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Topics - Jeebus

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Rules Questions / Urchin "while in play"?
« on: July 17, 2022, 05:35:07 am »

An old question that I suddenly realized could be relevant in a corner-case. Is Urchin equivalent to "while you have this in play, when you play another Attack"?

If you play an Attack, and gain a copy via Kiln "first", and play Urchin then (via Sheepdog>Mouse>Vassal), does Urchin trigger?

Rules Questions / Witch's Hut - discard or reveal first?
« on: July 16, 2022, 01:22:52 pm »
Do you first reveal the cards and then discard them, or reveal them from the discard pile like Tunnel?

The rulebook says "You reveal the discarded cards even if they aren't both Actions," which makes it sound like you discard them first, then reveal them.

But if so, it seems like you would have to play a discarded Trail before revealing.

I play Witch's Hut and discard a Trail and a Smithy. I play the Trail. Can I reveal it now from play (while revealing the Smithy from discard) in order to Curse the other players?
If playing the Trail causes the Smithy to get shuffled in, I'm screwed in any case.

Rules Questions / Wiki - Storyteller
« on: July 14, 2022, 08:29:26 am »
The Wiki says: "With the new rules to Coffers, you can spend Coffers at any time during your turn. This means that after you get the +1 Card from playing the Treasures, you may spend extra Coffers to draw more cards."

Can this really be correct? After you have drawn cards, you are already done paying your $ so how does it help to get more $ at that point?

Rules Questions / Elder on original Oracle
« on: July 14, 2022, 08:05:12 am »
I just noticed that original Oracle says "you choose one: either he discards them or he puts them back on top in an order he chooses."
I guess if I play with that card and Elder, it would let me discard Tunnels and then topdeck (and draw) them.

Rules Questions / Gaining bought card or overpaid-for card
« on: July 08, 2022, 05:25:45 am »
This is how I'm interpreting the new cards with errata, hoping it's correct.

Haunted Woods, Swamp Hag, Haggler: If you are Possessed and buy a card, neither you nor the Possessor gets the when-gain ability.

Messenger, Defiled Shrine (gaining Curse), Tax: If you are Possessed and would gain the card in your Buy phase, neither you nor the Possessor gets the when-gain ability.

Overpay cards: Both Ingix and Donald have said that you do the overpaying when you pay for the card, so it seems to not be timed as when-buy (which happens after you bought the card), but rather before that. So if you play with old Charm and buy a Herald, you can't gain a Silk Merchant or Nomads before overpaying in order to have more $ to overpay with.

Overpay is: you get the when-gain ability based on the amount you overpaid. If you are Possessed and buy an overpay card, neither you nor the Possessor gets the when-gain ability.

(Using Trader v.1 would of course work the same as being Possessed.)

Dominion General Discussion / Questions about some printed cards
« on: July 05, 2022, 05:31:18 am »
Donald, I wonder if you could answer some questions about printings, if you know:

Has Hinterlands been printed with the new "exchange" version of Trader, before the 2nd edition coming out now?

Has Menagerie been printed with the "reveal it to play it" version of Village Green? I guess when Menagerie is next reprinted, you'll remove that clause since it's not needed anymore?

Rules Questions / Emissary and Order of Masons
« on: June 04, 2022, 07:51:36 am »

The wiki says:
If you shuffle from the +3 Cards, and use Order of Masons to make Emissary draw 0 cards, you'll still get +1 Action and +2 Favors.

Is this accurate? Order of Masons has to trigger before you actually shuffle (when you would shuffle) because that's when you actually pick out cards. The shuffling comes after. If you are left with 0 cards to shuffle, then by the definition on Emissary, you didn't shuffle.

Rules Questions / Embargo the pile you bought from
« on: May 31, 2022, 06:33:46 am »
I know Embargo is out, but this is an explanation from my rules document.

I buy a Village, then I gain an Embargo because of Haggler, and I play that Embargo with Innovation, choosing the Village pile. I'm still doing when-buy stuff for Village. Do I have to gain a Curse?

With the current Embargo version, I assume yes. I create a new when-buy, I have to resolve it now.
With the original Embargo version, I assume no. It's a global rule that you gain 1 Curse per token, and I could choose to resolve that rule first, before gaining the Embargo.

Rules Questions / Sorcerer attack with empty deck
« on: May 23, 2022, 01:29:14 pm »

Back during the previews I found on Discord that Donald tentatively ruled that with Sorcerer, if you're deck is empty, you don't gain a Curse. I wonder if this has been reversed? I'm not so sure it's right.

