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1

Rules Questions / Re: Sailor/Blockade

« on: August 01, 2022, 04:07:29 am »

In the Blockade scenario I described, you do set a card aside with it—you set aside a Caravan (but then after it was set aside it got moved to the play area). The stop-moving rule prevents that Caravan from moving into your hand on the next turn. In the BoM/Conjurer scenario, the stop-moving rule is also what prevents the Conjurer from moving to your hand on your next turn (from the supply). In both cases, there is a specific card that they're supposed to move at the beginning of the next turn, but will be predictably blocked from moving by the stop-moving rule.

2

Rules Questions / Re: Sailor/Blockade

« on: August 01, 2022, 12:44:30 am »

Hmm, okay, the wiki also says that if you Band of Misfits / Conjurer, the Band of Misfits stays in play till the next turn. How is that different from the Blockade scenario in my first question? In both situations, a Duration card is supposed to put something in your hand in the next turn, but you already know before Clean-up that the stop-moving rule is going to prevent that from happening. In the case of Blockade, that makes you discard the Blockade during Clean-up (you don't wait for it to try and fail to put the Caravan in your hand), but in the case of Band of Misfits / Conjurer, knowing that you're not going to be doing anything next turn because the targeted card isn't available apparently isn't enough to overrule the card staying play, and you do wait for it to try and fail to put the Conjurer in your hand. Why is that?

I suppose the answer must be because the rule is, Band of Misfits stays in play as long as the Duration card it plays would stay in play if it were in play; and if the Conjurer were in play then it would be going to do something on the next turn because it wouldn't lose track of itself in that situation... but that seems like one too many counterfactuals to really be how the cards are supposed to work, doesn't it?

3

Rules Questions / Re: Donating your Entire Hand

« on: July 30, 2022, 09:09:41 pm »

Yes, you can trash everything with Donate. As far as I know, there's no way out of it; you just have to not buy Donate and leave yourself with debt you can't pay off.

4

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: July 26, 2022, 11:28:05 am »

But by the time the when-trash effect takes place, the card is in the (public) trash, no?

Yes, we discussed that already in the posts you're quoting. You're moving a card being trashed to a public place, but that is also the case for a card being discarded.

GendoIkari is right, not all discards happen publicly: e.g. discarding your hand to Minion, where other players only see the top card you discarded. So the other hand cards go from a private place (hand) to a completely hidden place (discard pile), without being revealed before discarding.
Same with Cartographer from this expansion when you discard several cards - though in this case, since you have carefully chosen which cards to discard, you'll rarely miss a discard reaction anyway.

I guess you're agreeing that "revealing from a private zone" is not a valid argument.

No? The discard pile (other than the top card) is a private zone. If you discard a few cards, no one will ever know what the third one from the top is unless you reveal it. If you reveal that the third one is a Tunnel, you're revealing it from a private zone. Similarly, if you have a bunch of cards in your hand, no one will know that the third one is a Moat unless you reveal it. I'm not sure what you're objecting to in that analysis.

Ok, so now we're back to revealing to a private zone. As I said: "Not really, since all the when-discard cards have rules saying that you have to reveal them."

The reason you have to reveal them is because the discard pile is a private zone. Catacombs doesn't say "when you trash this, reveal it and gain a cheaper card"; you don't have to reveal it because the trash is already visible. Tunnel doesn't say "when you discard this, you may gain a Gold"; you have to reveal it, for the same reason Trader doesn't say "while this is in your hand, when you gain a card, you may exchange the gained card for a Silver."

5

Rules Questions / Re: Sailor/Blockade

« on: July 26, 2022, 03:59:33 am »

Ah, I see this is already answered on the wiki. Good work, everyone!

6

Rules Questions / Sailor/Blockade

« on: July 26, 2022, 03:54:39 am »

Okay so I play Sailor, and then I play Blockade, gaining Caravan. Caravan is gained directly to set-aside-cards-land (no visiting!), which means Sailor can put Caravan into play immediately. Since the Caravan isn't set aside anymore, Blockade won't make anyone gain Curses. Fine and dandy.

My question is: does Blockade stay in play anyway? Does it still have to try (and fail) to put Caravan in my hand at the start of the next turn? Or does it already "know" that the Caravan is gone and that it won't do anything next turn?

(This is conceptually different from a Gear with nothing set aside, since in this case a Blockade has a specific set-aside card that it's trying to put in your hand; it just can't find it.)

(I suspect the answer is that Blockade is discarded this turn, but I'm not totally certain!)

