Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Darthcaboose

Filter to certain boards:

Pages: [1]
1
More thought really needs to be put into the achievements, for sure. For one thing, they are (again) too easy to get. Achievements should be an accomplishment! They should require luck or planning or clever inspiration. I blinked when I got an achieve for using a left-splay icon. I was like, I was going to do that anyway! These are like Steam achievements, just giving you a pile of them for playing the game normally.

How about..

..an achievement if you draw three cities in a single turn
..an achievement if all of your top cards are cities
..if city B endorses city A, you can achieve city A if you meet the score requirements

..but perhaps more thought than just "interesting achievements" should be put into this. Achievements are there not to look nifty but to direct the course of the game. Previous expansions tailored achievements to the way that expansion wanted the game to work out.

..The vanilla specials was split about half between "building and expanding" (Monument, Wonder) and "tech rush" (Universe, World), along with the score/basic achievement system that rewarded balancing building (scoring) with techup.
..The echoes specials seemed to be focused on building up your stacks and splaying them, since that strategy was a bit too weak in vanilla
..The figures specials had a whole different dynamic that was integral to how figures worked
..but the cities are just more of the same?

What does the cities expansion want to do to the metagame? What corrections or improvements or changes does it want to make? The achievements should be tailored to that.

I like your ideas quite a bit! I too made some recommendations about changing up some of the achievements (see my OP post above).

2
Hello everyone,

Server just refreshed and it looks like there's 5 new special achievements to go along with Cities.

Fame: Claim this special achievement immediately if you splay a stack up due to an arrow icon.
Repute: Claim this special achievement immediately if you splay a stack right due to an arrow icon.
Legend: Claim this special achievement immediately if you splay a stack left due to an arrow icon.
Victory: Claim this special achievement immediately if you have a visible black flag.
Glory: Claim this special achievement immediately if you have a white flag that counts as an achievement.

---

Certainly will be a lot easier to keep track of compared to the other achievements in a real-life game. That said, these seem a little too... basic. I was hoping to see some more interactive ones. I sent Asmadi Games an email with the following suggestions:

Fame: Keep the same (up splay through a city up arrow)
Repute: Keep the same (right splay through a city right arrow)
Legend: When melding a city with one of the 6 icons at the top middle of the city card, claim this special achievement if you keep at least three of the drawn base cards (replacing left splay icon arrow).
Glory: Claim if you have 3 top cards as cities, all of different ages. (alternatively, maybe make it so your top card cities have between them at least 5 of the 6 icon types; which will still require at least 3 top cities).
Victory: Claim if you have 2 flags (either white or black) on your board while they are activated as achievements.

My idea is to make them a little harder to get, while still keeping the whole 'right' and 'up' splay is special (a la Wonder).


3
Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O
« on: September 04, 2013, 11:32:13 pm »
My thoughts thus far:

1. Removing the attack cards was a good decision, albeit one that sort of hurts the symmetry of all the Innovation expansions (as there'll be 5 fewer cards in this set). Ah well...

2. The simplification of the draw rules for Cities is extremely interesting and fits a nice niche that hasn't yet been exploited (melding new colors, and splaying). My only problem is the 'meld action for a new color' will only happen a few times while the splay one will happen multiple times. With the old draw rules, it seemed like both rules would come up consistently. Not saying this is a bad thing, but this asymmetric draw rule will be interesting to look at in the future (it certainly makes Clothing a little less powerful since you aren't drawing Cities when you run it).

---

I really like the 'meld a new color' rule, and the splay rule. Perhaps we can add on to the 'meld a new color' rule to also include when you Meld a card for an Age that's not already on your top board (e.g. all your cards are Age 1, you take a Meld action to put down an Age 3 card... this means you'll only have one Age 3 card on top, so you get an Age 3 city).

---

3. Endorse is a very interesting change. It shares the same tucking action as before, but the ability to dogma something twice in a row will be very, very interesting to see play out. Not sure if the added complexity of not sharing the second time is necessary, but it keeps explaining Cities to new players a lot simpler.

4. Just as before, having lots of Cities on top does very little to things you can do during your turn. With these changes, you won't be drawing as many cities as before (unless you have a way of splaying things, or have good dogmas that also splay).

5. The change to drawing base cards when you meld a city is cool. It certainly adds a lot more strategy to how you want to deal with the Cities you draw (most likely, with the benefits of drawing X cards = age, you'll want to Meld that city).


4
Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O
« on: August 27, 2013, 05:51:08 pm »
Just for the record (in case it's not clear), the card is really "Constantinople", but that doesn't fit.  I generally avoid making arbitrary changes to the games I implement but this way seemed way more amusing than some awkward abbreviation (I'm looking at you, "Rio de J.".)



Nifty!

Thanks for implementing Cities Dougz! Now my brain will burn for an eternity when I make sure I have exactly two top cards of... wait...

5
Innovation Articles / Figures in the Sand: Age 2
« on: August 20, 2013, 07:39:55 am »
Figures in the Sand: Age 2

Age 2 Figure cards are quite the step up from Age 1 Figure cards. All 5 colors contain a Figure that has the two-figure Decree Karma, so if you weren't able to snag one during the Age 1 fight, you'll probably have better luck finding one here!

