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Messages - Commodore Chuckles

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1
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« on: June 23, 2019, 09:29:20 pm »
Old Smithy


Just curious, would Scheme provide a loophole here? It says "at the start of cleanup" but I'm not if sure "start" means you absolutely have to do it before anything else.

2
Recommendation: do not put Port, Rats, Changeling or Castles into the Item piles in a game, unless you really want to annoy everyone at the table.

How would these behave any differently? If a card says "gain X", you still gain X even if it's not in the supply.
No you don't. "Gain X" gains from the Supply unless explicitly stated otherwise (usually with some phrase such as "gain an X from the X pile").

Oh, right, I forgot about that.

3
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: June 23, 2019, 04:28:54 pm »
Master
Action - $3 - Attack
+$2
Each other player reveals their hand and trashes any revealed Doctors.

4
Recommendation: do not put Port, Rats, Changeling or Castles into the Item piles in a game, unless you really want to annoy everyone at the table.

How would these behave any differently? If a card says "gain X", you still gain X even if it's not in the supply.

5
Opponent did this, but it was still interesting:

j plays a King's Court.
j plays a Band of Misfits.
j plays a Farmers' Market.
j gets +1 Buy.
j adds 1 VP to the Farmers' Market pile.
j gets +$4.
j plays a Farmers' Market again.
j gets +1 Buy.
j takes 4 VP from the Farmers' Market pile.
j trashes a Farmers' Market.
j plays a Band of Misfits a third time.
j plays a Swindler.
j gets +$2.

I assume Band of Misfits could change into something else because it left play.

6
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« on: June 23, 2019, 12:00:24 pm »
In the mean time, here's a card that's possibly boring. No new mechanics, but possibly interesting?

Benefactor


On first glance, it looks interesting enough. It's similar to Embargo: Embargo prevents opponents from gaining something they need more than you do, while this gives you something you need more than they do. I imagine thinking of clever uses for it could be fun. You could simply have a different strategy than they do, of course, but you could also gain a whole bunch of powerful cards at once and then immediately end the game, or use it to empty piles, or distribute a Cemetery, which will possibly let you trash more junk than them and will also let you trash the Cemetery itself while they're stuck with it.

7
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread
« on: June 23, 2019, 01:06:29 am »
Another reason the Mountain's Gift sucks:

C buys and gains a Blessed Village.
C takes The Mountain's Gift.
C receives The Mountain's Gift.
C gains a Silver.
Cargo Ship loses track of Blessed Village (it was covered up).

You could have just choosed to receive the Boon next turn instead of immediately...

Yeah, I could have also chosen to set aside the Blessed Village with Cargo Ship before receiving the Boon. This just annoyed me because I didn't realize it would happen.

8
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread
« on: June 22, 2019, 07:44:45 pm »
Another reason the Mountain's Gift sucks:

C buys and gains a Blessed Village.
C takes The Mountain's Gift.
C receives The Mountain's Gift.
C gains a Silver.
Cargo Ship loses track of Blessed Village (it was covered up).

9
Hideout + Watchtower

Trash the Estates revealing Watchtower to trash the Curses. You also get a village that reduces handsize for Watchtower's draw.

On the downside, this makes Hideout lose its usefulness faster.

10
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Strictly Better
« on: June 19, 2019, 11:18:31 pm »
Commodore Chuckles isn't trying to say anything about Cathedral being bad. The point is that it is different from, not worse than gaining a bunch of Labs.

Correct me if I'm wrong about this. But I'm pretty sure that's what's going on, and also that this misunderstanding is what is feeding the whole argument. You can also correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Basically, that's what I'm saying, yes. The two can't really be compared.

11
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Strictly Better
« on: June 19, 2019, 07:42:33 pm »
I can't tell if you're joking or not. I was talking about Coppers, not Estates.
Cathedral trashes 0-1 Coppers and 2-3 Estates on reshuffles 0 and 1. You're caring about that 0-1 Coppers pretty disproportionately.

I'm not caring about the 0-1 Coppers you have to trash on shuffles 0 and 1, I'm caring about the 7 Coppers you nearly always have to trash before the game ends. I don't know why you're talking as if Cathedral's effect ends after you trash your Estates.

You want to trash your Coppers too, so that's a bonus effect on top of gaining the three Labs.

