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1

Innovation Rules Questions / Road Building exchange

« on: August 07, 2013, 08:19:04 pm »

When you play road building, meld two cards and do the exchange: does the card transfer happen at the same time, or different times?

In this game:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/07/game-20130807-171049-bddea75b.html
I have Alfred Nobel as my top green card, and archi has road building.  Archi melds to cards with road building, and chooses to transfer.

If first he transfers road building, then I win: his road building gives me enough castles to have twice as many castles as him, which gives me an extra achievement from Nobel and puts me at 8 achievements.

If the transfer happens at the same time, he wins from Alfred Nobel giving him enough achievements.

Iso does the first one.

2

Innovation General Discussion / Puzzle: Infinite loop

« on: July 25, 2013, 12:01:43 pm »

Try to come up with situations in innovation where each player must do the same things over and over.  If they do something different, their opponent wins.

It seems like there should be something with the score stealing cards, but this is what I came up with using physics/alchemy:

Player A Board:
Alchemy
City States
Bicycle

Player A Hand: Empty

Player B Board:
Physics
Lighting
Road Building

Player B Hand: Publication, Antibiotics

[Note: Both have 3 castles and 3 lightbulbs]

Piles:
4: Gunpowder  (Important part: red)
6: Encyclopedia, Atomic Theory, Canning (Important part: two blues)
9: Some cards

Both players have 5 achievements, and 40+ points.  Achievement 8 is still available.  The point is they both want achievement 8.  To achieve 8 they need to meld an 8.  But they start with no 8's in their hand, and their opponent has an 8 which they are threatening to meld next turn.

So it goes like this:
Player A starts. Player B has an 8 in hand, so player A must either achieve 8 this turn, or somehow remove the 8 from player B's hand.  A's only option to do that is Alchemy.  A can do alchemy has its first or second action.  I claim A has to do it on its first actoin.  For now, let's see what happens if A does alchemy on its first action:
B Draws gunpowder, returns gunpowder, a 7, and an 8.
A Draws gunpowder, returns gunpowder.
A Draws a 7 as a sharing bonus.
Now the 7 pile is empty, and A can draw an 8.

The reason A can't do alchemy on its second action is this: the sharing bonus will draw the 7, then B can draw and meld an 8.

The same thing happens on B's turn, but with physics instead.

Now I also claim that each player must draw an 8 at the end of their turn.  After their first action, the 7 pile is empty.  If they don't draw an 8, the opposite player is free to draw and meld an 8.  With no board attacks, score attacks, or insta-melding available, the opposite player will win on the next turn.

3

Innovation General Discussion / Isotropic: showing returns with currency

« on: July 09, 2013, 12:18:11 pm »

Isotropic shows your opponent which cards you return with currency.  I don't think this is correct.

Is this the proper method for error reports?

4

Innovation Game Reports / Intense Game

« on: June 25, 2013, 04:09:03 pm »

One of the things I like about innovation is that all the players have little goals.  For example, pulling ahead in factories so you can blast industrialism.  We make sacrifices to meet these goals, like taking a turn to score 1 with pottery just so you can claim achievement 2 first.  Sometimes two players will have a skirmish over some goal for a while.

With that introduction:  I just played a very intense game against WarMage:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201306/25/game-20130625-124705-3947f559.html

Between turns 6 and 11 WarMage has the potential to set up a fermenting engine.  I want to try to get gunpowder to kill fermenting, and failing that at least grab reformation to stop the big tucking.  He wants to protect his fermenting somehow, and hopefully grab reformation.  We have a back-and-forth where he draws up the 2's and 3's, and I share alchemy in clever and/or lucky ways.  Turn 11 I think I'm set because I have colonialism and gunpowder in hand, but then he steals them with engineering.  I had kept reformation, luckily.

Warmage gets the 1,2, 3 achievements, sometimes just barely.  But turn 15 I get ready to start vaccinating.  There's more back and forth between his chemistry/canning and my vaccination, he's able to achieve 4 but after that I clear out his score pile and can achieve 5-7 (combustion!).

The ending was close: on turn 21 he was something like 1 action away from empire (which he did), 3 from monument (publications to use industrialism, he had nearly 12 factories), and 3 away from splay-achievement.  I got monument from genetics, though, and achieved 8-9.

