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Messages - ConMan

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: A quick Temple tip
« on: April 17, 2018, 07:16:14 pm »
This way, you will win the game, which makes it impossible for you to lose.

Dominion has a move that makes it impossible to lose? Man, what a broken game.

alls you gotta do is buy silver, or something better than silver
Pro-tip: On a coins-provided-per-coin-cost basis, Copper is infinitely better than Silver.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Losing streaks
« on: April 12, 2018, 07:38:28 pm »
A simple example of how we don't understand randomness inherently - imagine flipping a fair coin 10 times, and write down the results. Now flip a real coin 10 times, and write down the results. If someone does this exercise blindly (i.e. without knowing what I'm about to spoil), I could probably pick the fake result because the real result is likely to have a streak of 3 or more of the same flip, whereas someone trying to make up a believable-looking result will probably only have a maximum streak of 2.

I've seen someone just a make a BM deck with the randomizers.  If you buy a card, remove the randomizer from the deck, and then find a copy of the appropriate cards.
I've done that, and once you have enough expansions it is a huuuuuuge pain.

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Conclave
« on: April 04, 2018, 02:23:01 am »
- Are there any cards you can compare it to? Maybe some Throne Room variants?
How about Festival? Costs $1 more, gives +Buy, getting two actions is unconditional.

This has now got me thinking about edge cases: Conclave plays a card at once, before it's finished resolving. Is there some useful hack you can do with that? The best I can think of is using Conclave to play a Royal Carriage then immediately calling the Royal Carriage on the Conclave.
Kind of oddly, you can Throne Room the Conclave, use it to play two Royal Carriages, then call the RCs to play either the Conclave or the Throne Room another couple of times (but you can't play more RCs with the third or fourth play of the Conclave).

So Conclave + Reserve is a decent combination too. Something like Conclave + Wine Merchant/Distant Lands + Draw-to-X would be quite neat, if nothing else.

Rules Questions / Strange things with Necromancer and Overlord
« on: March 23, 2018, 12:05:54 am »
After reading this post, I started wondering two things:

1. Does the card played by Necromancer get turned over when it's chosen, or after it finishes being played? (My guess is the latter)
2. Does an Overlord being played from the trash stay an Overlord (since it's not in play), or does it get stuck as the card it was played at (since it never leaves play)?

Because depending on how those resolve, then you could do this:

I have two Necromancers in hand. There is an Overlord in the trash, and a Throne Room in the supply. I play the first Necromancer, using it to play the Overlord. I choose to play the Overlord as Throne Room, using it to play the second Necromancer twice. The Overlord is still an Overlord (depending on the ruling for (2)) and is still face-up (depending on the ruling for (1)), so I can choose to use the Necromancer to play it again, potentially picking another card in the supply.  When that's done, I turn the Overlord face-down, so I can't use the second play of the Throned Necromancer to play it again.

I played a Necromancer as an Overlord as a Necromancer as a Sacred Grove.
That's neat, but why were any of the additional steps necessary?

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 20, 2018, 06:00:45 pm »
I agree, maybe something like:

"+2 Cards
Put this on your tavern mat.
During your Action phase, you may spend an action to call this. If you do, +2 Cards."

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion jokes/pick-up lines
« on: March 19, 2018, 07:12:15 pm »
Why did the expert dominion player buy a scout?
Because he was playing <insert another game where a Scout is actually a good thing to buy, I dunno go Google it or something>.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Metropolis
« on: March 15, 2018, 09:20:48 pm »
Dismissal $4
Action - Reaction
Return up to two cards in your hand or discard pile to the supply.

If Dismissal is returned to the supply gain a card costing up to 5 from the supply.

I'm just wondering - do I have the wording of this right here. Does it know who is gaining the 4 cost card (the previous owner of Dismissal is who it should be) or does it lose track of that? It seems identical to Hunting Grounds so I assume no problems.
I also think this version becomes quite useful to the set. You can Dismiss a Dismissal to gain a Doomsayer and then return your excess Doomsayers later rather than be choked with them. And returning them to the supply makes gaining them useful again.
You should say "If you return Dismissal to the supply, ...". Otherwise, the wording here suggests that *every* player gains a card from the supply.

