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Dominion League / Re: Season 6 - Results
« on: March 16, 2015, 02:58:52 pm »
E2: Juice 2 - SXT - 4
www.twitch.tv/seprixinc
Playing some games with Juice shortly.
Very fun match and mistakes were made so would be looking for a rematch soon gg's
We can today if you want.
I'm on right now so whenever you're ready!
Looks like I'll be streaming shortly then.
www.twitch.tv/seprixinc
Playing some games with Juice shortly.
Very fun match and mistakes were made so would be looking for a rematch soon gg's
We can today if you want.
I approve of the decision not to go for Rebuild. Rebuild was massively overrated (less so perhaps now) and on a great engine board like this you can definitely play well whilst ignoring it.
Forager is a great opening, but I don't like the Wishing Well. The normal case for Wishing Well is that you want to see your other buy more often. Here you can just take a second Forager as you don't have to worry about collisions. Long term you want to be drawing with Menageries (excellent here with Inn) rather than Wishing Well, so you don't want any later on either. Although even Menagerie is not so important, as mostly you'll be playing cantrips.
Your goal is to draw your deck every turn, so in addition to the Markets and Treasuries you want at most one each of Silver and Gold, possibly supplemented by Fishing Villages and Nomad Camps with Menageries. Be careful not to let Spoils ruin Menagerie's draw; the easiest way would be to ignore it, as there are plenty of other good $5's.
PPE: I find Awaclus's Bandit Camp suggestion intriguing. They certainly ramp up faster than Treasuries, but a handful of Spoils is going to make Menageries sad in the late game. I think I'd have to see how this felt if I was playing it.
I don't think your opponent was playing Rebuild very well. With some improvements to your engine strategy, you could definitely beat someone who's playing Rebuild like he was, but I'm not sure if you can beat someone who plays the Rebuild strategy well.
In any case, for the engine I think you should:
- Open Forager/Forager
- Maybe buy one Silver, definitely not two
- Skip Treasury, get Bandit Camps and possibly one Gold instead (and possibly one Market for the +buy if you think you need it)
- Buy more Menageries
One huge thing is the opening... having a 5/2 is quite horrible here. So you already were in a decent position from the start. Also I agree with your opening buys.
Silver on turn 4 sounds like a mistake though. I don't think you want any money cards here. $3 should be Steward or Warehouse, $4 should be Conspirator. The turn 6 Tactician is a mistake as well; the engine is strong enough to draw your deck here anyway, Tactician won't do much for you except providing +1 buy... I don't think that's good enough.
It certainly helped that your opponent ended the game while behind, but your deck was in a better state anyway at this point.
Fishing Village, Forager, Menagerie, Wishing Well, Nomad Camp, Bandit Camp, Inn, Market, Rebuild, Treasury
www.twitch.tv/seprixinc
Playing some games with Juice shortly.
Stonemason, Scrying Pool, Steward, Warehouse, Conspirator, Silk Road, City, Laboratory, Tactician, Altar
"Thinning is Winning" is legitimate Dominion advice. The H comes from this scene. There are other parts of the episode where H is inserted into words that just have a W and no H.
On an unrelated note, HWinning is something my IRL gaming group says when someone currently has a points lead but has no chance of winning the game.
Sea Hag is one of my favorite cards to ignore. With any sort of decent trashing it's an easy call to ignore it, mostly because they're playing a terminal that does nothing every shuffle to give you a Curse and you're playing a "decent card" every shuffle to get rid of it. This is an oversimplification but it holds pretty well.
Here it's a tough call, Develop is effectively a terminal that does nothing when it trashes a Curse, but the Sea Hag player had a 4-card hand to work with and you only had a 3-card hand. Develop isn't very good with Shelters, despite the presence of Embargo. If you're going for an engine here (which is probably best regardless) then yellow = purple anyways, so that's really bad. Thinning is just such a priority and it's so hard to do I don't think you can ignore the lovely lady here.
I would open Sea Hag/Scheme on a 4/3 here. On a 5/2 I suppose I'd open with Mint/Embargo but I probably wouldn't be all THAT happy about it. The nice part is that you have the Necro so you don't mind picking up a Develop next and turning your other Shelters into Embargoes for economy, Also that Mint is a nice Develop target.
