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Messages - wrathofmine

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Game Reports / interesting games with beginners
« on: August 25, 2012, 09:40:42 am »
I had 2 beginners who never played dominion and am happy of the kingdoms I created, we had two very interesting games and they bought one copy of dominion each one (donald can thank me again ;) )

First game :
- cellar, moneylender, smithy, lookout, market, bazaar, cutpurse, spy, throne room, oasis

impossible to open double terminal, you can improve your deck in the beginning by trashing, drawing or attacking

First player opens moneylender silver and goes for some kind of big money
Second player opens market, copper (against my warnings), sees that the big money of first player gives big turns very fast and goes for some kind of smithy/big money
I open market/cellar. Seeing that my two beginners want to go for heavy money decks I try an engine based on throne rooms/market, and one cutpurse with lookout for trashing. My principal objective was a deck with many different actions cards to show them why you need trash, attacks, and how you can combo actions. I also avoided to buy the cards they had (so: no moneylenders, not so many smithies).
The engine was very challenging to pull out (and clearly not optimal) but I managed to get the win over the moneylender/big money. And the smithy player gets far behind stopping brutally to buy money to get one of each actions when he saw the combo possibilities.

Second game, I want to add some "rules" but let the same flavor they liked, so :
- lookout leaves for steward : choices
- bazaar leaves for tribute : one player saw this card and wanted to try it, so why not (and I hoped one player would have bought too many actions and cannot play them)
- moneylender leaves for jester (you wanted to get rid of your coppers... now get some, and discover the curses)
- cellar leaves for moat (obvious reason)

This time first player goes steward/cutpurse saying "why would you ever buy silver above steward" and goes for a heavy action deck (cruel lesson)
Second player (the one who wanted tribute) goes very fast for a heavy tribute/jester, because of opening 5$ and lucky 5$s at the beginning.
I make some heavy trashing with steward and follow on jester

Near the beginning my jester gives the too-many-action-player one more cutpure to help him drawn in terminal actions.
The tribute player's deck goes impressively great as soon as I reveal one action. He is also the only player with moat for a moment.
I finish first with a good advance (being the only one to buy golds!) but they understood their mistakes.

That was a long time I didn't have real fun playing with beginners and I'm really happy with the kingdoms I created. Everyone enjoyed the game and they learnt their mistakes by themselves seeing the other possibilities of the board.

edits: I fight against my keyboard

Rules Questions / Re: Black market bane
« on: August 23, 2012, 05:14:52 am »
At this point we have an unresolved question. There are 9 copies of the card in the box. Do we do as much as we can, and add a stack of 9 cards to the kingdom? Or do we do as much as we can which is discover there is no card not already appearing and not add any bane to the kingdom at all?

But it's the same question that this one :
I create a random kingdom. The 3rd card I draw from randomizer is black market. I create a pile with all other kingdoms cards to be the Black Market pile. Now I don't have enough cards left to create the other piles of the supply. Do I play with a 3 cards kingdom ?
As I assume nobody will play with a 3 cards kindom (or 1 if the black market is the first card we draw from randomizers)

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: The anti-Governor/Fool's Gold counterpart
« on: August 22, 2012, 12:08:07 pm »
It just occurred to me that the reaction here becomes super-overpowered as soon as the Loot stack is empty (or if Loot comes from the black market deck).

That could be fixed with a quick wording change, like adding "if possible" to the end or something.

Actually I'd forgotten about this card and have been rereading everything and trying to come up with a way that it could be balanced. There are some really good ideas in this thread.

Edit: actually, "if possible" probably wouldn't work, but I'm sure there's some way to get the idea across simply.

and why not "When another player gains a Gold, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, they gain a treasure costing less than gold they choose".
In that case opponent will often take a Loot because otherwise it would be a 6$ Silver. When there is no Loot anymore it's not so overpowered, because there is good chance that at this point your opponent has already enough Loots and don't want one more.
And it can have fun interaction with others alternative treasures.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Keeping your friends
« on: August 22, 2012, 02:48:24 am »
Cursers are okay, but heavy cursing can be really off-putting. I think I tend to go easy on the attacks with new players because having your deck pinned down repeatedly can be really un-fun (even for experienced players actually).

I remember the first day I played dominion, after a fey games my opponent added the Witch, he did'nt know we only have 10 curses for 2 players. He managed to do a village/witch/moneylender engine against my beginner's deck. 24 curses in my deck... it was definitely not fun.
That's only after I read the rules that I wanted to let a second chance to the game.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Keeping your friends
« on: August 21, 2012, 12:59:23 pm »
Don't choose the cards.  You already have an advantage by knowing the game.  Picking the cards and you're already picking favorites and thinking strategy before anyone else.  Go random and go in blindly with them.

I can't agree with that just because some cards are not that newbie-friendly. I only need to point to Dark Ages for illustration.

