1
Innovation Articles / Re: Strategy video!
« on: August 12, 2015, 10:56:34 pm »
With face must +1
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2
Innovation Articles / Analysis - What Innovation veterans are really about
« on: August 06, 2015, 03:01:10 pm »
No skills, tricks or fine mechanics is in this article. It is rather personal too.
So what kinds of general disciplines usually within a veteran?
1. Short Game - Sprint for objectives after objectives and lock down the victory
Typical gameplay is like a 6-0 achievement win in base set which they will score shifty and achieve as long as they can. Better short game are usually about how effective you can reduce the action needed while keeping yourself ahead. Generally you dont overscore by much with this kind of gameplay.
2. Long Game - Setup for a huge board/age lead and win the game with overwhelming advantage
No it is not only about spamming industrialization. It is actually more about how you forecast the flow of the game and be ahead on the rhythm. Forecasting cards helps a lot since it is a straight way of investing the future, but other technique applies too. Long game skills is a lot deeper since it is more on strategy and prediction over fine mechanics.
3. Small Game - Race for every ground with the finest mechanics
You may say short game gameplay relies a lot on your small game but small game is not only about that. It is about how you fight for an objective with your opponent. A gameplay example recons small game but not short game is like both sides at 5-5 on achievement with base only and the only achievement left is on age 9. While both sides are on age 8 with enough points, how do you get to achieve age9 first over your opponent.
4. Big Game - How to get your board snowballing
Now industrialization is one of the way to do it, but it is not the only one nor the quickest one(it may be the most fierce though). Get your board going early on and ahead of your opponent then banish them from dogma without sharing while they can never share yours.
5. Control - To keep your opponent away from winning
As one of the player which discipline in control this is my definition of what control is about. It is not only about disrupting your opponent nor destroying their board. It is always about keeping them away from winning, and, if you are so sure that giving them the next 3-4 achievements wont allow them to win, it is actually better to promote them to go that way so they are having their efforts under your gameplan, that is the real thing about controlling.
Apart from this there are skills, tricks, and the most important one the fine mechanics of how you actually play the game. Some of the higher level tricks like prediction, gambling, deception, illusion, board building/stacking, etc.
And there is one more thing: Our read.
It is like re-assessing the situation on a snooker table. Unlike some other board games, there are times that innovation can be highly unpredictable and you will have to rely on your read on the current situation and react accordingly. Usually the most relevant cases are to alert if a problem is already coming (say your opponent is setting up for something or even if they are looking for a card) and you will have to decide if you will stick to your original plan or not.
Most games are about a mixture of gameplays though but there are tendencies. Say kasaski favors big game(although his short game mechanics is really good last time which im quite shocked), while im more about small game and control. We may go for the other way though.
It is sad that a lot of veterans are no longer regularly here.
So what kinds of general disciplines usually within a veteran?
1. Short Game - Sprint for objectives after objectives and lock down the victory
Typical gameplay is like a 6-0 achievement win in base set which they will score shifty and achieve as long as they can. Better short game are usually about how effective you can reduce the action needed while keeping yourself ahead. Generally you dont overscore by much with this kind of gameplay.
2. Long Game - Setup for a huge board/age lead and win the game with overwhelming advantage
No it is not only about spamming industrialization. It is actually more about how you forecast the flow of the game and be ahead on the rhythm. Forecasting cards helps a lot since it is a straight way of investing the future, but other technique applies too. Long game skills is a lot deeper since it is more on strategy and prediction over fine mechanics.
3. Small Game - Race for every ground with the finest mechanics
You may say short game gameplay relies a lot on your small game but small game is not only about that. It is about how you fight for an objective with your opponent. A gameplay example recons small game but not short game is like both sides at 5-5 on achievement with base only and the only achievement left is on age 9. While both sides are on age 8 with enough points, how do you get to achieve age9 first over your opponent.
4. Big Game - How to get your board snowballing
Now industrialization is one of the way to do it, but it is not the only one nor the quickest one(it may be the most fierce though). Get your board going early on and ahead of your opponent then banish them from dogma without sharing while they can never share yours.
5. Control - To keep your opponent away from winning
As one of the player which discipline in control this is my definition of what control is about. It is not only about disrupting your opponent nor destroying their board. It is always about keeping them away from winning, and, if you are so sure that giving them the next 3-4 achievements wont allow them to win, it is actually better to promote them to go that way so they are having their efforts under your gameplan, that is the real thing about controlling.
Apart from this there are skills, tricks, and the most important one the fine mechanics of how you actually play the game. Some of the higher level tricks like prediction, gambling, deception, illusion, board building/stacking, etc.
And there is one more thing: Our read.
It is like re-assessing the situation on a snooker table. Unlike some other board games, there are times that innovation can be highly unpredictable and you will have to rely on your read on the current situation and react accordingly. Usually the most relevant cases are to alert if a problem is already coming (say your opponent is setting up for something or even if they are looking for a card) and you will have to decide if you will stick to your original plan or not.
Most games are about a mixture of gameplays though but there are tendencies. Say kasaski favors big game(although his short game mechanics is really good last time which im quite shocked), while im more about small game and control. We may go for the other way though.
It is sad that a lot of veterans are no longer regularly here.
3
Innovation General Discussion / Re: 90 Players left on the leaderboard.
« on: August 06, 2015, 02:05:26 pm »BitTorrent are you playing by the name firef2y? That would explain why that person slaughtered me so bad.
Well yes that person is me.
