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Topics - dane-m

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Whenever I click on "Show unread posts since last visit" I'm being told that there are no unread topics found since my last visit, even when there are (for example Donald's Menagerie preview and the various replies).  I think this behaviour started within the last week or so, i.e. I'm fairly sure that I recently checked successfullt for unread posts.  Anyone got any idea what could be causing it?  If it's relevant, I selected the permanently logged-in option back when I first started using the forum.

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Rules Questions / TR + Church - is the Wiki wrong
« on: August 06, 2019, 12:12:13 pm »
The text of Church says "Set aside up to 3 cards from your hand face down. At the start of your next turn, put them into your hand, then you may trash a card from your hand."

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Church says "If you play Church multiple times such as via Throne Room, keep the set aside cards separate; you may not trash multiple cards from one set of cards."

OK, so "keep the set aside cards separate" makes sense, but I fail to see how "you may not trash multiple cards from one set of cards" can be correct.

At the start of your next turn you first pick up one of the sets of set-aside cards and trash any card that is now in your hand.  Obviously that includes the cards that you have just picked up.  Then you pick up the second set of set-aside cards and trash any card that is now in your hand.  That includes not only the cards that you have just picked up, but also the cards you previously picked up, so demonstrably it is possible to trash multiple cards from one set of cards.

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Rules Questions / Exact timing of "when you trash"
« on: May 06, 2015, 03:57:48 am »
Help!  I've come to the conclusion that I no longer seem to be able to make sense of the timing of "when you trash" for certain cards.  I must be missing some important point, but I can't see what it is.

My problems started when I read through various topics that discussed the exact timing of "when you gain" and its consequences.  I was prompted to do so because in the topic on exchanging Travellers (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13166.msg489093#msg489093) Jeebus makes use of that to establish the exact timing of "when you discard" for exchanging Travellers.  Along the way I also encountered various examples that were given of the timing of "when you trash".  In case my problems stem from misunderstanding any of what I've read this morning, I'd better start by summarising what I think I've learnt:
  • "When you gain" occurs when the gain completes.  One of the consequences is that Watchtower moves the card from the location to which it was originally gained as opposed to intercepting it en route and redirecting it.
  • "When you discard" occurs when the discard completes.  One of the consequences is that BoM-Page is on the discard pile (and hence a BoM capable of being returned to its own pile rather than incapable of being returned to the Page pile) when the exchange takes place.
  • "When you trash" occurs when the trash completes.  So technically a trashed Fortress goes to the trash pile before being returned to hand.
My problem is that I now don't understand how BoM-(card-with-on-trash-ability) and Estate-Inherit-(card-with-on-trash-ability) manage to make use of the on-trash ability.  Although in the above I've deliberately used the word "occurs" rather than "triggers", my current understanding is based on the assumption that "occurs" and "triggers" are identical, in which case I draw the conclusion that BoM-(card-with-on-trash-ability) and Estate-Inherit-(card-with-on-trash-ability) have already become BoM and Estate respectively by the time I check for on-trash ability so there no longer is one.  What am I missing?

At one stage I thought I'd managed to work out what I was getting wrong, but the explanation to myself didn't quite seem to hold water.  My attempted revised understanding was that on-trash abilities were checked for at the start of the trashing process, so BoM would still be in play and the Estate would still be mine and hence have an on-trash ability, but didn't trigger until the trash had completed.  The problem with that explanation was that although I had no trouble understanding how a 'when-gain' ability could trigger for Estate-Inherit-(card-with-on-gain-ability) - buy happens before gain, so clearly the Estate would be mine before checking for the 'on-gain' - it left me failing to understand how a 'when-buy' ability could trigger for Estate-Inherit-(card-with-on-buy-ability).

Writing this post has forced me to think things through much more carefully.  I can now say that if I've misunderstood the Inheritance mechanism and it is in fact the case that a 'when-buy' ability does not trigger for Estate-Inherit-(card-with-on-buy-ability), then I don't have a problem with the exact timing of "when you trash".

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