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Game Reports / One of the greatest 2 player games ever
« on: April 23, 2018, 06:11:09 pm »
Yesterday I had one of the greatest 2 player games I've had. Unfortunately it's one of those blasted "Internal Error" games, so I can't reload it.

I remember all the cards except one:
Tunnel, Bard, Vineyard, Golem, City Quarter, Catapult, Secret Passage, Cursed Village, Apprentice
Battlefield, Pilgrimage

There were several things that made it great:
* Two completely different strategies.
* Both strats influenced the other: He opened Tunnels as a response to my Catapult, I couldn't touch the Provinces because of his continuing lead.
* Both strats had support but also challenges from the kingdom. (Tunnel great with Battlefield, but no voluntary discarding, only from opponent's Catapult. Vineyard great with Pilgrimage, but no +buy except through Bard.)
* Ending the game by buying a Curse.
* The only time I've played where someone used a Fate card to get specific Boons often.
* Final score was 51 to 50 VP. He started with a big lead, which got bigger, then I gradually gained on him, winning with 1 VP.

His strat was to buy all the Tunnels he could straight away! He got all 12 VP from Battlefield, plus I think all the Tunnels - 16 VP. Then he pretty much always had at least one Tunnel to discard to my Catapulting, giving him something like 15 Golds after a while. He also got the "discard 3 for a Gold" Boon from Bard, with 2 Tunnels in hand, giving him 3 Golds at once. With all the Tunnels and the Curses from me, his deck was still not great, but he managed to buy, I guess, 5 Provinces by the time the game ended. He had a Bard and also a few Cursed Villages which sometimes let him draw up after my discard-attack.

I went for Vineyards, gaining Action cards through Pilgrimage, and trashing with Catapult and Apprentice. City Quarter was of course my engine. After a while I was unnecessarily making around $8 to $10 each turn (but of course could absolutely not buy a Province), and the problem is that if you buy Pilgrimage, you can't buy Vineyard. Therefore I was cycling through 4 Bards each turn, getting +1 Buy three or four times in the game, and also picking up 4 Wisps in the end. I also had to slow him down through Cursing, so I had to gain cards for Catapult, I gained Silver and even Gold from Boons just to trash them, but I also had to trash some of the Catapults I was gaining.

He denied me the last Vineyard, so then I Catapulted the Potion, giving him the 9th Curse. I was up to 7 VP per Vineyard and 52 VP, and bought the last Curse.

I don't think a big money approach could have won here against me, because I would discard-attack and curse you pretty good. Big money against him I'm not so sure about. You would have to refrain from discard-attacking and let him drown in his Tunnels, but it's still a 28 VP initial lead to overcome, and you're not really trashing down efficiently to get to your Silvers and Golds.

Dominion General Discussion / How good is Fishing Village really?
« on: December 07, 2017, 11:38:19 am »
I've often heard how FV is one of the best villages, if not the best. And sure, it nets you an Action twice, while other villages only do it once. And it's great for consistency to start your turn with 2 Actions. So when you don't draw your deck, it's a great village.

But once you draw your deck, isn't it just worse than plain Village? Since you can only play it every other turn, it actually nets you an Action only once at this point, same as Village. And it doesn't draw, so you need more draw to keep drawing your deck than you would with Villages. It gives you +$1, so in essence (compared to Village) you're sacrificing a card for a draw, which is like a Copper. So it's like having a Village and a Copper in your deck, right? You would rather trash that Copper. The advantage is that you still start your turns with +Actions, so you will pretty much never stall.

My conclusion is that FV is a great village while building, but if you're building towards drawing your deck, after a couple of FVs you pretty much always want other villages instead. I mean, if they're available. (Yes I just played a game IRL with both FV and Village.)

Have I made any mistakes in my reasoning here?

Dominion General Discussion / Empires cards I still don't get
« on: November 29, 2017, 04:13:09 pm »
There are many cards in Empires I play less than optimally, but there are a few I don't get at all. ...Actually, Annex is the only real puzzler.

I have seen someone buy Annex exactly once. It was end game and he had $7. In that situation, if you would buy the Duchy anyway, I get it - given that you have good cards in your discard pile of course. And you really have to think it helps you to get those cards into your deck, because you're potentially making your next turn $7 instead of $8, which could lose you the game. If you have less than $7, you're hurting your next turn even more. So the situation where you should buy Annex seems very rare. Is there something I'm not seeing, some other use for it?

Triumph also seems very limited. I have seen Triumph used like two times, but then it was to very good effect. Also, that was in two different games. So Triumph was good overall in those games, not just once in a game like Annex.

