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Topics - Loschmidt

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1
Simulation / Capital BM
« on: July 12, 2016, 02:22:22 am »
Prediction - Capital BM will rock, easily better than Smithy BM.

Experiment - will have to wait until I get home.....

2
Variants and Fan Cards / Make an attack that dishes out Debt
« on: July 08, 2016, 08:56:08 pm »
The challenge is to make an attack that dishes out debt someone but isn't boring or opressive or too similar to existing cards.

I'll take care of the obvious ones.

------------------
Cost: ~$5
"Some mild benefit to the player"
"Each other player with no debt tokens takes 1D"
------------------
Positives
- you can defend yourself from this attack by already being in debt, i think that's a cute interaction
- pretty simple card
- could be interesting depending on the bonus is gives to the player
Critcisms
- it is just a bridge troll variant/cutpurse that stays relevant late game
Variants
- could be made more powerful/stackable "each other player with fewer than 2/3/4 debt tokens takes 1D" (although that is probably oppressive)

I'll call this next one Debt Collector:
------------------
Cost: ~$5
*A very minor benefit to the player*
Each other player with at least 1 debt token gains a Ruins.
If they did not gain a ruins they take 1 debt token.
------------------
Positives
-Play multiple to bury your opponents under ruins. It is nice to have another ruins attack, a conditional ruiner seems good. Like a torturer variant where you really need to play multiple before you start handing out the crap.
-Also thematic! The debt collectors are wrecking your shit because you're behind on payments
-Heavily discourages anyone going into debt (the compliment to the previous attack!)
-Combos nicely with the previous attack!
-Needs support and setup to be really mean
Criticisms
-occasionally oppressive?
-slow game when everyone is cash poor and filled with ruins? (personally I like the odd slow game thrown into my dominion mix)

Thoughts? I want to see everyone else's take on the debt-firing attack. There has to be a good one out there somewhere

3
Dominion General Discussion / Stonemason/Hamlet/Poorhouse
« on: July 05, 2016, 02:38:57 am »
With Hamlet and Poorhouse on the board a standard 4/3 opening can net you 2 Stonemasons, 2 Poorhouses and 2 Hamlets. Seems like a solid start to an engine.

Thoughts?

4
Dominion General Discussion / The sublte effects of Shelters
« on: September 07, 2012, 12:11:42 am »
Now we've had a bit of a chance to play with them, lets list the effects that Shelters have on play and stategy. I think we can all agree they're subtle, but important nonetheless.

I'll start off with some of the more obvious ones.

You can have slightly more terminals than you otherwise would.

Thanks to necropolis of course. This is less important than I first thought it would be, but I've still seen it have a significant effect on people decks. A friend of mine built a cantrip engine that was able to play two terminals to cap it off using necropolis. Never needing to stop to buy a village is helpful. One way to think about necropolis is as a shanty town with the opportunity cost removed.

You get one free green buy.

From a deck quality perspective of course. This thread has convinced me that the optimal play is to wait to trash your hovel until you were greening anyway.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4508.0

Previously Iíd been trashing it for an early estate if I was going to pass on a $2 anyway. Silly me.

Heavy trashing doesnít put you at a 3 point disadvantage.

Classically if Alberto chapels into an engine and Britt goes for a BM+ strategy with no trashing and itís a close game, Britt has the edge. If the provinces are split Alberto needs a Duchy to break even. This means Britt can take the penultimate province without worry. However with shelters early heavy trashing has no effect on your score, just on your deck quality.

This is something I only just realised, and I think is more interesting than the first two.

Thoughts?

5
Dominion General Discussion / Province Theft
« on: September 04, 2012, 11:30:00 pm »
--Province Theft--

Stealing Provinces directly from another playerís deck is the ultimate insult in Dominion (in the absence of Colonies obviously). Dark Ages has finally given us a way to pull this off (aside from Masquerade shenanigans of course).

Highway/Sabotuer/Grave Robber is the most effective way to pull this off, but it isn't your only option. Lets go through all of the components of this attack/combo too see all of the options; it turns out there is a reasonable degree of flexibility in the required kingdoms.