5

Game Reports / First time I've made NV/apoth work

« on: February 19, 2013, 10:06:35 pm »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/19/game-20130219-190028-6189e0a4.html

Contraband in early game to buy lots of actions, then pseudo trash with native village/apoth.  My opponent didn't really stop me from getting what I wanted with contraband until later, so that helped.
Native Village mat: 8 vineyards, 1 province, 1 contraband, 3 estates.

Post your NV/apoth games; I try a lot but this is the first time it has really worked for me.

6

Game Reports / Fun Vineyards Comeback

« on: February 03, 2013, 11:14:28 am »

Alchemist, Apothecary, Embargo, Noble Brigand, Potion, Secret Chamber, Throne Room, Tournament, Transmute, Vineyard, and Workshop

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/03/game-20130203-075800-2129732a.html

Almost everything here was important.  We both went for apothecary because it's great for getting early provinces for tournament.  I don't get the hands I'm looking for and my opponent gets a province turn 6, followers and another province turn 8, trusty steed turn 9.

So I switch into getting vineyards, using transmute and workshop to gain lots of cards, alchemist for draw and throne room for oompf.  The transmute was pretty useful, I got rid of 4 curses and hit copper with it a few times to end up with 7 transmutes (worth 12 vineyard points).  I gained 5 tournaments on my last turn to end the game, and that was the first time I pulled ahead.

7

Game Reports / cutpurse/city vs. silk road/familiar

« on: January 13, 2013, 11:55:44 am »

I'm proud of how I adapted my strategy in this game against ehunt.

Adventurer, Bank, Border Village, City, Cutpurse, Familiar, Remodel, Silk Road, Stash, and Walled Village

I opened potion/silver for the familiar, and ehunt opened silver/cutpurse.  I figured the cutpurse was just trying to get lucky with killing my 3p, but then he has 3 cutpurses before I hit my first $5 on turn 7.

So I realize his plan is to rush cities and use cutpurses to keep me below 5.  Instead of trying to get above $4 I got 2 familiars and a remodel and went for silk road/estate.  It went as well as it could have for me because silk roads, cities, and estates depleted at about the same rate. 

8

Game Reports / Explorer being awesome

« on: November 24, 2012, 02:24:19 pm »

Key cards: lighthouse, ambassador, caravan, explorer
Really not much else going on for an engine.  With lighthouse and amb, we both get our decks small real quick.  So after my first province I grab an explorer, and use it 4 times for gold.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/24/game-20121124-111958-9b7bcc48.html

9

Game Reports / Clutch embargo

« on: November 11, 2012, 03:51:33 am »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/11/game-20121111-004927-82cc14cb.html

— carstimon's turn 16 —
...
carstimon buys a Duchy.
carstimon buys an Embargo.
(carstimon reshuffles.)
(carstimon draws: an Estate, an Embargo, a Silver, and 2 Coppers.)

— carstimon's turn 17 —
carstimon plays an Embargo.
... getting +$2.
... trashing the Embargo.
... embargoing the Provinces.
carstimon plays a Silver and 2 Coppers.
carstimon buys a Duchy.
(carstimon draws: a Wharf, an Estate, a Gold, a Silver, and a Copper.)

   — mandatory's turn 17 —
   mandatory plays a Gold, 2 Silvers, and a Copper.
   mandatory buys a Province.
   ... gaining a Curse.
   (mandatory reshuffles.)
   (mandatory draws: a Province, 2 Pirate Ships, a Silver, and a Copper.)


Final score: 33-32

10

Game Reports / Beating IGG

« on: August 09, 2012, 07:23:01 pm »

Hi,

I just played this IGG game.  I'd like to discuss it because at first I thought IGG was a horrible card because it completely takes over practically every game, but now I'm starting to think it's kind of interesting.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201208/09/game-20120809-161019-8a81c651.html
Warehouse
Navigator, Treasure Map
Ill-Gotten Gains, Outpost, Trading Post
Harem, Hoard , Vault
Forge

Here was my strategy:
-Open Navigator/silver
-Get hoard ASAP, before you hit $6 buy IGG/silver to get there.  (I got there turn 4, nice)
-In the midgame, prefer hoard at $6 if no hoard in hand, then harem, then duchy at $5 and maybe a couple of IGG, then warehouse at 4-.

Navigator gets me playing hoard faster (hopefully), harem and hoard get me gold and green while my opponent is busy cursing me, and warehouses find my gold in the green and curses.  It worked out pretty well and I only bought two IGG.  In my opinion my opponent made some mistakes: He bought a forge turn 12 instead of a province, he bought warehouse turn 19 instead of harem or duchy.  He also didn't adjust at all to what I was doing and just bought IGG until they were gone.