The cursed gold is in your deck regardless.
That much is true, but that doesn't mean that buying the Hireling is going to be a great option. If you ignore the CG that turn and use your coins to buy Silver, you can use that towards buying the Hireling on the next shuffle, which will be of similar overall utility to doing it the other way around, but won't cost you a point. And that's assuming that Silver/Hireling is the best you can do on the board, in which case heaven help you.

Getting the Curse on the first shuffle is super bad.

To illustrate the point, if you play Cursed Gold to reach for Ill-Gotten Gains, you junk both players with a Curse and you also get a glorified Copper, which is basically just worse than not doing anything at all. Or if you play CG to reach for Lab, that's also worse than not doing anything at all because if you play the Lab and draw a Curse, that's the same as not having either card, but if you have the Curse in hand and Lab misses the shuffle, that's worse. Granted, IGG and Lab aren't exactly power cards to open with anyway, but sometimes you're pretty happy to open them on a regular 5/2 when there's nothing more important on the board.

So, if skipping your turn is better than reaching for Lab or IGG, buying something useful for $3 is probably better than reaching for any $5.

What about reaching for a power $6?  Artisan with spammable $5s on the board, Border Village for a $5, Hireling or Altar?

Hireling is actually a really inefficient card that you should avoid in most games regardless of Cursed Gold, and Border Village doesn't make much of a difference until later. For Altar and Artisan, it's not so obvious. Powerful (and spammable) $5s is one factor that makes them more attractive, nonterminal cycling/trashing or Gear for $3 is another.

Hireling would be one of the strongest cursed gold openings.
Probably not that strong, especially in the absence of trashing. Assuming that you haven't got an engine going, then once per shuffle the Hireling's extra card draw is exactly cancelled out by the junk card in your deck (and if you never play the Cursed Gold again, you technically have two junk cards in your deck, so you can raise that to twice per shuffle).

Because we need a thread whose entire contents people can memorize to get better at the game.
The fact that "memorise a lot of granular information" isn't synonymous with "become good at a game" is one of the reasons I prefer Dominion over, say, Chess.

Dominion Articles / Re: What's stopping AI from mastering Dominion?
« on: March 06, 2018, 05:30:13 pm »
I'd be fine with a play-against-bots option that had good AI but required you played on one of a few dozen fixed kingdoms, especially if game updates added new sets over time. I don't know how the AI is stored, but I assume you could keep it in a fairly compact format to make it manageable; and presumably you could also grab versions of the AI at different stages of training to provide different difficulties (but with the proviso that the "easier" bots are more likely to make weird moves).

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion:Cities
« on: March 06, 2018, 12:48:36 am »
In the rule book it says that the type curse means it is worth negative points
Well, no, the rule book says that "These are bad cards worth -1". It also says that Curse cards are base cards that are always included in the supply. If you want your cards to behave differently, you need to explain how (like how the rules for Dark Ages explain about replacing starting Estates with Shelters), and how they interact with cards that already reference Curses since you've now created a distinction that leads to rule questions and you didn't initially explain how to resolve them.

Gendo, I salute you for still having the patience to critique these batches of fan cards. Well done!

Finally someone likes my expansion
That's ... not what he said. At all.

Also, please go back and read rinkwork's guide.

Rules Questions / Re: Pilgrimage card choosing/gaining order
« on: March 05, 2018, 01:14:20 am »
That's an interesting question.

My thought is that you choose all three cards, which then sets up three simultaneous "Gain an X" events, meaning that you can choose which one affects you first. In which case, you can choose to gain the RL first, then see the RV and choose to gain it, and finally gain the RM. Or you can choose to gain the RM first, which fails, then choose to gain the RL, then gain the RV. Or any other such ordering.