Let's get to it; I'll refer you to http://innovation.boardgamestrategy.net/figures-card-list/ so you all can follow along.

Ximen Bao (Yellow):

Ximen Bao has the two-figures Decree Karma for Expansion, whose usefulness is suspect this early on in the game. If you've been diligently tucking cards through Soap, Perfume or the like, then perhaps an up-splay may be beneficial. Ximen Bao's inspire ability, much like Sunsho Ao's ability from Age 1, is still very useful for getting rid of unwanted Echoes cards in hand!

Ximen Bao's 'other' Karma effect is... Well, it's very unique to say the least. The ability to run off all of your Echo or Inspire effects in yellow is quite, quite nice. That said, a few issues:

1. As you are activating your yellow stack to gain the benefits of Ximen Bao, the Dogma symbol used will be Leaves; of which Ximen Bao only provides one. You'll need to make sure you have leaf support in other colors.
2. Ximen Bao really benefits from early splaying, as well as Echo effects on those Echoes cards with the Echo effects on the left-splay (read: Ruler, Umbrella, Bell, Flute, Chopsticks, Glassblowing, Almanac, Magnifying Glass, and Novel). Go for Expansion on a stack (usually Red or Blue) if you can reveal more effects!
3. For Figures cards, only 1 of the 15 Age 1 Figures cards feature a left-splay visible Echo effect (Imhotep), and only 3 of the 15 Age 1 Figures cards feature a left-splay visible Inspire effect (Shennong, Sneferu, and Sargon of Akkad).
4. Unless you have tons of Echo or nice Inspire effects visible, you are almost always better off running a single stack instead to benefit from the Dogma effect visible on the top of the stack as well.
5. Any 'execute its non-demand dogma effects for yourself' cards won't work well with the yellow stack, since doing so specifically excludes Echo effects (as they are not “Dogma effects”).

That said, Ximen Bao is great for snagging History later on. Might also be worth keeping him in your hand and see if your latter splays and tucking actions may yield some great combos. Just don't forget to keep your leaves up!

History Tip: Ximen Bao and Sunsho Ao are Chinese statesmen best known for also being China's early canal-building engineers; the fact that they both allow tucking of cards is a nice nod to that connection! Bonus points if you tuck “Canal Building” with either of them!

Cai Lun (Yellow):

An extremely handy dogma effect lets you catch up with splaying if you miss out in the early ages. Cai Lun's Karma effect can be very awesome if you've been using Echo effects to build up a nice Forecast pile (perhaps trying to get Destiny early). His ability to foreshadow a 3 when trying to claim an achievement is somewhat passable, but the ability to achieve cards in your forecast is quite, quite nice. If you find Cai Lun, you should do your best to find Almanac from Echoes!

Considerably more limited utility in a Base + Figures game, due to the lack of foreshadowing effects, and might be better off saving him as part of a Decree instead.

Ptolemy (Green):

An excellent Inspire effect to quickly build the board up at Age 2, even more so when your opponent is still stuck in Age 1. Issuing a Trade Decree at this Age is nice, especially if you are leading in Castles (oh, Engineering goodness!) though not as awe-inspiring as the almighty Age 4 Base cards!

The Karma effect of Ptolemy is nifty, especially in a multiplayer game, as it just gives you more options. Opponent has Mathematics on their board? Use Ptolemy to tech up! Opponent left Perfume on their board while they teched up? Now you can catch up! Did your opponent just meld Software? Umm... okay. Be mindful when your opponent has Ptolemy down; either build a resistance in symbols to your own blue card, or cover it up with something less desirable.

Bi Sheng (Green):

As the developer of moveable type printing technology, it is no surprise that Bi Sheng might be able to forecast Printing Press! Bi Sheng is a great card for when your board is missing certain colors; you can forecast a bunch of 4s and enable a non-Castle dogma effect to instantly tech yourself up. Super kudos if you combine this with Almanac to quickly 'tech up' your forecast pile!

Bi Sheng does work against claiming Destiny in Echoes games. If you are close to claiming it, either work towards finishing it with Bi Sheng's Inspire effect or Castle-based foreshadowers (like Bell, Bangle, and Horseshoes). You can also use Bi Sheng for claiming Monument with his Karma effect, if it already hasn't been claimed yet. However, tucking a bunch of 4 cards may not necessarily be the best play, especially considering how powerful some of them may be. Be sure to evaluate the board state before deciding to tuck them all!

Sun Tzu (Red):

Innovation, much like war, is a game of positioning. Sun Tzu knew this best and this card looks to gain when you would share with your opponents. The Wheel-like Inspire effect is nifty to draw up a big hand to then use with his Karma effect; building big stacks is pretty important in Echoes games, and Sun Tzu is an indirect enabler to that sort of thing.

His sharing bonus encourages players to share Dogma effects in order to meld cards as well as get Figures to do the War Decree with. Just be careful you have a way to share after drawing the first Figure that won't meld this Figure from the second share bonus!

