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Dominion General Discussion / Test kingdom
« on: October 25, 2019, 02:34:29 pm »
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Dominion General Discussion / The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Hexes
« on: February 26, 2019, 03:41:13 am »Hexes
It has been 16 months since we were first introduced to Hexes in the Nocturne Previews, and it seems we are still far away from understanding the average impact they have on our games. I believe people, even smart people like us, are generally poor at evaluating the effects of rare, random events. Hexes certainly fall into this category. Any particular Hex shows up in a little over 1/3 of the games with Doom cards. That is not much data from which to form an opinion!Fortunately, markus (with the help of ceviri's Woodcutter tool) has gathered a ton of data from high-level Dominion matches online. He has data from nearly 7500 games with Hexes and has estimated the effect on win probability from receiving one more of a particular hex than your opponent. These data are available here on the sheet titled 'Gain Advantage'. Similar information can be seen on the stat charts he made here. What these data seem to tell us about Hexes contrasts pretty sharply with some of the rankings below.
Hexes can be received in a variety of ways: markus estimates 80% of Hexes come from attacks, 15% from Cursed Village gains and the remaining 5% from Leprechaun plays. The circumstances of receiving a Hex can influence how harmful it is. The effect of some Hexes is muted when received in combination with another. For others the effect is nearly invariant to game state.
I will generally discuss these Hexes from the perspective of the Receiving player.
 | #1 =0 Delusion Weighted Average: 94.2% ▲9.6pp / Unweighted Average: 93.0% / Median: 100.0% =0.0pp / Standard Deviation: 14.8% There is nothing else like this Attack in the game. While its strength depends on the card-pool (presence of Events, Projects, Night, alt-treasure cards diminish its impact), action-card denial in the early or middle stages of a game can seemingly put a player a full turn behind their opponent. It received 9/13 first place votes. Interestingly, this falls just middle-of-the-pack in markus’ stats. Is it possible that we remember those times Delusion kills us early but forget when it does next-to-nothing late? |
 | #2 ▲4 Poverty Weighted Average: 74.5% ▲7.8pp / Unweighted Average: 75.5% / Median: 81.8% ▲9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 19.3% This year’s biggest riser in the rankings, Poverty was voted first twice. Given that this is just a bog-standard Militia attack, I was a little surprised to see it this high. This can hurt with Leprechaun but is generally a Hex you hope to see when buying Cursed Village. The stats rate this as the 10th most effective Hex. Two Hexes in, and two major disagreements between the stats and the rankings. |
 | #3 ▼1 Locusts Weighted Average: 71.9% ▼7.0pp / Unweighted Average: 72.7% / Median: 72.7% ▼9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 15.1% There are plenty of Locusts horror stories: gaining a Cursed Village on an empty deck, an opponent hitting your Champion, or a Vampire getting turned into a Pirate Ship. Generally, the outcome isn’t that bad. What many might suggest as the most common nightmare case – getting a Province trashed – is typically a 3-VP deduction, an outcome on par with Misery. While some of the Hexes diminish when combined with other Hexes, Locusts hits no matter when or how you receive it, and arguably gets stronger with Haunting, Bad Omens and Greed. This ranked 5th in the stats. |
 | #4 ▼1 War Weighted Average: 68.4% ▼1.2pp / Unweighted Average: 70.6% / Median: 72.7% ▲9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 16.4% Similar to Locusts, War always “works”. It may find nothing, or it may find something you can convince yourself you didn’t want anyway, but it’s generally doing something harmful every time it is received. Not every Hex can say that. The stats also place War 4th. |
 | #5 ▼1 Plague Weighted Average: 67.2% ▲0.7pp / Unweighted Average: 63.6% / Median: 54.5% ▼9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 16.7% As Cursers go, this one is pretty mild, but even weak junking is harmful. As with War and Locusts, there is no minimizing the impact of this Hex while Curses remain in the supply. You could argue that this one hurts more to receive with Cursed Village than from an opponent’s attack. This Hex ranks 3rd in the stats. |
