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Messages - Donald X.

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Well, two threads for the Qvist rankings is better than three threads for the same expansion recommendation question.
But how should I store the cards? That's what I want to know.

No idea why that person did that, but we did encounter software bugs that can mess up the rankings in ordered mode.
I am going to guess, they just had their list backwards.

I also thought that posting it in the wrong order and not starting with #1 is bad.
But having two threads is even worse.
Two threads is nothing; to see all the comments on the rankings you have to go to another site.

Can someone explain stuff to me, as someone who has just briefly used Discord? It looks like just a big chat room... like Slack or Skype or whatever. Is it not? I don't understand how it's a substitute or replacement for a forum; it seems like a completely different thing. Someone could ask a question, and the person who knows the answer logs on the next day; they won't see that question, because lots of other messages have been sent since then. How would a person even start to see what new stuff has been posted since they last checked?

The way people talk about Discord makes me think I must be completely misunderstanding what it is. But I've seen it first-hand, though just a tiny bit. It looks like a chat room.
It's multiple chat rooms, mostly themed around Dominion topics. The channels are like threads, although they will end up with sub-topics that can be like threads too. A new topic getting talked about a bunch, or the anticipation of that, can cause a new channel to get made, e.g. the current cardqvist channel; when it dies down it gets archived, e.g. the championship channel. You can see what people are saying, reply to them, start a new conversation.

I mean, so the qvist lists have been posted here, and people have discussed them some here, but way more in the discord channel. On the last page as of this moment, it is mostly talk about Scepter. They talked about Scepter; it worked out fine. People said things and said things about things. It in no way suffered from the lack of ability of someone to easily join the conversation many hours later, and in fact you could join that conversation now, or mention something someone said hours earlier if you wanted.

otoh, the qvist lists themselves aren't on the discord; that content is better for forums or front pages.

When I log on, it jumps me to the start of new stuff in each channel as I click on it. I scroll through it at whatever pace, depending on how interesting it is. There's a lot of "here's a board, what would you have done differently" and I don't usually read those.

I recommend just trying it out; go on, say something about a topic, see how it goes.

You didn't necessarily, but the "someone else" section does and it's in the guide.
Yes; other people overrate Prosperity, and that's what that section is about, what other people say.

It's fine that Patron is strictly* better than Silver at ; pretty much all the reasons that Donald avoids having a better-than-Silver at only apply to strictly better, not to strictly* better.
Patron causes the problem that I avoided for many years by not making Silver-with-a-bonus at $4, though it dodges being strictly better than $4 Silver on paper because you need to play it once to have a villager to not draw it dead. I decided to live with it for that one card and in practice it doesn't come up so often, though I have seen it.

Kudos to Donald for posting this. That said, Donald seems not favorable enough to Renaissance and too favorable to Nocturne. Renaissance sets a new standard in terms of adding a lot to the game without as much complexity as some other recent sets. For the high degree of complexity, Nocturne does not add as much to the game as the other recent sets (and the card pool isnít as favorable to decks that draw cards, that is, what I and many others perceive as the most fun decks) as other recent sets).
I was trying not to say "this is the best one, as if my opinion is the one to listen to" outside of that one section on the best sets, which lists both Renaissance and Nocturne and I mean I think they both belong there.

I did not put Prosperity on that list, or in the runners-up list in that section, so, I don't see how I overrated it (@Awaclus).

One thing that stands out to me is that Donald doesn't mention Duration cards in regards to Empires, Nocturne, or Renaissance. I guess the idea was that Adventure's "Duration cards return" was meant as "starting with Adventures, Duration cards became part of every set". But that's not clear; if I didn't know otherwise, I would have thought that Durations only existed in Seaside and Adventures.
"They finally came back in Adventures, and the later sets each have a few Duration cards." I guess it doesn't mention that Nocturne is especially heavy in them.

Ha - thanks. I didn't expect to get input from the man himself. Sorry I didn't find your post before posting myself - very thorough and helpful.
It wasn't there; I just posted it. I've had it sitting around, and saw your post and thought, oh yeah, I should post that.

For you in particular, I recommend Empires for variety and interaction, or Intrigue 2E for accessibility.