--Components--

Trash Retrieval:

This is the key card. Trashing enemy provinces has been possible since Intrigue, but getting them out of the trash is a more recent possibility.
-Rogue: Rogueís are ideal as they play double duty as a Trashing Attack also.
-Grave Robber: Grave Robber is a fine substitute and the remodel ability may help you set up your engine.

Price Reduction:

This is also a required component. None of the Trash Retrieval cards are capable of getting Provinces from the trash without help.
-Highway: We want at least a $2 reduction but ideally a $5 reduction. Highways being cantrips will make this easier to pull off.
-Bridge: Technically possible but harder to pull off in multiples than Highways. For Masochists.
-Princess: Again strictly possible but the difficulties are numerous with this, even just in getting one. For extreme masochists.

Trashing Attack:

Now we just need to get your opponentís Provinces into the Trash. We have a few options here.
-Saboteur: This is easily the best option. In the absence of $7 kingdom cards a $4 price reduction makes your Saboteurs into Province-selective missiles. $5 reduction means that only pesky Peddlers will get in the way. The only downside is that your opponent can get a Duchy in recompense.
For all of the remaining attack to be at all reliable as Province hunters they will need to be either spammed, or have Deck Inspection assistance (see later)
-Rogue: A good option because it doubles as a Trash Retrieval card.
-Knight: A fine option. Remember that the danger of your opponentís Knights neutralising your Knights can be removed with enough Price Reduction.
-Swindler:  A more difficult option. If you Swindle your opponentís Provinces they receive another copy. Your time building this super complex engine would have been better spent just buying that Province. The way to neutralise this is to play at least $8 of Price Reduction. This allows you to Swindle your opponents Provinces into Curses. However at this level of Price Reduction Provinces will be too cheap to retrieve from the Trash. You either need to Trash and Retrieve on alternating turns, or Retrieve a Province early in your Turn (when the price reduction is between $2 and $5, i.e. 2 to 5 highways in play) and then continue to reduce the price to -$8 before playing your Swindlers.

Deck Inspection Attack:

This is not a strict requirement (and completely unnecessary if you have a Saboteur) but will help you reliably hit your opponents Provinces, which you need to do to make this engine worthwhile.
-Spy: As a cantrip it is easy to play in multiples. Certainly wont hurt your deck.
-Oracle: Hits more cards, but as terminal it's harder to spam. It does draw card however so if you have the actions spare it would be a good idea.
-Scrying Pool: The extreme action drawing ability makes this rather helpful.

Village:

Straightforward and common requirement. Throne Room and Kings Court are technical substitutes if youíre one of the aforementioned masochists.

Further Thoughts:

I could have just said Highway/Sab/GR seems like a nice combo, as that is my far the most functional way to attempt this. But the more I thought about it the more I realised that there were multiple ways to pull of this attack. That is the beauty of Dominion I suppose, so much potential and flexibility.

This will take a long time to setup of course, but thatís okay because want your opponents to already have Provinces when you finally set it up, so you have time. And each successful Sabotuered and Grave Robbed Province is a 9 point swing in your favour. 12 points if you can pull it off with one of the other trashing attacks.

If they have more of the Highways/other good cards than youíd like you can of course steal or just trash those to slow them down.

Squire seems like an ideal support card for this setup as it is a Village that GR can turn into a Saboteur and a Highway.

This works with Colonies of course too. You need at least $5 of price reduction to get them out of the Trash.  Also this combo may be more of a worthwhile pursuit in longer higher scoring Colony games; nabbing a Colony is a 14 point swing to you.

I suppose I should mention that I havenít even tried to pull this off yet. It hasnít come up on any board Iíve played yet. Iím tempted to spike the required cards into a game with my housemates tonight. But i donít want to be that guy :P

Let me know if you guys succeed or even attempt this on any board where it seems possible!

TLDR: Highway/Saboteur/Grave Robber can steal Provinces from your opponent!

