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1

Rules Questions / Re: Reserve cards + Necromancer

« on: December 09, 2018, 11:30:48 am »

Play a face up, non-Duration Action card from the trash, leaving it there and turning it face down for the turn.

No that phrase only stops the card from being moved into play. What stops the card from moving itself is apparently that it has already Lost Track of itself due to being played from an unexpected location.

Necromancer stops the played card from being moved to "in play," and that's all it stops. However! A card that for example trashes itself from play is looking for itself in play, and won't move itself if it's not there.

As the quote you quote says, it's not because it's being played from an unexpected location; it's because it wasn't moved into the play area when that happened. Vassal e.g. plays cards from an unexpected location too, but since it plays them to the play area no losing-track occurs.

2

Rules Questions / Re: Sewers + On-Trashing Draw

« on: November 28, 2018, 02:32:26 pm »

Thinking about Sewers as "above the line" or "below the line" isn't a productive approach. Sewers doesn't change the abilities of other cards the way, e.g., Inheritance does. Just think of it as like Market Square—a special effect that is activated when you trash a card.

Since Rats' and Sewers' special effects are both activated "when you trash" something, they happen at the same time and you can pick the order. So yes, you may trash two Rats, draw two cards from Rats' special effect, and then trash two more cards with Sewers. Or you can do it in the other order if you prefer.

I'm not quite sure about the answer to your second question. Usually when multiple cards are trashed, they're trashed simultaneously. This would mean that, if you trash two cards normally, and then Sewers gives you the right to trash two more cards, you have to select and trash both cards before activating the on-trash effects of either (meaning you can't trash 1 Rats with Sewers, draw a card, and then trash a second card with Sewers). But the text of Sewers doesn't say "trash up to n cards"; it says "trash a card" and it's an effect that can be activated multiple times. So maybe it's like Monastery, whose phrasing is similar, which does trash one card at a time, activating on-trash effects in between.

3

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Dominon analogies

« on: November 26, 2018, 08:01:06 pm »

Apprentice : Research :: Laboratory : Den of Sin

4

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How thematic are card names?

« on: November 24, 2018, 07:19:33 pm »

May I ask why Exploration only got the lowest rating? I immediately thought of the interaction with Mission and maybe you don't count in-game associations but if so it make sense that something that rewards you for.. exploring.. the possibilities of the kingdom if you can't buy cards have that kind of name. I think it isworthy of a **-rating at least, more than that is a bit of a stretch for sure, but I still like the name of the card pretty much theme-wise.

I do count in-game associations, and that counted against Exploration for me. The card whose name is most closely related to Exploration is Explorer, a Silver gainer, which has nothing to do with the effect of Exploration. Meanwhile, the existing effect that's most similar to Exploration, in my opinion, is Baths, which is highly thematic—take the day off, don't do anything, just sit around in the hot tub, you'll feel better. Thematically, Exploration is the opposite of Baths—heading out into the perilous unknown, versus sitting safe and sound in a comforting bath—so it seems odd to me that it should also be a "get tokens for not doing anything" effect.

I dunno, I guess Hermit is another potential comparison point—he goes mad if he doesn't buy anything, i.e., if he doesn't, like, engage in his daily routine and interact with other people? And so Exploration is, like, deliberately departing from your daily routine, and getting some resources out of it? I dunno, maybe it could be a *½, but it just doesn't really hang together for me.

True, but to be fair, isn't it Explorer that is a bit off as a Treasure gainer? It's mainly trading or war stuff that gets you those things via gaining. The explorer crew could of course be on their way to do a little bit of both, but yeah, you do have a point - it would be neat if it had a connotation with Baths somehow. Hm, what combines with both Baths and Mission? Halt as in resting while on a journey (not sure for a better term in English but sure there is one, simply "break" is too tame) maybe?

Explorer got a low rating from me too, but once an older card name is established I take it into account in evaluating later cards with related names. (That's why Woodcutter gets * but the Forest's Gift gets **—the latter gets a bonus for making a consistent theme with the former.)

5

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How thematic are card names?

« on: November 24, 2018, 05:14:42 pm »

May I ask why Exploration only got the lowest rating? I immediately thought of the interaction with Mission and maybe you don't count in-game associations but if so it make sense that something that rewards you for.. exploring.. the possibilities of the kingdom if you can't buy cards have that kind of name. I think it isworthy of a **-rating at least, more than that is a bit of a stretch for sure, but I still like the name of the card pretty much theme-wise.

I do count in-game associations, and that counted against Exploration for me. The card whose name is most closely related to Exploration is Explorer, a Silver gainer, which has nothing to do with the effect of Exploration. Meanwhile, the existing effect that's most similar to Exploration, in my opinion, is Baths, which is highly thematic—take the day off, don't do anything, just sit around in the hot tub, you'll feel better. Thematically, Exploration is the opposite of Baths—heading out into the perilous unknown, versus sitting safe and sound in a comforting bath—so it seems odd to me that it should also be a "get tokens for not doing anything" effect.