I'd appreciate advice, opinions, thoughts to consider. I really do want to cap at four for financial reasons, so I'm vested in optimizing my decision. Thanks!
Here's what I think:

Lots of people ask: what Dominion expansion should I get next? They have different criteria in mind and well this guide will try to answer that question for a variety of criteria.

It can be helpful to look at the cards, see what's in the expansions. The wiki has images of all of them:


Mainly there's the main set and 12 expansions. You technically don't need the main set - you could know the game and get Base Cards plus any expansions. So I have to consider it too.

Small - 150 cards: Alchemy, Cornucopia, Guilds
Regular - 300 cards: Intrigue, Seaside, Prosperity, Hinterlands, Empires, Renaissance
Large - 400 cards: Adventures
Extra large - 500 cards: Dominion (due to base cards), Dark Ages, Nocturne

Dominion: The main set - includes base cards needed to play. The focus is on simplicity.
Intrigue: Cards that give you a choice, and victory cards that do something.
Seaside: Duration cards - they do something this turn and next turn.
Alchemy: Potions - a new resource that most of the cards in the set require to buy them.
Prosperity: Adds Platinum and Colony as a step above Gold and Province; Treasures that do things, VP tokens (worth 1 VP at end of game).
Cornucopia: Variety theme.
Hinterlands: "When you gain/buy this" theme.
Dark Ages: Trash theme; Shelters to replace starting Estates; Ruins which are similar to Curses; Spoils which is a one-use Gold.
Guilds: Coffers tokens ($ you can save), overpay (pay extra for a card to get an effect when buying it).
Adventures: Duration cards return; Reserve cards you can save until you want to use them; Events, effects you can buy that aren't cards.
Empires: VP tokens return; more Events; Landmarks, things you don't buy that modify scores; Debt that lets you pay for a card later; Split piles with two or more cards in them.
Nocturne: Night - a new phase after the Buy phase with cards usable then; Boons/Hexes - small random good/bad things that cards generate; non-supply Spirits; cards with Heirlooms that replace starting Coppers.
Renaissance: Coffers tokens return; Villager tokens (+1 Action you can save); Projects, abilities you can buy that aren't cards; Artifacts, abilities only one player can have at a time.

But wait, there are other products you might find. I'll ignore these elsewhere in this guide, but let's see what they are.

Dominion and Intrigue were changed, with 6 cards dropped and 7 cards added. Thus we have:

Dominion, first edition: This is the only way to get the 6 cards dropped from Dominion. They were dropped with good reason! You don't need this. And it's not in print (in English), though there are lots of copies out there.
Intrigue, first edition: Similarly this is how you get the 6 cards dropped from Intrigue. You don't need them. Also this version of Intrigue was standalone - it has the base cards needed to play, meaning it's 500 cards.
Dominion Update Pack: Just the 7 cards added to Dominion. If you don't have them they are a great source of 7 pretty simple but still interesting cards. This is out of print (the expectation being that the people who wanted it got it, and new copies of Dominion just have the new cards).
Intrigue Update Pack: And the 7 cards added to Intrigue. They are pretty sweet imo. Out of print.

The other expansions through Adventures got new versions with improved layout, but no new cards.

There's more:

Base Cards: Just the basic cards needed to play - Copper Silver Gold Estate Duchy Province Curse - plus a few similar things that have appeared in expansions - Platinum Colony Potion. Once they were prettier than the main set / expansion versions; now everything is even prettier. You could want this in order to aviod buying Dominion itself, though it's a fine product, or if you want to go to 5-6 players.
Promos: Over the years some promos have come out. They're are a mixed bag, typically too weak or too strong. Some of them are fun though. You can buy them at BoardGameGeek and support the site at the same time.
Mixed Box: It's Cornucopia plus Guilds in one box; we no longer sell them separately (in English). I couldn't quite bring myself to combine them in this guide though.
Big Box: The current one is Dominion plus Intrigue plus extra base cards so you can play with 5-6 players. The old out of print one was Dominion plus Prosperity plus Alchemy, for some reason.

Non-English language versions include different Big Boxes and different Mixed Boxes and random assortment products; I don't have all the information on those. Hobby Japan also makes rethemes - mixes of cards from multiple expansions, with different flavor. You can look those things up on BoardGameGeek if you want. 999 Games makes an intro product in Dutch that's smaller than the normal main game.