 | #6 ▼1 Envy Weighted Average: 57.6% ▼8.6pp / Unweighted Average: 62.2% / Median: 72.7% ▼9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 25.2% Like Delusion, Envy’s attack is unique. The average effect may not be very harmful, but it can completely derail end-game turns that rely on treasure payload. I had a game once where my opponent twice got Envy on what would have otherwise been double Province turns. Seems pretty bad, right? Let’s revisit the language I just used: “I had a game once…” This anecdotal experience has stuck with me, and as a result, I probably overrate Envy. So, what does the data tell us? It’s quite harsh: Envy ranks as the most impotent Hex. |
 | #7 ▲2 Misery Weighted Average: 44.2% ▲8.6pp / Unweighted Average: 44.1% / Median: 36.4% =0.0pp / Standard Deviation: 23.3% Getting two “anti-VP tokens” often feels inconsequential. After all, the card does absolutely nothing to directly affect your deck or your ability to build. But this Hex does something irreparably bad to your score each of the first two times it hits. Simply put, there is no escaping the damage it does, and it has a very real, measurable effect on the outcome of the game. This is the top-ranked Hex in the stats by a comfortable margin. |
 | #8 =0 Greed Weighted Average: 41.7% ▲4.2pp / Unweighted Average: 40.6% / Median: 45.5% ▲9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 18.1% Greed follows Plague’s theme of weak junking by handing out a slightly more palatable type of junk but putting it where you least want it: the top of your deck. How bad could that be? Well, the stats think it’s pretty bad: it ranks second only to Misery. Notably this puts it just above Plague. |
 | #9 ▼2 Haunting Weighted Average: 30.7% ▼12.1pp / Unweighted Average: 32.2% / Median: 27.3% ▼9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 15.8% This mini Ghost Ship attack feel less than half as harmful as a regular Ghost Ship, but that seems to be consistent with the power level of Hexes. It interacts with many of the other Hexes, so consider carefully what you top deck when you’re getting hit with multiple Hexes on a turn |
 | #10 =0 Bad Omens Weighted Average: 24.3% ▼2.5pp / Unweighted Average: 20.3% / Median: 9.1% ▼9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 21.7% This Hex is only occasionally harmful and can actually be very helpful in certain situations (such as triggering a shuffle between turns 1 and 2). The better your deck is, the less this one hurts, and even if you do get two Coppers on top, knowing that they’re there can be useful. Here we see general agreement between the voters and the stats, where it finished 11th. Two people voted it last. |
 | #11 =0 Fear Weighted Average: 23.6% ▲0.8pp / Unweighted Average: 23.8% / Median: 27.3% ▲9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 7.6% It’s easy to underrate this Hex or dismiss it as merely a Cutpurse. The difference is that this it scales with your deck. Getting hit with this late is comparable to a Raider attack, which isn’t nothing. It can fail to hit when combined with other discard Hexes (such as Poverty or Haunting). |
 | #12 =0 Famine Weighted Average: 1.6% ▼1.5pp / Unweighted Average: 1.4% / Median: 0.0% =0.0pp / Standard Deviation: 3.3% If there’s a Hex on this list that makes me question the stats, it’s this one. Almost unanimously picked as the weakest Hex (11/13 picked it last, the other two picked it 2nd-to-last), the effect of this Hex according to the data is on par with Delusion and Fear, but a step below Locusts. Perhaps this is another case of a Hex hitting every time, and therefore having a larger average effect than we tend to notice. |
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Dominion General Discussion / The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Boons
« on: February 26, 2019, 03:40:58 am »Boons
Ranking Boons is a tricky endeavor, because the When and the How matter. Do you rank them based on how likely you are to get a Druid/pop a Pixie if it has that Boon? Do you evaluate them when received from Tracker or Bard? Idol? Opponent’s Sacred Grove? How likely are you to track any particular Boon or ask about it in spec chat? I don’t think there is a “correct answer” here, but I tend to favor the Pixie/Druid approach.The list this year grossly follows the list from last year. If we break the list into four quartiles, the cards in each quartile are unchanged; however, the order within those quartiles has changed, and we are seeing a clearer separation into tiers of Boons.
In addition, I will be referencing the stats markus has compiled from games of high-level players online (available here). Using over 8700 games where each Boon is present, markus estimates the effect of receiving one more of that Boon than your opponent. Those results largely agree with what the voters said, with a couple notable exceptions.
