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Messages - Wingnut

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Black Market Setup
« on: March 31, 2014, 12:08:16 pm »
Just as a side thought, one of the things my group does when playing with Black Market is to choose one large expansion (or both Cornucopia and Guilds) and make that the Black Market with nothing from that expansion in the supply. Works well without having to use the randomizers.

Dominion Articles / Re: Exploiting Asymmetry
« on: October 24, 2013, 04:12:25 pm »
Embargo, too.  I one time opened Torturer/Embargo, got another Torturer, Embargoed the Torturers, and felt really bad because I crushed my opponent...

At that point I would think just biting the bullet and taking the curses with Torturer would be the right move. If the curses are going into your deck or you're playing with gimped hands anyway might as well take the curse from Embargo and start dealing out some pain yourself.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: A Representative Kingdom
« on: September 27, 2013, 08:19:59 pm »
Gardens (The simplest Alt-VP card and one of Donald X.'s pillars of the base set; any of those 4 or Smithy fits here though)
Swindler (Major game warping card with choices a plenty, would not be opposed to Torturer or Steward)
Fishing Village (obvious choice from Seaside)
Possession (For better or worse, Alchemy's most talked about and controversial card)
Bank (the biggest, best Kingdom treasure in Prosperity)
Menagerie (either this or Hunting Party but getting Menagerie to work while a newb is one of the more memorable things for many Dominion players)
Border Village (Probably the craziest of the on-gain cards and among the most fun to play)
Cultist (Ruins and on-trash, easy decision)
Baker (the early coin token and all sorts of other fun available here, my opinion could change once I play with it more)
Governor (the big powerhouse and most debated card of the promos)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Governor yet so I will. It is obviously powerful but harnessing it correctly without giving up major advantages to your opponent takes a lot of skill.

What I learned from this thread:

Many of us are jerks sometimes
We can all hash our differences out
The result is usually some memes
And I still can't understand any basic mathematical equations or anything of the sort

I think the larger player base for Dominion helped a lot of people.

Also, I am just better at Dominion. I reached the low 20s in 3 days on Dominion whereas with Innovation I don't know what to do against a higher level player (or really against anyone as the only real strategy I can manage well is some form of FRX.

As for game specific, I feel like Innovation lends itself to feeling helpless against a better player more often, even with just the base game. Compare that to Dominion where a good bit of the time you can win a lucky game or just find a board that suits you.

All that said, I haven't had a lot of time to play lately so maybe I will be better than I thought once I start playing again.

The skill gap is just crazy. I think because the user base is small but there are a lot of higher level player on all the time that it is intimidating. Also, I think the game is more enjoyable as a 3 player (or 4 player team) game and I would rather play that with my friends than on iso in the more hyper competitive 2 player environment.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Ranking the Expansions
« on: July 10, 2013, 09:16:35 pm »
ftl has it exactly right. Hunting Party + X is just boring and life sucking. Generally I go for anything that isn't that because it is so dull to play, usually to fairly awful results. I see Hunting Party as something dull like Smithy-BM played at a higher level. It just bores me to play it or beats me in humiliating fashion.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Ranking the Expansions
« on: July 10, 2013, 08:01:08 pm »
Like / Dislike

Base: Market / Chapel
Intrigue: Torturer / Masquerade or Pawn
Seaside: Ambassador / Embargo
Alchemy: Philosopher's Stone / Golem
Prosperity: Monument / Peddler
Cornucopia: Jester / Hunting Party or Tourament (I hate both of these cards with a passion)
Hinterlands: Margrave / IGG
Dark Ages: Death Cart / Shelters
Guilds: Baker / Stonemason
Promo: Envoy / Stash

Expansion Rankings (not including promo)
9 Cornucopia - I hate Tournament and Hunting Party. I am ambivalent at best about Harvest, Horse Traders and Forutne Teller. With that many cards I dislike or don't care at all about this is an easy choice (especially since the two cards I hate in this set are the two I would ban from all of Dominion if given a chance).
8 Intrigue - Turns too many games into slogs without a lot of great slog cards in the set. Torturer, Minion and Swindler are all fun, until you play an Intrigue only game and have to play with all of them in one set. Even worse is the lack of villages (yes there are 4 potential but Nobles, Shanty Town and Tribute are 3 of those). Also contains the space wasted on Scout.
7 Base - Just too much blah in this set, even with still interesting cards like Market, Witch, Militia and Gardens in the set. Chapel is really weak within the set and makes engine building to easy outside of the set (I also enjoy slogs which Chapel disincentivizes)
6 Alchemy - Potions are annoying but I like almost every card. Pretty mmuch all except Golem which I could never wrap my mind around.
5 Dark Ages - There are no really bad or even super disliked cards for me. That said the mind-warping craziness is a bit to zany for me at times (unless I get a Rats deck working).
4 Prosperity - Everyone likes mega turns. Simple. Most people like VP Chips as well.
3 Guilds - Baker's coin at the beginning is nice as are the coin tokens. Between that and the overpay this set has fun mechanics.
2 Seaside - Durations are great and the attacks in this set are among my favorites in the game.
1 Hinterlands - Instant gratification. On gain is amazing. Is the one later set that sometimes helps BM (balance between BM and engine is good people) and of course there is Silk Road, my favorite of the alt VP green cards.