It's a bonus effect with the important downside of having to buy other payload to replace the Coppers. Which is why Cathedral is not "3 Labs for $3".

12
I don't think Kingdom Restoration should have the line. In the official cards like Scheme, anything that hinges on playing the card is above the line, even if it doesn't come into effect immediately.

Ancestral Crypt seems odd to me. The +1 Card is weird, and the VP seems tacked on.

13
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Strictly Better
« on: June 19, 2019, 06:23:40 pm »
I can't tell if you're joking or not. I was talking about Coppers, not Estates.
Cathedral trashes 0-1 Coppers and 2-3 Estates on reshuffles 0 and 1. You're caring about that 0-1 Coppers pretty disproportionately.

I'm not caring about the 0-1 Coppers you have to trash on shuffles 0 and 1, I'm caring about the 7 Coppers you nearly always have to trash before the game ends. I don't know why you're talking as if Cathedral's effect ends after you trash your Estates.

14
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Strictly Better
« on: June 18, 2019, 10:45:54 pm »
And you're overselling it so much that it's ridiculous. Cathedral is not the same as "gain a Lab each turn". It eventually forces you to trash good things. And trashing Copper reduces your buying power if you do it enough without buying anything better.

I didn't say it was "gain a Lab each turn", I said it was "three Labs (and more)", which it is. If you think that trashing all of your Coppers without buying anything better is a valid thing that happens in games between human players, then I would suggest re-evaluating that worldview.

You're missing the point. With Cathedral you have to spend time and $ replacing the payload you're trashing. You don't have to do that if you're just gaining Labs.

The thing you're missing is that even the "baseline" Cathedral strategy is fast enough that you will spend very few turns trashing Silvers or other weak payload. If you get to that point where you are repeatedly re-buying payload, either there was a card that horribly slowed down the board or you misplayed really badly.

Lab is different than trashing for dozens of reasons, of course.

I was talking about Coppers, not Silvers. Trashing Copper has the (big) upside of making it easier to draw, with the downside of losing some payload. Gaining a Lab, though, is the best of both worlds: you get more draw without losing that $. That's the crucial difference.

You're missing the point. With Cathedral you have to spend time and $ replacing the payload you're trashing. You don't have to do that if you're just gaining Labs.

I don't think you should be spending time and $ replacing the Estates you're trashing.

I can't tell if you're joking or not. I was talking about Coppers, not Estates.

15
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Strictly Better
« on: June 18, 2019, 06:18:53 pm »
And you're overselling it so much that it's ridiculous. Cathedral is not the same as "gain a Lab each turn". It eventually forces you to trash good things. And trashing Copper reduces your buying power if you do it enough without buying anything better.

I didn't say it was "gain a Lab each turn", I said it was "three Labs (and more)", which it is. If you think that trashing all of your Coppers without buying anything better is a valid thing that happens in games between human players, then I would suggest re-evaluating that worldview.

You're missing the point. With Cathedral you have to spend time and $ replacing the payload you're trashing. You don't have to do that if you're just gaining Labs.

16
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 17, 2019, 10:47:50 pm »


Changed it so it only works for non-variable VP. Most of the time you'll just be using it on Provinces anyway. And it works for Colonies, so that's interesting.

17
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 17, 2019, 10:36:08 pm »


Tithe
Reaction - $1
When you buy any Action card in the supply, you may overpay for it. If you do, discard this card from your hand. Trash two cards from your hand for each $1 you overpaid by.
-
When you buy this, +1 buy and put this into your hand.

The discarding should be before the overpaying. Otherwise there's no accountability.

18
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Project - card parallels
« on: June 17, 2019, 08:01:24 pm »
Strictly better makes only sense for something like Mining Village > Village as there is no instance (somebody could probably construct a weird exception) in which the former is worse than the latter.

Possession :P

19
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Strictly Better
« on: June 17, 2019, 07:52:56 pm »
It's a meme-statement people started emphasizing to make fun of Awaclus's tendency to deliberately miscommunicate in order to make some tangentially related point several posts later. Awaclus still uses it in earnest.

You're underselling the analogy so much that it's ridiculous. Sure, people like to nitpick about things because god forbid anyone actually understands how to win games when you could instead just be Technically Correct on f.ds, but that doesn't invalidate anything.