 | #1 ▲1 The Swamp's Gift Weighted Average: 85.6% ▲1.7pp / Unweighted Average: 85.5% / Median: 90.9% ▲9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 14.4% The top three Boons are very close in the rankings, but for me (and the voters) this is the Boon that moves the needle the most. Popping a first-shuffle Pixie for two Wisps can provide a huge head start and I always take notice if Druid has Swamp’s Gift. Non-terminal draw is quite good, you know. Seeing it move to the top of the list, despite fewer first-place votes than the third-ranked Boon, makes me happy. Interestingly, the stats aren’t as favorable to these little flying Spirits: Swamp’s Gift ranks 6th in impact per extra Wisp gained. Maybe the low marginal benefit of the 3rd and 4th Wisp is dragging down the average gain advantage metric? |
 | #2 ▲1 The Earth's Gift Weighted Average: 84.4% ▲10.5pp / Unweighted Average: 81.8% / Median: 81.8% =0.0pp / Standard Deviation: 12.0% I was surprised to see this jump to rank 2, but hey, gains are good! Finding this with an early Blessed Village can provide a nice complementary engine piece. With a Pixie, this can add two components or something useful and a replacement Pixie. This Boon occasionally answers late-game prayers, providing a desperate player with a timely point or two. It certainly passes the “Boons you might track” test. It ranks just above Swamp’s gift in the stats. |
 | #3 ▼2 The Flame's Gift Weighted Average: 82.7% ▼12.0pp / Unweighted Average: 86.1% / Median: 90.9% =0.0pp / Standard Deviation: 17.5% Last year’s top Boon tumbles to number three, despite receiving more first place votes (6) than Swamp (4) or Earth (2). Trashing is good, yes, but weak and/or unpredictable trashing much less so. Getting Flame’s gift with a Pixie or Blessed Village early is great, of course. Flame on a Druid merely turns it into a mid-grade Trade Route. Nevertheless, trashing is trashing, and you’ll almost always be happy to see this Boon. Somewhat astonishingly, the stats have this ranked an 8th. Perhaps what this is really telling us is that excessive receipts of this Boon might be misguided or a sign of desperation. |
 | #4 ▲1 The Forest's Gift Weighted Average: 70.8% ▲8.3pp / Unweighted Average: 70.9% / Median: 72.7% ▲9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 21.3% Despite a weighted average over 14 percentage points behind Earth’s Gift, it has a lot in common with the second-ranked Boon: it can provide a late-game points swing and deserves to be tracked on a single-gain board. It suffers in that comparison from not always being as relevant early. Another intriguing difference from Earth’s Gift: this Boon received twice as many first-place votes. Maybe those voters are on to something: this is the top-ranked Boon in the stats. |
 | #5 ▼1 The River's Gift Weighted Average: 66.8% ▼1.5pp / Unweighted Average: 64.8% / Median: 63.6% ▼9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 15.5% River’s Gift is only a few percentage points behind Forest’s Gift but over 17 ahead of the next Boon. In fact, it’s the last Boon with a weighted score above 50%. It provides a little bit of Duration-like draw. Weird edge-cases aside, you’re never sad to see this one. The stats have this 4th, on par with Earth’s gift. |
 | #6 =0 The Field's Gift Weighted Average: 49.7% ▼8.2pp / Unweighted Average: 50.9% / Median: 54.5% =0.0pp / Standard Deviation: 23.9% Field’s Gift retains its spot in the ranking, but the gap between it and the fifth-ranked boon has widened from about 4.5 percentage points last year to 17 (as noted above). It can be a village if received at the right time and therefore might merit tracking in a desperate situation. It turns Druid into a Candlestick Maker variant. The stats sandwich this boon between Flame’s Gift and Swamp’s Gift. |
 | #7 =0 The Sun's Gift Weighted Average: 45.6% ▲1.6pp / Unweighted Average: 43.0% / Median: 45.5% =0.0pp / Standard Deviation: 15.7% At this point in the list I think it’s fair to ask how many people reading this could tell me, without looking, what Sun’s Gift does. And what does that tell us about this particular boon? It's unremarkable, occasionally useful and largely inoffensive. The stats seem to agree: it ranks 10th on that list. |
 | #8 =0 The Sea's Gift Weighted Average: 43.2% ▲9.7pp / Unweighted Average: 43.0% / Median: 45.5% ▲9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 12.2% The other drawing Boon, Sea’s Gift often feels inferior to its freshwater cousin. It can be awkward to receive it as part of a terminal action (e.g. with Druid, Tracker, Bard, own Sacred Grove) or with Idol because you might trigger a bad shuffle or draw something dead. Nevertheless, the stats rate it higher than River’s Gift. |
 | #9 =0 The Wind's Gift Weighted Average: 30.0% ▼2.9pp / Unweighted Average: 32.1% / Median: 27.3% ▼9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 17.8% In certain decks, if received at the right time, Wind’s Gift provides some useful sifting. When received at the wrong time, it can feel like a Hex: it might trigger a shuffle or even reduce hand size. I see you nodding. We’ve all been there. Now here’s shocker: the stats suggest this is the second strongest Boon on a per-receipt basis. Look, I’m just as skeptical as you are, but three of the top four Boons in the stats provide card draw, so maybe it’s not as crazy as it might seem. Its highest vote? One person voted it fifth. |