If you just want a few sentences more on each set, I'm there for you.

Dominion: Some of the simplest cards in the game, covering all the most common kinds of abilities. Most of you have this already. If you don't, I recommend getting it; while it's possible to get base cards elsewhere, these cards are great to add to your games.

Intrigue: This expands on the main game in the simplest way possible, without much to send you to the rulebook. There is a theme of cards that give you a choice - something like "choose one..." or "name a card." There are also Victory cards with abilities, including Action - Victory cards and a Treasure - Victory card, plus a few cards that like those cards.

Seaside: Introduces Duration cards - orange cards that set up something to happen in the future. Many of them simply do something this turn, and that thing or another thing on your next turn. The rest of the set has some related cards, like stuff that interacts with the top of your deck. Duration cards were much admired on their debut. They finally came back in Adventures, and the later sets each have a few Duration cards. But they started out here.

Alchemy: Adds a new basic pile, Potions, which produce a new resource. To buy cards with the potion symbol in the cost, you need to play a Potion. The set also has an action-chaining theme, which it got to make sure that most of the cards were worth buying a Potion for even if no other cards in the game required a Potion. Some people adore Alchemy, but it tends to be people's least favorite set.

Prosperity: The overall theme is "spendy." There are Platinum and Colony, new base cards above Gold and Province; there are Treasures that do things when you play them or while they're in play; and there are at last cards that cost $7. There are also three cards that use VP tokens - a way to have VP without it being a card in your deck.

Cornucopia: There are no new rulebook mechanics in this small expansion. The theme of the set is variety, with cards that care about the variety of cards you have in your deck, or in your hand, or in play, and some cards that can get you more variety.

Hinterlands: This is a simpler set. The main theme is cards that do something (extra) either when you buy them or when you gain them. There are 3 Reactions, 3 special Treasures, and 3 Victory cards, but that's only 7 cards total. A number of cards push "filtering" - getting through your deck without using all the cards.

Dark Ages: This is a sprawling set full of crazy combos. There is a trash theme, cards that do something when you trash them, lots of ways to trash things, and a few things that care what's in the trash or can take cards out of it. The Ruins pile is like Curses but more interesting, with 3 cards handing them out. The Spoils pile is an unbuyable one-use Gold that 3 cards give out. Starting Estates can be replaced with Shelters, which have little abilities to spice up those games.

Guilds: A small set with two themes: Coffers tokens, which you can cash in in your Buy phase for +$1, and overpay, which is cards that let you pay extra for them in order to generate an effect when you buy the card.

Adventures: Duration cards return, including Duration attacks and Duration cards that just hang around in play all game. The Tavern mat gives you a place to put Reserve cards, which go to your mat when played and can be "called" off later to do what they do. For the first time a new kind of card is shuffled in with the randomizers (or kept separate if you prefer): Events. A game can have 0-2 Events; they give you an effect you can buy in your Buy phase, but aren't a card in anyone's deck. There are two Travellers, cards that upgrade themselves four times each.

Empires: VP tokens return, with lots of uses for them, including cards that they pile up on. In addition to more Events, there are Landmarks, more randomizer-deck cards that can be added to a game. They provide a way to score VP, sometimes with tokens or sometimes just calculated at the end of the game. You use 0-2 Events/Landmarks total. Some cards cost Debt, which means you don't have to pay for the card now, but can't buy other things until you finish paying off the Debt. There are 5 Split piles that have two different cards in them - five copies of each - plus the Castles pile with 8 different Victory cards.

Nocturne: This expansion adds a new phase, Night, which occurs after the Buy phase and before Clean-up. The only thing it means is, there are Night cards that you only play then. This lets them care about what happened during the turn, and many of them do; others go right into your hand when gained, so you can buy one and then immediately play it at Night. There are two small decks of random good/bad effects, the Boons and Hexes, and cards that cause you to turn over one of those cards and see what happens. Seven cards have Heirlooms, which are special Treasures that replace a starting Copper in games using that card. Several cards use new non-Supply cards, the Spirits. Overall it's the most flavorful set.