The card text "if wrong" must mean "if it's not the named card".

Giant says (simplified): "if it costs from $3 to $6, trash it; otherwise gain a Curse". If your deck is empty, you gain a Curse (per the current ruling).

What if we turn it around: "if it doesn't cost from $3 to $6, gain a Curse; otherwise trash it". It should work the same, you gain a Curse. Meaning, if there is no card, the card doesn't cost from $3 to $6.

Another interpretation would be, when there is no card, it's always "otherwise": "it" neither does nor doesn't cost anything. The problem with this is that then "otherwise" is not true either, since it directly refers to whether the card costs from $3 to $6. So under this interpretation, Giant would not do anything when your deck is empty.

Following the first interpretation:

Sorceress says: "if it's the named card, each other player gains a Curse". If there is no card, it can't be the named card, so no Curses.

Sorcerer says: "if it's not the named card, gain a Curse". If there is no card, it can't be the named card, so you gain a Curse.

Rules Questions / Island Folk 3rd turn
« on: May 21, 2022, 10:03:00 am »
Rulebook: "This can never let you take a 3rd turn in a row."
This is not really accurate, is it? If I buy Mission and use Island Folk on the same turn, I will get three turns in a row, right?

Rules Questions / Choosing cards with Hunter
« on: May 20, 2022, 08:21:18 am »

Is the choosing an atomic action, or do I choose one card (and put it into my hand), then choose one from the remaining cards, etc.?

Example: I reveal Mill, Village and Copper. I don't want to draw the Village. I choose an Action, Mill. I choose a Treasure, Copper. I choose a Victory; there are none (choosing in the order given: Action, Treasure, Victory).
Or do I have to choose all three, since there are one of each type?

Peddler was rephrased for clarity, from "During your Buy phase, this costs $2 less per Action card you have in play" to "During a player's Buy phase, this costs $2 less per Action card they have in play."

I see that Destrier and Fisherman have the old Peddler phrasing:
"During your turn, this costs $1 less per card you've gained this turn."
"During your turns, if your discard pile is empty, this card cost $3 less."

I assume they work exactly like Peddler, that all copies have a reduced cost (for all players) based on the current player's situation.

At the start of your Buy phase, you play a Leprechaun with Market Towns, and get a Hex. (It's also possible to get a Hex in more complicated ways.)

1) If you get Envious, do you have to return it now, or can you want until next turn? (I assume now.)

2) If you already have Envious, and you return it before playing Leprechaun, and you get Envious again, do you return it again this turn? (I assume yes.)

Obviously if you have already have Envious, it's better to keep it before playing Leprechaun.

Rules Questions / Exact timing of skipping several turns (Lich)
« on: April 07, 2022, 10:40:22 am »
This is not really a rules question, since we know how it works. I'm just struggling to figure out how Lich's skipping turns works technically.

Lich just says "skip a turn", which is not technically accurate since you can't immediately do that when playing the card. Cards that give extra turns say "after this turn", which is accurate.

The Wiki says "when you would begin a turn, skip that turn".
The rulebook says "the next time you would take a turn, you don't".
(The rulebook is more accurate, since it's only supposed to work once, not whenever you would begin a turn for the rest of the game.)

But that description doesn't actually work, since several Lich plays is supposed to skip several consecutive turns. If we use the description above: With two "skip a turn" effects, they would both trigger at the same time, and you choose the order. The second one would fail to do anything, since you're already skipping that turn. So you would never skip more than one turn after x Liches played.

So how can we describe the timing so that consecutive turns are skipped? This must be the first ability in Dominion that sets up something to change in the future and stacks.

Describing "skip a turn" as immediately cancelling the next scheduled turn certainly doesn't work, since (1) you can get extra turns after that, and (2) you can choose which turn to resolve first and that's the turn that will be skipped.

The closest I've gotten is a recursive description:
The next time you would take a turn: If the turn is not already skipped, skip it. Otherwise, the next time you would take a turn, do as described in the previous sentence.

Rules Questions / Garrison without tokens
« on: April 06, 2022, 11:38:53 am »

You play Garrison, but don't gain any cards. When you come to the part of Clean-up where you are discarding, does it stay in play? Its effect lasts for the rest of the turn, which is not over yet.

The only way to gain a card later in your turn, I think, would be if you had bought Donate. But whether it's possible to gain more cards or not, it's still the case that the when-gain effect is not over yet.

