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Messages - jimjam

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Graverobber: Pretty sick with KC, I think. Seems kind of annoying if both players are fighting over good trash items. Seems kinda overpowered, compared to Expand, since Expand only works with a good engine anyways.

Poor House: Obviously Vault, Secret Chamber, Black Market work well. Might work with gardens (the lack of plus buy hurts). Duke/Duchy might also be good, especially with say Fishing Village or Lighthouse.

Sage: Too bad it doesn't cycle tunnel. But it seems like it could get your deck running pretty fast. Actually, it seems like it may make games swingy from shuffle luck.

Counting House+Sage+Stash should be great.

I can't think of anything not obvious about day 2.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Exception to the rule
« on: May 24, 2012, 03:46:51 pm »
Yep, tradering a silver from Thief or NB trashes a silver

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Exception to the rule
« on: May 24, 2012, 05:23:19 am »
Ah, I forgot about all those. The one I'm thinking of has a very trivial effect, involving a standard "gain Silver into the discard".

Puzzles and Challenges / Exception to the rule
« on: May 24, 2012, 02:39:02 am »
Usually tradering a silver into a silver is pointless. When isn't it? There is one obvious solution and one less obvious one, that I can think of.
(I think this puzzle hasn't been done before, with a quick search)

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Please look at my hand!
« on: May 08, 2012, 04:53:14 pm »
I'm not sure if you can really generally model this metagame things. It should depend on the personality of the players.

In which situations will my opponent show his hand? Of course I could ignore it and don't be hurt, but I could also infer that he wants to hurt me, so I should do the opposite of what his hand suggest, to even improve my chances. Or I could know that he knows me to know that. Where is the recursion most likely to stop? I might be thinking that I can win this mindgame...

And can I really choose to ignore information? If I have two possibilities, one say high risk high reward, one low risk low reward, and I happen to get some information, can I really make the same decision as without this information? Which of these ways to go might depend a lot on intuition, and this might be contanimated.
Under the expectimax algorithm (i.e. you assume both players have really powerful computers and can calculate every single decision they could make), what happens is that the player will try to decide what % of the time he will reveal his hand and when he won't, for each different scenario where he could reveal his hand,
such that his opponent will not be able to ascertain the player's intentions well enough to gain an advantage in expected utility. However, the opponent's strategy of choosing to ignore performs at least as well when he has nonzero %s as when he has 0 %s, and there might be even more benefits if he selectively doesn't ignore the information. So choosing to never reveal his hand is an optimal strategy.
I haven't played bridge (though I've played Napoleon, which is similar), but that is also a game that can be modeled under expectimax. Even things like playing conventions and metagame behavior can be modeled, because those are either artifacts of non-optimal gameplay, or, if they aren't, will be settled upon by expectimax, which doesn't understand the notion of communication, but simply sees that it's the best way to go.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Please look at my hand!
« on: May 08, 2012, 03:36:23 am »
Again, you have not demonstrated that an opponent who always ignores your information is hurt by you giving them information.

If one places the ability to reveal the hand inside the framework of the 2-person game, it does not increase that player's utility under optimal gameplay, because the opponent is able to consider the space of possibilities in which you would choose to reveal your hand.

Theory already gave a good, simple example of where you might "trick" your opponent. The gain in utility stems from a psychological fault (i,e, the opponent is not playing optimally by failing to model the choice to reveal the hand as being part of the game), not a game-theoretic one.