The other one is Ritual. I get the concept here I think. Trash high cost cards, get VP, then trash the Curses later. The other more rare case would be in the endgame, you buy it if you have exactly $7 to trash a gold for 6 VP and a Curse, or if you have $4 and some other expensive card. But I have still not experienced anybody ever buying it I think. (Unlike Defiled Shrine, you have to trash a good card, and it costs $4 instead of $0.)

Rules Questions / Timing of "+" tokens and Urchin/Reactions
« on: November 22, 2017, 02:02:14 pm »
Hoping Donald answers this. The previous ruling was that "+" tokens are resolved before Urchin or Reactions, because the tokens dictate that they go "first". The ruling is not in any rulebook, it was just based on Events like Pathfinding saying "first".

Now in the new editions, all Reactions and Urchin also say "first". Is the ruling still the same, or can you now choose to gain Mercenary before drawing from your +1 Card token?

Rules Questions / Trashing several cards with Monastery
« on: November 16, 2017, 12:47:51 pm »
When a card tells you to trash a number of cards, they are all trashed at once. But Monastery says "for each". Is it several trashing effects or just one?

For instance, if I gained 2 cards, can I trash an Overgrown Estate, draw a Curse, and then trash that Curse?

Rules Questions / Choosing a card to gain with Changeling
« on: November 16, 2017, 12:04:22 pm »
I assume this is like Smugglers, you can choose whichever card you have in play, even one you can't gain a copy of?

Dominion: Nocturne Previews / Remaining mysteries
« on: November 03, 2017, 03:30:09 pm »
Some of the biggest questions for me:

* Will there be a Night Throne Room? (not like Ghost, but rather "play a Night from your hand twice") (probably not)
* Will there be an Action Heirloom or Night Heirloom? Maybe one that isn't a Treasure at all?
* Will there be a card that says "while this is in play"?
* Will there be another Reaction? Maybe a Night Reaction? (probably not)
* Will there be an Heirloom called Grimoire?

Rules Questions / Is Boons/Hex discard pile hidden?
« on: October 30, 2017, 05:21:13 pm »
I guess it's going to be in the rules, but if I'm lucky I can get the answer now. Can you look through the Boons and Hex discard piles?

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Nocturne preview cards
« on: October 23, 2017, 01:21:26 pm »
Does anybody know if the cards are up yet? I checked the box, but no Nocturne cards appeared in the game. I wonder if it's an error in the game, or the choice was just put up too early...

Rules Questions / New Stash + Inn
« on: September 14, 2017, 10:36:06 am »
As I'm looking more closely on Stash, I think the new text is a bit confusing. Of course I know how it's supposed to work: You get to look at the remaining cards in your deck, meaning the cards you're not shuffling, before placing Stash. A player has to know about the new shuffling rule for this text to make any sense of course, and even then it has caused some confusion. But I wonder if it's even technically correct.

When shuffling this, you may look through your remaining deck, and may put this anywhere in the shuffled cards.

Usually, "when" means "after", so "when shuffling this" should mean after you've shuffled. ("Shuffling" must refer to just actually shuffling, so before you add the shuffled cards to your deck.) So, after shuffling your discard pile, you may look through your deck, and then you fish out Stash and place it anywhere in the shuffled cards. Then you add those cards to your deck. This works fine.

But what about Inn, Annex and Donate, where you actually shuffle your deck? You are told to shuffle some cards into your deck. So you first add those cards to your deck, then you shuffle your deck. This is different from the normal shuffling, because normally the cards you shuffle are not in your deck. Going by the above, Stash now lets you look through your deck after you've shuffled it, and then lets you place Stash with complete knowledge. I assume this is not intended?

We could assume that the meaning is rather "when you would shuffle this". So the first thing you do is always look through your deck, before shuffling. But you don't do the next instruction until after you've shuffled (which is clearly indicated by "in the shuffled cards"). So the interpretation is something like: When you would shuffle this, you may look through your remaining deck, and then after shuffling, you may put this anywhere in the shuffled cards.

Dominion World Masters / World championship 2017
« on: July 05, 2017, 01:04:45 pm »
Does anybody know if there will be one in 2017?

I have never been to GenCon (I don't live in the US), but it seems that it's been held at GenCon most years, is that true? (I have only attended one world championship, and it was at Essen in 2011 or something.)

I see that people have been able to qualify at GenCon itself. Does that mean that the person who wins this qualification is the US champion? Other countries of course have their own championships, where the winner/champion qualifies for the finals in the world championship. Can anybody from around the world participate and potentially become US champion? (Hmm, what if a national champion travels to GenCon, participates in the US tournament and also becomes US champion?? Or maybe national champions are forbidden to participate.)

I live in Mexico but I'm Norwegian, so I guess I could participate in the national championship in Mexico City (if I wanted to take a plane there). But unlike last year's Mexican championship, this one doesn't mention the world championship.