Dominion Articles / Re: What's stopping AI from mastering Dominion?
« on: March 01, 2018, 10:09:24 pm »
Secondly, it can be hard to separate out important factors. Do you change your card play to suit a buying strategy or do you change your buying to match your card play? That's a block on the current level of AI but a supercomputer should crack that. However what if your card play and purchases depend upon your opponent's hand next turn? What if your opponent plays differently based on your card plays and purchases? This is beginning to sound like a rapidly expanding problem.
My suspicion is that you might get some mileage out of having two separate AIs - one that handles the Action phase, and one that handles the Buy phase (assuming that the kingdom is chosen such that there are no meaningful decisions to make involving Night, Clean-up or other players' turns). That might simplify the structure, and you can randomly pair them up to form a "full player" in each iteration of the training.

It will always be a question of how much abstraction and simplification you can use to make the problem more easily solvable, and how much of an effect that has on the skill of the AI. For example, instead of feeding in the complete game state, down to the probabilities of what card is on top of the opponent's deck, is it enough to just have a few simple measures like "Provinces left in Supply", "VP differential between players" and "Coin value of Treasures in hand"? (Answer: The list probably needs to be longer, but probably not as long as you might think.)

Dominion General Discussion / Re: very short strategy article
« on: March 01, 2018, 07:14:49 pm »
Typically better? Situationally better? Strictly better, 90-93% of the time?

Dominion Articles / Re: What's stopping AI from mastering Dominion?
« on: March 01, 2018, 06:21:06 pm »
I think that you could have some limited success under controlled conditions, in particular a fixed Kingdom and maybe fixed opening hands (I wouldn't go so far as to require identical random seeds for shuffling or anything like that). Under those conditions, I'd consider some kind of genetic algorithm that has some kind of heuristic information about the game state, and specific information about what decisions it gets to make. Possibly even some kind of hybrid genetic / neural network algorithm? It wouldn't even necessarily need to know what each card does, because it would figure out on its own that in particular game states it should buy or play particular cards (for example, it would hopefully learn that it usually wants to play enough of its Treasures at the start of the Buy phase to afford stuff).

I suspect that it would take a long time to train, not necessarily because of the number of choices but because of the stochastic nature of the game - in Chess or Go when you move or place a piece it does what it does, and if it's the "right" move you will get the "right" result; in Dominion, if you have $7 and a Moat in hand and your draw deck is two Estates and a Copper then even if playing the Moat is the correct move you won't necessarily get the result you need. So you'd want the AI to "forget" things more slowly, I think - you don't want it to make a good move, have a run of bad luck, and thus decided to never make that move again.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Idea: Treasure-Free Dominion!
« on: February 25, 2018, 08:07:43 pm »
A simple hack would be to include the Alms Event. Then you could get hardcore and start people with a deck consisting of just three Estates.
Or Borrow plus Poor House, which gets a significant boost in that case.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Semi-Interesting Dominion Moments Thread
« on: February 18, 2018, 05:51:47 pm »

They really don't pay enough in the education system these days.

Other Games / Re: Dominion clones
« on: February 08, 2018, 10:25:40 pm »
I'm guessing no one has played Tanto Cuore (myself included). I am genuinely curious as to how good that game is, because it looks to me like one of the most blatant rip-offs of Dominion, mainly just adding Anime style Maids as the theme. It seems to keep most of the vanilla resources of Dominion.
I've played it, and I think it's a decent game - questionable theme and art aside. It's probably the closest thing out there to an actual Dominion clone (not counting the official Touhou Dominion release that literally just renamed cards) - it's probably the one Donald often refers to when he talks about clones where the main innovation is apparently "make the Treasures cost $1 more". While it's one of the first things you might notice, the game does also have:

1. "Private chambers" that act a little like the Tavern/Island mats (some cards let you put them there, often ones that score points, although typically there's no way to retrieve them mid-game)

2. "Private maids" which is a pile of unique cards that usually give you a bonus at start of turn, but which you can only have one active at a time

3. Some interesting scoring cards - cards that are worth different values depending on whether you have an even or odd number of them, cards that score differently if you manage to chamber them (like Distant Lands), etc. Each expansion actually has a different set of basic point cards that score slightly differently, too, so it would be like if Hinterlands had replacement Estates and Provinces with different values.