What would the game probably look like? Well hopefully you can get a decent enough action density at some point to justify going for Heralds, otherwise the game will just end on piles too quickly for building to be worth it.
I don't know when I'm streaming next, but if I remember I'll be happy to play this board on stream if you want.
I think you want to go for a Herald engine with Bridges as your payload, and for that, I'd open Remodel/Scheme to turn your Estates into Heralds, then buy more Heralds and a Mint as soon as you can, and then start getting Bridges, but I'm not sure if you want a Bridge before that for the economy. Also, I think the best move is to not go for Sea Hag at all, but if your opponent goes for it, then you probably want to do something about it.
Is making your own shuffle luck cheating?
Maybe you can explain why I'm wrong in thinking JoaT doesn't usually work in engines. I'd be happy to learn. And I'm not being sarcastic. I'm puzzling over this.
Adam wrote an article about JoaT in an engine somewhere if you want to see some ideas related to that. The big thing to me is that replacing Estates with Silvers is a big deck quality shift that can help engines as well as money focused decks. It just lets you buy good cards. There are other tricks involving the draw to X aspect that I think are not so (generally) important, but possibly very important on a given board (Lookout/Plaza/Goons all support that aspect here).
I think the way worse thing is just saying "when you have an engine, money is bad." Having too many treasures is bad, but so is having too many Villages, or having too many non drawing terminals, or too many whatever. It could be anything. Exactly how much of any of these things your deck wants depends wildly on what you want your deck to do and what resources are available in the kingdom for drawing cards. So it's way better to look at a specific game, like this one, and say "you needed fewer treasures here" than to say "engines don't want money". Engines love money as long as they have a good use for it, like a bunch of buys, or expensive things to get. And engines can usually make way better use of their treasures than "big money" decks can. I lost a game against Stef in the championship match because I neglected my economy for too long, my engine needed more money.
People nag on Silver and treasures a lot because players often don't see that adding a Silver can actually make your deck worse (relative to adding nothing). But the real lesson isn't about treasures! It's usually about stop cards (anything that doesn't help you draw more cards). So people buy too many Candlestick Makers or Squires just because they have at least $2 and think they need to buy something. Even adding in cantrips over nothing can be bad. The point is just that the values of cards change throughout the game, the point is not "Silver sucks in engines".
Embargo, Develop, Scheme, Bridge, Death Cart, Herald, Remodel, Sea Hag, Bandit Camp, Mint
Maybe you can explain why I'm wrong in thinking JoaT doesn't usually work in engines. I'd be happy to learn. And I'm not being sarcastic. I'm puzzling over this.
That makes a lot of sense, I thought that lookout wouldn't be that good to the fact I would draw a lot of cards due to Jack and getting rid of the cards via plaza by using them for coin tokens. But I do see the synergy and it makes it sense now that you explained it that way.
One problem with relying on Jack for draw is that the forced Silver gains make it harder and harder to draw the cards you want to see. So even if you have one nice turn using Jack for draw, you're unlikely to have many more unless you have some way to get rid of the Silvers.
Heh, funny that you found that one. It sure felt strange to buy Noble Brigand against someone who doesn't have anything to steal from, and just signaled (Fool's Gold) he doesn't ever intend to buy anything either.
On this board, I'm convinced the dominant strategy is a Fortress/Rabble thing with schemes, despite there being no +buy. Getting hit by 4+ rabbles every turn is just killing all money-based strategies. At that point I had enough faith in this theory that I was willing to ignore his opening buy and still assume he was also going for the rabble engine.
Because the game will be very long (in #turns, again because of the lack of +buy) a Noble Brigand will actually be quite powerful in the mirror. First you topdeck two green cards, then you donate a copper. In the game we actually played he didn't go for the Rabble engine, and I decided two green cards on top of his deck was more important then an additional copper. But that was the plan.
The fact that Noble Brigand also gives +1$ helps a little bit, but Chancellor would be a lot better for that.
How did you add the Kingdom with the pictures like that? I would like to do that when I show kingdoms as well.
http://gokosalvager.com/kingdomvisualize
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IyVwEoWw4w&t=2m20sMaybe the next expansion has a Rat Catcher in it
Like a Pied Piper
Are they making another expansion?
lmao Im heartbroken.
Maybe the next expansion has a Rat Catcher in it
Like a Pied Piper