My mechanics are at 80% now but still make crazy mistakes, usually at counting icons for a meld->dogma. I blow up some games so bad that say when you see me shares Machinery and wasted actions or so. Things that really wont happen on real life games. My gameplay on the site is never at 100% though, especially if you consider how fast I am playing this. (Dont worry there is only one player I actually blacklisted due to slow playing so far) Some of my 'mistakes' are hard to realize though since my plays are quite reckless anyway.
And further about how hard Almanac defies gravity: 3 more issues on this card
a. It is extremely hard to remove it from your opponent. There are no draw and meld effects on leaves for at least the first few ages of the game, (Vaccine on age6, Ice Cream on age7, but all these are demands) so it is impossible to share some leave effect to cover it up. Compass do rob it but the circumstances are really harsh, say the Almanac player can always have some yellow cards with leaves(a bunch of them) and hand it instead, while in the same process they can take away some of your crown heavy cards (Optics, Flute/City States, etc) and stop this next demand. Even they dont you are still losing cards in the process in-order to gain some leave cards which are irreverent to the situation. Road Building cant deal with it. Engineering cant deal with it. Think of Machinery and Fermenting (F&R) the game-ending potential is great but there are a lot of parts that you have to handle.
b. This card benefit more on a small and inert board, instead of promoting a big board to protect your need. A lot of times an Almanac winning board is like 4-5 leaves, 1-2 castles and nothing else. This defies the definition of gravity itself where big board players should be able to demand your weaker opponent. With Almanac board it is more like you are demanding your big board opponent to come up with something since they cannot share a thing to you. Furthermore, your score and Almanac board is protected even more with the inert mechanics of the card itself, since there are nearly no way someone can affect your forecast (GPS yes forget it) and to rob high scores are going to be uneasy at early stages. Maybe you can get one with Medicine and meld it with Translation for a jump against an Almanac player but that do not stop them from working on it.
c. Not only the card's mechanics are inert from your opponent, it nearly stalls the game too. Since you wont even touch the age3 deck with Almanac spam, your opponent will have to drive though the whole age3 in-order to move up and try to stop you, while you are scoring high and, even if you cant end the game on time, by the time your opponent gets though age3 you will have a huge amount of forecast cards at age4 and you can take a free ride without giving a fxxx.
All of these ridiculous madness on one age3 card. How worse can that be.
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Innovation Game Reports / Re: SPACEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
« on: August 05, 2015, 09:34:26 am »It's hard to tell the board situation from the list of recent moves, but you apparently had loads of bulbs (18 or more, another question: you had 29 at the end, shouldn't that have you drawn more cards?); how many did ksasaki2 have, with his red pile just skyscraped? You definitely lucked out drawing A.I. as your first [10] draw but how many shots at A.I. would ksasaki2 have had? Sharing A.I. seems a bit of a crapshot to me at first sight; if he hadn't won on his turn he had known you had Suburbia in hand which you could then have used to finish him off.Alright, this game is worth a few more explanation I guess:
1. The point when he share Radio Telescope to me, I have 15 bulbs while he have 8.
Now where are the heck of the 29 bulbs from?
This is due to the karma effects on Von Neumann which gives me 2 bulbs for each hand. The blue pile on kasaski does have an effect of draw a 2(Ruler) on a left splay. I draw a card (Canal Building) which increase my amount of bulb to 17. With 17 bulbs im given 8 cards from the effect on Radio Telescope which im given 1 age 10 card, that is the AI who gives me the win (If you meld AI with the effect on Radio Telescope you win). In this exact point where my cards drawn are not returned yet they do count as 2 bulbs each from that karma effect but those are supposed to be returned immediately, which explains the 29 bulb thing.
Im not sure if kasaski expect me to have a 10 drawn too since he is not going to have 1.
2. The shot on AI for kasaski is 0. Im going to return those cards first before he start drawing 4 age 9 cards. I do understand though since he is on a rather tough situation and going for free draws and immediate draw and meld effects to put this game back. Possibly if a card which allows him to end the game right there and win the game on score. Maybe a forecast on Chemistry(nah I checked that card is on my side) and hope for me to meld a 10 can do that, or something like wristwatch, though it ended up like this.
3. kasaski tried every shot on overtaking the bulb lead over the last 3-5 turns but I kept destroying his plans with the left-splaying effect on kobukson and his mega-mega-mega blue pile is being splayed left by me all day long. I think I can be in deep trouble if that thing is splayed up. He tried to splay some of his rich piles to right quite a few times already but you see all his piles are to the left side in the end of the game.
4. Suburbia wont win the game for me since I dont really have much hand(those are meant to be returned after I meld one of the cards). If I must choose one except AI I may go for Collaboration or Composites and leave him some clock cards. With 3 clocks at most he is likely to share that effect to me if he goes for a meld and dogma approach (I do think he will go for the figure card instead). Higher chance on Collaboration for me since I dont want him to get that either. Genetics is not a bad idea too with Von Neumann + Empi but cant be too sure if he draws Che Guevara. Certainly dont want trouble like that.
5. There are multiple instances of careless plays by me on this one but it seems that all those careless plays turned into reckless acts which produced a win for me. eg sharing Machinery on turn 9 (who the heck would share that thing obviously I counted the icon wrong) and I choose the wrong card to draw on John Harrison on turn 10. It did path the way to victory somehow.