Rules Questions / Rule about timing for several players
« on: June 20, 2017, 05:47:08 pm »
I'm assisting in translating Empires. I noticed this phrase:

"When two things happen to different players at the same time, go in turn order, starting with the player whose turn it is."

I see that the same phrase is used in many rulebooks. But it looks like it's wrong to me. In Empires this is what follows: "For example, when a player plays Catapult and trashes Silver, the other players gain Curses in turn order, which may matter if the Curses run out."

This is not "two things", but one thing. It's something happening to several players at the same time. It seems like the start ("When two things...") was copied from the preceding, different rule: "When two things happen to a player at the same time, that player picks the order to do them..."

Am I correct, or does it make sense with "two things"?

Dominion General Discussion / Math is hard - questions about chance
« on: March 28, 2017, 02:57:00 pm »
I hope someone can help me.

What's the average number of Events/Landmarks (as a whole) in a given random Kingdom? Assume 55 L/E and 330 cards total. Assume shuffling all 330 cards and drawing until you have 10 kingdom cards as per the rules.

The average would seem to be 1.67, but that number doesn't take into account the cap at 2 L/E. And I have no idea how to take that into account.

Rules Questions / New editions of cards online
« on: January 11, 2017, 08:11:48 pm »
Since all cards are now presented in new editions on Dominion Online, it should be okay to discuss the new versions. Donald has said (as I understood it) that cards might get further changes before they are published, but for now this is what we're playing with.

Here is a text file with all the new versions, with thanks to Seprix. (He told me that there might be changes online not reflected in this text - Moat and Diplomat are missing the word "first" here.)

The only cards with functional changes (after Intrigue), seem to be Scheme, Embargo and Outpost. Possession is also changed, but the erratum in the Empires rulebook was apparently meant for 1st edition Possession cards too. (I'm still wondering about Stash.)

Hinterlands (already published)
Nomad Camp: Previous inaccurate wording now corrected.
Haggler: I thought the new wording made it less clear. Cheaper than which card?
Inn: Now clearer that Inn isn't necessarily shuffled in (since it's not necessarily in your discard pile).
Scheme: Changed functionally because the choice is now when actually discarding each card, not at the start of Clean-up. But it seems to me that in practice, with all existing cards, it will never make a difference...?

Embargo: Each token is now a separate ability triggering, which means you can resolve other when-buy abilities (like Haggler) in between. This is very marginal of course. Also the strictly inaccurate, cumulative under-the-line text is now fixed (but not fixed on Duchess, Baker, Trade Route and Young Witch).
Pirate Ship: Corrected according to existing errata.
Salvager: Now specifies that it's coin cost.
Treasure Map: Now says "if you trashed", which matters for Band of Misfits.
Outpost: There is another thread about it. Four functional differences: It never stays in play if it fails; it doesn't make you draw 3 cards if it fails; it doesn't work if Inherited (it refers to "Outpost"); and if you have other extra turns lined up you can now resolve the Outpost turn last.
Tactician: Changed wording, but I think that it's functionally the same.

Apprentice: Coin symbol corrected.
Possession: Corrected according to existing errata (stated in Empires rulebook).

Coin of the Realm, Royal Carriage: Previous wording was strictly inaccurate - now changed.
Storyteller: Coin symbol corrected.
Borrow, Save: "+1 Buy" moved, which makes the meaning of "once per turn" less confusing on these Events.

Black Market: Previous inaccurate wording now corrected: It was missing that you can play Treasures. A dividing line is also added. The setup rule has actually changed functionally strictly speaking: Before it said to use all cards not in the Supply. But from very early on Donald hasn't supported this requirement, and no online implementation has followed it. So this change is really a correction according to existing errata.
Envoy: Corrected according to existing errata (stated in Adventures rulebook).

EDIT 2017-08-21: Trade Route: It now trashes first, which can matter if your trashing leads to gaining a Victory card. See this post.

If anybody can spot any other changes that matter, or any mistake I've made, I'd appreciate it if you chime in.

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Buttons in the log was a serious mistake
« on: January 09, 2017, 10:35:24 am »
I think the new platform was almost certainly launched too early. It has way too many bugs and especially interface problems. Not being able to name cards that are not available in supply and other bugs that make certain cards near-uplayable are serious problems.

But the interface problems are even more serious. There are several, but the most important is the buttons in the log. During beta testing, I didn't for one minute think that this (to me) temporary solution would actually be implemented live. A tutorial might have mitigated this confusing UI, but there is none.