So my questions for you:
-Would I have won against super optimized IGG bot?
-Is there a way to improve on what I did?  Maybe a trading post?  I don't really see how I could fit that in though, I just wanted to buy green so soon.
-What are your own ways you've avoided IGG, especially on boards with no cursing?  And by avoid I mean: buying at most 3, and not because you just can't friggin hit $5.

11

Dominion General Discussion / Ambassador and trade route

« on: August 08, 2012, 03:42:53 pm »

Trade route is an interesting answer to an opponent doing heavy ambassador.  Here's two games.  (Disclaimer: the duke/duchy one I'm not sure I woulda won if my opponent had fought over the duchies earlier.  But I think I should've bought less farming village.)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120621-164549-e59b2698.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201208/08/game-20120808-122829-4d48cebc.html

The way it works is you get an early trade route and generally prefer trade routes to silver.  You'll have a bloated deck so you want a lot.  They're immediately worth at least $1 because your opponent ambassadors an estate.  You want more victory cards on the board than just estate/duchy/province so that you can get it to $2 for a good reason.  You probably won't have trouble finding something to trade route.

Of course, you need the right support.  I wouldn't want to do this on a board with wharfs and fishing village and goons.  Be smart.  But if there's not really a great reason for a thin deck, consider this.

12

Game Reports / Cute little tricks

« on: August 08, 2012, 12:49:19 pm »

Let's have a thread with little snippets from games.  The games themselves might not be notable but the snippet should have a cute little trick that you pull off and you're proud of.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201208/08/game-20120808-094502-20f909d5.html

I got ahead in this possession game and wanted to avoid my opponent possessing me at all costs.  He had schemes and I saw that my next hand had a province in it so:
  — Nimbex's turn (possessed by carstimon) —
   Nimbex plays a Scheme.
   ... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
   Nimbex plays a Tournament.
   ... getting +1 action.
   ... drawing 1 card and getting +$1.
   Nimbex plays a Scheme.
   ... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
   Nimbex plays a Chapel.
   ... trashing nothing.
   Nimbex plays 3 Coppers and a Silver.
   Nimbex buys a Governor.
   ... carstimon gains the Governor.
   Nimbex puts a Chapel and a Tournament back on the deck (first on top).
   (Nimbex reshuffles.)
   (Nimbex draws: a Copper, a Tournament, a Potion, a Chapel, and a Familiar.)

13

Puzzles and Challenges / Guaranteeing at least some points.

« on: August 02, 2012, 11:50:51 pm »

You're playing a solo game.  Here's some information about the current state of the game.
There are no potion cards except apothecary.
There are at least 24 72 terminals in your deck.  (There may be other things)
There are 9 schemes in the trash.
You have just reshuffled, and your deck is in an arbitrary order.
Bank is the only 7 cost card and herbalist is the only 2 cost card.

You draw your 5 card hand, and realize that you can guarantee getting arbitrarily many points, at a rate of five per a turn, until the game ends.

14

Game Reports / Open remake, finish with gardens. fv/jack.

« on: July 30, 2012, 03:03:45 am »

First let me apologize for spamming this board today, I played all day and had some interesting games.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/29/game-20120729-235005-99f0f69f.html

Border Village, Council Room, Fishing Village, Gardens, Jack of All Trades, Potion, Remake, Spice Merchant, Talisman, Transmute, and Tribute
So the idea was to use jack of all trades' draw-to-x with fishing village to gain a lot of silvers.  Use council room to get +buy for multiple gardens at a time, and remake silvers into gardens as well.  Border village is another way to get a bonus card.
It would have been cool to work Talisman in, but there just won't be time I think.

I really like this one because it uses two cards in uncommon ways:  multiple Jacks in an engine, and remake more to get cards more than trashing coppers and estates.

Turn 10 I gained 4 gardens.  At this point I was a little worried my strategy wouldn't work out; I had only 25 cards or so in my deck, and my opponent was pretty set to get a province a turn.  In the end I'm able to get up to 41 cards though.
I really liked my turn 12 draw:
 (carstimon draws: 5 Jacks of All Trades.)
and I actually managed to play all 5.