6. With a deeper read I think I will go for Collaboration at that point(if not AI of course) since a war decree is likely if he cant accomplish anything on that share of Radio Telescope. Since my board has 3 age 8 cards it is likely to hurt me but with Collaboration there I can say there is a reasonable chance to win unless he opts to remove that (only age 9 card) and leaves Von Neumann + Empi entirely open for me, which I can know what age 9 card is left on the age pile too. I cant say im 100% sure about this though and that Satellites card on my hand always solves as the last resort.
5
Innovation Game Reports / SPACEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
« on: August 03, 2015, 07:03:53 pm »
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201508/03/game-20150803-152540-97da34ae.html
Read carefully, that Radio telescope is on kasaski's side.
Ended up 2-3 with him today. This one is the highlight though
Read carefully, that Radio telescope is on kasaski's side.
Ended up 2-3 with him today. This one is the highlight though
6
Innovation General Discussion / 90 Players left on the leaderboard.
« on: August 01, 2015, 07:50:13 am »
Story: One day when im really bored I decide to have a look on this site again after eons have passed. One name caught my attention: 'kasaski2'. I really liked that because he realized a way to both having a new yahooID and bringing the maximum level of irony to the table. So I decided to do the same.
Don't make me wrong I still play sometimes with my friends(The HK-crews including marco, JimKam and others). It is not the same thing though playing 2v2 games with them are way more reckless and troll, which maybe one of the reason why im quite reckless while playing in isotropic too.
So I decide to come back and play a few games. I dont really sure if most of my opponents enjoyed that though.
But then when I check the leaderboard, only 90 players left. I still recall the days where the leaderboard consists of over 1000 players while there are thousand of games going on everyday, but those are the past.
And what is wrong with innovation?
Nothing big, really.
Apart from some particular buggy cards which I will be talking about in the bottom line, the major hindrance of developing a healthy community of players is that it is hard to show and teach this game. I dont think the learning curve of innovation is that steep as there are lots of games with way tougher learning curve(personally, Ti3 and others). I can even say that the learning curve of this game is not as steep as dominion. To have a shot against veterans in dominion one must have a lot of background knowledge on every mechanic around dominion and play within that line, while in innovation there is always some 10-30% of chance you can just beat your opponent via surplus amount of luck with limited amount of skills(Almanac spam, etc).
But to display and teach innovation in reality or network is another story. It is very hard for newcomers to imagine what they are actually doing since there are no clear concept of the game itself. Buying cards for dominion, Running a farm on Agricola, Building a space reign on Ti3, etc. Even more conceptual games have their own shape, like wealth of nations or even nuggets. Innovation though is a game of concept itself which is so hard to describe or display. Are you a scientist or alchemist or space being or something that have to fight between each other with ideas and thoughts? Or a planeswalker like MTG? Even though I will try to descripe what we are doing here with newbies, it is still hard for them to catch-up since things are a lot more blurry in the game. Most of them will just give-up.
Personally I have taught less than 5 players in real life from sketch and among them, Hideoshi make his way to the top on the leaderboard. Back when isotropic is not set, I simply play like 5 or 10 games with him every time we met without reason and perhaps that kind of extensive plays with emptiness is the only way to 'grow up' an innovation veteran. I guess it is the same for dominion or other games but the process is just so empty that many will leave.
I dont know if that is the only weakness of this game but personally I dont think it has that much to do with the game complications. There are games which are way tougher to learn and way more annoying cramped with calculations. To me, Innovation is not one of them.
Bottom line:
Please put a patch on Watermill, Almanac and Industrialization, in particular for echoes gameplay. Watermill and Almanac have nothing wrong or broken to do in the first release of echo expansion, as we have to mix a number of echo cards and base cards together to form an age deck for each age, so Almanac/Watermill spamming is not viable at most cases since you can end up drawing a base card instead of always hitting an echo one.
But then there it comes the echo drawing rule and seperation of decks. 'Blue Dyeing' becomes feasible and you can keep spamming Almanac and end the game alone. I have around 10% of games ruined by Almanac spam(including those spammed by me) and there is no reason to keep granting an age 3 card the possibility of ending the game without interruption. Math can be interrupted by board robbing cards or others but this little leaf simply denial gravity. Similar case for Watermill, although in lesser extent.
Industrialization though is rather a victim of 'blue dyeing'. Originally the card will ramp though the age deck so fast that things can backfire and have to proceed in caution. Instead, it now gives you a huge board without even progressing the age deck in some cases, and when it starts eating up ages, your board is already so huge that you can overrun your opponents with icons alone.
My suggestion:
Almanac: dont give the +1 age with that dogma anymore. You still score, still ramp though echo cards and still hit a higher age occasionally but at least you cannot end the game alone with that card most of the time.
Watermill: when you finally stopped by hitting a non-echo card, change that so you have to tuck that card too. The result is you cant use that as a free age-jumping perform without things like empty colors or self board-removal stuff(actually it is nice this way since they do introduce cards like scissior which allows you to do that).
Industrialization: change to:"(fac)draw and tuck a 6. (fac)draw and tuck a 6 for every 4 factory icons on your board. (fac) splay...." Seriously I cant think of a real way to stop Industrialization spam as this card is meant for spamming at the beginning. My idea is, if the speed is a bit slower it should allow your opponent to react for 1 or 2 more turns. Currently It is like if I got industrialization and 6 factory icons on one red splay then your turns are numbered, and I will come to win like 90% of the time. To get 8 factories for the original intended ramming speed though would require a lot more factories from off-colors unless you got a super factory red pile (Coal+Machinery+Industrialization on top).