I'm not complaining about these problems because of how annoying I might find them myself. (For instance I know about the buttons in the log, so this doesn't create a problem for me.) I just want to say that these are things that should be fixed ASAP. The longer until this is fixed, the more casual players will be driven away. Delaying launch would probably have been a better idea business-wise.

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Unpublished card wordings
« on: October 14, 2016, 12:56:56 pm »
I refer you to this post.

I guess you guys will use all new wordings on the cards? This creates the curious situation where some cards will play differently online than physically, as long as the new versions remain unpublished. Let's take Stash. This is not a corner case, because whenever you have Stash and you shuffle, you'd almost always want to look at the cards you draw before you place the Stash. Of course people can play however they want, but the fact is that now officially, with the second edition of the base game, you're not allowed to do that with Stash. But probably (based on what Donald wrote), whenever Stash is reprinted it's going to go back to functioning as before. So we have this inbetween-time where Stash functions differently than we're used to - but only physically, because online it's going to continue functioning like before.

I really hope this isn't going to be the case for many other cards. It looks like Embargo is another one, but unlike Stash that's an extreme corner case that hardly matters in practice.

I'm not saying you guys have all the answers here. I'm just wondering if you considered this.

Dominion General Discussion / Availability of updated cards
« on: October 03, 2016, 11:42:38 am »
So... the only way to get the new Masquerade is to buy Intrigue 2nd edition, right?

I think I'm going to buy Dominion 2nd edition, because of the new base cards, so that means I'm getting the new Moneylender, Mine and Throne Room. I'm going to buy the Intrigue update pack to of course get the 7 new cards. But I would also really like the new Masquerade. But to buy a whole set (instead of the update pack) just for one card seems a bit silly.

Goko Dominion Online / Raze bug
« on: August 25, 2016, 01:04:24 pm »

Pretty sure there is a bug here. Turn 8 I play Disciple on Raze. First play, I choose Raze and trash it. Second play, I want to choose it again (in order to not trash anything), but the only options I get are the cards in my hand. (The screen text still says, "Trash Raze or a card from your hand".) So I have to trash a card from my hand.

Any point in reporting bugs anymore? Where do I do it now?

Rules Questions / Dominate and Possession
« on: June 28, 2016, 09:36:24 pm »
I think I have this correctly, but I want to make sure.

I Possess you, and make you buy Dominate. I just spent $14 on a Province, because since you don't gain the Province, you don't get +9 VP. (And neither do I.)

Ritual, Triumph and Wild Hunt should work the same way. They will never give you VP on a turn that you Possess someone.

"If you trash a card with multiple types, you get all relevant bonuses; for example if you trash Crown, you get +2 Cards, +2 Actions, and +$2."

For Donald: Did Crown use to have the Victory type too, or is there another reason for this mistake?

Another question, for everybody: Is Inherited Crown/Estate (after cost reduction) the only way to get all three bonuses?

Rules Questions / Two options on Small Castle
« on: June 21, 2016, 11:45:48 am »
The card says: "Trash this or a Castle from your hand."

Does that means you can always choose either, just like with "gain x or y"? So you can choose to trash a Castle from your hand even if you don't have any?

Rules Questions / Smuggling a BoM/Overlord in play
« on: June 20, 2016, 10:39:36 am »
If I gain a BoM/Overlord and draw it and play it the same turn as a Duration, and then you Smuggle it, you gain a copy of the card it's emulating, right?
I wonder if Dominion Online gets this right.

Rules Questions / Enchantress timing
« on: June 18, 2016, 10:52:36 pm »
In the preview thread I wondered about the timing of a player's Enchanted Action. I was sure that the intention is that if you play and Enchanted Attack, Reactions happen first and then you get +1 Card and +1 Action. Witherweaver thought maybe it was the other way around though (based on a reading of Enchantress' ability having the same timing as Reactions - and turn order). Donald, can you tell me how it's supposed to be?

Cards that score at the end of the game say "in your deck", e.g. Gardens, Vineyard...

The Landmarks instead talk about cards that "you have".

I'm guessing that it's the same thing. I just want to make sure there is no intended difference between the two?

Rules Questions / Look through Castles and split piles?
« on: June 10, 2016, 04:37:29 pm »
Here's a very nitpicky question, but it's just to know how to describe these in my rules document, compared to Ruins and Knights.

Can players always look through split piles and the Castles? Let's say players Ambassador a card (or several cards) back on one of these piles. Are you allowed to check which cards are underneath and how many there are of each?

The rulebook says: "Players can read the covered card to remember what it does." But I'm not sure if that refers only to checking the randomizer, or actually being allowed to look through and count. For split piles it's obvious how many there are of each because they are turned, but with Ambassador that could change.

Obviously for Ruins and Knights you can count the total amount in the pile, but not look at the cards.

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