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Messages - ObtusePunubiris

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1
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Black Market Deck Setup Idea
« on: May 15, 2019, 10:54:49 am »
I recently bought all of the promo cards, and it occurred to me that I didn't really want to play with Black Market because of all the setup that it would take. I came up with a solution, though. I could put a list of all the cards I wanted in my BM deck into a spreadsheet (for now it has all the cards in it, sorted by expansion) with corresponding numbers, which I could then print out and put with my two Dominion boxes (I have efficient foam-core card storage). I can then randomize via dice (1D4*100 + 1D10*10 + 1D10 or something) which three cards are revealed, rerolling if necessary, and then if I choose to buy one, I can take it straight out of the box. Very little setup required, except once to create the spreadsheet. Overall it will save time, though.

I thought I would share this idea so that other people can use it if they are similarly reluctant to play with Black Market because of the setup. Playing with this is slightly different than with an actual BM deck, because you can run into the same card twice before going through every other card, however it isn't that different. And if you want, you can have some way to mark which cards have been revealed and reroll the dice if you find them again.

Not having to get anything extra out until a purchase happens is certainly the way to go.  For a long while now, I've accomplished that with the Kingdom Shuffler (Android only) app.  When BM is in the kingdom, it will automatically create a BM deck of whatever size you have configured and also handle the in-game drawing and buying (or not) from the deck.  I know it has some configurations that govern the contents of the BM deck, but I've never played around with them to know if they're as flexible as what you're using.  Whatever the case, this feature, for all that it doesn't get used that often, is why I chose this app over Jack of all Dominion for my shuffler app.

2
Rebuild should give a 10 0% chance of being a Shelters game.  FTFY

Truth be told, I will play with Rebuild, but it is the only card I actually don't like and I don't like it quite a bit.

3
I like this idea, but not as much as I like things to be simple.  When this question came up for my group shortly after Empires was released, we decided to go with the simplest of solutions.  We asked ourselves how often we wanted to see those cards and set a flat percentage chance accordingly.  The number we settled on was 20% for both C/P and Shelters (determined separately, or course) and it's worked out nicely for us.
The benefit of how I did it is that when you have Colonies you're also going to see cards that boost economies. With Shelters, you'll see trash for benefits and live-with-junk cards. With Boulder Traps, you get non-thinning trashers and discard for benefit and discard pile manipulation.

That's an important distinction and is one we considered.  In the end we decided there were enough cards that did those things scattered throughout all of the sets that it wouldn't often be an issue for us.  Even when we do roll up a kingdom that, for example, has C/P, but not much economy, we just consider it another facet of that particular game that we have to build our strategies around.  Of course, that's not the experience everyone is looking for, so I certainly understand preferring to link those things the way you have.

4
I like this idea, but not as much as I like things to be simple.  When this question came up for my group shortly after Empires was released, we decided to go with the simplest of solutions.  We asked ourselves how often we wanted to see those cards and set a flat percentage chance accordingly.  The number we settled on was 20% for both C/P and Shelters (determined separately, or course) and it's worked out nicely for us.

5
I didn't ask you to scream at anyone or contemplate anything.  Those are your words and your definition of being pissed about something, not mine.

But hey, I misunderstood/mischaracterized something you said and now you've done the same to me.  Call it even?
You said I should be pissed, meaning I hadn't adequately demonstrated pissed-ness to you, meaning you wanted my post to contain words of pissed-ness. Which would then be directed at entities I was pissed at, who happen to be entities I work for/with.

No, that is not what I meant.  As I've explained, all I wanted in asking you to be pissed was to not make light of the issue, which is what it seemed to me that you were doing.  No ranting, to angry words, no public castigation of anyone necessary.  You said you weren't making light of it.  I said I believe you and I'm asking you to believe my explanation in return.  Either way though, thanks for the amazing game and farewell.

6
Then I come here and see the designer and primary "face" of the game seeming to say: I don't feel too bad about it, 'cause you can just throw some sleeves on them and it won't be so bad. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, Donald, if that's not how you meant it, but that's how it came across.
The lighter frames can't possibly suck as much for you as they suck for me. I mean, there's no remote chance of that. They super suck for me. Why do I waste time making expansions when other people will screw them up?