Well it is only my personal thoughts about the game and it maybe already suggested by others elsewhere. In the very bottom line, please at least fix Almanac. This is the most evil thing which still hurts my heart, as numerous games are ruined in Innovation, my favorite game.
Don't make me wrong I still play sometimes with my friends(The HK-crews including marco, JimKam and others). It is not the same thing though playing 2v2 games with them are way more reckless and troll, which maybe one of the reason why im quite reckless while playing in isotropic too.
So I decide to come back and play a few games. I dont really sure if most of my opponents enjoyed that though.
But then when I check the leaderboard, only 90 players left. I still recall the days where the leaderboard consists of over 1000 players while there are thousand of games going on everyday, but those are the past.
And what is wrong with innovation?
Nothing big, really.
Apart from some particular buggy cards which I will be talking about in the bottom line, the major hindrance of developing a healthy community of players is that it is hard to show and teach this game. I dont think the learning curve of innovation is that steep as there are lots of games with way tougher learning curve(personally, Ti3 and others). I can even say that the learning curve of this game is not as steep as dominion. To have a shot against veterans in dominion one must have a lot of background knowledge on every mechanic around dominion and play within that line, while in innovation there is always some 10-30% of chance you can just beat your opponent via surplus amount of luck with limited amount of skills(Almanac spam, etc).
But to display and teach innovation in reality or network is another story. It is very hard for newcomers to imagine what they are actually doing since there are no clear concept of the game itself. Buying cards for dominion, Running a farm on Agricola, Building a space reign on Ti3, etc. Even more conceptual games have their own shape, like wealth of nations or even nuggets. Innovation though is a game of concept itself which is so hard to describe or display. Are you a scientist or alchemist or space being or something that have to fight between each other with ideas and thoughts? Or a planeswalker like MTG? Even though I will try to descripe what we are doing here with newbies, it is still hard for them to catch-up since things are a lot more blurry in the game. Most of them will just give-up.
Personally I have taught less than 5 players in real life from sketch and among them, Hideoshi make his way to the top on the leaderboard. Back when isotropic is not set, I simply play like 5 or 10 games with him every time we met without reason and perhaps that kind of extensive plays with emptiness is the only way to 'grow up' an innovation veteran. I guess it is the same for dominion or other games but the process is just so empty that many will leave.
I dont know if that is the only weakness of this game but personally I dont think it has that much to do with the game complications. There are games which are way tougher to learn and way more annoying cramped with calculations. To me, Innovation is not one of them.
Bottom line:
Please put a patch on Watermill, Almanac and Industrialization, in particular for echoes gameplay. Watermill and Almanac have nothing wrong or broken to do in the first release of echo expansion, as we have to mix a number of echo cards and base cards together to form an age deck for each age, so Almanac/Watermill spamming is not viable at most cases since you can end up drawing a base card instead of always hitting an echo one.
But then there it comes the echo drawing rule and seperation of decks. 'Blue Dyeing' becomes feasible and you can keep spamming Almanac and end the game alone. I have around 10% of games ruined by Almanac spam(including those spammed by me) and there is no reason to keep granting an age 3 card the possibility of ending the game without interruption. Math can be interrupted by board robbing cards or others but this little leaf simply denial gravity. Similar case for Watermill, although in lesser extent.
Industrialization though is rather a victim of 'blue dyeing'. Originally the card will ramp though the age deck so fast that things can backfire and have to proceed in caution. Instead, it now gives you a huge board without even progressing the age deck in some cases, and when it starts eating up ages, your board is already so huge that you can overrun your opponents with icons alone.
My suggestion:
Almanac: dont give the +1 age with that dogma anymore. You still score, still ramp though echo cards and still hit a higher age occasionally but at least you cannot end the game alone with that card most of the time.
Watermill: when you finally stopped by hitting a non-echo card, change that so you have to tuck that card too. The result is you cant use that as a free age-jumping perform without things like empty colors or self board-removal stuff(actually it is nice this way since they do introduce cards like scissior which allows you to do that).
Industrialization: change to:"(fac)draw and tuck a 6. (fac)draw and tuck a 6 for every 4 factory icons on your board. (fac) splay...." Seriously I cant think of a real way to stop Industrialization spam as this card is meant for spamming at the beginning. My idea is, if the speed is a bit slower it should allow your opponent to react for 1 or 2 more turns. Currently It is like if I got industrialization and 6 factory icons on one red splay then your turns are numbered, and I will come to win like 90% of the time. To get 8 factories for the original intended ramming speed though would require a lot more factories from off-colors unless you got a super factory red pile (Coal+Machinery+Industrialization on top).
Well it is only my personal thoughts about the game and it maybe already suggested by others elsewhere. In the very bottom line, please at least fix Almanac. This is the most evil thing which still hurts my heart, as numerous games are ruined in Innovation, my favorite game.