Renaissance: This set is much simpler than the last few, but still has four mechanics. Coffers tokens return, paired with Villagers, which are tokens you can cash in in your Action phase for +1 Action. Projects are randomizer-deck things like Events, but instead of getting a one-time effect, you get a permanent ability. You use 0-2 Events/Landmarks/Project per game. Artifacts are non-deck cards that only one player can have at a time; the cards that produce them will let you take them from other players.


The main set is especially simple; start there! Intrigue is next simplest, adding just "Victory cards can do things" as a concept, and never really sending you to the rulebook. Hinterlands is pretty simple, and then, simple but with more new stuff, we have Seaside, Prosperity, and Renaissance.


You get better with experience; I think the later sets - Adventures, Empires, Nocturne, Renaissance - are all more polished than the earlier sets, with fewer duds, and lots of exciting content. I also especially like the revamped Intrigue, and Dark Ages. Note however that Adventures, Empires, and Nocturne are the three most complex expansions.


Adventures, Empires, and Renaissance add not just kingdom cards but also Events / Landmarks / Projects, which add lots of variety to the game. After those, some expansions mess with the starting decks or basic cards: Prosperity adds Platinum / Colony; Dark Ages has Shelters and is also 500 cards; Nocturne has Heirlooms.


Empires has the most interaction overall: it has attacks, split piles, and Gathering piles (they accumulate tokens one player will get), plus many of the Landmarks are interactive.


Renaissance only has two, getting much of its interaction from the Artifacts that players can compete for. Prosperity and Empires only have three, although Prosperity's three get played a lot. All three sets make up for that reduced interaction by having more non-attack interaction.


Intrigue and Seaside have some especially vicious attacks, attacks that make the game be about that card. Dark Ages has fewer attacks by %, but they include the ones that give out Ruins cards, plus the Knights pile; if you like attacks, you will want to see the Knights. Nocturne has attacks that give out Hexes, which are random effects.


Any new expansion you get will favor the best player for a while. Empires helps the better player via VP tokens, so many ways to catch up to a lead in Provinces. Dark Ages and Renaissance help the player better at spotting card interactions. Renaissance and Guilds help the player better at knowing when to use up Coffers and Villagers.


Nocturne has the most randomness, with completely random Boons and Hexes. Dark Ages and Renaissance push card interactions, and can produce lots of crazy surprising ones.


Prosperity has a "big" theme, with Platinum and Colony as the next step from Gold and Province, and cards costing $7. Empires picks up from there, with a treasure that doubles your $, an Event that makes 15 VP total, and cards that cost 8 debt.


Nocturne and Adventures stand out as having more thematic cards than other expansions - at the expense of, they're more complex too. Dominion's theme gets singled out some for ridicule, but well, whether that's your stance or not, those expansions are heavier on theme.


Empires has VP tokens and Debt tokens; Prosperity has VP tokens and coin tokens; Seaside has coin tokens and Embargo tokens (they are only used with Embargo). Guilds and Renaissance have coin tokens. In terms of actually using the tokens, Empires and Renaissance get the most out of their metal.


Dominion, Intrigue, and Hinterlands have no extra bits and no extra piles.


Dominion: Intrigue does the least to stray from the basics.
Intrigue: Empires has lots of VP tokens, which are more non-deck VP. Guilds and Renaissance push choices.
Seaside: Duration cards return with a vengeance in Adventures.
Alchemy: If you liked the action-chaining, try Dark Ages.
Prosperity: Empires is kind of a sequel to Prosperity.
Cornucopia: There isn't much that cares about variety outside of Cornucopia, but some sets help you get variety - Dark Ages, Nocturne.
Hinterlands: All later sets have a little when-gain, but Renaissance has more than usual.
Dark Ages: Renaissance has some more trash-combo stuff. Nocturne has more non-Supply piles and starting-deck cards.
Guilds: Renaissance revisits Coffers. Hinterlands debuted when-gain, related to the overpay cards.
Adventures: Seaside debuted Duration cards. Events are also in Empires, and the related Projects appear in Renaissance. If you liked the flavor, Nocturne is especially flavorful.
Empires: This is kind of a sequel to Prosperity. Adventures debuted Events, and Renaissance has the related Projects.
Nocturne: Dark Ages has more non-Supply piles and starting-deck cards. Adventures also has fantasy elements.
Renaissance: Guilds introduced Coffers. Dark Ages has more trash-combo stuff, Hinterlands more when-gain. Adventures and Empires have Events, which are related to Projects.