Dominion Articles / Re: Rebuild Mirrors
« on: June 19, 2013, 02:30:18 pm »
Here's a more taxing question. What is rebuild like in 3 player games and how does strategy change?

That is a taxing question. I would imagine that would be one hell of a fast game where one player really gets left behind and screwed.

I would imagine I'm not playing the mirror if I think both of my opponents will do so and there is a decent engine on the board. I feel 2 people playing Rebuild won't clear everything so fast with the extra green cards giving me more time to finish what I'm doing engine wise (or heck even BM wise)

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Is Expand overpriced?
« on: June 16, 2013, 10:03:32 pm »
I wonder if Expand would still be fine at $7 if you gained the card in hand (like Mine or Trading Post). It does feel a bit expensive at $7 even though I buy it sometimes.

Guilds Previews / Re: The Expert's Expansion?
« on: June 09, 2013, 02:33:55 pm »
The consensus in the preview threads didn't seem to be about differentiating between newbies and veterans, but rather between those who can count cards and those who can't.

While that is true most if not all of the people in the preview threads are veterans. While the card interactions may not be as complicated the presence of coin tokens is certain to cause AP to a ridiculous extent unless the new person just burns the coin tokens immediately. Part of the reason I don't teach new people with Intrigue is the choices on cards and having more options for new people is generally a bad idea. Coins adds more options even if there are other sets that add many more. As for the deck tracking, that will be rewarded with this set, no question.

Guilds Previews / Re: How Guilds affects existing... Things
« on: June 07, 2013, 06:32:57 pm »
I agree that power cards will likely be in the game sooner in a lot of circumstances. Any good engine board with Baker and Border Village involved looks absolutely frightening. It would certainly seem we are delving further and further into engine building and further and further away from BM deck competing well.

Help! / Re: I just don't know.
« on: May 21, 2013, 12:16:21 am »
They do if you use Governor's remodel power first though that is a bit counter-intuitive (I am assuming for this purpose that I win the Gov split as an opponent going Torturer seems unlikely to win the Gov split). That said, maybe I was confused and I was thinking Minion engine augmented by Governor. I still think that roasts a deck targeting Grand Market and Torturer (though the Torturer engine with Ironmonger and City does intrigue me a bit even if I think it's too slow).

Also, I see little risk in using the remodel power in this game. Only Ironmonger is at cost 4 and I feel like massing those is a mistake here (this is one of the routes to the Torturer engine but I still think its too slow).

Help! / Re: I just don't know.
« on: May 20, 2013, 06:58:12 pm »
I agree with dondon Woodcutter over Silver here as everything you really want at costs 5 and 6 are cantrips. Torturer and Grand Market both look like pretty big traps here (Torturer moreso than Grand Market as you'll gladly take a GM if available while Torturer requires Cities to really work).

Given the presence of both Minion and Governor, I would expect to build my strategy around Governor as its Gold gaining is also Silver gaining clogging an opponents Minion deck and then pick up a couple of Minions to to reduce handsize after using Gov for draw. No matter, this game will be lightning fast, much faster than the 19 turns the OPs game went.

Help! / Re: thoughts on this board?
« on: May 10, 2013, 06:08:44 pm »
This looks like engine to me. Especially with Fortress in play as there are lots of $5 targets for Governor's remodel if its used before the final turn (as it should be at least a couple of times).

I think the open is Amb/Forager here transitioning into Gov/Monument with Fortress as the main village. I just don't see Cities powering up even to level 2 here until after Governor is gone and by that time it will be too late to do anything with those.

Game Reports / Re: Hey look, Scout!
« on: May 05, 2013, 09:16:18 pm »
While Scout might have been useful to your strategy, I refuse to believe any strategy there with a Scout bought that early could have beaten a well played Chapel deck given the presence of Courtyard, Laboratory, Market and Festival on the board. That screams engine that doesn't need Scout, even 3-player.