7
Innovation General Discussion / Initial thoughts about da new Cities
« on: May 16, 2014, 05:17:32 pm »
Initial thoughs about the cities(NON-AGGRESSIVE version):
1. The cities mechanics is independent of your dogma, of course there are endorse action but think about it twice, you DO NOT need endorse to execute the same dogma(just activate that card will do). Though the endorse action can make something fancy happen but this is what it supposed to do, otherwise an endorse action is not necessary;
2. The cities mechanics is now highly centered to the meld action and your drawing. Since drawing do not really involve any skills(its all about probability...or luck), the only mechanics it alters is about melding a card from your hand;
3. The cities version is not liked by me as it doesn't really have anything to do with my dogma. Innovation the game should be centered by dogma instead of melding a card, where you can simply meld a card to get an achievement(Splay left, right or top or a flag simply because you got the right city card on time). I would rather favor the aggressive version where cities can be attacked by those attack cards, though the mechanics of that thing is extremely annoying and hard to master, it is possible to renovate and improve it;
4. Another issue of these cities thing is that there are simply no drawbacks or upkeeps or liabilities or whatsoever. Melding a city AT LEAST gives you icons of a full card(3 icons on a card), meld benefits which you will get immediately and no loss afterwards. The game mechanics becomes shifted towards drawing the appropriate card instead of setting up some sort of score drive/dogma chain/board setup as you can keep moving ages and getting cities card if you can get the splay cards and plus cards on good timing which simply nothing can stops (cards like Lisboa and New York simply destroy the original game - moving from age 4 to age 5/age 6 to age 7 is not that easy since there is a lack of develop cards in these ages). IF someone moves to age 4 quickly, got Lisboa, get a pair of age 5 cards which are usually potent, you have simply nothing to stop this from happening EXCEPT hand robbing cards(Archery, Machinery). If the current mechanics must stand there must be something like cost or upkeep being posted on these cities thing;
5. In another view is that when you compare cities to figures, it simply outdo figures completely with generally more icons, less risk of failure(some figure may actually backfoot your plan while cities wont really fail in most of the time), and no cost or upkeep(figure got the procedure of fading). They both enhance your dogma by some sort of ways;
Things like "need to return a card of the same value in-order to meld the city" may slow it a bit but I still prefer to get the AGGRESSIVE version of cities back, though that version is plagued with issues too.
1. The cities mechanics is independent of your dogma, of course there are endorse action but think about it twice, you DO NOT need endorse to execute the same dogma(just activate that card will do). Though the endorse action can make something fancy happen but this is what it supposed to do, otherwise an endorse action is not necessary;
2. The cities mechanics is now highly centered to the meld action and your drawing. Since drawing do not really involve any skills(its all about probability...or luck), the only mechanics it alters is about melding a card from your hand;
3. The cities version is not liked by me as it doesn't really have anything to do with my dogma. Innovation the game should be centered by dogma instead of melding a card, where you can simply meld a card to get an achievement(Splay left, right or top or a flag simply because you got the right city card on time). I would rather favor the aggressive version where cities can be attacked by those attack cards, though the mechanics of that thing is extremely annoying and hard to master, it is possible to renovate and improve it;
4. Another issue of these cities thing is that there are simply no drawbacks or upkeeps or liabilities or whatsoever. Melding a city AT LEAST gives you icons of a full card(3 icons on a card), meld benefits which you will get immediately and no loss afterwards. The game mechanics becomes shifted towards drawing the appropriate card instead of setting up some sort of score drive/dogma chain/board setup as you can keep moving ages and getting cities card if you can get the splay cards and plus cards on good timing which simply nothing can stops (cards like Lisboa and New York simply destroy the original game - moving from age 4 to age 5/age 6 to age 7 is not that easy since there is a lack of develop cards in these ages). IF someone moves to age 4 quickly, got Lisboa, get a pair of age 5 cards which are usually potent, you have simply nothing to stop this from happening EXCEPT hand robbing cards(Archery, Machinery). If the current mechanics must stand there must be something like cost or upkeep being posted on these cities thing;
5. In another view is that when you compare cities to figures, it simply outdo figures completely with generally more icons, less risk of failure(some figure may actually backfoot your plan while cities wont really fail in most of the time), and no cost or upkeep(figure got the procedure of fading). They both enhance your dogma by some sort of ways;
Things like "need to return a card of the same value in-order to meld the city" may slow it a bit but I still prefer to get the AGGRESSIVE version of cities back, though that version is plagued with issues too.
8
Innovation General Discussion / Wanna know if any veterans from Taiwan
« on: May 14, 2014, 02:46:18 pm »
Since I am having a trip to Taiwan soon, I would see if anyone here interested to have an innovation gathering there 
Hmm...
I am Tree, if ppl here still remember LOL
Hmm...
I am Tree, if ppl here still remember LOL
9
Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O
« on: August 31, 2013, 12:41:46 pm »
From my personal feelings from the closed alpha test to the beta:
Base + Cities 2p => like a chess game, tactically a game but too much of calculations, not much room for you to be creative or innovative about plays;
Base + Echoes + Cities 2p => Advanced version of the chess game, you won't feel this as a newbie or rookie but with the veterans we have in our community (marco2012, me, etc), brain cells are dying for 'how to prevent my cities being take away' stuff;
Base + Echoes + Figures + Cities 2p => This one is more on the chaotic side, a lot room for innovative plays but the problem is: standard achievements REALLY diminished a lot in this one. Say I can intentionally give up achievement 1-6 without any stress or pressure in my mind:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/31/game-20130831-044122-adc7cbd3.html
As the value of standard achievement really diminish in the 9 achievement run, board strength becomes a necessity. Unlike the Base + Echoes + Figures which you can win without a huge board, I would say in Cities play huge board got absolute (over 80%) advantage on the control of the game. Think of the fact that you have 2+1 actions, solo dogma effects which develop your board every round (say any cities with factory + Industrialization becomes an absolute nightmare). Such kind of power plays for a couple of turns can destroy any comeback chance of your opponent, since you have 2+1 actions you can easily rob every hand from your opponent after you achieve a standard to halt your opponent from doing achievement/decree rush completely. It is just no way for you to get around this since 9 achievements are just so far away.