Alexander the Great (Red):

Goodbye Age 1 and Age 2 Figures. Alexander the Great has graced the board with his 2-bonus presence. A Meld to score opponent figures followed by his Inspire effect can be a quick way to get yourself some score points if you have been falling behind. Once you're ahead, his Karma effect will allow you to essentially ignore icons and share/demand at will (one or the other, unfortunately). Alexander will eventually succumb to Gunpowder or better red cards, but do use him for strong attacks when you can (alas, one cannot have both Engineering and Alexander the Great out at the same time... would truly be madness if he worked like that!).

Be very careful of leaving him out too long in a share/demand state for too long. Being over your opponent in points means you can dogma without sharing, but means you'll be locked out of Figures. Conversely, not beating your opponent in points means your Demands will have no effect; of which some can be great ways of increasing your score/reducing your opponents score.

Confucius (Purple):

Confucius say: “Meld me with Chaturanga for Maximum Effect” thanks to his 3 bonus! Him having only 1 Leaf, as well as his echo ability to score Age 1 figures means you'll probably end up sharing the effect rather than scoring the Figure. No problem, you'll just get a Figure out of it while giving your opponent one point (maybe even netting even if your opponent had a Figure with a bonus out!).

Confucius's Karma effect is much Alexander the Great's, except with a lot more flexibility. As you can pick the icon (other than Castle), you can choose exactly whether you want something to be shared or not (and you will usually be dominating in at least 1 icon). This makes Confucius a pretty strong character and allows you to share trivial things like Oars or Bangle with your opponent for the purpose of getting more Figures. An excellent card all around!

Plato (Purple):

Another great card in Echoes games, not so much with a Base + Figures game. Splaying cards left early is great for revealing Echo effects and even some good Inspire effects from earlier Figures. Hopefully you have tucked a whole bunch of Age 1 Echoes cards and have Bell and Flute in your purple stack! Plato's Inspire effect is very, very good, and it lends well to his Karma effect.

More symbols is very good. Plato will give you at most 5 additional symbols for all five piles being splayed. Note this works even for non-left splays! His usefulness will last quite a while, since in the optimal case, his card essentially counts as 20 additional symbols. Be mindful for when he is eventually covered up as to what you'll become vulnerable to!

Finally, just as you're dominating the symbol count, you can Decree Rivalry and knock your opponent back some progress towards the next achievement. Excellent!

Archimedes (Blue):

The first of the “increase Age values”. His natural Echo effect means you'll end up drawing a 3, and the interactions with him versus many other cards can lend to more craziness. Some notable examples include:

Teching up two Ages with non-blue cards (Pencil in Age 4 to draw an Age 6 card, Charitable Trust in Age 3 to draw an Age 5 card) makes said cards much stronger.

Attacking your opponent with Clock to immediately end the game; good if you're leading in score!

Changing the criteria of some cards. Have Noodles out and a bunch of Age 2 cards? Well, good for you! Noodles, with Archimedes out, now evaluates who has the most Age 2 cards, instead of Age 1 cards!

Not sure about this, but Archimedes may interact with the 'make more achievements available' cards like Chopsticks and Toothbrush. Look out for those interactions!

As great as he is, be very mindful of attacking your opponents with most Demand effects; the compensation they will receive will be boosted by Archimedes. Hitting an opponent with Enterprise with Archimedes out will mean they draw and meld a 5 (which may be good if you're looking to steal a card from them in Age 5!).

Zhang Heng (Blue):

For I am Zhang Heng, destroyer of boards. For when you need to catch up in points and tech quick! His Karma effect adds considerably to your score and is an excellent way of claiming the Wealth bonus if you are playing an Echoes game as well. If your stacks are tall enough, you may also get lucky with claiming Monument as well!

Zhang Heng is absolute boss in Base + Figures games, where the numbered achievements are much, much more important!

But... be mindful of using his Echo effect too much. It will destroy your board, and this can be very problematic in an Echoes game. If his echo effect is revealed via a right or up splay, it may be very dangerous to run your blue stack in the late-game, especially when Age 3 cards are returned!



6
Roddenberry's special victory condition is easy: it references the USS Enterprise from Star Trek.

I wonder how often someone is able to pull this one off.  It's like a 10000:1 shot.

Yeah it is supposed to be difficult, but if you somehow get Enterprise into your forecast, you can hold off and hope you get lucky during Age 9. Meld Gene Roddenberry, meld out of forecast Enterprise and boom!

7
Innovation General Discussion / Re: Figures UI change
« on: August 20, 2013, 02:49:45 am »
This is a good change, but I certainly though Isotropic was borked when I couldn't see a way to Inspire.

Perhaps a main menu notification about the change may be helpful?

8
Innovation Articles / Re: Figures in the Sand: Age 1
« on: July 28, 2013, 06:33:33 pm »
Nice write-up! First of all, to make this article complete, I suggest you mention Gilgamesh.  :P

I agree with everything you say. Tigernmas is the best Age 1 figure, and definitely the one you have to watch out or your whole board would disappear (which happened to me once...) Most cards do basic things, but there's two outstanding figures that open up new combo possibility.