4. The expansions add other new ideas, like a pile of cards that you have to meet certain conditions to claim.

Is TC a game as well-designed as Dominion? Probably not. I enjoy it, but it is very obviously a more "fluffy" game than Dominion in more ways than one. And there's definitely an essay or two you could write about the theme and art and the portrayal of women (and while some of the art is borderline pornographic, plenty of it is work-safe and downright cute). I'd also point out that it doesn't change a lot of the things that are causes for complaint when Dominion players play other games - it kept the one Action/one Buy rules (and has cards to let you do more of both), it has a fixed supply with only a few special piles that contain unique cards, it doesn't have much in the way of deck thinning (which relates to the more expensive base currency - if you could trash your deck you could potentially stalemate yourself) but it does have some means of replacing cards with better ones and/or taking cards out of your deck.

Rules Questions / Re: Enchantress on a Ghosted Enchantress
« on: February 08, 2018, 09:52:33 pm »
The part below the line isn't the "instructions" referred to by Enchantress. There's no more in-depth answer.

I meant more why the part below the line doesn't count as instructions. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that I get VP for Groundskeeper despite the attack, but I don't exactly understand why. I'm guessing it's the same reason that Throne Rooms don't affect anything below the line?
The above-the-line part is the part that happens when you play the card, and that's what Enchantress affects. Below-the-line stuff is just stuff that happens because the card is in play - if there was an effect that moved cards into play without playing them, then the stuff below the line would still happen, and it's been decided that those effects aren't affected by Enchantress (partially, I suspect, because it's harder to track).

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Xerxes's cards
« on: January 21, 2018, 05:41:54 pm »
Stamp Collector feels like it's needs something else. The main ability is just a nerfed version of "+3 actions", which is extra weird because it already gives +1 action by itself. Maybe if that first +1 action were +? If it's too strong; it could replace the buy.

It's not necessarily limited to 3 Actions even when played as the first card of your turn. That said, the card will always allow playing at least 1 Action card, and so I agree it doesn't need the base +1 Action. I also like the idea of changing the Buy to a Coin.

3 was a pretty arbitrary number I picked. I think it will be pretty rare that it's more than that though.

Also, I seem to remember seeing similar discussions before, but having you set aside cards in this way will get super messy pretty quickly when you use Stamp Collector to play a Stamp Collector. You'll have a pile of 3 set aside cards, and then another pile of 2 more set aside cards, and yet another pile of set aside cards... you have to remember which pile you are resolving when. I think it's one of the reasons that Golem can't play Golem.
I proposed a card with the same mechanism as "Harvest Queen" in the Cornucopia design contest, and it was rightly pointed out that as interesting as the card may be, it's also hard to track nicely. Maybe if you made it like Archive, so that you put cards underneath it and have some system to let you play them from underneath it. But then you still need an incentive to do it that isn't just a nerfed +n Actions. It's one of those things that feels like there's a good idea in there but it's hard to make it work in an interesting but also playable way.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles
« on: January 15, 2018, 06:32:46 pm »
I play the same Action card from my hand twice, without playing any other cards. How?
You have your +$1 and +Buy tokens on Fortress. You play a Fortress from your hand, then call 6 Royal Carriages on it, giving $7. You buy Bonfire, trashing the Fortress so it goes back to your hand, then Villa to return to your Action phase. You play the Fortress from your hand again.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles
« on: January 11, 2018, 05:32:59 pm »
My one thought is using the PS attack to discard stuff off the top of the opponent's deck, which may help if you're playing lots of Chariot Races and you already know the top card is too expensive.

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