 | #10 ▲1 The Mountain's Gift Weighted Average: 20.7% ▲7.9pp / Unweighted Average: 17.0% / Median: 9.1% =0.0pp / Standard Deviation: 15.2% Mountain’s Gift has recovered a little from the backlash it got last year, where it finished dead last. This year it received three last-place votes, the second-most. I wonder where it would rank if the Silver gain was optional (I suspect a little higher); similarly, I wonder how different the gain rates would be (I suspect not that different). I guess people just don’t like having gross yellow cards foisted on them without their consent. The stats are slightly more favorable to Mountain’s Gift than the voters, ranking it 9th, just behind Flame’s Gift. |
 | #11 ▼1 The Sky's Gift Weighted Average: 17.5% ▼6.6pp / Unweighted Average: 20.6% / Median: 18.2% =0.0pp / Standard Deviation: 14.3% It’s rare for the trade offered by this Boon to be a good value. If it’s early, you may not want to add a stop card over adding a more effective piece; later in the game, the value of three cards in your hand will hopefully exceed that of adding a Gold. Nevertheless, if the stars align, this boon can be good. And hey, I finally have a mnemonic device to remember what this one does. |
 | #12 =0 The Moon's Gift Weighted Average: 2.9% ▼13.4pp / Unweighted Average: 4.2% / Median: 0.0% ▼9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 7.3% In another setting, if I called something “The Harbinger of Boons”, you might think that good things were about to happen. In this setting, we all know better. |
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Puzzles and Challenges / Maximum Wishes gained in a turn?
« on: August 13, 2018, 05:23:51 pm »
This question came up in a league match chat today. What are the maximum number of wishes you can gain in a turn?
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Puzzles and Challenges / Arbitrarily order a kingdom pile then return game to starting conditions?
« on: July 19, 2018, 01:53:44 pm »
I have no idea if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone wants to try:
The goal is to reorder a kingdom pile, such as interleaving a split pile, or sorting the Knights alphabetically, then return the game to its initial state (aside from that pile).
If it's not possible, how close can you get?
The goal is to reorder a kingdom pile, such as interleaving a split pile, or sorting the Knights alphabetically, then return the game to its initial state (aside from that pile).
If it's not possible, how close can you get?
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Dominion General Discussion / Fix the worst cards
« on: March 08, 2018, 11:30:40 am »
Based on the recent card rankings, below are the cards in the bottom 10% of their cost categories (I'm just guessing on the $3s, since those numbers weren't provided).
Your job is to suggest a fix for the card that:
A) Doesn't change its fundamental behavior
B) Would bump it out of the bottom 10%
C) is as small a change as possible
Your job is to suggest a fix for the card that:
A) Doesn't change its fundamental behavior
B) Would bump it out of the bottom 10%
C) is as small a change as possible
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Help! / Nocturnal Kingdom I struggled with
« on: January 03, 2018, 04:10:45 pm »
I lost this game when I originally played it; I tried to get too cute with Inn and Faithful Hound. Subsequently I played it several times against the bot and typically fared much worse.
How would you play it?
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Dominion General Discussion / More reliable: Hexes or Boons?
« on: January 02, 2018, 01:39:20 pm »
Are Hexes more reliably bad for your opponent(s) than Boons are reliably useful or good for you?
My initial impression was that Boons would be more reliable, but over the past few weeks, I have come to feel the opposite is true, at least relative to my expectations.
One reason for this perception might be that random Good Effects are hard to build around, but random Bad Effects are just as disruptive (or more disruptive) to an opponent than fixed attacks.
Thoughts?
My initial impression was that Boons would be more reliable, but over the past few weeks, I have come to feel the opposite is true, at least relative to my expectations.
One reason for this perception might be that random Good Effects are hard to build around, but random Bad Effects are just as disruptive (or more disruptive) to an opponent than fixed attacks.
Thoughts?
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Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Avoiding 3-pile wins -- is that a thing?
« on: December 18, 2017, 02:11:16 pm »
I recently played a game against someone who deserved to win and could have won with a 3-pile ending, but refused to take it. I won the next turn. I was stunned. This was not merely a case of not seeing the 3-pile. I asked about it in chat, and they suggested that they don't do 3-pile endings.
Is that a thing? Is there some subset of players who consider that a lesser victory?
Is that a thing? Is there some subset of players who consider that a lesser victory?