There got to be some sort of more complex structure within it or I am going to start my game with 'meld my 1, got my first city' 90% of the time. Real, simple and neat.
Base + Cities 2p => like a chess game, tactically a game but too much of calculations, not much room for you to be creative or innovative about plays;
Base + Echoes + Cities 2p => Advanced version of the chess game, you won't feel this as a newbie or rookie but with the veterans we have in our community (marco2012, me, etc), brain cells are dying for 'how to prevent my cities being take away' stuff;
Base + Echoes + Figures + Cities 2p => This one is more on the chaotic side, a lot room for innovative plays but the problem is: standard achievements REALLY diminished a lot in this one. Say I can intentionally give up achievement 1-6 without any stress or pressure in my mind:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/31/game-20130831-044122-adc7cbd3.html
As the value of standard achievement really diminish in the 9 achievement run, board strength becomes a necessity. Unlike the Base + Echoes + Figures which you can win without a huge board, I would say in Cities play huge board got absolute (over 80%) advantage on the control of the game. Think of the fact that you have 2+1 actions, solo dogma effects which develop your board every round (say any cities with factory + Industrialization becomes an absolute nightmare). Such kind of power plays for a couple of turns can destroy any comeback chance of your opponent, since you have 2+1 actions you can easily rob every hand from your opponent after you achieve a standard to halt your opponent from doing achievement/decree rush completely. It is just no way for you to get around this since 9 achievements are just so far away.
There got to be some sort of more complex structure within it or I am going to start my game with 'meld my 1, got my first city' 90% of the time. Real, simple and neat.
10
Innovation Game Reports / I just can't find a topic this time. Just a legendary game.
« on: August 20, 2013, 01:51:13 pm »
BrokenTree v ksasaki:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/20/game-20130820-103626-06fb2fa2.html
Early game is already full of power plays, the king grabs a dominate castle lead and got monument, while I used confucius to sneak away his Empire(Peace and War you know);
Soon Enough I try to play my old card(Standard F&R) but I am constantly looking for Suburbia since I am really aware of Darwin(as I am 2 achievements behind the king can just meld Darwin and issue any Decree he want to end the game there)
Turns out is a massive Pressure Cooker...The king reduced his bulb to force me join that stuff
So here we go the middle game, I used nearly 3 minutes to return the cards and we are playing mind games again(dunno why he cannot inspire green on Adam Smith -- possibly a bug)
Late game, the king wants to power play me out via George Stevenson -> massive achievements scandal but finally I got a useful Figure card which is, ROBERT E LEE the druid who suddenly gives me 2 more achievements. Now in-order to counteract his plan, I decided to decree a War and denial his age 7 top card since he only got 62 points and need to do a scoring before his 2nd achievement 7(I got 101 which I can achieve it twice). It turns out that the game comes down to a guess - if he succeed in his lighting rod and take away Robert then I will lose. He got 2 chances, though none of them hits me. I grab my second achievement 7 and finally escape from it.
You know, just the type of game that still thrives your heart lol
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/20/game-20130820-103626-06fb2fa2.html
Early game is already full of power plays, the king grabs a dominate castle lead and got monument, while I used confucius to sneak away his Empire(Peace and War you know);
Soon Enough I try to play my old card(Standard F&R) but I am constantly looking for Suburbia since I am really aware of Darwin(as I am 2 achievements behind the king can just meld Darwin and issue any Decree he want to end the game there)
Turns out is a massive Pressure Cooker...The king reduced his bulb to force me join that stuff
So here we go the middle game, I used nearly 3 minutes to return the cards and we are playing mind games again(dunno why he cannot inspire green on Adam Smith -- possibly a bug)
Late game, the king wants to power play me out via George Stevenson -> massive achievements scandal but finally I got a useful Figure card which is, ROBERT E LEE the druid who suddenly gives me 2 more achievements. Now in-order to counteract his plan, I decided to decree a War and denial his age 7 top card since he only got 62 points and need to do a scoring before his 2nd achievement 7(I got 101 which I can achieve it twice). It turns out that the game comes down to a guess - if he succeed in his lighting rod and take away Robert then I will lose. He got 2 chances, though none of them hits me. I grab my second achievement 7 and finally escape from it.
You know, just the type of game that still thrives your heart lol
11
Innovation Game Reports / Re: anyone tried Rhazes + flute
« on: August 15, 2013, 02:10:05 pm »
Do like Comb + Rhazes more though...Just preference problem 
Same kind of sxxx....
Same kind of sxxx....
12
Innovation Game Reports / Re: Why Beer and Engineers Don't Mix
« on: August 15, 2013, 02:08:34 pm »
Hmm... I think after the famous Lighting + Sunshu Ao debate that Reformation of tucking the same card again and again is no longer valid...
13
Innovation General Discussion / Re: So, anyone can tell me how to comprehend the special victory in FitS?