Seaside and Prosperity! When they came out they were the best sets. People have a lot of nostalgia for them. Duration cards from Seaside were popular; some people never want to play without Platinum and Colony from Prosperity. Among the later sets, Empires was especially well received.

If you look at BoardGameGeek ratings, expansion ratings are always warped; an expansion (correctly) tends to only get rated by people who have it, which tends to be people who were pretty pleased up to then. So expansions rate higher than games, and later expansions rate higher because the people who bought ten expansions are bigger fans than the people who bought two. So you can't just look at the ratings and get a clear story. Still, trying to take that into account, Prosperity and Empires stand out as outliers, higher than expected.


None of the above categories recommend these expansions. In the case of Alchemy, well, it's most people's least favorite expansion; I'd get it last. Cornucopia I think is great; it just doesn't fall into any of those categories. The variety theme is a unique thing that people like but don't specifically ask for.


There you have it. When people say, what expansion should I get next, here is a thing you can link them to.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion.Online issues
« on: February 17, 2019, 08:34:19 pm »
So after years of IRL, I am trying the Dominion.Online.  Question 1) where do I post my concerns about the game? I test software for a living so I have found a few issues, but do not want to make them public.  2) Have they considered allowing a version of purchasing playing a number of games per purchase vs per month payment plans?
I don't know what they've considered. Their forums are:

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion current Popularity?
« on: February 17, 2019, 01:42:07 am »
I'm not a Discord user, but by my understanding it's ephemeral? Isn't that a problem for conversations people might want to refer back to years later?
If you had posted this on discord, and I'd been around, I would have replied immediately. If I hadn't been around, I wouldn't have replied at all. Given that it's a forum post, I saw it, didn't feel like putting in the effort at the time, and here I am replying to it the next day.

So to me it seems like, in terms of the flow of conversation, a post on discord is more ephemeral. In terms of storage, they're just as stored and awkward to search.

Like many forum sites, this one started as a front page of articles you could reply to with comments. Forums are a better version of that and took over. The current front page would be well served by generating a forum discussion thread for each article, say in the articles forum. Anyway the forums are a good version of article replies, but discord works fine for that too.

Discord is better for chatting, which turns out to be a lot of what people want to do - less-thought-out conversations that occur in real-time. Forum games, it depends, discord or forums could be better. If you want to re-read pages of mafia discussions, okay, forums, but I have to think people are playing mafia on discord right now and loving it. Things like tournament reports are currently handled by youtube, with some discussion happening on discord. Discussing strategy works fine on discord.

Discord has, by convention, a lower barrier to entry on posting. For some people it's the same - hey it's just a convention. But for many, a post is more intimidating, suggests that more thought be put into it. Now maybe you want to be reading stuff that more thought went into. I personally think the lower barrier to entry is way better. It encourages posting, meaning it's more likely that there's actually something to read.

So, I recommend joining the discord. I don't think discord is just killing forums - note that a zillion sites still have articles with comment sections. But for sure a lot of our traffic has shifted there.

Third, the card says you should take all cards not in the kingdom, and then Donald says you should do whatever you like best or what is practical. All cards not in the kingdom is 250+; 60 is just a reasonable approximation of that (I don't think 60 or 250 would matter for BMs strength) while at 20 it was significantly weaker then intended.
The original Black Market text said to use one of each unused card. The current text though just says "Make a Black Market deck out of different unused Kingdom cards." So anything is fair game. 60 is good though.

When the card had the original text, I never actually made it every card; I would use one not-being-used expansion as the Black Market deck. I only have 10 copies of each card, using one regular copy as the randomizer, so this approach took no setup.

I don't care about statistical analysis and I think it's mostly useless for Dominion. I also didn't really put in that many hot takes, I tried to keep it to a minimum, opting for trying to say something new about each card whenever I could.
There is useful statistical analysis for Dominion, and I don't mind a line of stats, or interesting stats, but I prefer e.g. "this is underrated because it's new" to e.g. "this would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking." "This would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking" is unreadable; it's something to desperately try to skim past to find any actual sentences.

