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Messages - Galzria

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1
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« on: October 22, 2019, 07:07:32 pm »
while I understand the reasoning behind their “no-lynch D1 passes” list, it’s lazy and something I could very much see scum!Space going to allow themselves the freedom to not make real reads - something Space knows isn’t their strong suit, especially D1 before any real data is available.

I think you're saying that I deliberately said more than I needed to about unwillingness to lynch certain players, because that will somehow excuse me from needing to do reads. How does that mechanism work?

I think by declaring intent on a few D1 passes, I've mostly just concentrated my problem in to a tougher-to-read lynchpool than I would otherwise have had, since the real hard ones to read for me are people like you, Joth and Shraeye.

Anyway, you're certainly right that I find D1 hard and D1 reads very shaky.

Well, let’s say you’re town. You have no idea if your “free-pass-list” contains scum. What if that’s the entire scum team (very much not likely, but hey). Are you just resigning yourself to “Damn, well that was freaking unlucky as hell.”? They are all just as likely to be scum as any other players. Removing them (or anybody at all really) just feels like an anti-town move - and like I said, I actually understand your why’s for each of them. But it feels like an arbitrary cop-out to not have to give reads on that group, even if it is just for D1.

2
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« on: October 22, 2019, 06:59:16 pm »
@ Space: no I didn't remember that you explained what PPE means but...

@ Mix: thanks for the link, it's very useful!

Also, do people have any confidence in the votes they're casting? Or are they just literally voting at random?

Technical point: what happens if we don't reach a majority by the end of Day 1?
90% random for me still. The goal is to make it less and less random as the day progresses, but I must admit, at least for me, day 1 is very tough.

Fwiw, we have 6 days left. The deadline is 28th. I believe we have some people still MIA, at least Galzria hasn't posted yet.

Pfft - haven’t posted yet? I cast the first vote of the game!

Vote: Space - while I understand the reasoning behind their “no-lynch D1 passes” list, it’s lazy and something I could very much see scum!Space going to allow themselves the freedom to not make real reads - something Space knows isn’t their strong suit, especially D1 before any real data is available.

I don't get it, how does this help scum!Space in a way that doesn't also help town!Space?

Town!Space wants to find scum, and thus free passes are purely anti-scum hunting. Scum!Space wants to avoid making as many “real” reads as possible, because doing so is hard to fake - especially for someone whose approach is so logic and data driven.

3
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« on: October 22, 2019, 06:16:43 pm »
@ Space: no I didn't remember that you explained what PPE means but...

@ Mix: thanks for the link, it's very useful!

Also, do people have any confidence in the votes they're casting? Or are they just literally voting at random?

Technical point: what happens if we don't reach a majority by the end of Day 1?
90% random for me still. The goal is to make it less and less random as the day progresses, but I must admit, at least for me, day 1 is very tough.

Fwiw, we have 6 days left. The deadline is 28th. I believe we have some people still MIA, at least Galzria hasn't posted yet.

Pfft - haven’t posted yet? I cast the first vote of the game!

Vote: Space - while I understand the reasoning behind their “no-lynch D1 passes” list, it’s lazy and something I could very much see scum!Space going to allow themselves the freedom to not make real reads - something Space knows isn’t their strong suit, especially D1 before any real data is available.

4
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - All Full Up - Delayed Start
« on: October 21, 2019, 01:42:43 pm »
vote: Raptor

I’m not scum, therefore he must be.

5
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 19, 2019, 05:21:36 pm »
My thinking is that scum already knew MiX was town so realizing that they were supposed to know now would be an extra leap
Uh... this stuff isn't rocket science.

I’m in Joth’s camp on the thinking here. I’m not sure why you’re having such a difficult time grasping his concepts. You seem to be under the impression that if something is inherently scummy, scum wouldn’t do it. That’s just backwards.

Further, you seem to be overlooking the key point to Joth’s argument that Rae’s instantaneously flipped read on Shraeye isn’t something town does very often. “Lynch Shrae, lynch Shrae, lynch Shrea... don’t veng Shrae!” It’s just off.

6
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 18, 2019, 01:53:21 am »
Vote: joth

Why joth over DatSwan when they're basically making the same argument?

This.

Also, you prefer Swan. Also 2x, Rae, vote Swan with me.

7
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« on: October 17, 2019, 05:02:30 pm »
Sorry, it was Joth, not Faust, that presented the “scum wouldn’t quick-hammer” D1 theory that makes it perfectly “safe” for scum to do just that.
Just because one person said that doesn't make it safe. In fact it makes it less safe because now you can make this argument.

Which is why it makes it safe because you can defend the action with this argument.
You can deconstruct any argument by adding layers of WIFOM, but that is not helpful. Without a mention of scum quickhammering noone would have considered it, so it would be safe to do it. As soon as it is mentioned, it's on people's minds. So you can be scum and try a WIFOM thing, but you can't go in assuming town won't even consider it.