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Dominion General Discussion / Total number of paper games v. online games?
« on: November 30, 2017, 01:43:55 pm »
Question 1 (15 points):
Have there been more total paper games or online games of Dominion played, by anyone, anywhere?
(Show your work)
Have there been more total paper games or online games of Dominion played, by anyone, anywhere?
(Show your work)
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Help! / Why is this so hidden?
« on: November 10, 2017, 03:49:11 pm »
I've been spending a ton of time on f.ds over the past several weeks -- probably too much -- and this is the first time I've seen this little forum.
It seems like an interesting idea, but it's tucked well away from the higher traffic areas. What gives?
It seems like an interesting idea, but it's tucked well away from the higher traffic areas. What gives?
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Dominion: Nocturne Previews / What did we get wrong before?
« on: November 03, 2017, 06:21:23 pm »
Now that we have a lot of first impressions of Nocturne and a bit of time to kill before it's fully released, I was wondering what were some of the worst takes in previous sets after previews or early play?
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Dominion Articles / Etiquette in Dominion Online
« on: October 31, 2017, 01:40:59 am »
(After threatening to do so several times, I finally wrote down some of my thoughts on this. Let me know what you think. Feedback is appreciated).
Years ago, in a game of Carcassonne on Xbox Live, I played a city tile with a follower on it near my human opponent’s unfinished city. This is a standard move in Carcassonne – indeed it’s the whole basis of the game. Apparently he didn’t like that. In fact, he was so upset he unleashed the most profane, vulgar tirade I had ever heard directed at another human being. Over a game of Carcassonne. I was shocked, stunned. I subsequently muted all people who weren't on my friends list.
Online gaming doesn’t have to be that way. It can be as civil and courteous as face-to-face gaming1. With feedback from others, I’ve compiled here a list of dos and don’ts to hopefully help make Dominion Online a pleasant experience for all. I assume a 2-player game. Most of them apply equally well to multiplayer games.
Do Assume good faith. You've come to play a game of Dominion, and you're hoping to have a good time. In the absence of other evidence, assume that your opponent is in the same position.
Do say something at the start of the game. This doesn’t need to be a lengthy introduction, just a brief gesture that acknowledges that you are playing against another human. You can say ‘hi’, ‘gl hf’ (good luck, have fun!) or even offer an emoji handshake 🤝.
Don’t be offended if your opponent says nothing. Some people are playing on clients that don’t allow them to easily type in the chat window. Some have a limited vocabulary in your language. It’s also true that some people simply don’t like saying ‘hi’ to other people. Maybe they’re afraid of a chatty game?
Don’t chat your opponent to death if they don’t respond. Some people like chatty games, some people don’t. Try to figure this out and act accordingly.
Do let your opponent know if you need to step away for a moment. A simple ‘brb’ (‘be right back’) is almost universally understood.
Don’t try to change how quickly your opponent plays. If they are playing slowly in a deliberate attempt to force you to resign (‘slow-rolling’) then you should resign, blacklist and report them. If they are playing at a natural pace that is slower than you’d like, it’s impolite to hector them.
Do blacklist players you would rather not play against again.
Don’t whine about luck. A simple ‘ugh’ every now and then is certainly forgivable but claiming that your opponent is only winning because of unbelievable luck is not very respectful and probably a sign you should take a break.
Do acknowledge your opponent’s bad luck and your own good luck. You pulled Locusts and trashed their Overlord? “Ouch. Sorry. That’s harsh.” Be humble. Sometimes you are winning because of your unbelievable luck.
Do acknowledge the awesome or interesting things your opponent does. “Wow, good call on the second Raze!” or “That’s the best Pixie engine I’ve ever seen!” Again, not everyone likes a chatty game, but it’s a rare person that doesn’t like a compliment.
Do acknowledge your opponent at the end of the game, including when you resign. A common expression here is ‘gg’ – shorthand for ‘good game2.’ If you think your opponent played particularly well, a common shorthand is ‘wp’ for ‘well-played’.
Don’t say ‘gg’ before the end of the game unless you are going to resign immediately. In some gaming circles, ‘gg’ is interpreted as, “You’ve got this. I concede.” If you don’t follow a ‘gg’ with a resignation, your opponents may see it as taunting, poor sportsmanship, or a meta-gaming tactic3.
Do end the game quickly if you have the win in hand. Of course, you should make sure you have the win, but needlessly prolonging your turn to squeeze out a few more points is not very sporting.
1Because no one ever gets mad in person, right?
