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Dominion Articles / Towards a New Theory of Discard
« on: March 04, 2019, 05:37:45 pm »

Quote from: Donald X
You can't look through your discard pile because some people would slow down the game by repeatedly pawing through it, considering stuff.
Originally you could count it. Valerie didn't like that you had to count it face down, and that we'd have to tell you that. So you can't count it either.

Quote from: Dark Ages Rulebook
In rare circumstances an effect may try to move a card that is not where that effect expects the card to be. In those cases the card does not move - the effect has "lost track" of the card. Losing track of a card prevents it from being moved, but does not stop anything else from happening.

In our noble efforts to help Dominion become more insular more precise, as the complexities of the game abound, it becomes necessary to make certain concepts more formal in order to arbitrate certain ambiguities that come up in the game. (The play/in play distinction, the lose track rule, buying vs. gaining, and so on.)

Having familiarity with these concepts/the basic rules of the game makes it pretty easy to play even with cards you have never heard of before. Do everything from top to bottom on the cards you play, and try to win. And even though precision is often important, one does not need to think about what's precisely happening every time a card is played so long as the consistency of the effects with the rules is maintained.

It is on this note that I might call attention to the card Hermit as an example. Hermit is a pretty easy card to use, and fun to play with. You can trash curses that someone else just gave you, and you can maybe gain madmen later. This ease has made the majority of the Dominion community fall into a slumber, one which I now hope to disturb.

What is going on when one plays Hermit?
1. One looks through their discard pile (ordinarily not allowed.)
2. THEN one may trash a card from either their discard pile or their hand.
3. Etc.

Why is step one included? Knowing the contents of one's discard pile is only marginally useful; the whole step seems to be a waste of ink!

Of course, we don't actually think this way. Looking through one's discard pile is essential, because otherwise step two would have strange conditions of fulfillment--one would have to KNOW what is in their discard pile without looking, and the general spirit of the Lose Track Rule seems to be: one cannot know what one does not see.

(What is seen, as a given, in Dominion? One's own hand, the number of cards in one's deck, etc. In addition to this, the presence of cards in one's discard pile is visible (which is what makes Windfall work), but not the nature of such cards. The top card of the discard pile is weird and we'll talk about it later.)

Once this knowledge is acquired, trashing from the discard becomes a matter of ease.

However, it has already been established that the trashing happens an entire effect after the looking. The knowledge acquired by looking, it can be assumed, "carries onward", so to speak, through at least the duration of the card's resolution. (It seems prima facie plausible that this knowledge is limited, however, for the reason that although the contents of one's discard pile usually has been seen in it's entirety, it does not count as "knowledge" in either the theoretical, and even usually the practical sense (unless you've got an eidetic memory).)

What have we established here? That one does not have to be in the process of "looking", in the technical sense, in order for the knowledge obtained from that looking to be able to be utilized by a card.

Let us suppose that we had a Reaction card which reacted to being looked at, much like Patron reacts to being revealed. (The details of this TBD; we can at least assume it would be triggered by Hermit). The Reaction effect would be something like: "put this on top of your deck". There is a question as to, when this card is triggered by Hermit, one can trash a card from one's discard pile. What if the reaction allowed you to put two cards from your discard onto your deck? And so on. There seems to be an ambiguity as to when one's knowledge is sufficiently disturbed in order for a card to play its proper function. Hermit depends on a specific observation of a discard pile in order to carry out its trashing function; if one wanted to be really precise, it seems plausible that any change in the pile in question would prevent the trashing.

This discussion of the interaction of Summon and Death Cart is also of note here. Summon knows it gained Death Cart, but since two Ruins are sitting on top of it, Summon can't track it and set it aside. Darn!

Here's the fix. Summon should be worded: "Gain a card costing up to $4--but first, watch your discard pile very carefully until this Event is done resolving. Set it aside--carefully. If you did, then at the start of your next turn, play it".

Also, I'm sorry for writing this.

Variants and Fan Cards / Need help with card concept
« on: August 16, 2018, 09:16:38 am »
So, I just had an idea for a card

5D               Action-Reserve

Put this on your tavern mat.
When you would shuffle your deck, you may trash this from your tavern mat to instead look through and arrange your deck in any order you choose.

(The original version didn't trash itself, but I figured that would be wayyy too strong.)

The problem with the card, I think, would be that it would take FAR too long to resolve. It would be both pretty irritating for the person who used it and the other player. So, I need to find a way to retain the idea of the card, but also fix the time issue. Thoughts?