Also, some cards can turn off newbies. Witches and Mountebanks, for example.

Besides, if you're a skilled Dominion player, then you're going to know all the cards anyway and can whip up a good strategy that'll trounce the newbies. A random configuration won't be a handicap for you, and you run the risk of souring the game for someone else.

To avoid that I take all the randomizers and look one card at a time. And I see if it fits on the board, if it's too complicated etc... When I have a card like mountebank in hand "hey look at that, believe me you don't want to try it now"
It permit to have a game somehow random but with no hard cards. And I remember a game where we had Harvest, Lighthouse and Bank: not too complicated and you can explain what are the expansions themes.

My priorities for the first game are :
- easy to play/understand cards
- some expansions variety
- no powerhouse combo "oh what a shame you didn't see the KC/Wharf/Goons combo, sorry for you"
- no obvious alternate way to game than province buys. And I explain dominion is so rich, that's not the best way to win on every game
- at least one attack but no curser (except jester), no pirate ship and no ghost ship

And I only explain a little strategy things:
- the too many terminal thing if an opponent goes that way
- if he wants to buy the first province I tell him "it can be a good idea to fasten the tempo of the game, but are you sure you want to do that ? you are the best to know if you have 8$ by luck or if you deck is able to do that regularly".

I always try to play optimal, I don't want my opponent to think Dominion has no learning curve, and I remember my first games when I saw my opponent draw his deck and I was like "I need to be able to do that one day"

For the moment nearly everyone called my one week after "hey I bought the base game, (what's the point of chancellor ?)". I think that prooves it's a good way to learn.

When you play IRL it's important to find ways to keep track of how many actions are left, how much money the player have with his actions etc...
It's a challenge when a player play king's court / kings court / pawn / minion / nobles.

what we do is :
- making a tree with actions: if there is only one action under your village you've still got one action left with that village. (when I play one isotropic I still visualize my cards like that to keep track of my actions in my head)
- turning 90° the duration card at the clean up. Next turn's clean up we will know which one have been played last turn or now
- when minion chain (without throne room/KC) we put the "discard your hand" ones on another column, to be sure we don't count $ for those afterwards.
- we recap orally how many $ and buys are on the table before we play the money

For the rest it's memory but I think with the coming of dark ages we can have games that will be harder to follow : procession / kings court / pawn / merchant ship for example. I don't know how we're going to put that on the table and keep visual for next turn.

Do you have some tricks to follow certain steps during someones' turn  ? do you play differently your cards on the table?

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Playing Dominion IRL
« on: August 18, 2012, 03:48:51 am »
Not many french people on here. If someone happens to visit Paris he can have a couch and play with beautifully sleeved dominion cards.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Attacks that give a choice to opponent
« on: August 17, 2012, 11:04:06 am »
Of course, that makes sense. Maybe there would be a way to avoid that ? but I don't see what... except playing only VS games.

Variants and Fan Cards / Attacks that give a choice to opponent
« on: August 17, 2012, 09:48:53 am »
Since Torturer is out I think a card where you have to choose between get the attack or give a bonus to opponent could be interesting. Like that for example :

5$ - Action - Attack
+1 card
+ 1 action

All other players may discard down to 3 cards in his hand.
If at least one don't : +2$

That could be interesting because once everyone has discarded, you cannot have +2$ anymore. But if they don't want to discard their cards and you have another in hand, you can win another 2$ or make them think twice.

I also thought of the same card with stronger attack but as a terminal to make it less easily spammable :

5$ - Action - Attack
All other players may gain a curse (or a copper if no curse available)
If at least one don't : +2$

I add the copper requirement to make the card not useless if there is no curse available anymore. I haven't tested those cards so far, just an idea I wanted to see in Dark Ages. Maybe there is a good reason no card of this type has been done and I don't see it.

What do you think ?

Dark Ages Previews / Re: Two new cards!
« on: August 16, 2012, 11:42:37 am »
You may trash a gold or a province
Each other playe gains
2 cards of the supply, each
of them costing at least 5$

Rules Questions / Re: Hoard / Trader
« on: August 13, 2012, 05:08:32 am »
Good, thanks for your answers.

- hand: Contraband, Hoard, Hoard, Trader
- my opponent sees a Hoard trick coming and vetoes Great Hall
- does'nt matter I buy two Estates, revealing my Trader, so I gain 4 Golds and 2 Silvers this turn (just before a reshuffle)... wait can I do that ?

happy to know it really worked.

Rules Questions / Hoard / Trader
« on: August 13, 2012, 04:44:54 am »
With Hoard in play and Trader in my hand, can I buy an estate, reveal a trader to gain a silver instead, but still gain the gold from the hoard ?

I would say yes because for me the gain "triggers" after the buy, and hoard gives a gold on buy, but I'm not sure of me ? can someone confirm that or tell me where I'm wrong ?

Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« on: August 09, 2012, 09:35:25 am »
So if you have Rats problems... call an Hermit

Dark Ages Previews / Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« on: August 09, 2012, 08:58:22 am »
I've said it before; but I definitely think Ruined Library instead of Ruined Smithy. The Ruins would make a lot more sense as buildings or places instead of people. It's effect could be +1 card, or possibly draw to 5 cards in hand.

A smith is a person. A smithy is a location.

Interesting... I've been thinking of it wrong this entire time!

There are two people on the smithy card.. have you been calling it smithyies!?

A little off subject but for the "smithy" thing : what is funny is that in french the card is "forgeron" (= smith), if they had translated litterally it would have been... "Forge", it could have been problematic.

I still don't know how these Ruins cards aren't going to completely screw up your deck.  Shelters seem like the most likely answer.

Others have suggested Shelters might allow you to trash Ruins or protect you from Ruins, but what if the Shelters simply give you actions so that you can play the Ruins?

Shelter - $2
Action / Victory
+ 2 Actions
0 VP

Shelter - $2
Action / Victory
+ 1 action
Tou may play a Ruin from your hand

Would be more logical like that. You can play a ruin for free but not any other action

Everyone is focused on how a one cost makes remake way worse - true, but it makes develop way better.

Yes, trash one to top deck a Copper and an Estate ! The best develop can do ;)

Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« on: August 06, 2012, 09:19:56 am »
Well, Poor House creates an interesting nombo with Upgrade—not only can you not trash your starting Coppers, but your deck would gain a terminal money that is worse for you having Coppers left.
Or is it a combo- trash all your coppers, making every poor house worth 4?

I cannot wait to see it with Remake: more Poor Houses or a Silver from estate to make your Poor House less valuable ?

Game Reports / Re: Quickest an opponent has resigned?
« on: August 03, 2012, 04:59:05 am »
Apparently it's a frequent case:

turn 1, I play 5$, mountebank on the board
"Seriously ? this game is over" and starts to play his coppers slowly one by one to make me resign.

Game Reports / Re: locked by rabbles/minions
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:46:13 am »
Yes I won't say the contrary, I'm impressed of what he did.

But maybe, as dondon151 said, my opponent was way too cautious (but didn't see the backdoor he let me), and what was interresting at the beginning was way too long and felt like sadistic at the end. I had the impression it would never end. That's in this way more than in setting the pin that I felt it frustrating.

He asked me if I wanted to resign, but I prefered to see where it would end.

Game Reports / locked by rabbles/minions
« on: August 01, 2012, 12:37:42 pm »

I just had a very long game where my opponent gave me each turn 3 victory cards in a 4 cards hand with 3 victory cards to draw. The game took forever because I had 5 provinces and 2 duchies to 2 provinces and my oppponent wanted to cautiously build up without let me play and there was no +buy on the board.. Here is the log :
I just couldn't play from turn 20 to 38 where I finished buying the 10 curses to win (I thought of this exit very late). My opponent did a mistake ending 2 piles, if he hadn't I couldn't have won I think.

But this game gives me many questions. Is this a frequent way to play ? Did I have any way to avoid this ? Could I see it come and made a big mistake ? And which way would you take ? (I know Hunting parties/rabble wasn't optimal because the way I played, after a good hand I had big chances to have a crap one.)

And would you choose this way to play on this board ? I ask that because I find this all but fun playing hours to have your opponent "0$... I buy nothing/copper/curse" (and I cannot imagine in a real game). And when you are the one that is constantly with 0$ hands, it's so boring and frustrating to play...

I'm not english speaker so excuse me if I'm not simple to understand.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: July 30, 2012, 01:14:25 pm »
Pirate Chancellor
$5 - Action

I you put your deck in your discard, take a chancellor token. If you choose not to discard, gain a stash for each token you've taken with Pirate Chancellor this game.

Game Reports / Re: Unlucky Treasure map
« on: June 12, 2012, 11:26:40 am »
that's funny you say that you would play it in a game when you get all your deck, i've always played treasure map at the beginning to get some sort of gamebreaker. I usually always play it when i have a support like warehouse and get a good advantage real fast (if it works).

On this game i thought it was interesting to gamble and I think I could have taken the advantage if I hadn't been so unlucky. I agree with you it's not the best strategy in that game, but I thought it would be more fun than the silver/smithy Robz said.

Game Reports / Unlucky Treasure map
« on: June 12, 2012, 09:46:50 am »

I feel i've been the most unlucky with treasure map i could be :
in turns 12 and 13 i had 6 cards in my deck, and still not the 2 treasure maps together : 3 coppers, 2 treasure maps and a lookout. What is the probability to have that ?

I know I should have done like my opponent and buy 3 or don't buy it at all, the set had many other possibilities, but I like this card so much... not my fault!.

And my after game is horrible but 4 provinces to 0 with nothing but 4 golds in the deck I don't think I could have come back.

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