And you're overselling it so much that it's ridiculous. Cathedral is not the same as "gain a Lab each turn". It eventually forces you to trash good things. And trashing Copper reduces your buying power if you do it enough without buying anything better.

I think we need a new term for what people often mean (or least what I do) when they say a card is strictly better than another -- that is, having a similar effect while being better enough of the time that it ought to cost more than that card. For example, Noble Brigand is "comparatively better" (that's the term I'm using now) than Thief, hence part of why Thief isn't in 2E, even though it's definitely not strictly better.

Even if we do need this term, Noble Brigand vs. Thief really isn't a good example to pick. Noble Brigand can't steal Kingdom Treasures or Heirlooms, which are actually the biggest reasons to get Thief in the first place.

20
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: scolapasta's cards
« on: June 17, 2019, 07:43:44 pm »
Convent seems pretty useless, to be honest. By the time you're greening, you don't really care if your deck has junk in it. The crucial time to trash is in the beginning, way before you're buying Victory cards. The main edge cases would be Mill or if you want to get rid of some Curses.

21
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 16, 2019, 11:49:03 am »
These alternate wording suggestions reveal that the card is actually just a Duplicate with the downsides of being one-shot, having to be in your hand at the right time, and only working on Victory cards. But with the upside of not having a price limit.

Right, I didn't go with "gain a copy of it" because it's too similar to something that already exists. It would also have the important side effect of draining piles, which I think goes against the spirit of the idea.

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 15, 2019, 09:52:48 pm »


Attempt at a Throne Room for Victory cards.

Really Cool concept! I feel like there's some ambiguities on what to do with alt victory cards. If you do gardens, you have to count the size of your deck at that time? Distant Lands would be worth 0? Have you thought about different ways of dealing with that (Like OR 1vp for every 2$ it costs...)?

I think it's stronger than it looks. In many ways it's a much stronger Island. In deck-drawing engines, the end-game focusing on provinces, you would almost never buy duchies. In fact, buying 2 of them could be better than 1 province since you only have to line up one before the end of the game to get all those VP back and if you line up 2, well you got a lot more VP. I'm thinking this could potentially cost 6, especially if you add some clause to deal with non-standard victory cards.

But yeah, really cool card and idea! And it really fits best as a pure-reaction card.

Also a big fan of this one. My wording suggestions would be to say either of the following:

(1) "When you gain a Victory card not worth scaling {VP}". "Scaling VP" is about the closest official lingo I could find in the Dominion manual.
(2) "When you gain a Basic Victory card". More straightforward, but eliminates interactions with a few Kingdom Victory cards that don't have scaling VP.

The idea was that it gives you VP based on what the Victory card is worth the moment you gain it, so yes, for Gardens you would count the size of your deck, and so on, and yes, Distant Lands would not get you any VP. This is what I was trying to get across with the wording "for each VP it is worth in your deck" - that is, how much it's worth at this very moment within the context of being in your deck. I do think it's more interesting if it works for any Victory card. Then again, for something like Silk Road it's going to be really ugly if you don't know off the top of your head how many Victory cards you have. You'd have to do something like look through both your deck and discard pile, then reshuffle your deck. I'll probably change it.

23

24
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 14, 2019, 06:28:20 pm »


Attempt at a Throne Room for Victory cards.

25
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 13, 2019, 10:48:12 pm »
I have a question. Can we do a pure reaction card that wouldn't need the type reaction?

Certain "reaction" conditions (on-gain, on-buy, on-trash) do not add the type of "reaction" to the card. Would it be permissible to make a card that only uses those conditions instead of the other reaction-conditions (when an attack is played, when a province is purchased, when this is discarded, etc) that normally add the "reaction" type?

Such a card would technically need no type, but the reaction type would be helpful to remind you, hey this thing does things when you gain it and buy it, etc.

Well, the only thing the Reaction type ever does is it colors the card blue. Mechanically, none of the existing Reactions would have to be Reactions.

I sort of disagree. The Reaction type is necessary if the reaction is to something completely unrelated to the card itself; e.g. "when an Attack card is played", "when you gain a card". The Reaction type lets you know that it can do something during a phase when cards normally can't do anything.

The way it's officially used is inconsistent, though, because it's also used when the card reacts to certain things that happen to itself ("when you discard this", "when something reveals this") but not other things ("when you gain this", "when you trash this").

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