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Messages - Jeebus

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1
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: May 19, 2019, 03:36:35 pm »
I don't know if it was the only reason, but without that clause, you could play Royal Carriage infinitely, calling it to reply itself each time. One could argue that this is no different than how you can reveal Moat infinitely for no effect; though it actually matters with Conspirator or any of the token bonuses.

That is a very good point. Citadel has a built-in limit of once.

2
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: May 19, 2019, 03:22:39 pm »
Maybe this has been addressed somewhere, but I can't find it. Why does Royal Carriage have a clause that it can't replay a card that has left play, while Citadel does not have that clause?

3
Rules Questions / Re: Fleet extra turns
« on: May 06, 2019, 11:31:28 am »
On another matter, when is it determined which players get the extra turn, at the nominal game end or when it would be their Fleet turn? Possession could cause a player to buy Fleet after "game end" but before it would be their Fleet turn.

This was actually answered up-thread. You could also take a look at the document in my sig for the complete rulings about Fleet.

4
Rules Questions / Re: Fleet extra turns
« on: May 01, 2019, 07:57:58 pm »
To all, who seem to think that i want to exclude non Fleet player from the Fleet round totally: quite contrary i was always without doubt and said so that they still participate, just only they should not get any turns.:

Right, you did say that.

Only players with Fleet get Fleet turns, but that doesn't mean that the other extra turns only apply to players with Fleet.
That contradicts your own words from above.

No, you're failing to understand my point. Which quote do you mean?

As I said, there is an extra round of Fleet turns. This doesn't mean that there are only Fleet turns. Indeed, the FAQ explicitly says that that is not the case: There can also be other extra turns. But the card only says who gets Fleet turns. It doesn't say who gets or doesn't get other extra turns. Neither does the FAQ. The card gives turns to Fleet players, not to other players. But it doesn't regulate any other actitivity in the extra round.

5
Rules Questions / Re: Fleet extra turns
« on: May 01, 2019, 01:09:33 pm »
Back to Fleet: After the game ends, there's an extra round of turns just for players with this. Nothing else. No bracketed text. No italicized text. Nothing additional about it in the rules of rulebook. From FAQ we get to know only that other extra turns happen and the last player with Fleet does not get other extra turns. No explicit statement about non-Fleet-players.

So as average player i am stuck with generale rule "do exactly as written, nothing more, nothing less". I would deduct from FAQ i can generate extra turns by Outpost and Mission (if i am not the last Fleet-player) during my Fleet turn and if the player to my left hand has also Fleet i can posses him/her/them (if i am not the last Fleet-player)

I disagree about the FAQ. When I read it, there was no doubt it my mind that extra turns from Outpost etc will happen for all players. Here it is:

Quote
The extra turns go in order starting with the next player after the one that just took a turn. Other extra turns, such as from Outpost (in Seaside) can happen in-between those turns...

In the first sentence, the "extra turns" (unfortunate phrase) referred to are the Fleet turns. Other extra turns can happen in between.

The card says "there's an extra round of turns just for players with this". I take the card text to mean that there is an extra round consisting of just turns for Fleet players. I interpret "just for players with this" to refer to the turns, not the round. So it does not mean an extra round just for Fleet players. This is evident when you think of what that would mean, as others have pointed out: All non-Fleet players have to participate in this round, or they couldn't even receive a Curse from Witch. (This is also heavily implied in the FAQ, because it says that non-Fleet players don't sort their cards and count VP until the end.)

So there is an extra round of Fleet turns. The card says or implies nothing about other extra turns, but the FAQ does. It says that other extra turns can happen in between. Only players with Fleet get Fleet turns, but that doesn't mean that the other extra turns only apply to players with Fleet.

6
Rules Questions / Re: Fleet extra turns
« on: April 30, 2019, 11:08:19 am »
Yet one more way of saying it:

If any player has bought Fleet, there will be a Fleet round after the game would normally end. Only players with Fleet get a normal turn in this round. Otherwise it is exactly as if the game is extented for one normal round.*

*except that these turns don't count for tie-breaker.

7
Rules Questions / Re: Fleet extra turns
« on: April 29, 2019, 03:58:37 pm »
Do i interpret correctly that the player triggering end condition get extra turns triggered in that same turn, then the other players with Fleet get their "normal" turns plus possible extra turns, but the ending player gets only their "normal" turn without extra turns triggered during that?

Yes, if the "ending player" is indeed the last player to play their Fleet turn. The last player to play their Fleet turn, whoever that may be, does not get any extra turns after that.