But your response to my response also sucks. I don't just get to have people unhappy at lighter frames; I get to have people saying I didn't scream in public at the people I have to work with enough for their tastes, I didn't contemplate suicide enough for them.

That's my response to your response to my response! And if this is what interacting with the community is, I'll again be done with it. It does me no good to scream at fans for screaming at me not screaming. But that's all I've got for you; you're that guy complaining about me trying to look on the bright side. I have no sympathy for that position.

I didn't ask you to scream at anyone or contemplate anything.  Those are your words and your definition of being pissed about something, not mine.

But hey, I misunderstood/mischaracterized something you said and now you've done the same to me.  Call it even?

7
Let me take a stab at clarifying something.  My main complaint wasn't really about the faded cards.  It was about the response to the issue.

I did send a note to RGG about the cards before I ever posted anything about it here.  The response was essentially: yeah, we know, but since it doesn't impact functionality, enjoy your defective cards.  We're not doing anything for you.

Then I come here and see the designer and primary "face" of the game seeming to say: I don't feel too bad about it, 'cause you can just throw some sleeves on them and it won't be so bad. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, Donald, if that's not how you meant it, but that's how it came across.

So yeah, I was irritated because the response I got seemed to marginalize the issue and attempt to make it less significant.  Now, judging by the other replies here, I'm in the minority regarding my feelings about how significant it is, so perhaps from a business standpoint, the response was perfect.  It just didn't sit well with me.

All that said, in the grand scheme, the issue, response, and my perception of it are all small things, so I won't belabor them any longer.

And for the record, I've played 10 or so games with the new cards since I got them and everyone, including me, enjoyed them immensely.  Faded cards aside, it's a great set.


8
I'm aware of the variations from set to set, but come on, put Cargo Ship next to Research and call that a slight variation. This is way beyond that.

And Donald, sorry man, I love your games and I appreciate what you bring to this forum, but your "I take solace..." comment rubs me the wrong way. To be clear, sleeves don't obscure jack, but that's not really the point. You shouldn't take solace in any part of this. You should be pissed (maybe you are, it just didn't seem that way). This is 2 of the last 4 expansions with significant printing issues. Once is an anomaly. Twice is a pattern.

And to hear that it may be years before fixed card are available. That's beyond disappointing, if accurate. I get that the cards are completely functional as is, but hell, why take the time to pick art work and design fancy border to begin with if function is all that matters.

9
That's really weird.  That's the URL of the product I ordered.  In my cart, it still shows a picture of Renaissance, but when I click on it, it goes to the base game.  It definitely was Renaissance a few days ago, no reviews, etc.  It would be real annoying to end up with the wrong thing here.

I can confirm that even though Amazon's page changed for a while, my copy of Renaissance did arrive today.

Just to close the loop on this, despite the oddness with the Amazon listing, I too received the correct game.

Unfortunately, there are printing issues.  The scroll borders on Cargo Ship, Ducat, Patron, Scepter, and Spices (but not Research, strangely) are very faded; like the printer was running low on ink or something.  I've reached out RGG already.  Here's hoping mine is just a one off and this isn't a widespread issue.

They are all like that. The layout sent to the printer was lighter for everything but Research.

That's just great.  I imagine that means I shouldn't expect replacements any time soon.

10
That's really weird.  That's the URL of the product I ordered.  In my cart, it still shows a picture of Renaissance, but when I click on it, it goes to the base game.  It definitely was Renaissance a few days ago, no reviews, etc.  It would be real annoying to end up with the wrong thing here.

I can confirm that even though Amazon's page changed for a while, my copy of Renaissance did arrive today.

Just to close the loop on this, despite the oddness with the Amazon listing, I too received the correct game.

Unfortunately, there are printing issues.  The scroll borders on Cargo Ship, Ducat, Patron, Scepter, and Spices (but not Research, strangely) are very faded; like the printer was running low on ink or something.  I've reached out RGG already.  Here's hoping mine is just a one off and this isn't a widespread issue.

11
That's really weird.  That's the URL of the product I ordered.  In my cart, it still shows a picture of Renaissance, but when I click on it, it goes to the base game.  It definitely was Renaissance a few days ago, no reviews, etc.  It would be real annoying to end up with the wrong thing here.

