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Messages - Awaclus

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Mafia Game Threads / Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D3!)
« on: November 16, 2018, 01:03:04 pm »
Vote: Awaclus

Early day 2 I did a reread and concluded that he'd been very reasonable, helpful even, on day 1. More so than in NM13, when he was town. So yes, town. And I think a few people stated they found him towny.

Since then... next to nothing. Get a towny read and then no need to engage any more? Sounds like an effective scum play.

I'd like to point out that by "since then...", you mean "since Renaissance was released".

Tournaments and Events / Re: Renaissance: The Tournament
« on: November 16, 2018, 11:10:02 am »
Awaclus 3-1 Jean-Michel


We also played the full Renaissance game just for fun:


Silos + Mountain Village.

If you only use Chapel to trash Estates, then you’ll hit $5 plenty. Anyway, you can use whatever term you feel like, but it sounds like I’m not alone in assuming that “economy” actually has to do with how much stuff your deck can afford, rather than how likely it is to hit a particular number that happens to be a number that has a lot of strong cards with that cost.

You don't get the benefit of Estate trashing from Chapel until after a few reshuffles, and due to inflation, just buying Treasure would probably be better economy. Trashing an Estate before the first reshuffle with Cathedral or Plan, however, is extremely good for economy.

How much stuff your deck can afford is more in the payload territory, and irrelevant until you're actually drawing your entire deck.

Playing a Smithy allows you to have more Coppers in hand, so Smithy is economy. Playing a Village allows you to play more Smithies; thus allowing you to have more Coppers in hand.

Playing Chapel is economy like Royal Carriage is; it increases the number of coin you have on future turns.

How many times have you opened Village/Chapel and hit $5?

If this is what people mean when they say that a card provides economy; then it’s a pretty meaningless term that applies to just about every card in Dominion.

It doesn't apply to Chapel or Village. It's not a meaningless term, this is exactly the meaning that you need to consider when you're trying to maximize your chances of hitting $5 in the early game.

I really don't, and you're attributing something to my name which I never said. Other than the fact that the notion that 'draw is economy' is a misleading statement, you didn't mention mid-turn gaining or discard for benefit and I had no reason to assume that's what you meant. But even if I did, my post replied to a different post of yours, where you said that overdraw is a sign that you overtrashed, which is also a misleading statement.

"Draw is economy" is not a misleading statement, it is a true statement. Of course I didn't mean mid-turn gaining or discard for benefit because that's never relevant on turn 3 or turn 5, but nevertheless the reason why overdraw is sometimes good in the late game is the exact same reason why draw is economy in the early game.

"Overdraw is a sign that you overtrashed" is also not a misleading statement, it is a true statement. If you play a Smithy on turn 6 and it doesn't draw three cards, that means you trashed too much too fast.

I gotta admit, I kinda like Awaclus's Unified Theory of Dominion:
"Everything is economy!"
It is short, it is simple, it is involuntarily funny and it is utterly wrong.

No, only the things that help you hit $5 are economy.

At least in Renaissance heavy games (which have lots of great trashing), the first Flag has seemed pretty good in the absence of more important things to do. The first extra card draw that you get from the Flag is ALSO PROMPT, which means that you can sometimes break the symmetry in your favor by timing the Flag buy correctly — e.g. you can buy it when you know your opponent has small or nonexistent chances of hitting $4 in their current hand, or you can buy it when your extra card does something more useful than your opponent's extra card assuming they buy it on their next turn.

Awaclus never said that in this topic. Maybe one of his other posts implied it somehow, but I'm not seeing that right now. Either way, surely he doesn't need you to defend him so furiously? You sound like an overzealous groupie.

I said that draw is economy, because it puts cards into your hand which generate coins. Holunder9 said that was false, because what if you're overdrawing your deck. I said that if you're overdrawing your deck, the problem isn't that you're drawing too many cards, it's that you trashed too many cards. You said that sometimes overdraw is good if it puts cards into your hand which generate coins. You seriously don't think anything is funny here?

This is false. If you overdraw your deck adding more draw power doesn't increase Coin (or Coffers) yield.

While you are of course totally right that drawing cards make it more likely that you draw payload cards it is simply a bad way to think about the game because there is often an elementary trade-off about adding draw or payload power to a deck. Pretending that the former implies the latter is not helpful at all for deck construction and I seriously doubt that you actually think according to your "Cards=Coins" claim during playing. If the game were so simple it would be solved.