I dunno, I guess Hermit is another potential comparison point—he goes mad if he doesn't buy anything, i.e., if he doesn't, like, engage in his daily routine and interact with other people? And so Exploration is, like, deliberately departing from your daily routine, and getting some resources out of it? I dunno, maybe it could be a *½, but it just doesn't really hang together for me.

6

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Words in card names

« on: November 24, 2018, 01:51:43 am »

(I thought about counting duke as the root of ducat and miser as the root of misery and miserable; but although that's certainly etymologically true, I don't really think it's synchronically true.)

7

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Words in card names

« on: November 24, 2018, 12:39:09 am »

Time to update this! And correct some errors from last time. Any new or uncaught errors are my own fault.

13:
Village       (or 14: Villa, if you consider village to be decomposable into villa + -age)

12:
Gift

8:
Castle

6:
Market
Merchant
Trade
Treasure

5:
Dame
Sir
Work

4:
City
Gold
Haunt
House
Hunt
Man
Ship

3:
Art          (counting art as a constituent of artificer and artisan)
Bandit
Camp
Court
Curse
Duke       (assuming duchy and duchess are decomposable into duke + -y, -ess)
Fair
Farm
Ghost
Ground
Guard
Land       (counting land as a constituent of island)
Lose
Mine
Misery      (counting misery as a constituent of miserable)
Mountain
Road
Room
Royal
Ruin
Sea
Secret
Smith
Witch
Wood
Zombie

2:
Apprentice
Black
Border
Bridge
Capital
Caravan
Coin
Copper
Count    (not really)
Cut
Delude
Den
Earth
Envy
Estate
Explore
Field
Flag
Fool
Fort        (assuming fort is a constituent of fortress)
Fortune
Grand
Guild
Hag
Hall
Hero
Horn
Iron
Keep
King
Library
Make
Mason
Necro
Noble
Party
Pass
Post
Prince
Raid
Rat
Scout
Shop
Silk
Spice
Spy
Stone
Swamp
Tax
Tell
Tower
Town
Triumph
Wall
War
Watch
Way
Wind
Wish
Wolf
Yard

Function words:
15: the
7: of
3: out
2: over

8

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How thematic are card names?

« on: November 23, 2018, 11:11:33 pm »

*:
Pageant
Exploration
Piazza

*½:
Research
Silk Merchant
Citadel

**:
Ducat
Hideout
Patron
Scholar
Spices
Villain
Flag
Fleet
Road Network

**½:
Lackeys
Inventor
Priest
Key
Silos
Academy

***:
Border Guard
Acting Troupe
Cargo Ship
Experiment
Improve
Mountain Village
Recruiter
Scepter
Sculptor
Seer
Treasurer
Cathedral
Sewers
Star Chart
Sinister Plot
Guildhall
Crop Rotation
Canal

***½:
Old Witch
Swashbuckler
Horn
City Gate
Fair
Capitalism
Barracks
Innovation

****:
Flag Bearer
Lantern
Treasure Chest

9

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: November 17, 2018, 01:15:49 am »

So all sources I’ve checked seem like to agree “patrol” is from Old French patte ‘paw’; and then Wiktionary says it’s connected to *pent-; Etymonline says maybe *ped- via Celtic; OED just throws up its hands and says maybe it’s okay onomatopoeic—I think we may just have to accept the etymology of this word is unsettled.

10

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card

« on: November 08, 2018, 03:55:04 pm »

capitalism is a village

11

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?

« on: November 08, 2018, 01:34:09 am »

(I guess there's always this: https://www.amazon.com/Iniquitous-Dominion-Renaissance-Justin-Conley/dp/1980227411/ref=sr_1_26?ie=UTF8)

12

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?

« on: November 08, 2018, 01:32:10 am »

Ordered from Amazon US (sold and shipped by Amazon) on Tue.  Got confirmation of pickup by carrier today at 5:30 PM CST.  Should be here Fri. night.

How? I literally can't find it on Amazon. This url, which contains "Dominion-Renaissance" in it, goes to a page that sells the base set.
https://www.amazon.com/Rio-Grande-Games-Dominion-Renaissance/dp/B07GRF6L3N

13

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Pssst.... (Eager anticipation) When's it shipping?

« on: November 05, 2018, 01:17:09 pm »

- I wonder why Old Witch went with the Curse trashing instead of a Mountebank-like reaction. Result is mostly the same other than Curses running out more quickly.

Because she's old! She's tired, she runs out of energy more quickly and can't just keep up cursing all day anymore and never-you-mind like some of you whippersnappers. At least she's not afraid of peasants, like some young witches she could name.

14

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance rulebook is up

« on: November 05, 2018, 01:11:50 pm »

Just for seeking clarity, it looks like Patron doesn't require the word "reveal" with those 6 letters only, but rather it must use the reveal game mechanic. Is this true? Meaning cards that cause revealing to happen with other parts of speech like "reveals" (e.g. Scrying Pool) or "revealing" (e.g. Shepherd), etc. still work?
This would mean if I reveal for Villan because I can't discard due to Villan's condition (say with cost reduction so that Patron costs less than $2), I get +1 Coffers for each Patron in my hand, despite the wording being "(or reveals they can't)".

If it is just r-e-v-e-a-l that counts, then this is going to be a nightmare for translated versions.