I can confirm that even though Amazon's page changed for a while, my copy of Renaissance did arrive today.

Excellent!  Renaissance for weekly game night is a go.  Assuming mine arrives on schedule.

12
The link from my Amazon order page once again takes me to a listing for Renaissance, so I'm hopeful that is indeed what they have sent me.

13
Ordered from Amazon US (sold and shipped by Amazon) on Tue.  Got confirmation of pickup by carrier today at 5:30 PM CST.  Should be here Fri. night.

How? I literally can't find it on Amazon. This url, which contains "Dominion-Renaissance" in it, goes to a page that sells the base set.
https://www.amazon.com/Rio-Grande-Games-Dominion-Renaissance/dp/B07GRF6L3N

That's odd, I get the same result now too.  Even when I click on my order, it goes to the Base Game.  It was Renaissance when I ordered it.  It had the right art and title on the box, had the right flavor text in the listing, everything.  That's worrisome.

Hey, anybody need another copy of the Base Game?

14
Ordered from Amazon US (sold and shipped by Amazon) on Tue.  Got confirmation of pickup by carrier today at 5:30 PM CST.  Should be here Fri. night.

15
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Your reviews of the previews
« on: October 23, 2018, 12:22:17 am »
The one minor disappointment I have, and several people have mentioned this, is that Projects aren't multi-stage.
Really? Base Dominion already has pretty complex multi-stage projects that change with every board; they're called a deck ;)
Sure, but what I want is a deck-building game so complex that even my multi-stage projects have multi-stage projects.
Have patience... Dominion: Legacy will be the multi-stage projects that contain multi-stage projects, of multi-stage projects!
Sounds cool.  Will I get to rip up cards though?

16
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: October 11, 2018, 05:33:59 pm »
People defend Alchemy, want more of it. You know.
Yeah, but those people are just crazy. ;)

Maybe the other thing that went with Heirlooms would have been great. Stuff happens instead of other stuff happening. It's okay for fun stuff to go into the outtakes due to having problems; I replace it with fun stuff with fewer problems. I mean there would be people defending every fun thing that didn't actually make it into the sets.
If I had your perspective, your knowledge of what other option were on the table, I might come to the same conclusion.  Alas. I only know what I know.


17
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: October 11, 2018, 12:35:25 pm »
IMO Adventures, Empires and the 2nd editions are excellent so your process is more or less working (Not personally fond of nocturne but it's  not "bad")
Thanks; we had a lot of fun playtesting Nocturne, but I would change it a lot at this point, which is not true of Adventures or Empires. I would probably split it into two sets, one with Night, Spirits, and Boons, and the other with Heirlooms and some other new mechanic. I wouldn't do Hexes (too slow). I would only do ~5 Fate cards.
For what it's worth, I'm glad it didn't go down that way.  The things that are commonly complained about (increased setup complexity, slow down of the game) are obviously real, but I (and those in my game group) have found their impact to be overstated.  Some of the reasons for that come down to personal preference or how I choose to organize and setup the game, so I'm not suggesting that those who feel otherwise are wrong.  I just want to share that there are those of us out here who think Nocturne is fine how it is.

18
I don't think you're taking these ideas far enough.  I would suggest:

Artifacts that flip your Journey token and when it's face up you get your choice of a Coffer, Villager, Woodcutter or Smith as well as a Traveler that can subsequently be exchanged for the next Boon, and when it's face down you get the next Hex, which may or may not give you a State and, if it doesn't, will give you a Ruin.

Man, I am totally inspired to make some fan cards now.

19
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Your reviews of the previews
« on: September 30, 2018, 12:19:44 am »
I guess that did sound like I was suggesting that if they use to be more complex, they must have been so in the specific manner I envisioned.
I wasn't saying that I had any idea what you thought they might be.
Gotcha.  Well, even so, what you said made me realize I was being unclear.  So thanks.

20
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Your reviews of the previews
« on: September 29, 2018, 09:05:41 pm »
The one minor disappointment I have, and several people have mentioned this, is that Projects aren't multi-stage.
As usual, people had to guess at what the mechanic would do from the name, but I had these cards and had to call them something. The fact that they were originally more complex is just a coincidence there.
I guess that did sound like I was suggesting that if they use to be more complex, they must have been so in the specific manner I envisioned.  Obviously, I have no way of knowing that.  And to be sure, any disappointment I have is the result of my own speculation, not because of any flaw with the final product.  I do think Projects will fun play with.