8
Rules Questions / Re: Fleet extra turns
« on: April 29, 2019, 03:53:25 pm »
I assume Possession works only if the left player has bought Fleet, correct? It does not skip similar Masquerade players which did not buy Fleet?

If Alice plays Possession and ends the game normally, she will Possess Bob - as long as somebody has bought Fleet. First Bob gets a turn (Possessed by Alice), then all Fleet-players get a turn, starting with Bob and ending with Alice.

If Alice ends the game normally, and then Bob plays Possession on his Fleet turn, Bob Possesses the next player - as long as there are more Fleet turns. If Bob is the last Fleet player, he won't Possess anybody, because the game (Fleet round) ends immediately after his Fleet turn. If Alice plays Possession on her Fleet turn, she will not Possess anybody, because she is the last player.

9
Another good thing about Bandit Camp that hasn't been mentioned explicitly, is that it gives you extra, good cards in your deck (Spoils), which of course can't be trashed, but which also provide padding so that Knight attacks won't as easily hit the Bandit Camp. A Gold is always just one, vulnerable card.

10
Rules Questions / Re: Why did Summons fail on Blessed Village?
« on: April 27, 2019, 03:06:51 pm »
Summon tracks Blessed Village from the moment it gains it. Gaining BV, you put it in your discard pile. Then the BV's when-gain ability triggers. You gain a Wisp, putting it on top of the BV. This makes Summon lose track of the BV. Now you move on to Summon's next instruction, setting aside the gained BV. But Summon can't move the BV, since it lost track of it.

11
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Innovation / Skulk interaction
« on: April 21, 2019, 11:54:30 pm »
For some reason this does not apply to hands. You can gain a card with Transmogrify (or Mine if you like), physically shuffle your hand around, then react with a Watchtower to trash the gained card.

What I posit is that "top of discard pile" and "rest of discard pile" are different locations WRT lose-track.

Hasn't Watchtower already lost track of it in the first place because you gained it to your hand rather than your discard as usual?

No, gaining to hand or to top of deck does not cause lose-track. (This has been known since Seaside with Sea Hag/Watchtower.) Only movement after gaining causes lose-track.

12
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Innovation / Skulk interaction
« on: April 19, 2019, 01:24:24 pm »
Well, your hand, just like the trash pile, is an unordered pile of visible cards - unlike your discard pile and deck.

13
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Innovation / Skulk interaction
« on: April 18, 2019, 06:22:17 pm »
Ah, theory of relativity messing up Dominion rules as usual.

But no, lose track has always applied to being covered up as much as to literal movement.

I know that the rule specifies that it also applies to covering up cards. What I meant was that you could perfectly well view this as merely a clarification. "The bottom of the pile", "the top of the pile", "position x from the top/bottom of the pile" are defined locations in Dominion. Covering up a card changes this defined position. Actually I always took this as the reason why it's lost track of. If it's considered to have the same position only with a card on top of it, I don't see why the rule couldn't just be that it's not lost track of.

14
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Innovation / Skulk interaction
« on: April 18, 2019, 04:18:36 pm »
Is this always a thing? Card A looses track of card B because another card goes on top, even if card B doesn't move?

You could say that card B did move, because it doesn't have the same location anymore, on top of the pile.

15
Rules Questions / Re: Necromancing a Mining Village?
« on: April 14, 2019, 02:32:45 pm »
Actually the rules for Necromancer also clarifies this, from the Nocturne rulebook:
Quote
Necromancer can be used on a card that trashes itself when played; if the card checks to see if it was trashed (such as Pixie), it was not, but if the card does not check (such as Tragic Hero), it will function normally.

16
Rules Questions / Re: Trashing an Estate for Pirate Ship
« on: April 09, 2019, 09:54:47 pm »
Or Inherit Crown, with cost reduction.

17
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)
« on: April 06, 2019, 12:39:44 pm »
The artist's intent is one thing, but honestly, if this is about visibility, I'm not sure we should count cards where the gender is not visible. I know now that Tormentor is a woman, but I wouldn't have without this thread.

Fair point. Of course to me Tormentor seemed like a woman when I studied it, but then again, so did Devil's Workshop. But in any case I think I'll just go with what is known here.

I just changed Devil's Workshop from female to male and updated the latest two lists.

18
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)
« on: April 04, 2019, 07:55:58 pm »
Not so sure about the headdress. I assumed it was a coif with a pillbox hat or a hat with a wide band. Something like this picture of Dante (who I'm pretty sure is male!)
https://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/a/andrea/castagno/2_famous/7dante.html



Okay, I concede that it's not as straight-forward as I thought. But I still don't think that the kind of bag hat that Dante is wearing is the same as on Market. To me it looks like the Market person is wearing a fillet, which was typically worn by women.