7

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion Log Statistics

« on: July 20, 2022, 07:47:16 pm »

Oh gosh, I had completely forgotten this even existed! By all means, please do create a wiki page for it.

8

Rules Questions / Re: Urchin "while in play"?

« on: July 18, 2022, 10:53:06 am »

Does it even need "this turn"? "When you play another Attack card, you may trash this from play" would seem to have it covered.

Yes, it does. “This turn” tells you how long the ongoing trigger is in effect for.

In what circumstance would the presence of absence of "this turn" make a difference, though? (I agree that the version without "this turn" would probably want a dividing line, but I'm not asking about whether the dividing line would make a difference just the "this turn".)

Not having "this turn" would be super awkward, even if the outcome would be the same. You'd have to do this:

1. Play Urchin.
2. Discard Urchin like normal in clean-up.
3. On a later turn, play an attack.
4. Urchin triggers. Follow the instruction "trash this to gain a Mercenary".
4a. Fail to trash Urchin due to the stop-moving rule.

Every time throughout the entire game that you play an attack card, repeat steps 4 and 4a.

4a would be "fail to trash Urchin because it's not in play"; the stop-moving rule is never invoked. (Recall my wording is "you may trash this from play".)

Just like how it's already the case that every time throughout the game that you play an Attack card, every other player's Diplomat triggers, the follow the instruction "you may reveal this from your hand", and then fail to reveal it when it's not in their hand.

9

Rules Questions / Re: Urchin "while in play"?

« on: July 17, 2022, 09:23:47 pm »

Does it even need "this turn"? "When you play another Attack card, you may trash this from play" would seem to have it covered.

Yes, it does. “This turn” tells you how long the ongoing trigger is in effect for.

In what circumstance would the presence of absence of "this turn" make a difference, though? (I agree that the version without "this turn" would probably want a dividing line, but I'm not asking about whether the dividing line would make a difference just the "this turn".)

10

Rules Questions / Re: Urchin "while in play"?

« on: July 17, 2022, 04:25:50 pm »

Does it even need "this turn"? "When you play another Attack card, you may trash this from play" would seem to have it covered.

11

Rules Questions / Re: Wiki - Storyteller

« on: July 14, 2022, 10:09:05 am »

Right.

12

Rules Questions / Re: Wiki - Storyteller

« on: July 14, 2022, 09:51:53 am »

The current order of operations for Storyteller is:
0. You get +1 Action
1. You play Treasures
2. You get +1 Card
3. You spend your money
4. You get additional +Cards

That FAQ note is saying you can spend coffers between steps 2 and 3. It's poorly worded, because you don't get +1 card from playing the Treasures.

13

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How thematic are card names?

« on: July 05, 2022, 07:08:37 pm »

*˝:
Astrolabe
Sailor
Trail

**:
Sea Chart
Clerk
Collection
War Chest
Weaver
Souk
Wheelwright

**˝:
Monkey
Anvil
Cauldron

***:
Blockade
Tide Pools
Pirate
Tiara
Charlatan
Crystal Ball
Magnate
Guard Dog
Witch's Hut

***˝:
Corsair
Sea Witch
Berserker

14

Rules Questions / Re: Weaver

« on: July 03, 2022, 08:56:26 am »

The Stop Moving Rule says: “If a card isn't where the effect would expect it to be, or has moved away from there and then back, it can't move the card.” It does not say “can’t play the card”. So I think the Weavers still can be “played” meaning execute the discard function.

There's a recent rule modification from Donald X. io the effect that if you can't move a card into play, you can't play it (with a carve-out exception for Throne/Horse-type situations, because everybody loves Throning their Horses).

15

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Words in card names

« on: June 30, 2022, 05:46:56 pm »

If I'd known there was a Hinterlands update coming, I would have waited! Guard, dog, nomad, and witch each move up a slot.

24:
way

15:
village (16 if you count "villa")

12:
gift

8:
castle

7:
hunt
market
merchant
treasure

6:
city
guild
man
trade
witch
work

5:
dame
keep
sea
sir
town

4:
black
camp
fair
gold
haunt
house
mountain
royal
sheep
ship
smith
war
wood

3:
art (if you count "artificer" and "artisan")
bandit
capital
court
curse
duke (if you count "duchy" and "duchess")
farm
fort (if you count "fortress")
ghost
goat
ground
guard
herd
horse
lose
mason
master
mine
misery (4 if you count "miser")
nomad
old (if you count "elder")
port
rat
road
room
ruin
secret
shop
zombie