2Nothing is more awkward than complaining all game, pseudo-conceding and then winning. With your IRL gaming friends this might be an endearing foible (at least I hope so); outside the context of friendship it’s just annoying.
3There is a lot of debate about whether the winner should say ‘gg’ first, or if that is considered a form of poor sportsmanship or even taunting. Unfortunately, this can lead to a silent standoff at the end of the game where neither player says anything. Personally, I’d rather something be said, even if there’s a small chance of it being misinterpreted.
Dominion Online Etiquette
or How to Not be Mad Online
Years ago, in a game of Carcassonne on Xbox Live, I played a city tile with a follower on it near my human opponent’s unfinished city. This is a standard move in Carcassonne – indeed it’s the whole basis of the game. Apparently he didn’t like that. In fact, he was so upset he unleashed the most profane, vulgar tirade I had ever heard directed at another human being. Over a game of Carcassonne. I was shocked, stunned. I subsequently muted all people who weren't on my friends list.
Online gaming doesn’t have to be that way. It can be as civil and courteous as face-to-face gaming1. With feedback from others, I’ve compiled here a list of dos and don’ts to hopefully help make Dominion Online a pleasant experience for all. I assume a 2-player game. Most of them apply equally well to multiplayer games.
Do Assume good faith. You've come to play a game of Dominion, and you're hoping to have a good time. In the absence of other evidence, assume that your opponent is in the same position.
Do say something at the start of the game. This doesn’t need to be a lengthy introduction, just a brief gesture that acknowledges that you are playing against another human. You can say ‘hi’, ‘gl hf’ (good luck, have fun!) or even offer an emoji handshake 🤝.
Don’t be offended if your opponent says nothing. Some people are playing on clients that don’t allow them to easily type in the chat window. Some have a limited vocabulary in your language. It’s also true that some people simply don’t like saying ‘hi’ to other people. Maybe they’re afraid of a chatty game?
Don’t chat your opponent to death if they don’t respond. Some people like chatty games, some people don’t. Try to figure this out and act accordingly.
Do let your opponent know if you need to step away for a moment. A simple ‘brb’ (‘be right back’) is almost universally understood.
Don’t try to change how quickly your opponent plays. If they are playing slowly in a deliberate attempt to force you to resign (‘slow-rolling’) then you should resign, blacklist and report them. If they are playing at a natural pace that is slower than you’d like, it’s impolite to hector them.
Do blacklist players you would rather not play against again.
Don’t whine about luck. A simple ‘ugh’ every now and then is certainly forgivable but claiming that your opponent is only winning because of unbelievable luck is not very respectful and probably a sign you should take a break.
Do acknowledge your opponent’s bad luck and your own good luck. You pulled Locusts and trashed their Overlord? “Ouch. Sorry. That’s harsh.” Be humble. Sometimes you are winning because of your unbelievable luck.
Do acknowledge the awesome or interesting things your opponent does. “Wow, good call on the second Raze!” or “That’s the best Pixie engine I’ve ever seen!” Again, not everyone likes a chatty game, but it’s a rare person that doesn’t like a compliment.
Do acknowledge your opponent at the end of the game, including when you resign. A common expression here is ‘gg’ – shorthand for ‘good game2.’ If you think your opponent played particularly well, a common shorthand is ‘wp’ for ‘well-played’.
Don’t say ‘gg’ before the end of the game unless you are going to resign immediately. In some gaming circles, ‘gg’ is interpreted as, “You’ve got this. I concede.” If you don’t follow a ‘gg’ with a resignation, your opponents may see it as taunting, poor sportsmanship, or a meta-gaming tactic3.
Do end the game quickly if you have the win in hand. Of course, you should make sure you have the win, but needlessly prolonging your turn to squeeze out a few more points is not very sporting.
1Because no one ever gets mad in person, right?
2Nothing is more awkward than complaining all game, pseudo-conceding and then winning. With your IRL gaming friends this might be an endearing foible (at least I hope so); outside the context of friendship it’s just annoying.
3There is a lot of debate about whether the winner should say ‘gg’ first, or if that is considered a form of poor sportsmanship or even taunting. Unfortunately, this can lead to a silent standoff at the end of the game where neither player says anything. Personally, I’d rather something be said, even if there’s a small chance of it being misinterpreted.
14
Dominion General Discussion / How carefully/slowly do you play?
« on: October 19, 2017, 01:38:05 pm »
I've just recently watched some streamed matches for the first time (some of Dan's Online Championship ones) and one thing has struck me:
He plays very deliberately. Now, part of this may be because he is narrating his actions and his decision-making process, but perhaps there's some benefit to that?