I've played so many games with a similar engine that it has become boring.  So I wanted to do something else, and I did, successfully.  Although it doesn't look like my opponents really knew what they were doing...  They didn't get their chapels until turns 6 and 7... which seems far too late.

I know the feeling. The Scout was well-implemented for what you did. For something different I might have tried something with Festival/Market (extra buys) and Philosopher's Stone (just for fun as I know that doesn't win here unless everyone doesn't know what they're doing).

Game Reports / Re: Hey look, Scout!
« on: May 05, 2013, 11:23:47 am »
While Scout might have been useful to your strategy, I refuse to believe any strategy there with a Scout bought that early could have beaten a well played Chapel deck given the presence of Courtyard, Laboratory, Market and Festival on the board. That screams engine that doesn't need Scout, even 3-player.

The problem with Scout isn't that it isn't useful. It's that its top uses nearly always can be beaten by other cards.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What is your favorite Promo card?
« on: May 05, 2013, 11:17:52 am »
Envoy and Governor are my favorites. Governor for its sheer power and implementation of theme and Envoy because it changes game strategy and changes the thought process. If I had to pick one, it would be Envoy.

As for the others. Walled Village is a village. Nothing more, nothing less. Anything to add another village to the randomizer pool is fine with me. Stash is just dumb to me. At least at that price point. And Black Market. Well, its Black Market. Swingy and sometimes completely infuriating. Not a favorite but I will gladly play it every so often.

This is, of course a turn 3/4 hand.

Turn 3 is Chapel, Copper, OvergrownEstate, Hovel, Copper and turn 4 is Vault with Grand Market/Goons on board and Necropolis in hand as well as it is useful.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What is your favorite village?
« on: April 25, 2013, 05:26:42 am »
I can't decide between Inn and Shanty Town, both of which are nontraditional and are fun to try and play, especially as the only village on an engine board.

News and Announcements / Re: Board Game Strategy
« on: April 24, 2013, 09:07:11 pm »
There is actually quite a bit to mine with 7 Wonders particularly with the expansions (Cities is great, Leaders is ok to play but offers additional diversity).

Different ideas for articles other than what has been mentioned include:

- Basic articles for different numbers of player as what's available changes quite a bit and changes the game quite a bit. For example Marketplace-based/Olympia B side strategies are a ton more powerful in 3-player than in larger games where your neighbor has a huge influence.
- Card articles for the Leaders and Cities expansions as those are all unique and not in every game and often change the entire game quite a bit.
- How to best inhibit others strategies without turning your own game into a mess (this happens quite often amongst average players)
- Recognizing when it is best to abandon your wonder and change to another strategy

I would be willing to contribute if this gets started as well.

Ok I'll take a shot at this even though the first kingdom is a great way to do this

Apprentice - Trash for benefit and more cards. Showing a new player different ways to draw more cards is always a good idea. Not overwhelmingly difficult to understand (especially with no potion cost cards in play).
Market - +Card, +Buy, +Action, +Coin. Nothing better for a first game.
Rabble - A generally simple attack that isn't a curser or a hand size attack. It's also important to have a +3 card draw. Normally I wouldn't include this, but given part of the OP's idea is that he doesn't Smithy-BM available this is the next best option for +3 cards I think.
Laboratory - Simple easy way of increasing hand size without dead draw

Cutpurse - Discarding others copper is not too strong, but it can still hurt.
Moneylender - Get rid of those coppers that are being discarded. Also doubles as a get rid of copper because it is bad card.

Village - Have to have a village and the simplest one will do nicely.
Warehouse - Sifter and I think easier to understand than Cellar. Or at least the decision on what to discard is easier.

Haven - Simple duration that also is cheap. Allows a card to be bought even when overactioned.
Moat - With an attack (any attack) in the set I think having a way to block is important in the first game.

On a 4/3 I think I might open Wandering Minstrel/Masq just for the extra cycling as I transition into Bridge. Since I will want the Minstrel at some point anyway, might as well get it early and see if it helps me cycle through to Masq an extra time.

That said I could be insane here or maybe its just I've been playing IRL 3 and 4 player with village idiot level players lately.

Game Reports / Re: IRL I opened with Mint...
« on: March 18, 2013, 02:26:26 pm »
I once played a game IRL where I opened Mint/Pawn. It worked great. As long as you don't draw the dreaded Mint/C/EEE hand (a problem even on the Mint/FG open sometimes) this is great on a weak engine board as Pawn will likely be the plus buy source and can generate that one extra coin needed to reach Silver. I wouldn't play it often, but on the right board (maybe a +2 Cards engine or to setup a Golden Deck without Chapel) it can be nice.

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