6
Dominion General Discussion / Alchemy and Dark Ages
« on: September 03, 2012, 11:41:20 pm »
Alchemy has always been my least favourite expansion, which is not to say that I don't actually like it. Dominion expansions are just of very high quality and Alchemy merely grabbed me the least. But there are a number of Alchemy/DA combos that are really making enjoy Alchemy games more.

Vineyards/Ruins

Vineyards is such a nice passive counter to Ruins. Playing a ruined-vineyards deck is much closer to playing Gardens deck than your average Vineyards deck and I love playing bloated decks. The only problem with having such a ruined deck is actually finding your Potions and Armory provided the solution. I used my Armories to top-deck Potions, each one guaranteeing a Vineyards next turn.

Counterfeit/Potion

This combo fixes two of the common Alchemy deck problems; 1) getting those powerful Potion-cost cards quickly enough, and 2) having a dead Potion in your deck after you've stopped ramping.

Apprentice/Feodum

I've always love Apprentice, I mean it is just such a hands down fantastic card. But anyway this combo is a like the love child of Apprentice and Trader. So much fun.


7
Dominion General Discussion / The Red Tape Pin
« on: August 27, 2012, 09:46:54 pm »
So I've got a challenge. Sustain the Red Tape Pin (RTP) for as long as possible. I define this as playing 5 Beaurocrats every turn.

Now I realise that this isn't really a pin unless your opponent is playing BM with actions that don't draw at all (even Cantrips will ruin it), and even then is only a hard pin once they've started greening. There are also a boatload of counters, (Scheme being a very effective one as I discovered) but that's not the point, its about the challenge :)

This idea always appealed to me because I like engines that mutate and have to deal with inputs and outputs. If you want to engine to specifically deal with throwing 5 silvers into it every turn it's gonna need to have a way of burning them up.

Banned Cards: Watchtower

It occurs to me that the easiest way would be to make a fairly compact draw deck, TR/KC your Beaurocrats and just Watchtower the incoming silver. But I don't have Prosperity at home and so you also have to come up with another way :P

I tried it in a match against my housemates last night and had a lot more trouble than imagined. I thought a nice Spice Merchant/Stables combo would burn through the Silver nicely and it was going fine, but I had no where near enough Stables and burnt through my silver too quickly. I then completely emptied the Silver pile and my deck just stopped, it needed that fuel pretty badly. I think this combo would work better if I tried it again, but i don't think my housemates would take too kindly to that :P While I never successfully pinned any of them, it slowed the game down a lot. I, of course, lost.

Now i'm far from the most sophisticated engine builder around so I want to see what you guys think of this. How would you successfully play 5 beaurocrats every turn reliably. Bonus points for then also winning the game :P

8
Dark Ages Previews / Cards that DA makes fun again
« on: August 20, 2012, 11:49:56 pm »
We've all talked about cards that recieve a power boost from DA, but I'm always more interested in fun than just winning. So what old cards are you excited about trying with DA just for the fun of it?

I always feel kind of a dick building a Saboteur deck if the only purpose is to hurt my opponents, but with Rogue/Grave Robber interactions it is also constructive. Similarly my housemates might grumble less about Swindler openings when they see the interesting Forager interactions. I love double type cards so its good to see something care about types again, Ironmonger will mean i'll be happy to see Great Hall, Nobles and Harem again.

Wait a minute I can Rebuild Feodums into Harems and get 3 silvers for my trouble?!? Hot damn!

9
Dark Ages Previews / Secret history?
« on: August 17, 2012, 04:59:49 am »
Do we know when Donald will put it up?

10
Dark Ages Previews / Dark Ages is the most thematic expansion?
« on: August 17, 2012, 02:43:58 am »
Hermits go mad in the woods. Rats eat everything and breed unstoppably. Urchins live the hard life and grow up to be toughened mercenaries. Knights duel to the death. Mauraders ruin your opposing kingdoms and bring back spoils.