Sunsho Ao - This is one of the two cards (the other is Mikhail Kalashnikov from Age 9) that allows you to play the same card several times in one action. Use Reformation to tuck Toothbrush from your hand five times to splay left all five colors! Or if you want something broken, tuck Soap, and use Soap to tuck the same yellow card over and over again for infinite actions! (need rule confirmation)

Hatshepsut - We all know math is great, but she knows a better trick. Pair her up with Agriculture and you can tech up while scoring! And you don't have to worry about your cards being melded over since everything goes to your hand and score pile. Hmm? Her Karma requires you to have a 1 in your hand? Use her Inspire effect!

Thanks! I can't believe I skipped over Gilgamesh. But well, I've added him there now!

Very nice addition there with Sunsho Ao. It is quite possible to tuck the same card multiple times and get some great benefit from it. I guess that could be one of those few times where you have some sort of super-turn where you just meld a whole bunch of cards / draw a bunch of cards with Domestication, score a bunch of cards with Agriculture, and the like.

That said, a lot of the cards that can get you to tuck a ton of stuff from your hand are either yellow (e.g. Soap) or purple (Reformation), and the Purple ones only appear later on (Code of Laws isn't a very fast tucker). Yellow is unfortunate, as Sunsho Ao is also a yellow Figure card!

9
Well, yes and no. It's true that you don't mind sharing as much, but demand dogmas are still every bit as nasty as they've always been, so majorities certainly still matter. As far as scoring goes, yes on the one hand there are more achievements available - but on the other you need more to win, so you still want those standard achievements. Particularly for a Figures game without Echoes, I believe scoring is still quite important.

Absolutely right. A Base + Figures game is still a fight over score, since Decrees will only get you a short way towards winning. Base + Echoes + Figures does de-emphasize scoring, but ignore that at your own peril!

10
Hatshepsut of Age 1 could totally wreck your hand if you aren't careful using him appropriately.

Man, I usually hate to be overly pedantic, but given that Figures does a really good job of incorporating leaders of both genders and multiple cultures, and obviously strove for that, we should at least acknowledge that Hatshepsut was female.

Oh dear. Duly noted!

11
Innovation Articles / Figures in the Sand: Age 1
« on: July 23, 2013, 06:50:51 pm »
… and so it begins. You're off to a good start with the initial meld and it looks like you can share something fairly harmless (like Bangle from Echoes) with your opponent. You draw one of the Age 1 Figures and... well... How good can they be? Some can be awesome, but most of them are fairly “meh”. Honestly, it depends on the type of game being played. A Base + Echoes + Figures game has a much more important focus on building a nice big, splayed board with tons of bonuses and echo effects to get the most out of your limited actions. A Base + Figures game is more likely concerned with scoring quick to snag the numbered achievements. Some of the Age 1 Figures just don't work well with these efforts, and some can even throw your hand state or board state into chaos!

One very important point to note with Age 1 Figures is that there are 15 of them versus 10 for each of the other ages. Thus, trying to find a particular Figure in this age is going to be a little more difficult than in other Ages. Additionally, some games may have you and your opponent tearing through the Age 1 cards, basically rendering them moot.

Let's get to it; I'll refer you to http://innovation.boardgamestrategy.net/figures-card-list/ so you all can follow along.

Sunsho Ao (Yellow):

Aside from providing a single Castle symbol and a bonus of 1, Sunsho Ao's Inspire ability is not bad if you have empty piles; you can basically think of it as equivalent to Domestication in this case. You can use it to get unwanted Echoes cards out of your hand (and tucking Echoes cards is never a bad idea).

Sunsho Ao's Karma effect is a little... odd. Being able to run yellow card effects by yourself is nice, but the fact that you aren't actually tucking the yellow card does not contribute to your board building efforts. Additionally, many of the yellow Age 1 and even the Age 2 cards benefit from staying out on your board while you execute the multiple times (Agriculture, Domestication, Fermenting, Noodles, and Toothbrush, to name a few). In later ages, a lot of important Demand effects come in yellow cards, and tucking them won't allow you to benefit from them.

Shennong (Yellow):

Foreshadowing 2s is somewhat weaksauce early on, but doing an Inspire action with Shennong is certainly superior to just doing a Draw action! Try and get Echoes cards foreshadowed, as they are a bit more powerful than the Base cards (Fermenting aside). Its Karma effect may be problematic if you're trying to fight your opponent for the Destiny achievement from Echoes. That said, it is a reliable but slow scorer.

Try and combo this with Echo cards that allow you to reliably foreshadow, like Bell or Bangle. Ice Skates can be quite nice when used with Shennong if you can Foreshadow a bunch of 3s quickly into your score pile.

Sneferu (Yellow):

An excellent karma effect and inspire effect. Drawing and tucking cards early on is great when you still have empty piles, but the fact that you have a potentially repeating effect is quite great too. From a statistics perspective, 5/10 Base cards in Age 2 feature a Castle symbol, while only 4/10 Echoes cards in Age 2. If the Age 2 pile is empty, then only 4/10 Base cards in Age 3 feature a Castle symbol, and only 2/10 Echoes cards in Age 3. Keep in mind the empty colors on your board and what you might expect to come up if you ran this Inspire effect. The two Age 2 red Echoes cards feature good bonuses as well as Castle symbols, and could be used to snag a numbered achievement!   

