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Messages - ashersky

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1
Forum Games / Re: RMM48: Falling Skies Mafia (back on)
« on: Today at 11:16:05 am »
All Role PMs are done.  Over a year later, but done.

2
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: Today at 11:15:34 am »
Why are we not talking about the fact that, if we're in a 5-scum situation, we literally need every town player to vote as a block to hit scum without bussing? Conversely, scum only needs two townies to be on a wagon on town together before they can all jump on it. And if they picked daychat, then 3/5 of them can coordinate a quick hammer. Geeze, this setup is rough. I don't think I've been fully comprehending what a rough spot we're in. And if we mislynch today, we could be at 5 town-5 scum tomorrow, so we might be in MyLo right now.

It's been mentioned.  No one seems worried.

3
Forum Games / Re: RMM48: Falling Skies Mafia (back on)
« on: Today at 10:48:47 am »
Extremely advanced? You think I'll be okay?  If so /in

Yes, I think you'll be okay.  Just read everything at least twice and ask the mod as many questions as needed.

4
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: Today at 10:25:14 am »
If it was an appeal to emotion, it clearly worked, since you seemed to have been moved by it.  Don't blame your emotional fickleness on me, though.

(Ironically, or not, your appeal to emotion attack is, in an of itself, an appeal to emotion attack.  So it's at least a well-played meta joke, which I can appreciate.)

(A second ironic point, of course, is joth's propensity for over-the-top emotional exasperation at the play of certain players, or the actions and words of others.  See basically any previous game with MiX for examples.)

5
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: Today at 03:01:32 am »
I see only upsides to bringing this out, if it hasn't been already:

The Hood randomized who would carry out the vig shot by all of us selecting "self targets Eddie" after Eddie was agreed upon.

We do not know who actually carried out the shot.

You might have mentioned whose idea the randomization was. Objectively it was a towny idea, given we all equally shared the risk.

6
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 10:18:43 pm »
I find the stance that multiple players are taking on the "protecting PRs" argument perplexing.

The setup is lopsided against town if we think of this in a vanilla fashion (goons vs. VTs).  Scum has 4-5 players with no way of being outed (anymore).  Our literal only hope is for a PGO to pick one off for us, if we even got a PGO.  Even then, scum could have gotten a PGO too and use that against us.

Outed neighbors are VTs with a QT.  The argument can be made (and was made) that if scum is in the neighborhood, they already know this, so there's no harm in publicly announcing it.  The counterargument was made that there was also a chance scum is not in the neighborhood, and claiming provided them that information separately.

I don't really care so much about it being known that I, specifically, am a neighbor.  I am somewhat annoyed that in the case that both of you are town, EFHW unwittingly told scum information they wanted, either to not target us to PR hunt or to definitely target us to PGO dodge.

The phrase "protect the PRs" doesn't necessarily mean keep them from being killed.  It just means keep their identity as secret as possible, including by limiting POE.  Now, three scum know to hunt from a limited number of town players and who are safe to kill.  In a game that may possibly be decided tonight, that's a terrible, terrible thing.

So yes, I argued against claiming last night, and continue to argue that I was 10000000% correct.  It's all moot, though, because players will do what they want, based on their own win conditions and beliefs.

She was completely right about one thing -- the neighborhood may have felt like a place of camaraderie, but it definitely turned out not to be.

7
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 10:31:48 am »
Ash, can you say why Glooble got an upgrade?

Recent posts felt towny.  Glooble and I aren't exactly the best match (thinking back on our first few games together), but I think we've sort of figured each other out at this point.  Glooble may disagree?

I think I felt like his reactions were genuine, which was enough to bump him up.

No popsquiz from you? (or anyone else?)

8
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 10:30:23 am »
Ok but, does scum actually ever do this? I feel like I am very susceptible to suspecting that a town person who is leading is scum... but I canít recall ever actually seeing it. IRL, scum is almost always sitting back and playing reactively, since itís so hard to know how town will react to a claiming plan.