« on: August 14, 2013, 01:14:03 pm »
Shigeru Miyamoto:
The icon of that card is from the game 'The legend of Zelda';
He is a famous developer and now a directive of Nintendo, sometimes appear in press conference or open events such as E3, and of course he developed the game;
1,3,6 are the triangular number sequence who matches that icon, probably Carl really love that game lol
The icon of that card is from the game 'The legend of Zelda';
He is a famous developer and now a directive of Nintendo, sometimes appear in press conference or open events such as E3, and of course he developed the game;
1,3,6 are the triangular number sequence who matches that icon, probably Carl really love that game lol
14
Innovation Game Reports / Re: Some games with Fermenting+Reformation by the Tree
« on: August 10, 2013, 01:14:48 pm »
General Tran, we found a new way to further optimize the operation of brewery:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/10/game-20130810-095234-8c753e01.html
Tran Hung Dao: each 2 castle on your board provides 1 extra icons of each other type on your board,
left splay, massive castles, and...
22 leaves after one use of Reformation lol
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/10/game-20130810-095234-8c753e01.html
Tran Hung Dao: each 2 castle on your board provides 1 extra icons of each other type on your board,
left splay, massive castles, and...
22 leaves after one use of Reformation lol
15
Innovation Game Reports / AT&T. Your fastest 4G Network.
« on: August 07, 2013, 02:35:09 pm »
Nothing really interesting, except the last action of me:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/07/game-20130807-112241-493890b3.html
Hedy Lamarr, the one who discovered the basis of wireless network.
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/07/game-20130807-112241-493890b3.html
Hedy Lamarr, the one who discovered the basis of wireless network.
16
Innovation Game Reports / How do you play against the tyrant when he got Paper, Industrialization
« on: August 06, 2013, 10:06:24 am »
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/05/game-20130805-082111-b605d16e.html
First, call a ninja from their kingdom to take away those Papers;
Second, sneak away the Historybook with the fewest legitimate amount of color cards(turn 10, blue, 4);
Third, take away Destiny, Supremacy, Heritage and even Wealth from nowhere without help of Industrialization, even under some real bad luck with Physics;
Last but not least, go back to the tradition of score/achievement game. Figures are so useful when you can always fade them for some quick cash;
And that is how it is done. When it is done, all of the icons and score have been lost while the tyrant finally prevail.
First, call a ninja from their kingdom to take away those Papers;
Second, sneak away the Historybook with the fewest legitimate amount of color cards(turn 10, blue, 4);
Third, take away Destiny, Supremacy, Heritage and even Wealth from nowhere without help of Industrialization, even under some real bad luck with Physics;
Last but not least, go back to the tradition of score/achievement game. Figures are so useful when you can always fade them for some quick cash;
And that is how it is done. When it is done, all of the icons and score have been lost while the tyrant finally prevail.
17
Innovation General Discussion / Re: Is Metalworking a trap card?
« on: July 25, 2013, 04:06:52 pm »
Personally:
Extremely strong in base only game. Real. The most under-estimated part is that the strength of Metalworking in Age 2 is actually its prime say there are actually only ~8/14 chance that you can get an age 1 castle card for scoring but 5/10 in age 2. Think of the score gained in age 2 it is reasonably effective. Not only the scoring but think of what you can draw via Metalworking in age 2. Screening the scored cards out you would get {Currency, Calender, Math, Canal Building, Philosophy} where 2 of them are scorers which you can hinder your opponent from scoring, Math is generally strong, and Calender usually works well with Metalworking with an early score pile. The sharpness of Metalworking still stays in age 3 where you can nimbly take away Machinery which causes trouble to your large hand after Metalworking.
The greatness of Metalworking fades out a bit in base + echoes game but it is still a niche to play with especially with The Wheel and Mansory. The 12 castle style {Metalworking, The Wheel, Mansory, Mysticism} can instantly gives you both Monument and Supermacy and gives you a strong push for Construction(Empire) which is still extremely forceful.
Generally speaking, a 3 castle card in age1 is always a solid choice who can block out any Unchecked castle attempt at the beginning. With a solid effect which can turn some early achievement for you so why not.
Extremely strong in base only game. Real. The most under-estimated part is that the strength of Metalworking in Age 2 is actually its prime say there are actually only ~8/14 chance that you can get an age 1 castle card for scoring but 5/10 in age 2. Think of the score gained in age 2 it is reasonably effective. Not only the scoring but think of what you can draw via Metalworking in age 2. Screening the scored cards out you would get {Currency, Calender, Math, Canal Building, Philosophy} where 2 of them are scorers which you can hinder your opponent from scoring, Math is generally strong, and Calender usually works well with Metalworking with an early score pile. The sharpness of Metalworking still stays in age 3 where you can nimbly take away Machinery which causes trouble to your large hand after Metalworking.
The greatness of Metalworking fades out a bit in base + echoes game but it is still a niche to play with especially with The Wheel and Mansory. The 12 castle style {Metalworking, The Wheel, Mansory, Mysticism} can instantly gives you both Monument and Supermacy and gives you a strong push for Construction(Empire) which is still extremely forceful.
Generally speaking, a 3 castle card in age1 is always a solid choice who can block out any Unchecked castle attempt at the beginning. With a solid effect which can turn some early achievement for you so why not.
18
Innovation Game Reports / I told you THIS IS SCIENCE!
« on: July 25, 2013, 03:48:52 pm »
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201307/25/game-20130725-123647-f72af63c.html
Tesla is SCIENCE!
No Yuki plz no almanac no air-cond not even gunpowder just go all the way back to age 3 lol
I do think von Neumann got a bug too...dunno.
Tesla is SCIENCE!
No Yuki plz no almanac no air-cond not even gunpowder just go all the way back to age 3 lol
I do think von Neumann got a bug too...dunno.