Finally, the Karma effect is quite great in competing for an important symbol early on and later in the mid-game. Be mindful of an opponent sharing Ice Skates, which may have you returning those nice Age 2 cards you've been tucking from Sneferu's Inspire effect (all while giving him Figures for the 'share').

Finally, being able to issue an Expansion decree with two figures is always nice, but perhaps not so awesome in the early-game. Your piles are still at risk at being knocked down to a single card, eliminating your up-splay. That said, if you have a solid tucking mechanism, go for it!

Hatshepsut (Green):

What could be a problematic card. The bonus of 1 is nice, and the 'The Wheel'-like Inspire effect is always good for when you need to draw cards. However, be very mindful of its Karma effect, which could get you in loads of trouble if you have a large hand full of other precious Figures cards. If your opponent melds Hatshepsut, look for ways to mess with his hand and knock out his Figures (Archery comes to mind!)

That said, Hatshepsut might be great when the Age 1 pile empties and your opponent still has no teching mechanism; you can trigger Hatshepsut's ability and return all those cards back for your opponent to slog through!
 
Fu Xi (Green):

Issuing a Trade Decree with any 2 Figures is always good stuff. That said, foreshadowing three Age 2 Base cards might not necessarily be the best thing to do. Doing the Decree when you have an Age 2 card on your board would allow you to foreshadow Age 3 cards, potentially putting powerful weapons of mass destruction (read: Machinery) in reach, or at the very least, away from your opponent!

Fu Xi's a great way of joining in on any lightbulb action thanks to his Karma effect (such as an opponent running away with Mathematics). However, be mindful that many of the early Age lightbulb effects are fairly innocuous, and your opponent will be glad to share them with you for the purpose of drawing more Figures cards! Be sure to anticipate this when using Fu Xi.

Drawing and scoring a 2 is nice, but is perhaps a little too slow to do early in the game; where board building and left-splaying with Echoes is a little more critical.

Sargon of Akkad (Green):

The Inspire effect is excellent; Mysticism without the chance of it failing. Excellent thing to do when the piles clear out! Sargon of Akkad's Karma effect is fantastic for board-building purposes, and is a great way of taking care of troublesome Echoes cards that you can't get rid of. Also a great counter against demands that would have you melding lower age junk over your top cards!

Can also work well if you tuck it with Code of Laws for a left-splay in green!

Hammurabi (Red):
A lightbulb in Red? Always a good thing to see, particularly when trying to pull off getting Supremacy with Novel. A bonus of 2 makes it nice for trying to quickly claim the early age achievements quickly (before your opponent rises to higher tech levels for higher leveled Figures). The Inspire effect is essentially like Domestication; try and meld Echoes cards (I know I sound like a broken record player, but this is really important in Echoes games!).

The effectiveness of the Karma effect really depends on the Demand effect in question. It can neutralize Demands that transfer equal things over (Navigation is essentially a waste, unless your opponent does not have any 2s or 3s in their score pile), while some can still end up still hurting you (Machinery is still pretty devastating, and leaves you with the highest cards that were originally in YOUR hand). Definitely worth melding if your opponent brings out a dangerous card with a Demand!

Bonus points if you tuck Hammurabi with Code of Laws... Just because it historically makes sense.

Gilgamesh (Red):

Gilgamesh's Karma effect just makes me want to question some of the new systems that Carl added to the game. Really? Bonuses provide more Castle power to top cards without bonuses? Eh?

Gilgamesh rewards the player who lays down tons of Echo cards with bonuses, and yet rewards those who have top cards without bonuses. At the end of the day, he can be crucial for when your opponent techs themselves up to Age 3 and gets their hand on dangerous cards like Engineering or Katana.

His Inspire effect is nice and jives well with his 'bonus' Karma effect for the purpose of snatching up some early numbered achievements (preferably BEFORE your opponent gets access to more powerful higher age figures!). That said, the Inspire effect location only appears on right-splays later on in the game. That just ain't right!

Tigernmas (Red):

Tigernmas is a very, very, very good card. Let me count the ways?

1. It is a red card with leaves. LEAVES!!! There's only so many red cards in Innovation that feature this icon type. The next red Figures card to feature leaves is Robert E. Lee from Age 7.
2. You can issue a War decree with any two figures. In Age 1, this can be extremely damningly powerful if your opponent is stuck in Age 1. I've been reduced to having nothing on my board when Tigernmas came out!
3. Its Inspire effect is like 'The Wheel', never a bad thing.
4. Its Karma effect gives you points for items in your hand. This is great for snagging the numbered achievements. The Inspire effect on Tigernmas essentially gives you two more points in an action, while putting two more cards in your hand. Excellent!
5. Irish king legend of awesomeness? 'nuff said. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigernmas)

Ptahhotep (Purple):

Another take on the 'demand defense' Karma effects that Hammurabi features, Ptahotep's is not quite as dramatic, but can be enough of a disincentive to cause your opponent to consider doing something else. Of course, it's not very effective if your opponent has nothing in their score pile, or their score is predominantly bonus-based. Ptahhotep's Inspire effect is very situational. Cannibalizing your own board for score points so early on in the game may be unwise for board-building purposes in an Echoes game, but the ability to reveal other cards you may have tucked can be great for providing more flexibility!