It's all a lot more thematically vivid that usual :D

11
Dark Ages Previews / Is Scavenger the Chancellor we've always wanted?
« on: August 16, 2012, 11:39:46 pm »
Back in the day, when we didn't even have expansions, all the Johnnies out there took on Chancellor as a personal challenge. In fact this article is Drew Hardin trying really hard to justify Chancellor:

http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/01/28/guest-article-chancellor/

We were determined to use it to make deck variance work to our advantage. And sometimes it did. I mean, when your Chancellor/Silver collide on turn 3 to allow for a turn 4 Witch play, BAM! Thats why you're a Johnny.

Anyway, Scavenger gives Chancellor a top-decking buff. Yeehaa! Now I want to use Scavenger to see if I can keep my deck quality consistenly better than my discard, in the way we always wanted Chancellor to let us. If your deck it worse than your discard, reshuffle that baby. If not top deck something nice and keep going. Use sifters to assist.

Now I know that i can pull this off easily enough, but I wonder. Will it make a difference?

12
While musing on the differences between Rats and Upgrade I have developed a simple system of classifying the differences between all of the types of Trashers, Gainers and Remodelers. This is not a study of the differences between plain Trashers and Trash for Benefit cards, but merely an attempt to classify cards based on the net add/subtract of cards to your deck.

Disclaimer: I keep editing this as new ideas come to me/are helpfully pointed out :)

I propose a 6 class system; Trashers (<), Remodelers (=), Gainers (>), Upgraders (≤), Jacks (≥), Developers (Ī). The symbol represents the cards net effect on your deck size after you play it.

(For clarification I'm only considering the effect on the single action as you play it, not your entire turn. Also if the card offers you a choice between actions then each action requires a different classification.)

Trashers (<)

Playing these cards will make your deck smaller, regardless of what cards you trash or what other kingdom cards are present

I count 14 pure Trashers in the game, 15 if you count Mint's on buy effect. I won't list them, you all know what they are. But I'll talk about ones I found interesting once I classified them all.

Trading Post

It seems mad that i never really noticed before, but Trading Post leaves you with 1 less card in your deck. This is why it is so much faster than Mine.

Moneylender Variants

By my strict definitions these are all Trashers, but Moneylender, Salvager, Trade Route and Spice Merchant all provide you with cash (and the latter three a +buy), so they do leer suggestively at better cards you can buy to replace the trashed ones and are psuedo-remodelers in my mind.

Remodelers (=)

Playing these cards will neither make your deck smaller or larger, regardless of what cards you trash or what other kingdom cards are present

I only count 6 of these. Remodel, Feast, Mine, Expand, Rats and the first option on Grave Robber. I find it interesting that there are less of these than I imagined.

Rats

It was the realisation that Rats was in fact a net nuetral remodel variant that led me to create these classifications. While I understand that these are exactly the same for some reason it made a big difference in my head to think of Rats as; "remodelling any card into a Rats" instead of "trash a card, gain a Rats".

Transmute

Now some of you are waiting to point out that Transmute falls into this category, and on the most part it does, however it moves over to the ≤ category on the trashing curses loophole.

Gainers (>)

Playing these cards will make your deck larger, regardless of what cards you trash or what other kingdom cards are present

I count 16 in this category, not including either Border Village or Duchess who both theoretically gain you themselves.

A very straightforward category, there's nothing particularly interesting here except the realisation that Treasure Map is the most complex (at least in getting it to work) gainer to date.

Attacks

As a point of interest there are now also attacks with gaining benefits. Beaurocrat, Jester and Pillage. 

Upgraders (≤)

Playing these cards have the potential to make your deck smaller or to keep it the same size depending on what cards you trash or what other kingdom cards are present

Upgrade, Remake, Transmute and Farmland's on buy effect.

Named after the first one I thought of, Upgrade. These are more general than remodelers in that they always trash a card and have the capacity of gaining you a card but not always. For example in the absence of Poor House you can trash coppers/curses with Upgrade/Remake. This is of course a strength and not a weakness.