21
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Your reviews of the previews
« on: September 29, 2018, 06:41:59 pm »
The one minor disappointment I have, and several people have mentioned this, is that Projects aren't multi-stage.
Really? Base Dominion already has pretty complex multi-stage projects that change with every board; they're called a deck ;)
Sure, but what I want is a deck-building game so complex that even my multi-stage projects have multi-stage projects.

22
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Your reviews of the previews
« on: September 29, 2018, 11:49:11 am »
I didn't try out the preview cards online and can't really talk about them individually.  I can give impression of the set in general though.

While I didn't have an issue with the complexity of the last few expansions, I also don't mind the simplicity of this one.  To me, new Dominion cards are good Dominion cards.  Some of the people in my gaming group, however, are somewhat less enamored of the more complex cards/mechanics.  They still enjoy the game and all, but I'm sure they will be happy with this turn towards simplicity.  Which means they will want to play more often, and that makes me happy.

I also think it's impressive that Donald was able to find design space this simple, and yet still compelling, this far into the evolution of the game.  The increasing complexity of the last few did make me think that perhaps there wasn't much further the game could go without becoming unwieldy.  Renaissance gives me hope that such is not the case.

The one minor disappointment I have, and several people have mentioned this, is that Projects aren't multi-stage.  I envisioned having to buy them in 2-3 stages with either no or small benefit until they were complete.  I can imagine some of the complexities (and I'm sure there are some I haven't imagined) such a mechanic would present, both in design and game play, so I understand the decision to simplify.  I still think they would have been cool that way though.  I'll be especially interested to read the Secret History for Projects since Donald mentioned that they were more complex at one point during development.

Overall, I think the set looks great.  I like the theme, the cards look fun to play, they seem impactful, and I can hardly wait to get my hands on it.  Bravo!

23
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Teaser
« on: September 28, 2018, 06:32:54 pm »
Some bonus info we can extrapolate:
Of the 16 unseen card-shaped-things, only 2 are artifacts, the other 14 are projects.

I'm being pedantic, but you don't really need to "extrapolate" that. It's stated right in the Day 4 and Day 5 previews.

Also as long as we're being pedantic, Kingdom cards are card-shaped things too. ;)

Well, if we're going down the pedantic rabbit hole...  You're technically correct, but since "card-shaped-things" is Dominion lingo and has a specific, known meaning, I think my pedantic out-pedantics your pedantic.  Also, pedantic no longer has any meaning to me.

..."Card-shaped things" is Dominion lingo for the category that includes both cards and Events, Boons, Projects, etc., though. Isn't it?
I've always understood "card-shaped-things" to mean all the card shaped things that don't go in your deck, as opposed to "cards", which are the card shaped things that do go in your deck.

24
Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Teaser
« on: September 28, 2018, 06:02:05 pm »
Some bonus info we can extrapolate:
Of the 16 unseen card-shaped-things, only 2 are artifacts, the other 14 are projects.

I'm being pedantic, but you don't really need to "extrapolate" that. It's stated right in the Day 4 and Day 5 previews.

Also as long as we're being pedantic, Kingdom cards are card-shaped things too. ;)

Well, if we're going down the pedantic rabbit hole...  You're technically correct, but since "card-shaped-things" is Dominion lingo and has a specific, known meaning, I think my pedantic out-pedantics your pedantic.  Also, pedantic no longer has any meaning to me.

25
I think the relationship of coffer to coffers is much like that of fund and funds.

Fund (as a noun) is a place to put money; think mutual fund or trust fund.  "Funds" could refer to multiples of fund (e.g. all these rich kids have trust funds), but it can also mean financial resources in general (e.g. I have the funds to buy a new suit).  If you were adding 1 unit of money to your general financial resources, you wouldn't say +1 fund; it would be +1 funds (or perhaps +1 to funds).  Coffer/coffers is the same.

Whether you think coffers was a good choice of terminology or not, the usage here (as opposed to just "coffer") is correct for what's trying to be communicated.

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