Be very, very careful of an opponent with Mapmaking. Ptahhotep's Karma effect can cause a lot of harm with an opponent who can hit you with Mapmaking while he has a 1 in his score pile. Fortunately, Ptahhotep can Inspire himself off of your board if such insanity could occur!

Sinuhe (Purple):

An excellent source of Leaves in the early game. Its Dogma effect is perhaps a little too slow to do by itself in the early game. Look for ways to splay your purple cards left, which if you have been tucking some good purple Echoes cards, can really turn Sinuhe into a power-house card of splaying, scoring, and foreshadowing!
Being able to issue the Rivalry decree early on can be good if your opponent's found a strong Figure (read: Tigernmas), or if they are leading in score.

The Karma effect on Sinuhe doesn't lend well to the symbols on Sinuhe, but can be nice if you have other cards featuring the symbol. Certainly not the strongest Karma out there.

Homer (Purple):

A two bonus is always nice to see!

Homer's Inspire effect is a slightly less powerful version of Sneferu's, but is still pretty great if you still have empty piles. Homer's Karma effect is very, very situational. It can be good against dangerous Dogma demands from your opponent (Flute comes to mind as one). I am not sure if 'exchange' or 'transfer' effects triggers the Karma shown on Homer (probably not).

Perhaps one of the best things to do with Homer's Karma effect is to issue a Decree; as the 'removed' Figure cards would then be immediately tucked. Unfortunately, as Homer doesn't assist in Decrees, you'll need to get a Figure in Ages 1, 2, and 3 before you can pull it off. D'oh!

Daedalus (Blue):

Drawing and Forecasting 4s? IN AGE 1? I never asked for this... But still, is good!

Granted, doing a single action to forecast a card isn't the strongest of plays in the early game. That said, Daedalus works really well with early scorers, particularly those that also forecast cards (Bell is one good example). However, it is a fairly slow combo, and one that your opponent might be able to counter by looking for Engineering, Katana, Kobukson, or Gunpowder! As strong a strategy as it could be, don't end up building something only to see it crashing back down to Earth.

Imhotep (Blue):

Imhotep's Echo effect is very nice early on, but may not be something you want to share with an opponent. Additionally, Imhotep's Karma effect is of questionable value. If you end up drawing a strong card (like Mathematics or Fermenting) you might not be able to meld it without triggering Imhotep's ability. Try and find other ways to splay your cards, or meld cards you won't mind returning! Once your piles are splayed, Imhotep's Echo effect is a more easily-shared form of Sailing!

Huang Di (Blue):

Huang Di's Echo effect is but another form of Writing, and is innocuous enough to share with your opponent for the purpose of drawing Figures. Huang Di lends itself well for getting enough Figures to do its Advancement decree.

You will certainly want to meld one of the 2s you draw to Advance yourself up to Age 4... Much more effective than drawing a 3. If you don't have a strong castle lead, you'll want to hold off on doing an Advancement decree until you can do it on your first turn, for risk of it being stolen (via Archery or Construction).
Huang Di's Karma effect is humdrum, lightbulbs also providing leaves is okay, but you'll probably only get a few more since most lightbulbs in the early game appear in just Blue and Red.

12
Now that Figures is on Isotropic (huzzah for Dougz), let's talk strategies over here.

Figures adds some additional complexity to Innovation, but it fits a great niche with the dogma sharing and achievement claiming aspects of the game. As such, it provides a bit of a rubber-banding effect where someone leading ahead in score and claiming standard achievements will have to worry about the Figures popping up in their opponent's hands. Managing your own Figures, taking advantage of their Karma effects, as well as dealing with the Figures potentially drawn by your opponents is key to success!

Echoes interacts critically with Figures, as the additional achievements means the strategy of building up a nice board with tons of echo effects and bonuses is still key to doing well, and the drawing rules for Base versus Echoes cards can affect some of the Inspire and Echo effects seen on some key Figures. Likewise, the availability of more effects involving the Forecast mechanic can line you up some pretty important combos during your turn...

Let's get to it, shall we? Much of the below is somewhat taken from the rules, but some of the more esoteric parts of Figures does bear mentioning for strategic purposes!

1. Drawing Figures.

Unlike the rules governing drawing Base or Echoes cards, you only get a Figure card in your hand when one of three things occur:
A. You complete a Dogma action that you have shared with at least one opponent. Instead of getting a free Draw action (with just Base or with Echoes too), you get a Draw action of a Figure card of the appropriate age instead.
B. Your opponent claims a standard (number) achievement USING THE ACHIEVE ACTION.
C. Some special echo effect that says to specifically draw a Figure (the echo effect from Duke Ellington of Age 8 is one example).