Yes, I do it all the time.  At least, I used to.  So does gkrieg, so does faust, I'm sure a few others.


And furthermore, ďclaim pushing is scummyĒ isnít an argument Iíd expect from town!ash who is usually such a grounded realist when I suggest that scum is doing a crazy gambit. So that post really makes me want to vote: ash.

I still think that if there turns out to be scum in the neighborhood I want to lynch MiX next.

What are you talking about?  Grounded realist?  What?

I'm literally the scum doing the crazy gambit every game.  And claim pushing is scummy this game because it appears to be a negative utility move for town.  Even SS has agreed that claiming should be put off for now.  He basically backed off his plan when he didn't get enough traction.  That's also the move scum would pull there (as would town).

I'm honestly just confused by you here.  I'd say it was scummy if it made any sense, but it doesn't.  So I guess it's not?

Humor me. Show me some games where scum actually came out trying to lead town and pushing for a mass claim. Bonus points if it actually worked.

Itís possible Iím remembering things wrong, but my sense of you Ash is a person who has been around the block and knows the difference between scummy things and things actual scum does. But maybe Iím the one whose sense of this is wrong.

Your question (I thought) was if scum ever came out and lead town actively, which I strongly believe happens often.  As to what extent leading is happening is probably a subjective opinion, there may not be consensus on which games are where, but I'm guessing many of my scum performances, especially MVP ones, would have examples of folks just doing what I suggest.

As for me as a person, I probably do come off as a grouchy old veteran more often than necessary.  Maybe we just disagree on this point regarding what scum would do vs. what is a scummy thing.  Regarding SS and his claiming plan, I was providing a possible scum narrative there.  I don't think there's much in the way of scum reads on him, which may or may not be dangerous.  (My gut actually has me feeling like he might be third party, given that one post by him.)  He definitely could be town, in the same way that EFHW could be scum outing the hood (for some reason) or town doing what she felt is best (which is where I fall).  I'm just keeping a wary eye out, as scum!SS has burned me before.

9
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 10:23:13 am »
Even ss has agreed that claiming should be put off for now.  He basically backed off his plan when he didn't get enough traction.  That's also the move scum would pull there (as would town).

I'm honestly just confused by you here.  I'd say it was scummy if it made any sense, but it doesn't.  So I guess it's not?

This interpretation is totally unnecessarily sinister, and it's also completely false. I'm backing off the plan because it's not pro town to insisting on a claim if it won't be done. That would just be irrational.

I didn't mean for it to be sinister.  I just meant to show how it could fit a scum narrative, which also clearly including the possibility for a town narrative.

The second line is about joth, which I assume you knew?

10
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 09:54:32 am »
Time for a popsquiz, which I would suggest for everyone.

Signup list order:

Townish:
glooble, pps, efhw, gkrieg

Nullish:
MiX, DatSwan, joth, 2.7

Scummish:
mcmc, pubby, ss

Upgrades from D1: MiX, Glooble
Downgrades from D1: DatSwan, mcmc, ss

Mcmc did not impress in his tiny return.

11
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 09:50:03 am »
Ok but, does scum actually ever do this? I feel like I am very susceptible to suspecting that a town person who is leading is scum... but I canít recall ever actually seeing it. IRL, scum is almost always sitting back and playing reactively, since itís so hard to know how town will react to a claiming plan.

Yes, I do it all the time.  At least, I used to.  So does gkrieg, so does faust, I'm sure a few others.


And furthermore, ďclaim pushing is scummyĒ isnít an argument Iíd expect from town!ash who is usually such a grounded realist when I suggest that scum is doing a crazy gambit. So that post really makes me want to vote: ash.

I still think that if there turns out to be scum in the neighborhood I want to lynch MiX next.

What are you talking about?  Grounded realist?  What?

I'm literally the scum doing the crazy gambit every game.  And claim pushing is scummy this game because it appears to be a negative utility move for town.  Even SS has agreed that claiming should be put off for now.  He basically backed off his plan when he didn't get enough traction.  That's also the move scum would pull there (as would town).