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Artifact Origin cards as a card type
« on: February 14, 2019, 02:32:55 pm »
When it is used for action, treasure, night, victory, and curse, it means one thing, while when it is used for for duration, reserve, and reaction it is a different thing (color to help it stand out), while it means yet another different thing when used by all the other not-often-used types. I just would have liked to seen the "primary types" get something distinct from all the "secondary types". Durations and Reactions could still have a different color under that system.

If there were "primary" and "secondary" types, Reaction would be a primary type.

Why? The Wiki doesn't list it that way. Reaction is a type so that it can get the color, so it can remind you to pay attention to it when you aren't playing it. It doesn't have rules associated with it about what it can do or when.
Well. If I were changing the game to have primary and secondary types, maybe I would also get to change Reactions to be cards you could play in a certain situation (putting them into play rather than just revealing them). Then they would be primary.

Rules Questions / Re: Capitalism + Death Cart
« on: February 14, 2019, 12:08:15 am »
MY wife and I encountered this combo tonight. It was our first time with Capitalism in play. We ran into a situation. Death Cart is +5 coins, but you have to trash a card. Capitalism turns +$ cards into Treasures.

To get the +$ from the now-Treasure, do you have to meet the rest of the requirements on the card? That is, to use Death Cart as a Treasure, do you have to trash an Action or it? We played without requiring the trashing - made for a quick game! Every time the Death Cart came up you had 5 coins.
Being a Treasure doesn't change anything about Death Cart, except that things that check for treasures see it, and you can play it when you can play Treasures e.g. in your Buy phase. When you play Death Cart in your Buy phase, you still follow all of the instructions on it, and either trash it or an Action card from your hand.

Rules Questions / Re: Inheritance and Capitalism (and Courtier)
« on: February 12, 2019, 07:43:36 pm »
A few questions surrounding the interaction between these two card shaped things (and Courtier as an afterthought).

1. If you buy capitalism, and then inherit a card which was affected, I assume Estates gain the Treasure type as well. This one is not as much of a question, but I still want to make sure.
2. If you inherit a card which originally does not have the Treasure type, but then buy capitalism so that it gains the Treasure type, do your Estates gain the Treasure type? They don't have a +coin amount in the text, but when Inheritance says that your Estates gain the types of that card, I'm not sure whether that is Inheritance doing that or the token. If it's Inheritance, I think it wouldn't gain the additional Treasure type, but if it's the token, I think it would.
3. If you buy Capitalism, then inherit Caravan Guard, are your Estates now Action-Treasure-Victory-Duration-Reactions? How does this new five-type card interact with Courtier? Do you just get the four bonuses? Basically, which word is more important: "for each type it has" or "the choices must be different"? I think there are a couple other cards which can give Estates five types, but they require cost reduction, so I chose Caravan Guard.
If you Inherit Militia and buy Capitalism, in either order, your Estates will be Treasures.

Yes nothing stops your Caravan Guards from having five types. Courtier gives a max of four bonuses.

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Renaissance Cards: Lackeys
« on: February 08, 2019, 01:52:06 pm »
Experiment had to live with being compared to Expedition.
Out of interest, was Experiment ever tried at $2? (I'm guessing Expedition wasn't, because it would clearly suck to watch someone else get the 2/5 split.)
There were a bunch of Experiments, but no not a $2.

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Renaissance Cards: Lackeys
« on: February 08, 2019, 01:51:44 pm »
Spices is super better than Gold almost every time.
And of course has to be, since Gold is in every game.

And also because Gold sucks.
That's what comes of lots of cards having to be better than it.

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Renaissance Cards: Lackeys
« on: February 08, 2019, 12:31:39 pm »
Assuming Donald X. knows what he's doing, the MEH and the CON outweigh the PRO enough to merit the $1 discount?
Remember that it's not like "this effect is worth $1, this other one $3, add up the effects, this card should cost $4." The differences between $2's and $4's come down to openings, +Buys, and satisfying player expectations when comparing cards (and rarely something else, e.g. is Remodel better or worse at $3).

Experiment had to live with being compared to Expedition. Lackeys is clearly not strictly better/worse than them though, so that's not an issue. It felt like a $2, given Moat and Faithful Hound; it worked fine at $2, people did not quit in disgust at 5/2 Lackeys openings or some such. It seemed fine to buy them up with +Buys.