That's really it. A big thing to note is that, excluding the very rare cases listed in C, you can only ever draw one Figure per action (either from Dogma-sharing, or your opponent taking a standard achievement). This is critical to remember when considering using Decrees.

Did you catch what I wrote in B regarding the standard achievements? Yes, Figures are only distributed when the ACHIEVE action is used for claiming a standard achievement (on Isotropic, that's when you click the Achieve # button shown at the bottom left of the screen). Now, if a Dogma effect or a Karma effect allows you to claim an achievement as part of the effect, your opponents DO NOT draw a Figure! This is a good thing! Keep on the lookout for when you might be able to claim an achievement without using the Achieve action (though you are not likely guaranteed to find such a thing during a typical game).

If there's one big thing you should keep in mind with Figures, it's that you should be more hesitant to claim standard Achievements. However, it's a bit of a time-bomb since the longer you wait to claim the achievement, the more chances you give to your opponent to teching up, and it's still pretty true that higher level Figures are generally more powerful! Don't be quick to snag them if you can afford to wait, but don't wait too long either!

2. Figures and Karmas

So Figures feature passive effects on them that change the rules for you in some way called Karma effects. They are many and numerous, but know that though most are advantageous, some of them can be... problematic. Hatshepsut of Age 1 could totally wreck your hand if you aren't careful using her appropriately. Likewise, Imhotep of Age 1 might have your returning a critical card just to splay a pile left. Fortunately, it is not common where you'd have to involuntarily meld a Figure card you haven't had at least a chance to look at for an action, so you can at least work out a plan for how to deal with the card (possibly by using it as part of a Decree!).
One of the most common Karma effects you can see on a Figure card is the ability to issue a decree of the card's color using only two Figures. This is quite nice, since Decrees are another achievement for you, but it's a bit more than that. We'll discuss Decrees further below.

Some Karmas can cause you to win once you've met some certain criteria. Be very careful when claiming achievements when your opponent is in a certain age and able to meet those criteria; you might just cause your opponent to win!

3. Inspire and Echo effects on Figures

Many Figures have respectable Echo effects that are usually good enough to run by themselves for one of your precious actions. The Inspire effects (the faded circles as opposed to Echo boxes), however, can range from sexy to run-of-the-mill boring. You should think of Inspire as Draw+. Certainly when considering between taking a Draw action and an Inspire action, the Inspire action will usually be the better choice. However, you should be careful considering the Karma effects of the Figure as well as the state of what type of card you might potentially draw (Base vs Echo).

Remember, Echo effects are part of doing Dogma actions, while Inspire effects are a class on their own. On Isotropic, you'll see the ability to take an Inspire action if you can on the bottom left of the screen; and you will only be able to do so if you can see at least one Inspire effect on your board. Additionally, you can only take the Inspire action once per turn, so you can't chain them back to back. Finally, Inspire actions are not shared with your opponent, which can be great when you're falling behind on symbols, but it also means you aren't sharing to draw more Figures!

Inspire actions are also unique in that you might be able to potentially draw a card of a different age than what you'd do with a Draw action. Suppose you were able to tech out of the Prehistory age to Age 2 or 3, and you're doing well setting up your board. Your opponent, still wallowing in Age 1, plays Noodles and starts to score points. As you're in the higher levels, you can't possibly draw more 1 cards to beat out the Noodles rush... Thankfully, you have good ol' Tigernmas from Age 1 out on your board, and you can use his Inspire effect to both draw a 1 card from the Inspire text and then another 1 card since your top red card is... Tigernmas, which is an Age 1 card. Good deal!

Inspire effects are much like Echo effects in that you can execute multiple Inspire effects in a single stack if you can see them. However, in my opinion, chained Inspire effects aren't quite as sexy as chained Echo + Dogma effects. That said, it does give you more options, which is always a good thing in a chaotic game like Innovation!

4. Decrees

To compensate your opponent getting Figures when you Achieve, the new Decree achievements can help push your board building efforts along quite nicely. There are 5 decrees, one for each color, and the effects of each are quite markedly different.

Claiming decrees can be done in one of two ways. For either of these two ways, you need to Remove your entire hand from the game, so you may want to meld an important card or some other non-needed Figures before doing the Decree action. The first way is, if you have 3 Figures cards in your hand, each of different Age values (e.g. a 1 Figure, a 2 Figure, and a 5 Figure) then you may use one of your actions to take the Decree action. You may only choose a Decree color type equal to one of the types in your hand (for example, if your Figures were Blue, Green, and Yellow, then you would not be able to take War (Red) or Rivalry (Purple)). The second, and much sexier, way is to have a Figure on your board with a Karma effect that allows you to do a Decree action with only two Figures. The great part for this version is that the Figures can be of the same Age value, or even different colors (though you can only do the decree of the color of the Figure giving you that Karma).

Decrees are Achievements+ with the benefit that you could do the decree benefit again even if you already have the achievement, but with the downside that those Decrees can be removed from your achievement pile if an opponent does the same Decree action (keeping in mind that when you Decree an achievement already in an opponent's achievement pile, you don't get to do the stuff that the Decree allows you to do... not sexy).