19
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)
« on: April 04, 2019, 03:32:29 pm »
Tormentor is a woman. Devil's Workshop is a man. Time does not permit looking them all up for you.

Thanks. The one I'm most curious about is Flag Bearer. (After that, Skulk.)

I'm not sure why Market is listed as "both". If that figure with the money is supposed to be female it's clearly not doing the job, lol. That card is truly a wasted opportunity.

I'm quite sure that frightening creature with the purse is a woman. The headdress gives it away.

20
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)
« on: April 04, 2019, 10:53:42 am »
I think all Bard, Donate, Devil's Workshop and Tormentor are ambiguous. I mean, they could be women, but I wouldn't say they have to.

Zooming in on Bard and looking at the face and hands, I have no doubt that it's a woman. The others are less clear. I think my decision for Tormentor was based on what seems like breasts.

Maybe Donald can shed some light on Tormentor and Devil's Workshop? Others that maybe were based on instructions could be Plan, Wild Hunt, Skulk, Flag Bearer, Hideout and Barracks.

21
Rules Questions / Re: Idol Count during Resolution
« on: April 03, 2019, 08:29:09 pm »
You're right that this isn't spelled out anywhere for Idol. For someone who isn't used to Dominion's clear and literal card abilities - especially considering how common it is in games that the rules are written in a fuzzy way and you have to deduce the meaning - it's understandable that the way Idol is worded could make you think that you first play all your Idols before you resolve them.

But the way every card works in Dominion, is that you play it, then you resolve it. You don't wait until you've played other cards in-between. Idol is no different. You do exactly as the card says when you play it. It's also important to keep this in mind with other cards and interactions, or you will get several things wrong.

22
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)
« on: April 03, 2019, 12:50:23 pm »
By what evidence do you claim the person in the foreground of Barracks is male? And are all the people in the background also male?

The blurry people in the background don't matter; see the description of my criteria above.

But good question about the foreground person. There's at least one other card like that - Arena. I was mainly going by what most artists would intend to be portraying with a person in armor from medieval times. (Barracks should have a question mark like Arena.)

I was also assuming that women didn't usually wear this kind of armor, which is supported by this interesting article: "If we are talking about actual medieval history, women wearing armor was rare and women in plated suits of armor even rarer." But since Dominion art puts women in all kinds of roles that were rare in actual history, maybe this is not a good reason.

I might be that Arena and Barracks should be "unknowns". My first reason still stands though, and is connected to what I wrote above about feminine/masculine features and artist's intent.

23
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)
« on: April 02, 2019, 11:13:17 pm »
Are you sure the Donate person is a female?

No; there are many of these I'm not 100% sure of. But I think it's reasonable to go with how an artist would choose to portray a man or a woman - i.e. assuming that there's no reason why an artist (in this context) would choose to depict a man with feminine features or a woman with masculine ones.

24
Isn't this whole thing just what the Dominion Online people have already done?

I see some similarities but more differences. In any case, it would be the other way around, since I did this years before the current Dominion Online.

25
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Male and female cards (again)
« on: April 02, 2019, 03:29:50 pm »
Here is the list updated for Renaissance.

BASE (2nd edition)
Male: Bureaucrat, Laboratoty, Militia, Mine, Moneylender, Smithy, Vassal
Female: Artisan, Bandit, Harbinger, Merchant, Poacher, Sentry, Witch
Both: Festival, Market(?)
Unknown: Library

INTRIGUE (2nd edition)
Male: Baron, Conspirator, Duke, Ironworks, Minion, Nobels, Pawn, Replace, Steward, Swindler, Torturer
Female: Courtyard, Diplomat, Harem, Lurker, Patrol
Both: Courtier, Shanty Town (both are men, or one of each), Wishing Well (both are female, or one of each)
Unknown: -

SEASIDE
Male: Ambassador, Bazaar, Cutpurse, Embargo, Fishing Village, Haven, Lookout, Merchant Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Salvager, Smugglers, Tactician, Wharf
Female: Explorer, Sea Hag
Both: Native Village
Unknown: -

ALCHEMY
Male: Alchemist, Apothecary, Golem, Herbalist, Transmute
Female: Scrying Pool, Possession
Unknown: Apprentice, Familiar