Rules Questions / Donate and Baths at end of turn
« on: April 02, 2022, 08:25:01 am »
Now that Donate happens at the end of your turn, it's possible to gain a card in this window. I guess it's obvious where this is going. Baths says "When you end your turn without having gained a card".

I always assumed Baths triggered at the end of your turn, like Save, Faithful Hound and (now) Donate. If so, it's possible to get VP tokens from Baths before gaining a card during Donate. Or if that's not possible, I guess it means that Baths trigger after your turn (before extra turns presumably)?

Rules Questions / Highwayman "each turn"
« on: April 01, 2022, 03:02:36 pm »
Echantress says "the first time each other player plays an Action card on their turn".
Highwayman says "the first Treasure each other player plays each turn".

Is Highwayman supposed to apply only to a player's own turns, like Enchantress, or is it supposed to also apply during another player's turn? So for instance if Alice has Capitalism and she plays Highwayman, and Bob reacts with a Caravan Guard, is the Caravan Guard affected by Highwayman?

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Web page with played games
« on: March 26, 2022, 02:59:47 pm »
There used to be a web page where you could see all your played games; Salvager was for Goko I believe (and Council Room for Isotropic). Does something like that still exist?

This is one ability, right? So after using Cave Dwellers once, you can't call a Guide and then use Cave Dwellers again? Rather, if you want to use Cave Dwellers several times you have to do it consecutively? It reads like that, but I just want to make sure.

Rules Questions / Lich skipping turns
« on: March 10, 2022, 10:24:57 am »
Do you also skip turns that aren't set up yet when you play Lich? So if I play Outpost, then Lich and then Voyage, can I choose to skip the Voyage turn instead of the Outpost turn?

I assume yes; Lich sets up a future "skip a turn" ability, and when you resolve it, you choose which turn to skip. When do you make that choice though? I guess it's in-between turns.

Something else that was asked: Opponent has played Highwayman. You play a Festival, you play no Treasures, you buy Capitalism and then Villa. The Festival you played is now a Treasure. Does it count as the first Treasure you played?

It wasn't a Treasure when you played it, so based on previous rulings for Treasure Map and old Band of Misfits, I assume the answer is no.

Rules Questions / Highwayman, Envious and Coppersmith
« on: March 10, 2022, 09:58:13 am »
According to the rulebook Highwayman has the same timing as Ways and Enchantress.

How about Envious? Is it timed like Highwayman? (You could choose to get $1 instead of nothing from your Silver/Gold.)

This can also be asked about Coppersmith actually. If it has the same timing, you could apply Coppersmith first and get $2, and Highwayman would fail.

Or, are Envious and Coppersmith "shape-shifting" the Treasures, so that the Treasures' abilities are actually changed? Then Highwayman would always override them.

Rules Questions / Elder and Way of the Chameleon
« on: March 10, 2022, 09:08:40 am »
Elder gives you an extra option that you have to choose upfront. This means Elder steps in and makes you do something else instead of what the card says. (If the card says "choose one", Elder says you "choose two different" instead.)

It seems to me that Elder works like Lantern.

Lantern replaces the reveal and discard effects as you're resolving the Border Guard. It's been ruled that if you used Way of the Chameleon, Lantern doesn't do anything, because you're not following the Border Guard's instructions anymore.

Elder talks about what choices the card gives you. If you use Way of the Chameleon, you're not given any choices by the card, but by the Chameleon. So Elder can't give you the extra option.

Is that right?

Dominion General Discussion / Rulebooks on Rio Grande's website
« on: March 09, 2022, 08:28:56 am »
I just checked the different expansions to see if there are updated rulebooks for the newest printings. Is it possible to get RRG to post the newest versions?

Here's what I found:

Dominion 2E: 2016
Intrigue 2E: 2019
Seaside: 2020
Alchemy: 2018
Prosperity: 2019
Guilds & Cornucopia: 2017
Hinterlands: 2016
Dark Ages: 2012!
Adventures: 2015!
Empires: 2018
Nocturne: 2017
Renaissance: 2018

Dark Ages and Adventures actually don't even have the "second edition" rulebooks anymore (they used to have it), only the original rulebooks.

Rules Questions / Citadel and Enchantress
« on: January 20, 2022, 11:01:58 am »
Unfortunately I discovered another potential problem with the newly worded Citadel:

The first time you play an Action card during each of your turns, play it twice instead.

It seems that this now has the same timing as Enchantress and Ways? That would mean that Citadel makes Enchantress fail, just like a Way does.

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