15

Game Reports / sexy bishop deck

« on: July 29, 2012, 08:17:24 pm »

Folks, this is what you have fantasies about when you're introduced to bishop.  Tunnel/vault/bishop, with menagerie for draw.  Got into a rhythm of trashing 3 gold a turn right before the game ended.  May I direct your amazement to turns 14 and 15.  Being able to embargo provinces was a cherry on top.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/29/game-20120729-171256-d6eddec6.html

16

Game Reports / Is pirate ship dominant here? FV/oracle/golem.

« on: July 29, 2012, 03:24:09 pm »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/29/game-20120729-104210-ccac18c7.html

On this board:
-there's no decent virtual money (only fishing village and mandarin)
-There's no way to spam your deck with cheap action cards (No +buy etc)
-oracle helps pirate ship find treasures

I think pirate ship is unignorable.

I'd also like to discuss the following:  I think pirate ship doesn't work that well, and I'll try to explain why.  I don't just mean it's a weak card in 2p.  The problem I find is that the pirate ship tokens have too large of a step size.  In a game where you're going for provinces you will usually get up to around 4 before you need to start using it for the money.  I feel like this happening is just largely unaffected by how you play it. 

17

Game Reports / tactician/fg vs. tactician/goons/possession

« on: July 04, 2012, 06:37:50 pm »

I just played the following board:

fools gold
throne room, salvager
tactician, inn, cartographer
fairgrounds, goons
possession
Don't remember the last card, neither of us got one.

We both open tactician/fools gold.  tact/fg can be very fast, and salvager can help speed it up to fight an opponent who's going for a long game.  It's weak to possession though, because a possession on your tactician hand hurts a lot. 

My opponent did tact/fg.  I half-heartedly got fg, I think we split 6/4 just because I was lucky with my tactician.  Then I transitioned- I got a salvager and some throne rooms and a possession, and trashed my fools golds whenever.  I built a limping double tactician deck (using inn and cartographer to hit my second tactician) which usually hit a couple of goons and a possession. 

Discard attack (goons) and possession together is tricky; if your opponent knows a possession is coming they just discard good cards.  I don't think it's that bad though; if you don't possess they are left with a bad hand, and maybe you can throne room a possession.

My opponent resigned when there were 3 provinces left (4 were in his deck, 1 was in the trash) and I had 20 vp tokens.  I think he still had a good chance considering salvager.  But my double tactician deck was just reaching its peak I think.

I'd like to play this one again.  Very interesting interactions.  I think tactician/fg/salvager can beat what I did but I'm not srue.

18

Game Reports / thieved to oblivion

« on: June 30, 2012, 08:59:48 am »

Got thieved to death in this game.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/30/game-20120630-055722-6ee2c69a.html
Not sure what I could have done better.  More moat?

19

Game Reports / Tough board- possession, masquerade, IGG, tunnel/cart...

« on: June 25, 2012, 12:39:49 pm »

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120624-114119-8a25708f.html

Played this one against Eli_k (verikt) and we agreed neither of us did perfectly. 

I think the idea both of us had was masquerade, then forge.  Turn 7 I had totally forgotten about masquerade/possession, and I bought a province when I probably should've gotten a forge.  I decided to try something different, since Eli_k had the jump on me.  So I went IGG to dilute my deck down.  The other benefit to IGG under possession was that the +copper doesn't benefit the possessor.  Eli grabbed one province from me with masquerade and passed me a few curses (which I somehow got rid of).   I ended it buying the last duchy but lost by a point.

We mostly ignored cartographer/tunnel (Eli did it a little).  I think that if Eli had only gotten more stables and left his coppers with forge his possession engine would've killed me. 

Let me know what you think of this tough board.

P.S.  Masquerade breaks council room.  I'll try to remember of few key facts that are missing:
-When Eli_k starts possessing me we both have 1-2 masquerades; he had bought one and passed it to me, and I passed it back at some point. (Looking back, maybe I should've passed something else and trashed the masquerade!)
-Possession after Turn 21 Eli_K passes a province to himself.

20

Game Reports / I'm not sure whether this was a vineyards board

« on: June 05, 2012, 04:34:02 pm »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/05/game-20120605-132720-5b4b99d5.html

I did apologize for showboating in the end.

21

Game Reports / Three Pile with Copper

« on: March 11, 2012, 03:19:54 pm »

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120310-181723-0763fca5.html

The spice merchants made it possible.  It took me until turn 22 to have more points than 8 provinces, but then I was pretty set.  Because of the tributes I was of course pretty dependent on my opponent following a similar strategy.