I simply disagree. In a world where scum isn’t given a safe-pass to do something that would be considered suicide, it absolutely never happens. The WIFOM presented was when you said “in fact it makes it less safe because you made this argument.” My response was merely demonstrative of the circular logic you presented. Yes, my argument was bad - so was yours. Scum would never do what Shraeye & Raerae did D1 unless expressly presented the opportunity by a conversation saying “boy, scum would never do that!”.

I’m not arguing that the hammer makes either of them scum - simply that by virtue of scum being given the window to do it, it’s a very scummy thing to have happened. D1’s rarely if ever end like that. Town doesn’t do it. Scum doesn’t do it. Yet it happened.

8
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« on: October 17, 2019, 12:57:20 pm »
Sorry, it was Joth, not Faust, that presented the “scum wouldn’t quick-hammer” D1 theory that makes it perfectly “safe” for scum to do just that.
Just because one person said that doesn't make it safe. In fact it makes it less safe because now you can make this argument.

Which is why it makes it safe because you can defend the action with this argument.

9
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 17, 2019, 12:03:37 pm »
Also,

Vote: Swan

- Would also be very willing to vote Eddie.

- Waiting for Shraeye’s answer.

10
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« on: October 17, 2019, 12:02:36 pm »
Scum can quickhammer if I vote if I counted them correctly. Besides, pubby's not scum, so we should look into scum before lynching anti-town.

Ah yes, the day 1 scum quickhammer, a tried and true tactic.

Also, how could you even calculate this without knowing how many scum there are, which, I just double-checked, is not currently mod-supplied info?

vote: MiX

faust, I'm still keeping my eye on you.

There's at least 3 (there's always at least 3), and I assumed pubby was scum when doing this. He has (had?) 5 votes, right? Not sure.

Seems to me like the "at least" number (the lower limit) would not be the relevant number in calculating whether a quickhammer is possible. If there are, in fact, 4 scum, then the quickhammer was already possible and your vote wouldn't matter.

But that's semantics. The fact is, the quickhammer thing was an absurd thing to say. Do you really think (A) there's currently no scum on pubby and (B) all the scum in the game would jump on him quickly to get their day 1 mislynch in? Quickhammers are late game phenomena. There's no reason to be talking about a quick hammer in the early game. Also ... you assumed pubby was scum? Huh? That... that must be a typo right? Cause if you thought he was scum then worrying about a quickhammer would be extra weird.

Here's another scenario to try on for size: You're scum who wanted to jump on the bad pubby wagon but didn't want to look to eager, so you made up the quickhammer thing as a way to justify not voting now that wouldn't make you look bad if you decided to vote later.

Sorry, it was Joth, not Faust, that presented the “scum wouldn’t quick-hammer” D1 theory that makes it perfectly “safe” for scum to do just that.

11
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 17, 2019, 11:53:34 am »
As for the wagon. I’m actually not crazy scum reading a lot of it. It’s townie to run things up D1. It’s actually a good thing. What’s scummy af is how it ended. Hence my question to Shraeye.
Actually the end of the wagon is the towniest thing about it.

How do you mean?
It was an unnecessary risk for raerae and shraeye. The wagon already had enough support to go through when LaLight voted, and there was no other wagon around that posed any danger.

I disagree. It had already been stated categorically (by you, if I recall) that scum would never just quick lynch day 1 - that it was only a tactic of scum for later days. This was during the time of discussion that MiX said he was concerned about this happening to Pubby. In so saying, you essentially opened the door and provided a free pass for scum to do exactly that.

12
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 17, 2019, 04:40:53 am »
Galzria
Quote
As for the wagon. I’m actually not crazy scum reading a lot of it. It’s townie to run things up D1. It’s actually a good thing. What’s scummy af is how it ended. Hence my question to Shraeye

I don't agree here. I think there is scum on the wagon. vote: Jimmmmm.

Why

13
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 17, 2019, 04:40:14 am »
Shraeye, do anything interesting last night?

vote: Galzria

I personally tend to do exactly that when I am scum preparing a fakeclaim

Exactly what? I’m just curious if he did anything interesting. You know, after quick-unannounced-hammering MiX.

Well, i would call it an obvious breadcrumb: I pretend to do some action as Town PR, so then I can say "I have nothing to hide, here in this post I obviously hinted I am tracker and tracked shraeye"

It's not much of a case, but it's the best i have

I solemnly swear I did not target Shraeye last night.

uh why would you claim that

I don't feel like unvoting right now, sorry

You said you thought I was setting up some sort of fake claim against Shraeye. I’m simply stating that I’m not. I didn’t target Shraeye last night, so regardless of his answer to my question, which still stands by the way, this isn’t some sort of fake “gotcha” tactic.