I think we can take "word" as meaning 'lexical item' rather than 'word form'.

Good thing "revelation" doesn't appear on a card though, then we'd be in for a debate.

15

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Fun or interesting combos with Capitalism

« on: November 05, 2018, 12:32:29 pm »

They become Treasures (if the inherited card becomes one). The effect of Inheritance is supposed to give them text in my understanding. And IIRC Donald at least agreed on the outcome. One other argument is that the set aside card becomes a Treasure, so the Estates copy that independly of them being directly affected by Capitalism.

Well if this is so, then we can have a quintuple-type card by Inheriting Dame Sylvia in Capitalism!

EDIT: Werewolf Inherited will be a sixtuple type!

Capitalism does nothing to Werewolf.

16

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Your reviews of the previews

« on: October 23, 2018, 12:52:53 am »

Technically, you can always rip up your cards.

Sure, but then you're playing a variant.

17

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #3: Villain, Ducat, Silk Merchant

« on: October 21, 2018, 12:53:12 am »

Some plausible future card names that would be doublets of existing cards: Peon, Money, State, Esquire, Eremite, Fief, Fee

Less likely ones: Bench, Fabric, Place, Guy, Wit, Fjord

Ah, how did I not think of Piazza?  Now we’ve got two exact doublets!

18

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Complexity of Dominion

« on: October 04, 2018, 01:32:24 pm »

To be fair, even the Laws of Duplicate Bridge are 166 pages long.

It's because, if you have cost reduction, you can gain a free copy of a card whose baseline cost is more than $6.

19

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Start your turn with three empty piles

« on: October 03, 2018, 04:27:39 pm »

Man, I was just gonna say "play a 5-player game".

20

Rules Questions / Re: What do Sewers and Tomb do when you trash multiple cards?

« on: October 02, 2018, 09:54:35 pm »

while gaining is different: you gain each card separately.

I've never seen that stated anywhere, actually.

(Specimen question: when you play Treasure Trove with Watchtower in hand, can you choose to top-deck both the Copper and Gold in either order?)

Answer to the Treasure Trove question: no you can't; you gain the Gold first (and can top-deck it) and then the Copper (and can top-deck it).

21

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer

« on: October 02, 2018, 09:52:23 pm »

Hmm, Flag Bearer is a bit of a player-2 advantage card, isn't it? Assuming multiple do-nothing terminal silvers aren't something you really want in your deck.

22

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer

« on: October 01, 2018, 04:35:35 pm »

You stab him in the heart.

Is that what trashing means? I never realised. I feel so bad. I'm not sure I can play this game any more.

You thought Knights were just tickling everybody?  And Graverobber, what does he do?  Death Cart?  If you have alternative narratives, they might be entertaining...

Perhaps Knights just persuade people to commit themselves to life in the church.

23

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: October 01, 2018, 01:24:37 am »

Okay, so we've got Salvager, Apprentice, and Recruiter; now it's time for...

Shoppers
Action — $4
+$2
Trash a card from your hand. +1 Buy per coin in its cost.

This would be more likely to be viable if it gave you a +Buy Token.  Like a Marketer, or whatever you wanted to call them.

That would certainly make it a better analogue to Recruiter.

Like maybe if there aren't good alternatives, you take this as-is to deal with Estates and occasionally Copper if you don't need the $1.  But it doesn't look sustainable or appealing as a terminal Silver otherwise.

I did post it in RBCI....

24

Rules Questions / Re: What does Enchantress and Royal Carriage do?

« on: September 30, 2018, 11:06:15 pm »

What you're saying is fine for English in general. The problem is that in this context "when" already means "after", so as far as I can see it's not relevant.

I don't follow.

25

Rules Questions / Re: What does Enchantress and Royal Carriage do?

« on: September 30, 2018, 08:56:59 pm »

(And, indeed, one could even make a case that "after you finish gaining" would mean after all when-gain instructions have been carried out, i.e., not the same as "when you gain".)

Uhm. Since "when you gain" is the same as "after you gain", I guess you're saying that the word "finish" makes a difference? So when you have gained a card, it's after you gained it, but you're still not finished gaining it? You're at a point when it's after you did something but you're still not finished doing it. I think you'll agree that it doesn't make much sense.

Specifically, I mean that this is an issue of aspect. English has different grammatical ways of indicating how the meaning of verb interacts with the flow of time. Using the simple present, as in "when you play a card", typically portrays the verb as having a punctual aspect. So in "when you play a card", 'playing' is something that is construed as taking place at a specific point in time (here, the point at which the card enters the play area), not something extended over a period of time.

Putting a verb in the gerund form with finish, however, implies that it has an imperfective aspect—i.e., that it refers to something that takes place over an extended period of time, with a beginning, duration, and end. In that case, the period of time over which the action of 'playing a card' takes place begins when you start moving it toward the play area, and ends after you finish executing the relevant abilities, at which time you're done playing the card and can play another card, or whatever.

So yes, I do think that the word finish makes a difference, because it forces an imperfective aspectual interpretation on the verb it governs, whereas the simple present encourages a punctual interpretation of it.