I have had this notion that there's an association between being a great player and playing fast, but I increasingly suspect that notion is misguided.
What do you think?
What speed do you play?
He plays very deliberately. Now, part of this may be because he is narrating his actions and his decision-making process, but perhaps there's some benefit to that?
I have had this notion that there's an association between being a great player and playing fast, but I increasingly suspect that notion is misguided.
What do you think?
What speed do you play?
15
Dominion General Discussion / Games with contested/mirrored Hermit/Market Square?
« on: October 05, 2017, 03:03:57 pm »
I don't think I've ever played in a Hermit/MS game other than solo training sessions.
So what happens when it is contested or mirrored? Obviously, both players can't get all the cards they need to pull it off. Does anyone have some game IDs where this combo has been contested or mirrored?
So what happens when it is contested or mirrored? Obviously, both players can't get all the cards they need to pull it off. Does anyone have some game IDs where this combo has been contested or mirrored?
16
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Thoughts on Etiquette Blog Article?
« on: September 25, 2017, 04:45:18 pm »
I floated the idea of writing an article for the blog about Dominion Online etiquette and wanted to revisit it here.
Here are some possible points I'm considering covering:
1) Pre-game greetings; what to say, how to respond. Is it necessary? Does anyone care?
2) Chat behavior & meta-gaming. Is there an appropriate way to complain about luck? How does one respond to such complaints?
3) How far back can one reasonably request Undo? How does one deal with Undo requests?
4) Resigning, quitting and ending the game. When should one resign? When should one NOT resign? Is running up the score acceptable? Am I obligated to pile-out?
5) 'gg' and post-game behavior (including offers to rematch, etc.).
With that in mind, my questions are:
1) Is this a worthwhile endeavor? If so, is the blog the right place for it, given that this would be primarily about online etiquette? Would this be better suited to the ShIt forum?
2) If so, my first inclination was to workshop and research the article here. Is this the best place to research it? Should I create an alt-account and solicit opinions in ranked games?
3) Should the article be descriptive or prescriptive? Is it enough to try to cover the current etiquette landscape and present varying perspectives on each of the items listed above? Or should it (with well-researched input from the f.ds community) be an attempt to shape online etiquette? Is it naïve to think this community could try to establish its own set of standards? To what degree is that already happening?
Here are some possible points I'm considering covering:
1) Pre-game greetings; what to say, how to respond. Is it necessary? Does anyone care?
2) Chat behavior & meta-gaming. Is there an appropriate way to complain about luck? How does one respond to such complaints?
3) How far back can one reasonably request Undo? How does one deal with Undo requests?
4) Resigning, quitting and ending the game. When should one resign? When should one NOT resign? Is running up the score acceptable? Am I obligated to pile-out?
5) 'gg' and post-game behavior (including offers to rematch, etc.).
With that in mind, my questions are:
1) Is this a worthwhile endeavor? If so, is the blog the right place for it, given that this would be primarily about online etiquette? Would this be better suited to the ShIt forum?
2) If so, my first inclination was to workshop and research the article here. Is this the best place to research it? Should I create an alt-account and solicit opinions in ranked games?
3) Should the article be descriptive or prescriptive? Is it enough to try to cover the current etiquette landscape and present varying perspectives on each of the items listed above? Or should it (with well-researched input from the f.ds community) be an attempt to shape online etiquette? Is it naïve to think this community could try to establish its own set of standards? To what degree is that already happening?
17
Dominion General Discussion / Dominion Rejects: Kingdom of Removed Cards
« on: September 15, 2017, 01:58:15 pm »
Similar to this thread, here is a kingdom featuring both sets of the first 5 cards cut from 1st edition Base and Intrigue. What would you do here?
18
Dominion General Discussion / Brain Tricks: Confusing One Card for Another
« on: September 07, 2017, 11:48:22 am »
Last night I played a game where I confused Noble Brigand with Nomad Camp. I purchased what I thought was a Nomad Camp; in fact, I was sure I had purchased a Nomad Camp up until I played it and didn't see the extra buy.
Does this happen to anyone else?
It's not the first time something like this has happened to me (I have confused Orchard/Museum, Plan/Ferry), but it's maybe the most interesting case, given there are several superficial similarities between the two cards:
Name pattern (N____ ____)
Cost
On gain/on buy effect
I rarely buy either one
Hinterlands
Looking at these secondary characteristics (and ignoring the name and art) seems like a really weird way for my brain to come to the conclusion that this was Nomad Camp.
