I see what you mean by Trader, but I still don't see what you mean by Citadel playing a card. You said: "consider a Smithy set aside with Summon. Citadel is able to put it into play." Surely the thing that's able to put the Smithy into play is Summon? Why is Citadel playing a card that Summon is trying to play? And how does this lead to a Captain'd Smithy going into your play area?
Clearly Citadel triggers when you're about to play a card. It can't trigger after you already played it (like old Citadel did), because then it can't play it twice, which is the whole point of the errata.
So it triggers before you've actally played the card. When you "would play" it.
QuoteIf you play an emulator such as Band of Misfits, which then plays a Treasure Map, you can't trash the Treasure Map from the supply, so you will fail to gain 4 Golds.
I dont understand, why i'm trashing the Map from the supply? BoM is in play, emulating Map, so the emulated Map tells me to trash itself and another Map from my hand? Do i missunderstand an emulator?
Black Market basic rule:
The treasures played in my action phase remain in play until clean up? So, we're saying, if black market would be non-terminal, and i play conspirator after some money, i would get the cantrip effect of consp.?
Vassal is to Gamble as...These Events are all missing a +Buy.
Mountebank is to...
Event: $2
Each other player gains a Copper and a Curse.
Mandarin is to...
Event: $3
Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
Death Cart is to...
Event: $5
Trash an Action card from your hand
Noble Brigand is to...
Event: $1
Perform Noble Brigand's attack.
With Innovation and a villager, first play Kiln, then play a Conspirator. Before resolving Conspirator, gain a Conspirator and play it using Innovation. The second Conspirator is the third action played and thus an activated Conspirator. And by the time the first Conspirator is resolved, you have already played three actions so that it's also an activated Conspirator.
Sounds like Command card shenanigans of some sort.
Sure they pass cards (if they have some in hand), why wouldn't they?
Putting a card into play isn’t a separate step that is caused by playing a cardAnd yet the rules literally say "playing an Action card has three steps...".
I think it’s really that “move a card into play” is part of the definition of “play a card”; it’s not just a side-effect that comes from playing a card. Those 3 steps quoted in the OP that happen when you play a card aren’t just a list of things that result from playing a card, it’s what the term “play a card” means.
Under that understanding of “play a card”, after Throne Room plays a card, it expects that card to be in play. You can think of it as Throne Room really says all that quoted stuff rather than “play a card”. Throne Room doesn’t “know” anything that happens to the card when it gets played outside of the instructions written on a TR itself. It always acts under the assumption that nothing else has happened to change or move anything. So when it goes to play Mining Village the second time, it expects it to be in play because that’s right where it left it. Then when you get to the 2nd step in the “play a card” definition, the Stop-Moving rule kicks in and prevents Mining Village from moving.
Quote from: crjWhen I Throne a Mining Village and trash it on the first play, when I play it for a second time, what actual rule of the game stops it being moved from the Trash to my "in play" area?The Mining Village isn't where Throne Room expected it to be (which is, in play).
This is evidenced by the fact that if you play a Workshop with Captain, you are still able to gain that very same Workshop with it, so the "leaving it there" clearly does not apply to all card effects.Note that in case 2, the stop-moving rule is why the card doesn’t get trashed; because it isn’t where the effect expects it to be (in play).
In case 3, there are two separate reasons the card doesn’t get trashed. The stop-moving rule still applies because the effect expects the card to be in play, but instead it is in the trash (and it also didn’t move into in-play because of the stop-moving rule). And secondly, a card that is currently in the trash cannot be trashed because trashing involves moving to the trash.
Wait, why would the stop-moving rule be the issue in case 2? Imagine a card that works just like Captain, but without the "leaving it in place" rule. If this alt-Captain played Acting Troupe, then wouldn't the Acting Troupe trash itself and you'd get the +$2? Isn't the the main reason for the "leaving it in place" clause, specifically so that self-trashers don't end up in the trash?
No, “leaving it there” only means “don’t move it to the in-play area like you normally do when you play a card”. The fact the card is not in the in-play area, where the effect “trash this” expects it to be, is what prevents it from getting trashed. The reason for “Leaving it there” has nothing to do with self-trashers, it is needed to prevent the card from being moved to the in-play area (where it would then get discarded along with all other cards you played that turn; in effect letting you gain the card).
This came up in a game yesterday. Does that mean Necromancer can play a Lurker from the trash to gain that specific Lurker from the trash? It seems like it.
Yes. That's specifically mentioned on the wiki:QuoteThe restriction on movement only applies to effects that would have moved the card out of the play area if it were played normally, for example, Island will fail to move itself out of the trash and onto your Island Mat, although any other effect will still apply, such as moving a card from your hand onto your Island Mat; if a card is looking to move a card out of the trash, it may move itself - thus, if you choose to play a Lurker, Graverobber or Rogue in the trash, it can gain itself out of the trash as a result.
That wiki quote seems a bit misleading, if by "the restriction on movement" it's referring to the "leaving it there" text. "Leaving it there" does not apply to effects that would have moved the card out of the play area if it were played normally... the stop-moving rule is what causes that, not the text on Necromancer. Granted, the "leaving it there" is why stop-moving ends up coming into play; but it's not a special case of stop-moving or anything; it's the exact same thing that happens if you Throne Room a Pillage or a Madman.