2:
apprentice
astro
ball (not really, they're two different words)
bank
band
battle
border
bridge
camel
caravan
cave
chart
chest
coin
copper
count (also two different words)
cult
cut
delude
den
distant
dog
dwell
earth
envy
estate
explore
field
fish
flag
folk
fool
forest
fortune
gate
grand
guide
hag
hall
haven
herb
hero
high
horn
inn
invent
invest
iron
island
king
land
league
library
lodge
lord
make
map
mill
monkey
necro
noble
order
party
pass
pirate
place
plan
pool
post
prince
raid
scout
seal (not really; notwithstanding the pun, they're different words)
silk
sorcery
spice
spy
stone
swamp
tax
tell
tower
train
triumph
wall
watch
wind
wish
wolf
yard

function words
36: the
35: of
3: out
2: over

16

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: June 30, 2022, 01:40:22 am »

Is Berserker's "if you have an action in play" condition primarily there to stop it from screwing people over in the first 1-2 turns?

Yes.

My fiancé just played Necropolis using Way of the Owl and pulled it off anyway. 😁

17

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: June 29, 2022, 06:52:49 pm »

I don't know how I feel about the fact that playing a card from the Trash automatically means that the card is now part of your deck. We know from many other Command card examples that playing a card, leaving it there, does not cause the card to become part of your deck. It seems somewhat counterintuitive that "leaving it there" now means not only that the card doesn't move, but it also has an extra meaning that the card doesn't become part of your deck. I guess there's a new rule that any card that ends up in your play area automatically becomes part of your deck?

That's not an "extra meaning" for "leaving it there"; that's the entire meaning of "leaving it there"—you leave it where it is, instead of putting it in your play area. Trail doesn't say "leaving it there" (i.e., in the Trash), and the text of Trail specifies that the card may be in the Trash, so Trail self-playing from the trash moves it into the play area for the same reason that Golem playing a card moves it into the play area from set-aside-cards land. The stop-moving rule doesn't apply the way it would for say, Throne/Horse because Throne doesn't know to look for the Horse in the supply; but Trail does know to look for itself in the trash.

18

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3

« on: June 29, 2022, 02:13:22 pm »

(@jomini, I think you're misusing the word "zugzwang". Zugzwang properly is a situation where all options available to you leave you in a worse position than doing nothing; but in Dominion doing nothing is almost always an available option. You're talking about a situation where ending the game leaves you in a worse position than prolonging it, but that's not zugzwang; it's just stalemate.)

19

Dominion General Discussion / Re: 2022 Additional Errata

« on: June 28, 2022, 04:51:37 pm »

Play card X, buy Bonfire, trash card X from play, buy Gamble, play Graverobber, regain card X from trash, buy Gamble, replay card X... I haven't thought it through but I bet this can probably turn into an infinite loop.

20

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: June 19, 2022, 07:29:21 am »

Oops. Meant Clerk. Don't know why I was thinking "Cleric" for that card's name

Well, they are etymologically the same word.

21

Rules Questions / Re: Not enough Banes

« on: June 10, 2022, 12:17:04 am »

If you roll up to game night with just Cornucopia and Alchemy, the probability of this happening is about 1 in 200.

22

Rules Questions / Re: Not enough Banes

« on: June 06, 2022, 10:56:38 am »

Here in the Rules Questions subforum, we do not concern ourselves with whether the scenarios we discuss will ever actually arise!

23

Rules Questions / Re: Not enough Banes

« on: June 06, 2022, 01:38:27 am »

Why was this not asked back when Cornucopia first came out?

Cornucopia first came out before the Base Cards product, and so in order to play a game with Young Witch you would have to have at least Cornucopia plus Dominion or Intrigue, which would give you a total of 10 or more $2–$3 cards, so if you had a Kingdom of Young Witch plus nine cards there would always be at least one more $2–$3 card to add.

Also, I didn't think of it till today.

24

Rules Questions / Not enough Banes

« on: June 05, 2022, 02:20:11 pm »

If someone playing IRL only owns, for example, Guilds and Cornucopia plus the Base Cards product, they only have access to seven Kingdom cards costing $2 or $3. If they deal out a random kingdom containing those seven cards plus Young Witch, there isn't an additional card to add to be the Bane. What should they do in that case? Add an eleventh card, and select one of the $2–$3 cards they do have to be the Bane, I assume?

25

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Mechanics week 39: Snowy Mac-snow

« on: June 02, 2022, 08:18:23 am »

Santa's Workshop
$4 Action

Gain a non-Victory card.
For each $1 it costs more than $4, gain a Snow.
For each $1 it costs less than $4, gain a Horse.

Gaining some Overlords with this...