I'm honestly just confused by you here.  I'd say it was scummy if it made any sense, but it doesn't.  So I guess it's not?

12
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 09:15:11 am »
Also not sure where you're getting lack of confidence- he seems pretty damn confident that I'm scum based on tissue paper evidence.

I think it just seems to me like he's deferring to SS on everything SS-related.

Maybe that's what I'm sensing.

13
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 07:48:02 am »
MiX seems towny today, mostly due to SS.  That's...so strange.

I was scumreading from D1 into N1.

Maybe it's the overt sheeping/lack of self-confidence in the MiX posts recently?

14
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 06:15:38 am »
I both like claims in general and readily concede that there are benefits to your claiming plan.

My contention (intuition) is that this specific plan (VT/not-VT claiming) is too easily manipulated by scum AND an unknown third party (unless you are the survivor who wants to win with town even if that means you lose, so that's why you feel so sure?).

Do you see any world in which you want to lynch anyone from outside the hood?  Because if not, there's no reason to claim, as there are no possible counterclaims, so nothing to really lynch on.

So those are my points.  Seems too easily manipulated and seems to have no impact on a neighborhood lynch.  It's probably has some utility if we are lynching outside of the hood?  But I doubt it.

At any rate, you definitely don't have consensus, right or wrong.  I assume more voices will come?  Or lurkers will just lurk it out.

15
Mafia Game Threads / Re: f.ds Mafia Hub
« on: June 17, 2019, 05:55:14 am »
FYI, Falling Skies is open again for signups.

16
Forum Games / Re: RMM48: Falling Skies Mafia (On Hold)
« on: June 17, 2019, 05:46:46 am »
This thread has been dead for over a year.

Now it is revived.

About half the QTs are re-written.  I'm working on the rest, but I have to piece it together anew.  Still, I plan for this to be good to go in July.  Please re-in if you want.

17
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 05:44:53 am »
In other news, a player who helps mafia is bad for town.

And yet, how will we know who that player is?  Oh right, we won't, which is why your you can't sufficiently account for it, or any other anti-town actions taken in your plan.

18
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 05:43:49 am »
I'm getting a stronger and stronger feeling that SS is scum leading this game to a scum win.

A plan to out all town PRs with tons of holes in it pointed out by multiple players which he continually ignores.
Blatant mischaracterizations of some players' statements.
A seemingly misleading push to tie the PR outing plan to lynching within the neighborhood.

Remember, scum already knows everything.  Scum can plan accordingly, or even make the plan.  SS is posting like he already knows everything.

19
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 05:41:30 am »
Two people in the neighborhood said they wanted to lynch outside of the neighborhood and that swayed your opinion?

Which two people in the hood said that?

20
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 05:41:10 am »
To be fair, survivor will pretty much always side with mafia if we mislynch today

No. That depends on the survivor. Some survivors don't just have winning as a goal, but would rather win with town.

Then that's literally playing against your own wincon, which is crappy at the least and super crappy at the worst.  It also makes it hard for town to know how to make the right play.

21
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 17, 2019, 03:59:45 am »
So a scum-aligned 3rd party, be it a traitor or survivor who thinks mafia is the way to go can also mess with your plan, not just the actual scum? 

Cool. Cool cool cool.

22
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 16, 2019, 07:27:37 pm »
What does third party claim in your plan if they are survivor?

23
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 16, 2019, 07:25:41 pm »
Survivor probably claims and joins scum and completely ensures the scum win, if they exist.


24
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 16, 2019, 07:23:56 pm »
Best case scenario we are 4 v 8, right? 

Mislynch + NK means 4 v 6, takes 4 to lynch. Traitor claims, lynch claimed PR. No kill, game over.

PRs are pretty key, whomever is left. Plan is bad.

25
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 2)
« on: June 16, 2019, 07:20:02 pm »
Depending on scum numbers, they win just by killing VTs.  They just dodge all PRs, negating the utility of our only possible killing role. Depending on the number of PR claims, that could really lead us into ruin.

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