PROSPERITY
Male: Bank, Bishop, Counting House, Goons, Loan, Mint, Mountebank, Venture
Female: Expand, Forge, Peddler
Both: Grand Market, King's Court, Rabble
Unknown: -

CORNUCOPIA
Male: Horse Traders, Hunting Party, Tournament
Female: Fairgrounds, Farming Village, Fortune Teller, Harvest, Princess, Young Witch
Both: Followers, Menagerie
Unknown: Jester

HINTERLANDS
Male: Cartographer, Develop, Haggler, Jack of All Trades, Mandarin, Margrave, Noble Brigand, Nomad Camp, Scheme, Spice Merchant, Stables
Female: Duchess, Oracle, Trader
Both: Embassy
Unknown: -

DARK AGES
Male: Armory, Bandit Camp, Beggar, Count, Graverobber, Hermit/Madman, Hunting Grounds, Ironmonger, Junk Dealer, Marauder, Necropolis, Pillage, Procession, Rogue, Sage, Scavenger, Squire, Urchin/Mercenary, Vagrant, Wandering Minstrel
Female: Market Square, Mystic
Both: Band of Misfits, Survivors, Knights
Unknown: Death Cart, Cultist, Forager

GUILDS
Male: Advisor, Butcher, Candlestick Maker, Doctor, Herald, Journeyman, Merchant Guild, Stonemason, Taxman
Female: Baker, Soothsayer
Both: Plaza
Unknown: -

ADVENTURES
Male: Alms, Borrow, Bridge Troll, Duplicate, Ferry, Giant, Hireling, Miser, Pathfinding, Peasant/Soldier/Fugitive/Disciple/Teacher, Quest, Ratcatcher, Raze, Training, Transmogrify, Travelling Fair, Wine Merchant
Female: Artificer, Caravan Guard, Guide, Lost Arts, Messenger, Page/Treasure Hunter/Warrior/Hero/Champion, Ranger, Save, Storyteller, Swamp Hag
Both: Ball, Bonfire, Pilgrimage, Plan(?), Royal Carriage, Scouting Party
Unknown: Raid

EMPIRES
Male: Arena(?), Battlefield, Catapult/Rocks, Chariot Race, Conquest, Delve, Dominate, Gladiator/Fortune, Legionary, Overlord, Patrician/Emporium, Royal Blacksmith, Sacrifice, Tax, Triumph, Triumphal Arch
Female: Baths, Donate, Enchantress, Engineer, Farmers' Market, Groundskeeper, Wedding, Windfall
Both: Advance, Annex, Banquet, Basilica, Salt the Earth, Settlers/Bustling Village
Unknown: Encampment/Plunder, Bandit Fort, Wild Hunt

NOCTURNE
Male: Cobbler, Delusion, Devil's Workshop, Fear, Fool, Greed, Haunting, Leprechaun, Locusts, Necromancer, Night Watchman, Raider, Tracker, Tragic Hero, Werewolf, Zombie Mason, Zombie Spy
Female: Bard, Conclave, Druid, Exorcist, Ghost/Haunted Mirror, Guardian, Misery, Pixie, Pooka, Shepherd, Tormentor(?), Vampire/Bat, Zombie Apprentice
Both: Blessed Village
Unknown: Changeling, Imp, Skulk

RENAISSANCE
Male: Barracks(?), Flag Bearer, Inventor, Patron, Priest, Recruiter, Road Network, Seer, Sinister Plot, Villain
Female: Border Guard/Lantern, Experiment, Old Witch, Research, Scholar, Sculptor, Silk Merchant, Swashbuckler, Treasurer/Key
Both: Acting Troupe, Capitalism, Fair, Improve, Lackeys, Piazza
Unknown: City Gate(?), Hideout

PROMOS
Male: Black Market, Dismantle, Envoy, Governor, Prince
Female: Summon
Both: -
Unknown: Sauna

Totals (with "Both" included):
MALE: 170.5 = 65.3%
FEMALE: 90.5 = 34.7%

UNKNOWN: 17

Breakdown for each set, percentage of female cards:
BASE (2E): 50.0%
INTRIGUE (2E): 34.2%
SEASIDE: 14.7%
ALCHEMY: 28.6%
PROSPERITY: 32.1%
CORNUCOPIA: 63.6%
HINTERLANDS: 23.3%
DARK AGES: 14.0%
GUILDS: 20.8%
ADVENTURES: 39.4%
EMPIRES: 36.7%
NOCTURNE: 43.5%
RENAISSANCE: 48.0%
PROMOS: 16.7%

Update 2019-04-06: Changed Devil's Workshop (Nocturne) from female to male.

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