If however, there was a rule that said "During your opponent's turn, roll a dice, if you get a 1, reveal your hand", then yes, there are situations in which you would want a 1 to be rolled.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Please look at my hand!
« on: May 06, 2012, 10:52:05 pm »
There can't really be an answer in a 2 player game with optimal gameplay, since the opponent can just ignore the information given.
Not necessarily. Optimal gameplay can result in a worse decision if the probability of a better decision is quite small. For example:

Let's say there is one Colony left, no other victory cards available, and 2 Curses. You are up by 9 points, so that if your opponent gets the last Colony, he wins, but if he gets the last 2 curses, he cannot win. Your opponent has 2 Golds, 2 Estates, and a Wishing Well in hand, and you have a Village and 2 Witches and 2 Estates. You opponent's deck somehow consists of 10 Lighthouses, 1 Platinum, and the rest are Victory cards; your deck has no other Curse-givers besides the two in hand. If he doesn't see your hand, he plays the Wishing Well, drawing an Estate, and wishes for a Platinum, which he gets to buy the Colony and win the game. This is the optimal decision, since he is unlikely to get the required $11 in his hand again, and since it is unlikely that you have both Witches in your hand. If he looks at your hand, he sees both Witches, which, if you are allowed to play, will make him lose. So, he wishes for a Lighthouse, but finds a Platinum instead. This is the optimal decision, since he is more likely to find a Lighthouse, and since if he doesn't either play a Lighthouse or end the game this turn, he will lose.

No, your situation contradicts itself by both saying the Platinum is on top and that the top card is undetermined. Nor does it demonstrate a situation in which a player who always ignores your information is hurt by seeing your hand.
blueblimp's situation is legitimate but in a game-theoretic perspective, in a 2-player zero-sum game, information can never hurt your expected utility.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Please look at my hand!
« on: May 06, 2012, 12:53:28 am »
There can't really be an answer in a 2 player game with optimal gameplay, since the opponent can just ignore the information given.
In 3 player:
It's the Outpost turn of the player before you. He plays Outpost accidentally through Golem, and has been Rabbled with 3 Provinces on top. There is one Colony left, and he can either play a Saboteur or a Woodcutter, and has $9 in coin. If he buys the Colony, he'll move from third to second place.
The 3rd player has 12 Dukes and 12 Silk Roads, and a decent deck. She's very slightly behind you.
Your deck is pretty much trash so you want to end the game ASAP. The player before you sees that you have a Masquerade , and 4 Duchies in hand. You also have 1 Colony, then 2 Duchies on top of your deck, from Rabble. You also have $11 coming in from duration cards.
Before, your opponent may risk trying to prolong the game, but he sees that if he Sabotages you, you will take his Province and pass a Duchy, which will give a slight lead to the 3rd player. Thus he will be in last place (and you will be in second).

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Checkmate
« on: May 05, 2012, 05:36:42 pm »
Thief: Steal Harems and devalue Gardens.
Noble Brigand similar but much harder to use (only takes Silver,Gold, gives Copper).

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: May 03, 2012, 02:27:06 am »
$0 -/Reaction
If you burned your hand trying to play Fire Insurance, you may want to use this to prevent further injury.
Forget winning and seek medical attention.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: In which Sarah buys a duchy
« on: April 28, 2012, 07:00:46 pm »
Least: -10 points: Embargoes, and lose the Duchy with a Watchtower or Trader.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: "Name a card, and do X"
« on: April 21, 2012, 03:46:18 pm »
I can't imagine the card bringing much to the table that Gardens doesn't. After all, the only difference is maybe like a few actions and estates. And it would likely be a must-buy in most games with Counting House.

It would be interesting if it counted non-copper treasures, or the number of treasure types you have at least say..3 of.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: "Name a card, and do X"
« on: April 19, 2012, 04:11:43 am »
^That sounds overpowered even without the treasure and $1 status.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: On the recieving end of "Not a misclick"
« on: April 16, 2012, 12:38:46 am »
My solution for the other puzzle:If he has possession and I have KCs, Ambassadors, and draw, I'll trash the colony.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Not a misclick
« on: April 14, 2012, 04:16:53 pm »
oh, right >.<

Ok, here's a crappy patchup: Your opponent is running Throne Rooms instead of KCs, and some Saboteurs/Swindlers; Since you start with no Colonies, you can play them first without fear of destroying anything important.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Not a misclick
« on: April 14, 2012, 03:16:00 am »
Skirting blueblimp's rules to the max:

Your opponent has draw, KCs, Ambassadors.
You foolishly have nothing of note but one Ambassador, one Possession, and one Colony (and I guess a Village). The other 7 colonies are still in the pile.
You possess your opponent and send the Colony over.
On their turn, you KC Ambassador all 8 colonies back to yourself.
Your opponent then rage-quits Dominion forever.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: One-Shot Deck
« on: April 11, 2012, 02:53:29 pm »
4 players, 3 turns:

Player 1: Noble Brigand
Player 2: Masquerade
Player 3: Treasure Map
Player 4: Treasure Map

P2: Masquerade->P3 gives TM to P4.
P4: Treasure Map->4 golds

P4: $13->Colony

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: April 08, 2012, 09:38:44 pm »
Your opponent won't be so happy about his chapel-ed engine after this:

Action - $6
Reveal cards from a deck until you reveal 2 Treasure cards. Put those Treasure cards in your hand and discard the other revealed cards.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The exponential card
« on: April 05, 2012, 06:01:02 am »
Wouldn't any draw in any finite deck be bounded linearly by the size of the deck (unless you're executing a KC-gain combo)? Under this criterion, Crossroads wouldn't be exponential.

The way I would do this rigorously is to define the draw growth of a card c as follows: c(n,k)=max (over all finite decks D without any c's, multisets of cards K with size k, none of which are c): cards in the hand after starting with n c's and K in hand, and playing only c's.
Then,c(n) is the max over k the growth rate of c(n,k) using traditional asymptotic analysis. Crossroads is exponential in this circumstance.
Now for something to be unbounded, it would mean that for any function f:N->Z, there exists a k where c(n,k)>f(n) for all n (which means c(n) has to be undefined).
of course, c(n,k) is undefined for Scrying Pool for all n in Z+ and k, so it would be unbounded.
Counting House is also unbounded in this criterion.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The exponential card
« on: April 05, 2012, 01:17:17 am »
Scrying Pool is unbounded.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: One-Shot Deck
« on: April 03, 2012, 02:43:53 am »
Those are pretty sweet solutions. The trashing really speeds up the deck.

Here's one without reshuffling:
$5 Mandarin x8
$5 Inn
Mandarin+Copper->Mining Village
Inn (Not discarding estates) Mandarin x2->Inn
Mandarin+Copper->Throne Room
Inn Mandarin x2 (Putting estates back)->Inn
Mining Village Mandarin TR Mandarin->Colony

At a whopping 14 turns. Nasty.
There's probably a better way with Forge.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: One-Shot Deck
« on: April 02, 2012, 04:37:28 pm »
$5 ->Mandarin
$5 ->Mandarin
$4->Mining Village
$2->Copper (or $1->, or $0->)
$7 (Mining Village Mandarin) ->Forge
Forge(Mandarin, 3x Estate) ->Colony
You can also use Throne Room, Quarry, Contraband, or Cache instead of Mining Village.
The $2 turn is annoying, but most likely unavoidable.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Exception to the rule
« on: April 02, 2012, 04:13:51 am »
You know your opponent has possession. Simple and realistic.

Puzzles and Challenges / One-Shot Deck
« on: April 01, 2012, 09:36:40 pm »
Here's a challenge that bends the standard rules:
At your cleanup phase, trash all cards in play.
How many substantially different ways can you get to Colony, with perfect shuffle luck? Here are two simple examples:
$4->Treasure Map
$4->Treasure Map
Treasure Map->4 Golds


What's the next fastest way to do this?
It involves Mandarin, most likely

edit: fixed, thanks.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Mega-curse turn
« on: March 26, 2012, 05:27:26 pm »
Going along eHalcyon's last solution, Saboteur to IGG also works. Is there a materially different solution? Jomini's is one I wouldn't have thought of.

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