embargoes as 20 VP tokens! Needless to say that was a very high scoring game.
Oh yeah, that's right, I've done that too. I think one instance was on one of my first games ever with Prosperity, when I didn't realize the difference in the "while this is in play" wording of Goons, and tripled all of my VP tokens through KC. Whoops... That got just a bit absurd.

The problem is that the "instructions" of a card aren't defined anywhere. To me, it makes the most sense to consider it anything on the card that isn't conditiopned by some "when...".

Thinking of the on-play effect of Noble Brigand as being categorically distinct from that of every other card makes less sense to me...

It makes a lot of sense to me, since it's worded differently than every other card.

And why wouldn't the wording of Noble Brigand be technically correct? It does exactly what it says, it just does so with a different timing than other cards.

As far as I can see, the only reason Noble Brigand explicitly states "When you play this" is because it has the exact same effect for "When you buy this." It would have taken way too much space to put the same effect above the line to use with the implicit "When you play this" that every single card has, as well as doubling all the text under a line along with "When you buy this." There was no way to list the on-buy effect without explicitly stating "When you play this." I don't see that as being any different timing than other action cards. I see that as being a requirement of the English language.

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