The following are the five Decrees:

War (Red): War can be downright deadly to fairly mild. If you snag Tigernmas (Age 1 red card) early on, you can Decree War and send all your opponent's Age 1 cards back, a great move to knocking your opponent's momentum back. Also nice for removing any tech advantages or very dangerous cards (I'm looking at you Almanac!) on your opponent's board.

Advancement (Blue): Teching up is always nice. However, dumping your entire hand to do so might be questionable. Likewise, consider the fact that you will always draw a Base card of the level you are teching to (since you draw after removing your entire hand). As such, you'll want to consider the quality of Base cards you are getting into. Going from Age 2 to Age 4 is great, since you can then go hunting for power cards like Gunpowder or Reformation. Going from Age 3 to Age 5 might not be quite as great.

Expansion (Yellow): A free up-splay? Very nice. That said, early on in the game it might not be worth it with so few cards out. Look for opportunities to also get the Echo achievements like Wealth, Supremacy, Heritage, and History while doing the up-splay!

Trade (Green): Like Advancement, this one is a bit situational based on what your top card is. All of the cards you will be foreshadowing will be Base cards. As such, foreshadowing a bunch of 4 cards is quite nice... Not necessarily the same for 5 cards. Try to combo this with other cards that allow you to foreshadow to quickly snag you the Destiny achievement from Echoes.

Rivalry (Purple): Fantastic if your opponent is scoring a few high-valued cards. Not so fantastic if your opponent is mass-scoring with cards like Metalworking or just chaining Pottery. That said, you get to pick the score cards returned, so you will almost always pick their highest ones. Returning all their top figures can also be good against strong combinations that might show up. The mere threat of doing Rivalry can be enough to keep your opponent's figures in their hand.

---

I'm planning on doing a detailed overview of the Figures, age-by-age!

13
Innovation General Discussion / Re: Figures in the Sand
« on: July 18, 2013, 11:09:03 am »
Hot damn, I'm impressed.

There's bound to be tons of bugs, will be on the lookout!

14
Innovation General Discussion / Re: Innovation log prettyfier?
« on: June 27, 2013, 11:22:54 am »
I don't think one can approach Innovation exactly the same way as one approaches Dominion. In quite a few Base games I have played, there is a point where players will convert from a score-based strategy for the numbered achievements to a focus on getting special achievements (perhaps encouraged by the appearance of a score stealer like Navigation, The Pirate Code, or Combustion). That might be a little hard to prettify or to represent abstractly.

15
Innovation General Discussion / Re: isotropic down
« on: June 16, 2013, 01:35:39 am »
Nope, not just you. I have the same problem too. I guess the server just went and died on us... :(

16
Innovation General Discussion / Re: 4-player way too powerful synergy
« on: June 07, 2013, 04:49:27 pm »
It does go both ways. Clothing, which is usually very powerful in a 2-player game, is not as powerful in a 4-player game since it is a lot more difficult to have unique colors when you are comparing your board to three other opponents. Likewise, Machinery is not quite as effective since you might end up passing all the high-tech goodies to another player after doing multiple exchanges!

17
In all seriousness, 105 different interruptable karma abilities? 3 of which keep other figures out on the board so that you might have multiple overlapping karma abilities? Not only will there need a handler to take care of the individual karma abilities, but you'd need something to handle the possible ordering of different karma effects on each other! Temporary achievements (Alfred Nobel and the like), increases in icons, the very confuddling wording that is Gilgamesh, logic to temporarily modify the numerical values inside the black-box (Archimedes and Albert Einstein), the ability to play Jeopardy? with Alex Trebek (do you type in the name or select from a list?), the game ending interrupt ability of Jackie Chan, and the ability to turn those black hexagons into echo effects with Stephen Hawking... These are just a few of the challenges that would have to be coded into Innovation!

I just realized that Karma abilities never trigger off of each other. It is in the rules for Figures in the Sand, so that would be one less thing to worry about.

Although, in the odd case of maybe having multiple karma affects potentially triggering when something happens, logic would have to be written in to allow the user the option to pick which one occurs.

18
In all seriousness, 105 different interruptable karma abilities? 3 of which keep other figures out on the board so that you might have multiple overlapping karma abilities? Not only will there need a handler to take care of the individual karma abilities, but you'd need something to handle the possible ordering of different karma effects on each other! Temporary achievements (Alfred Nobel and the like), increases in icons, the very confuddling wording that is Gilgamesh, logic to temporarily modify the numerical values inside the black-box (Archimedes and Albert Einstein), the ability to play Jeopardy? with Alex Trebek (do you type in the name or select from a list?), the game ending interrupt ability of Jackie Chan, and the ability to turn those black hexagons into echo effects with Stephen Hawking... These are just a few of the challenges that would have to be coded into Innovation!

19
Hey rinkworks,

I tried sending you my suggestion by private message, but I'm not 100% sure if it came through. Any chance you could let me know if you got it (also, I just signed up for the Dominion forums after months of lurking, yay!)?

Pages: [1]

Page created in 0.055 seconds with 20 queries.