If you "overdraw" your deck, the real problem is that you have overtrashed your deck.

How does Apprentice give you economy? I thought economy referred to the ability to add new cards to your deck, generally through generating money, but possibly gainers as well? If simply card draw counts as economy, then almost every card in Dominion gives you economy in some way.

Card draw counts as economy, through generating money through putting Coppers into your hand.

Other Games / Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« on: November 14, 2018, 09:30:30 pm »
I tried D&D once. It was fine, but very disappointing compared to RuneQuest.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Spices > Gold
« on: November 14, 2018, 09:28:27 pm »
How does Grand Market help?

To eke out the copperless $6 ASAP. If they block GM, play all your coppers and buy two other useful cards. it doesn't even matter that GM was in the kingdom.


Research is great. It helps you cycle your deck very fast, it gives you economy, it gives you trashing, so it's basically everything that you want to do in the early game in a single non-terminal card. Later on you can use it to trash cards for draw.
Research doesn't give you economy, it is just a Duration Apprentice. The only really powerful trasher in this set is Recruiter.

Apprentice gives you economy, therefore Research gives you economy. It's ridiculous to say that the only powerful trasher in the set is Recruiter when the set also has the significantly-more-powerful-than-Recruiter Cathedral, and Priest and Research are definitely very powerful as well.

Research is great. It helps you cycle your deck very fast, it gives you economy, it gives you trashing, so it's basically everything that you want to do in the early game in a single non-terminal card. Later on you can use it to trash cards for draw.

Mafia Game Threads / Re: M119: Towny Mafia (D3!)
« on: November 14, 2018, 12:32:37 pm »
Vote: fang

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Spices > Gold
« on: November 14, 2018, 03:59:55 am »
Contraband had its use cases on boards with Grand Markets, alternate VP, or sometimes Colonies, especially with no other sources of +buy in the kingdom.

How does Grand Market help? Seems like a reason to ignore Contraband if anything, since you can get your +buy from that.

General Discussion / Re: Song of the day
« on: November 14, 2018, 03:49:39 am »

This is amazing. As in it actually sounds amazing.

Couldn't you just get something with Cobbler that you actually wanted and skipped the Cathedral?

You probably can't skip Cathedral.

General Discussion / Re: Maths thread.
« on: November 13, 2018, 09:19:05 pm »
I tried getting rid of the denominators and gave up after seeing the resulting mess.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Can you infinitely play nesting Black Markets?
« on: November 13, 2018, 09:16:33 pm »
If you play a Black Market while Black Market cards are revealed, is it supposed to reveal the next 3? Revealed cards are supposed to be still considered to have not moved, right? So the top 3 cards would still be the 3 that are currently revealed wouldn't they?

If it wasn't supposed to reveal the next 3, then Scrying Pool would never reveal anything beyond the first card (infinitely many times if it happens to be an Action) by the same logic.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Can you infinitely play nesting Black Markets?
« on: November 13, 2018, 03:25:16 am »
Does anybody want to try to crash ShuffleIT?  I'm interested in seeing what would happen.

I gave up after 64 nested Black Markets still working roughly correctly. The only problem was the log doing this, which it always does when you nest things too much:

The funny thing is that the Black Market deck gets emptied after 20 Black Markets, and then it gets rearranged in the opposite order in groups of 3 when you stop doing the loop.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What's the Weirdest Engine You've Seen?
« on: November 11, 2018, 10:33:51 pm »
Off the top of my head I don't remember a weirder one than this:

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Spices > Gold
« on: November 11, 2018, 01:34:07 pm »
On payoff alone, you'd only prefer Gold to Spices if you expected to draw the Gold at least 3 times in a situation where you actually were going to use the extra money.

Because of inflation, you might have to expect to draw the Gold significantly more times than that.

I think it's generally accepted at this point that Gold is one of the worst things to buy for $6. Considering how many other things give $ more efficiently, and how many card there are now that give you Gold for free, you only buy Gold if you're truly out of options.

I thought this was ehunt replying to his own thread at first.

Dominion Articles / Re: Cathedral
« on: November 11, 2018, 01:03:41 pm »
When Cathedral is in the kingdom, the game is probably going to end somewhere around turn 8-11 when players buy kingdom cards so you should plan your strategy accordingly.

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