Does this happen to anyone else?
It's not the first time something like this has happened to me (I have confused Orchard/Museum, Plan/Ferry), but it's maybe the most interesting case, given there are several superficial similarities between the two cards:
Name pattern (N____ ____)
Cost
On gain/on buy effect
I rarely buy either one
Hinterlands
Looking at these secondary characteristics (and ignoring the name and art) seems like a really weird way for my brain to come to the conclusion that this was Nomad Camp.
19
Dominion General Discussion / Why do people wish their opponent "good luck?"
« on: August 31, 2017, 11:06:29 am »
At the risk of being overly literal here, I have always found it odd that some people wish their opponent 'good luck' in any game -- but especially in Dominion.
While I suspect it's usually shorthand for "Hello, let's enjoy this game together!", if it's taken at face value it makes very little sense. In a competitive game you hope to win, why would you wish that your opponent is lucky? Are you wishing for the absence of really bad luck?
A more cynical interpretation is that it's a form of taunting or gamesmanship, as in "Good luck, you're going to need it!" In virtually any other competition I can think of, if one opponent said "good luck!" to the other before the match, it would most likely be interpreted this way.
Does anyone else find this odd?
While I suspect it's usually shorthand for "Hello, let's enjoy this game together!", if it's taken at face value it makes very little sense. In a competitive game you hope to win, why would you wish that your opponent is lucky? Are you wishing for the absence of really bad luck?
A more cynical interpretation is that it's a form of taunting or gamesmanship, as in "Good luck, you're going to need it!" In virtually any other competition I can think of, if one opponent said "good luck!" to the other before the match, it would most likely be interpreted this way.
Does anyone else find this odd?
20
Dominion General Discussion / Heirloom Speculation
« on: August 10, 2017, 07:04:26 pm »
I've seen a few ideas thrown around for what these could be in various threads, but I thought it might be nice to have one spot for them.
What we know: they replace your starting Coppers. That's it.
Do we think they will all be treasures? Or will they follow the pattern of Shelters and be a mixture of card types? How many uniquely named Heirlooms will there be?
Assuming they are treasures, could we have some worth $0 and some worth $2?
What will their costs be?
Could they be Victory/Treasure cards with a set collection bonus? I.e. if you keep the set of 7 until the end of the game, it's worth X points. How big would X need to be to forego trashing? Sort of like Fountain except you can't re-acquire them.
What we know: they replace your starting Coppers. That's it.
Do we think they will all be treasures? Or will they follow the pattern of Shelters and be a mixture of card types? How many uniquely named Heirlooms will there be?
Assuming they are treasures, could we have some worth $0 and some worth $2?
What will their costs be?
Could they be Victory/Treasure cards with a set collection bonus? I.e. if you keep the set of 7 until the end of the game, it's worth X points. How big would X need to be to forego trashing? Sort of like Fountain except you can't re-acquire them.
21
Dominion General Discussion / Advice for Avoiding Result-Based Evaluation?
« on: May 30, 2017, 09:27:28 pm »
(I'm sure this has been discussed before, so I would welcome any links to articles/threads)
It seems natural to judge how well you are playing based on your win-loss record. Over many, many games this is a fine estimate, but I imagine it frequently happens that:
1) you play worse than your opponent but win due to good fortune
2) you play better than your opponent but lose due to misfortune
I suspect that many of us underestimate how often (1) happens and overestimate how often (2) happens.
In the spirit of improving my level of play, what are some practical tips for critically evaluating how well I played, regardless of outcome?
It seems natural to judge how well you are playing based on your win-loss record. Over many, many games this is a fine estimate, but I imagine it frequently happens that:
1) you play worse than your opponent but win due to good fortune
2) you play better than your opponent but lose due to misfortune
I suspect that many of us underestimate how often (1) happens and overestimate how often (2) happens.
In the spirit of improving my level of play, what are some practical tips for critically evaluating how well I played, regardless of outcome?
22
Goko Dominion Online / Questions re: Playing among closed circle of friends
« on: October 22, 2015, 12:55:36 pm »
Does anyone have any experience playing online among a fixed circle of friends? Does matchmaking easily support this?
Let's say we all decide that Thursday night is Dominion night. Can we easily play a string of games together for a couple hours?
Can we easily see how we've fared against one another?
What is the best way to distribute the cost of buying all the sets among us?
Let's say we all decide that Thursday night is Dominion night. Can we easily play a string of games together for a couple hours?
Can we easily see how we've fared against one another?
What is the best way to distribute the cost of buying all the sets among us?
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