Jacks (≥)

Playing these cards have the potential to make your deck larger or to keep it the same size depending on what cards you trash or what other kingdom cards are present

If we needed any more evidence that JoaT was special, it turns out that until very recently he was the only card in this category. The new one is Hermit.

These two always gain you something, but optionally let you trash. Given how powerful Jack turned out to be I'm curious about Hermit now. While it doesn't have the drawing power of Jack it has a better trashing capacity and a more general gaining ability. And it can go mad.

Developers (Ī)

Playing these cards have the potential to make your deck smaller, or larger, or to keep it the same size depending on what cards you trash or what other kingdom cards are present

Forge, Develop, Trader.

The most general class of cards these ones can be net negative/positive or completely neutral depending on how you play them.

Forge doesn't really belong here because its usually used as a super-trasher and its gaining effect is a bit of a loop-hole. Trash no cards, gain a copper.

Trader doesn't really belong here either because it usually is used as a super-gainer, helping you megadose on silvers.

Develop is the only one that really sits here, and its probably why it is one of the more difficult cards to play correctly. Playing it heavily depends on what card you trash and on what cards are present in the kingdom. You might start out trashing your coppers (net negative), or remodelling your estates into silvers (net neutral), but then you start gaining and top-decking weird combinations (net positive). This provides the largest range of potential options of all Trash for Benefit cards.

Conclusions

To be honest I'm still thinking this over, but apart from the things I've mentioned above there is one other thing I've noticed; while there are cards that let you trash multiple cards, and cards that let you gain multiple cards, there are no cards that do both. There isn't a trash x cards, gain x cards card for example. Edit: I was totally wrong Treasure Map and Remake are counterexamples there.

Rights, that's all I've got for the moment. Please comment on how much you love/hate this :D

13
Dark Ages Previews / Spoils Gainers
« on: August 10, 2012, 12:11:26 am »
So Pillage nets you a Spoils. DXV admitted that there are two other cards that net you Spoils.

What are they?

Based on the themes of the set I'd be willing to bet there's a trashing attack.

How much design space is left in the trashing attack front? Many times we've asked this, and there have been a lot of trashing attack fan cards. Donald has an article somewhere on why trashing attacks are hard to make.....can't seem to find it. You know the one anyway. In summary trashing attacks are swingy and/or weak. I'm going to take a punt on a anti-Lookout style trasher. Look at the top 3 cards of your opponents deck, trash 1. Except it's a one shot al la Pillager and it nets you Spoils.

A non-attack Spoils gainer would be interesting too. Given Spoils is a pretty cool idea.

Thoughts?

14
Dominion General Discussion / The 0 card deck start
« on: February 14, 2012, 10:18:06 pm »
So imagine you started dominion with no cards (instead of a deck of 7c/3e). All anyone can buy is copper for a few turns. Then I can't imagine there are any $2 cards you'd bother to buy when you have only 2 coppers in your deck...(oh wait! duchess! it would be actually useful in this situation) and then you have $3 are there any cards you'd buy over silver? Well technically woodcutter is more useful than silver at $3 (unless you bought that duchess :P). And then you hit $5. Do you want any of the $5 cards yet? Well Witch obviously, but you don't want any Labs or Libraries untill you have at least 7 cards....

I feel i'd take a workshop at this point. You desperately need to expand your deck....

Does anyone have any thoughts to add to this weird scenario?

15
Dominion General Discussion / Card Sleeves
« on: February 01, 2012, 06:53:50 pm »
I'm thinking of buying some card sleeves for my Dominion set.

I was originally thinking that the Mayday Games card sleeves looked promising, but then I noticed this thread on BGG;

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/726279/mayday-games-euro-card-sleeves-horrible

which has some incredibly mixed reviews on them....

I was just wondering if any of you guys have bought card sleeves for your Dominion sets? What are the best ones?

16
Dominion Isotropic / Inn Bug?
« on: November 19, 2011, 09:01:48 pm »
I just played a Chancellor and opted to put my deck in my discard pile and then bought an Inn. The only card it had for me to shuffle into my deck was the Inn itself (and yes I did have actions other than my chancellor in my deck)

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