Solo Challenges / Empy the Black Market in as few turns as possible
« on: August 12, 2018, 07:22:19 pm »
I haven't seen one of these "post logs of different trials" challenges in a while, and someone mentioned this in another thread, so...have at it!

(For proof....I mean, a woodcutter log or video or cut-n-paste would be good, or you could just tell us what it ended up being for you.)

Puzzles and Challenges / Most money from 5-card hand?
« on: August 07, 2018, 04:10:23 pm »
Suppose you have a hand comprised of 5 action cards. Your deck and discard are empty, and you have no tokens or stuff on mats, etc. (The board likewise has no tokens on any of the supply piles.) It is a solo game.

Theoretically, what is the highest amount of coin you can achieve from such a hand (in a single turn)?

Off the top of my head I can think of a solution that nets $86--KC-KC-Hero-Hero-Trusty Steed, where Steed is used for coins and draw, and hero is used 5x for platinum and once for fortune.

A less exotic one netting a mere $54 --KC-KC-Beggar-Beggar-Coppersmith

(I assume I'm missing a lot with gainers and villa, etc. See what you can come up with!)

I don't like the implication that somehow getting more and more fool's gold is suddenly good for somebody.

Here goes, folks.

Humble Village
$2  -  Action
+2 Actions
You may gain a card costing up to 3.

$4 - Action-Attack
+2 cards
+1 buy
Name a card. Each other player reveals the top four cards of their deck,
discards any copies of the named card, and puts the rest back in any order they choose.

$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.
You may gain a curse. If you do, trash up to two more cards from your hand.

Split: Deal/Negotiation
TOP:  Deal
$5 - Action/Victory
+1 Buy
2 VP
BOTTOM: Negotiations
$6 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 VP
Each player reveals their hand. If nobody revealed a victory card, the game ends after this turn.

N.B.: This pile always has 10 cards, 5 of each

Wealthy Uncle
$3 - Action
If more the half of the Provinces remain in the supply pile, gain a Duchy.
If half or fewer of the Provinces remain in the supply pile, gain an action card costing up to $5.

Rules Questions / Self-Pin?
« on: July 05, 2018, 11:53:15 am »
I think I already know the answer to this one, but it's funny to me, so....

Let's suppose you buy donate on turn one, trashing everything. At this point, wouldn't it be literally impossible for you to do anything for the rest of the game? You couldn't pay off any debt, or buy any coppers, or...anything

(And what would the remainder of your turns look like in an online solo game? I don't think there'd be any boxes to click on at any point in the infinite remainder of your turns.)

Dominion General Discussion / Logical Dominion translation?
« on: June 17, 2018, 03:49:58 pm »
How difficult would it be to translate the functions of Dominion, and all its cards, into a logically-precise language, la Frege or Russell?

Variants and Fan Cards / Pile Control Card --Reinforcements?
« on: June 17, 2018, 03:02:27 pm »
Reinforcements - $6 Action

Trash a card from the supply.
Gain up to two cards, each costing less than this.
When you gain this, each other player may gain a card costing less than this.

Obviously a card that would be useful the whole game, but in particular the end--trash a province, gain two duchies while you're ahead; etc.

Too weak? Too pointless?

Goko Dominion Online / Weird Problem W/ Mac OS X Yosemite?
« on: November 25, 2015, 02:45:49 pm »
So, whenever I open Dominion, after I quit it, the dock is completely gone, and there's no way to get it back. I have to restart the computer. (In fact, not even minimizing a window works--it just freezes and then goes back to staying open).

Thoughts on this?

Variants and Fan Cards / Zero Dollar Card?
« on: July 04, 2014, 09:56:31 am »
$0 Action
+1 card
+1 action
You may trash a card from your hand
When you gain this, gain two coppers and a curse.

This seems at first like it could be WAY overpowered--use this until you want to trash it with something else. However, I think it could work--it certainly wouldn't break the game, a zero dollar price point isn't much more ridiculous than $2, and it will ever really benefit you to have gobs of these. It's kind of the same concept as chapel, in a way.

Help! / Analyze Another Newbie
« on: April 16, 2014, 08:15:26 pm »
So, I am a quite mediocre player, and, being a long time lurker on the forum, decided it was high time I post a game and get some advice.

Code: [Select]
Beggar, Warehouse, Watchtower, Bridge, Taxman, City, Duke, Ghost Ship, Highway, Jester

This one was beggar/duke (me) versus city stack (opponent). I'm not so sure if I chose the right strategy, or my opponent just played his badly. I open beggar/beggar, and end up getting 5 duchies, and 7 dukes. The game ends on estates piling out. My questions:
A. Was my strategy the way to go? and
B. If so, how did I misplay?

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