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Renaissance Cards: Lackeys
« on: February 08, 2019, 12:25:18 pm »
Spices is super better than Gold almost every time.
And of course has to be, since Gold is in every game.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: February 08, 2019, 12:24:01 pm »
I picked up Renaissance this week week and I loved it! I've always been a fan of the simpler sets, my favorite being Seaside and my wife's being the Base set, so getting a new expansion somewhere around that complexity has been fun for us. You said in the secret history that expansions have gotten too complex and that this one was made intentionally simple. Where do you think future expansions will fall on the complexity scale?
They will try to be as simple as Renaissance, but I don't know how well I'll do there. I'll have to put in the work to know for sure though.

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Artifact Origin cards as a card type
« on: February 08, 2019, 12:19:16 pm »
In my opinion, Dominion actually has far too many types. I think there should be only Action, Treasure, Night, Victory. And Curse, I suppose, although rules-wise that would have worked fine as a Victory type instead.
I feel the opposite! Types let you refer to the types. This both lets you deal with problems, and lets you make cards that work with a category in the simplest way. The cost is just a word on that bottom bar; it does not feel high. A good example is, multiple cards would have liked to exempt Throne Rooms or one-shots. This would be trivial if they had types. It's essentially impossible given that they don't.

The ability of players to refer to the group is also nice. It's nice in the rulebooks too, even when there aren't special rules.

Of all existing types, conceivably I could have done without Gathering (living with those interactions). The others all feel like they're pulling their weight.

All the other types are fundamentally different from those 4 or 5. Those ones are really needed; they tell you what you can do with the card and when (when you can play it; or if you can play it). Things like attack could have been a keyword instead; this was dicussed somewhere else recently.

Duration doesn't have any meaningful rules associated with it; all cards are cleaned up on that last turn in which they do something. It just so happens that for regular actions, that's the same turn they were played. It's not clear from the rulebooks if Reaction actually has special rules. For both of those, I can see how the color is helpful, though. Although Temporum did fine with having "until-next-turn" cards just stay out without any special type.

I've said before that I'm against Reserve being a type. It's not even clear what that type means. Not that it can be called (Distant Lands). Not that it uses the Tavern Mat (Miser/Copper). The color doesn't seem particularly meaningful; because you know that stuff on your Tavern Mat is stuff to pay attention to at special times (except when Copper ends up there. Or Distant Lands).
"Attack" could be a word in the middle of card text, and that does have some benefits; I don't think anything else can benefit from that approach. Mid-text Attack is handling two things: attacks that are optional, and attacks timed at other than when playing a card (e.g. Ill-Gotten Gains). Arguably I shouldn't have done optional attacks - they're political (yes you can draw two terminals and choose to play the attack or not, but getting rid of some of the politics is still a positive). I don't know how much trouble "let you Moat Ill-Gotten Gains" is worth.

Duration was not originally a type, and Greed also has those cards without a special type. But there is in fact a lot of value to the color there, ditto for Reactions. Reactions originally had rules associated with them, and that version was better (they could be played at a special time).

Reserve cards put themselves on your Tavern mat. It seemed helpful at the time and I mean no regrets.

Dominion: Renaissance Previews / Re: Artifact Origin cards as a card type
« on: February 08, 2019, 12:03:34 pm »
As I was re-organizing my cards and noticed that the 'origin' cards for the Artifacts did not have their own 'card type'.  I am not intending to criticize the introduction of this new concept, but the other non-card type cards (at least in Renaissance have some sort of 'origin' card.  Doom > Hex, Fate > Boon.  Why did the Artifacts 'origin' card not have their own type? Maybe 'Reward' or 'Trophy'.  I doubt it was an 'oversight' by design.
Types are used in Dominion either to have rules tied to them, or because making the cards a different color has value.

Those cases did not come up here; so, no new type.
Strictly speaking, Gathering fulfils neither of these requirements; the way I understood it, those cards have a type just so that other cards can refer to them.
The rules on cards are also rules, but sure, we can add, having card text able to refer to the type. That is exactly what Gathering is there for.

You could also argue for "letting players refer to the group of cards by the type." This is handy although it's never been enough on its own to create a type.

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