19
Innovation Game Reports / Let's imitate ksasaki
« on: May 15, 2013, 04:46:56 am »
I seldom do this kind of super board...dunno, probably there is some slight difference between our mechanics which make us so different from each other:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201305/15/game-20130515-013859-6351b0f8.html
But then, there are times that I do it too, super board and a lot of special achievements without Industrialization
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201305/15/game-20130515-013859-6351b0f8.html
But then, there are times that I do it too, super board and a lot of special achievements without Industrialization
20
Innovation Game Reports / Re: Some games with Fermenting+Reformation by the Tree
« on: May 09, 2013, 03:44:36 pm »
Sometimes just drawing cards will get the job done:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201305/09/game-20130509-124004-bd430f7e.html
I just have so many ways to rebuild the forest on the earth, including pure drawing and doing nothing else...
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201305/09/game-20130509-124004-bd430f7e.html
I just have so many ways to rebuild the forest on the earth, including pure drawing and doing nothing else...
21
Innovation General Discussion / Re: Innovation Puzzles
« on: May 03, 2013, 03:06:06 pm »Right, since most people do understand the first one, here is the next one:
Assume I am playing a base only game with Hideyoshi, the score is tight and there is only achievement age 9 left. I don't have enough scores to achieve it but I do have Satellites which is an age9 card. I have a sole majority of clock lead so I don't have to share it to him, so I execute it.
But it turns out that I lose the game and later we find out that no-matter what I do that turn I will lose the game(in my turn or in his next turn) anyway.
So what kind of scenerio it is?
There are no 8s, 9s, or 10s left in the supply (or in your hand). When you activate Satellites you attempt to draw an 11 and lose on score.
Hmm....must tell you that this is not the correct answer because this is just too foolish to do such thing, say drawing 3 8's when there are not enough cards for me to draw anyway.
The puzzle is a bit more deeper than this since most scenario involving drawing can be concluded with 'age decks are empty'...
22
Innovation General Discussion / Re: Innovation Puzzles
« on: May 03, 2013, 01:51:23 am »
Right, since most people do understand the first one, here is the next one:
Assume I am playing a base only game with Hideyoshi, the score is tight and there is only achievement age 9 left. I don't have enough scores to achieve it but I do have Satellites which is an age9 card. I have a sole majority of clock lead so I don't have to share it to him, so I execute it.
But it turns out that I lose the game and later we find out that no-matter what I do that turn I will lose the game(in my turn or in his next turn) anyway.
So what kind of scenerio it is?
Assume I am playing a base only game with Hideyoshi, the score is tight and there is only achievement age 9 left. I don't have enough scores to achieve it but I do have Satellites which is an age9 card. I have a sole majority of clock lead so I don't have to share it to him, so I execute it.
But it turns out that I lose the game and later we find out that no-matter what I do that turn I will lose the game(in my turn or in his next turn) anyway.
So what kind of scenerio it is?
23
Innovation Game Reports / Re: Some games with Fermenting+Reformation by the Tree
« on: May 03, 2013, 01:34:55 am »
Update: got a funny game just today:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201305/02/game-20130502-215848-7d4a3923.html
Though this one is not about using F&R to win, but countering a F&R against me instead.
I intentionally dig into the echoes and aiming at several possibilities. Though I wanted Elevator most, but Parachute should get the job done too so I go with Parachute + Television and it turns out that it is I have massive hands and my opponent got some Industrial-related board. Television really helps me to make enough trouble to my opponent + develop my board a bit.
And this is one of the possible solution against a coming F&R: using some icons in the later age which your opponent cannot gain access with F&R easily. Factories and Clocks, usually.
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201305/02/game-20130502-215848-7d4a3923.html
Though this one is not about using F&R to win, but countering a F&R against me instead.
I intentionally dig into the echoes and aiming at several possibilities. Though I wanted Elevator most, but Parachute should get the job done too so I go with Parachute + Television and it turns out that it is I have massive hands and my opponent got some Industrial-related board. Television really helps me to make enough trouble to my opponent + develop my board a bit.
And this is one of the possible solution against a coming F&R: using some icons in the later age which your opponent cannot gain access with F&R easily. Factories and Clocks, usually.
24
Innovation General Discussion / Re: Innovation Puzzles
« on: May 02, 2013, 05:56:53 am »Are the answers exhaustive? Like, with red, both Metalworking and Industrialization can achieve Monument off the top of my head, and though I'm not familiar with Echoes cards, I'm almost certain that there should be more ways with red...
Some of them are easier, some of them are more tricky. Multiple answer exists in some of the case, too.
The borderline is: if you go with a draw and meld and execute effect you can only meld a card of the original color which you are working on.
25
Innovation General Discussion / Innovation Puzzles
« on: May 02, 2013, 05:09:48 am »
No I do not mean a real, physical puzzle, that is nonsense anyway
It is just the similar kind of things like the dominion puzzle thread, tricky question...sort of.
So let me starts with...
Monument
-If you would tuck 6 cards or score 6 cards in a turn
How to accomplish, with any single color, both by tucking and scoring:
Red;
Yellow;
Green;
Blue;
Purple;
All of them 2x5 = 10 methods;
hints: some of them may require the echoes set to accomplish.
It is just the similar kind of things like the dominion puzzle thread, tricky question...sort of.
So let me starts with...
Monument
-If you would tuck 6 cards or score 6 cards in a turn
How to accomplish, with any single color, both by tucking and scoring:
Red;
Yellow;
Green;
Blue;
Purple;
All of them 2x5 = 10 methods;
hints: some of them may require the echoes set to accomplish.