14
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 17, 2019, 03:34:18 am »
Shraeye, do anything interesting last night?

vote: Galzria

I personally tend to do exactly that when I am scum preparing a fakeclaim

Exactly what? I’m just curious if he did anything interesting. You know, after quick-unannounced-hammering MiX.

Well, i would call it an obvious breadcrumb: I pretend to do some action as Town PR, so then I can say "I have nothing to hide, here in this post I obviously hinted I am tracker and tracked shraeye"

It's not much of a case, but it's the best i have

I solemnly swear I did not target Shraeye last night.

15
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 17, 2019, 03:33:45 am »
Also, while I’m playing video games with Swan right now:

I’m quite a few cocktails deep, so semi-DAMA. This thread has been woefully silent since D2 began.

yay let's talk

why were you so silent yesterDay? What are your thoughts on MiX wagon?

I was silent most of yesterday due to being on a work trip with Swan, Raptor & 2 others (well, many others - but just us 5 from the SF Bay Area). While there was plenty of leisure time during the trip, most of that (and I really mean most: We averaged 3.5 hours of sleep a night for 5 nights straight) was filled drinking and hanging out and socializing. Which is why I slept through Friday upon coming home...

As for the wagon. I’m actually not crazy scum reading a lot of it. It’s townie to run things up D1. It’s actually a good thing. What’s scummy af is how it ended. Hence my question to Shraeye.

16
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 17, 2019, 02:59:31 am »
Also, while I’m playing video games with Swan right now:

I’m quite a few cocktails deep, so semi-DAMA. This thread has been woefully silent since D2 began.

17
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 17, 2019, 02:56:23 am »
Shraeye, do anything interesting last night?

vote: Galzria

I personally tend to do exactly that when I am scum preparing a fakeclaim

Exactly what? I’m just curious if he did anything interesting. You know, after quick-unannounced-hammering MiX.

18
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 16, 2019, 08:22:12 pm »
Vote: DatSwan

I like the cut of your jib.

19
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 16, 2019, 08:13:06 pm »
Shraeye, do anything interesting last night?

20
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 16, 2019, 08:08:06 pm »
SK, I presume?

There's no point in an SK being a Doctor though. I think we may have 2 scum teams.

Based on OP information, I doubt we have two scum teams. Town is clearly labeled Gatewatch, and scum clearly labeled Bolos. Pubby was almost certainly third faction. What his exact wincon was, and how being a Doctor helped him achieve that, only he’s likely to know.

Bolas*, not Bolos*

Also, if you wanted to speculate, Glooble notes there are a handful of players whose win conditions may change during the game, but they will have been given the specifics in their PM’s. It’s possible pubby’s Doctor role had some side effect of changing his alignment/wincon based on it. But again, not sure there’s much to be gained from speculating - just more of a note.

21
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« on: October 16, 2019, 08:04:06 pm »
SK, I presume?

There's no point in an SK being a Doctor though. I think we may have 2 scum teams.

Based on OP information, I doubt we have two scum teams. Town is clearly labeled Gatewatch, and scum clearly labeled Bolos. Pubby was almost certainly third faction. What his exact wincon was, and how being a Doctor helped him achieve that, only he’s likely to know.

22
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« on: October 14, 2019, 04:43:27 pm »
At least one of Shrae/Rae is scum - both on the backs of the double quick hammer (after it was started that scum wouldn’t do something so brash D1), and based on their not-really-believable tunneling of each other all of D1.

I’m also, as stated earlier, hearing scum bells on Didds.

23
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« on: October 14, 2019, 12:53:54 am »
"want to say my flavor name"

It's a Scum move: awaclus
It's a spotlight thing: Faust
You do you, girl: joth
Antitown: datswan
Followup question: raerae

Ignored: WCD, Uncle, gkrieg, pubby, Galz, jimmm, EFHW, laLight
Ignored, except to ask if I was doing it: Mix

Majority of scum clearly in the nonresponse group (which includes MiX).  Not just because that side has more people.

Let me know who I scummily mischaracterized.

Also, I haven't made up my mind yet

I just think Swan’s point was well taken:

The setup post lists relevant flavor information. Name is not one of them. So name claiming (or not) serves no relevant value.

24
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« on: October 13, 2019, 05:20:26 am »
Alright, caught up.

Sorry, literally slept through Friday after getting back from Denver, and worked much of today. Took me a little extra time to find the energy to reread.

Vote:MiX

I’m very much on the same page as Joth regarding MiX’s reaction to Pubby, and the whole “scum can quick hammer” nonsense.

Joth is, I believe town, as is (oddly) faust. I’m not seeing Pubby bring anything different than normal, and Didds is setting off scum-bells as well.

Outside that, I’m wary of a few people and lean town on a few others, but don’t have any strong reads.

25
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« on: October 10, 2019, 04:11:51 pm »
Flying home today - will start up for me tomorrow.

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