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Messages - Jeebus

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1
Rules Questions / Re: Reserve Cards Timing
« on: December 14, 2018, 12:05:28 pm »
However, Ratcatcher says "At the start of your turn..." so it couldn't be called immediately.

If you have a Prince'd Throne Room, and you start your turn by playing Ratcatcher twice with the Throne Room, then you can call the Ratcatcher immediately while it's still the start of your turn. Same with Guide.

Instead of Prince + Throne Room, it also works with Ghost (as LaLight posted), Summon and Piazza. All of these can play a Reserve card like Ratcatcher, Guide, Transmogrify and Teacher at the start of your turn, enabling you to immediately call it.

2
Rules Questions / Re: Clean-up order of operations
« on: December 13, 2018, 04:58:29 pm »
Encampment potentially also does something at the start of Cleanup, but this rarely interacts with the other effects (you might want to put it on its pile on top of a Plunder before Improving a Poor House, for example).

I think the best order is Encampments, then Improve then Walled Village.

Innovation might mix this up, if the Improved card can be played, but I can't come up with a scenario where this makes Walled Village after Improve/Innovation not topdeckable when it was before.

Duplicate! You have WV and Improve in play. You could now topdeck WV. Let's say you don't. You Improve the Improve into a Monument and play it, then you Duplicate the Monument. You now have 3 Actions in play, so you can't topdeck the WV.
EDIT: or Royal Carriage, to replay the Monument.

3
Rules Questions / Re: Clean-up order of operations
« on: December 13, 2018, 04:47:11 pm »
Even before Improve, old Scheme was worse because of more options, in a much simpler way: You could choose a Duration that would stay in play.

4
Rules Questions / Re: Clean-up order of operations
« on: December 13, 2018, 03:28:08 pm »
Scheme makes no difference here, whether with old or new wording. By the time you discard a card, and then optionally topdeck it with Scheme, it's no longer start of Clean-up, so it's too late to do anything with Walled Village.

But the interesting question is the interaction between Walled Village and Improve. The question is, what does "At the start of Clean-up, if you have this and no more than one other Action card in play" mean, timing-wise?

Let's say you have 3 Action cards in play. Both Walled Village and Improve trigger at the start of Clean-up, so you can choose the order. If you choose WV first, there's no question, you can't topdeck it. But if you choose Improve first, and trash a card, you have 2 Actions in play. Can you topdeck WV now? I would say yes, since it's still technically start of clean-up - you're still in the process of doing "start of clean-up" abilities.

After you've resolved every "start of clean-up" ability, you continue with clean-up, which means discarding cards. Scheme triggers now. As I said, it's no longer start of clean-up. (Scheme v.1 also triggered at start of clean-up, but all you did was choose then.)

5
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 13, 2018, 11:21:54 am »
Thanks for your feedback!

Panniers has me a bit confused.  If you use the reaction effect, do you get +1 card?  I'm also not sure why it returns a card rather than simply trashing it.  That's a valid choice, I'm just not sure what it adds really.  I think the on-play effect could be buffed.

Yes, you get +1 card. Compare with Caravan Guard.
Returning adds a subtle difference to the game, because cursers will continue working.

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Law, by contrast seems too weak.  For comparison, consider Catapult.  Catapult not only gives $1, but also provides a benefit upon trashing copper.

You might be right. I think reducing the cost requirements to $2 and $3 could be a nice fix. Now you will draw terminally while trashing estates. After that you need to feed it silvers or something.

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Midway seems pretty interesting, although not strong.  The reordering ability seems like a fairly important part of what makes it good.

If you get two right, it's at least a cantrip, or Necro if you need the actions, or Moat if you have enough actions. So at least you get choices. If you get three right, you can choose between Village, Lab, Smithy and +3 Actions. If you get just one right, you're crying. Your deck composition and tracking will both matter.

Quote
I have issues with Alderman.  It seems kind of slow to play with, and without good reason.  Most often, you reveal at least one action, and now Alderman is an expensive village, hooray.  Maybe you reveal a victory card and can play your Mill, making Alderman a double village.  But so what?  I'm not sure what Alderman is really for, but honestly it sounds weaker and less interesting than a vanilla card that just says "+1 card, +3 actions".

It rewards decks with several types, that's what's supposed to make it interesting. Also you need actions in your hand and in your deck. Action-Reaction, Action-Victory, Action-Attack, Action-Duration, Action-Reserve, Action-Traveller... It might be too narrow to be good in most kingdoms though. Reserve or Duration heavy kingdoms seem the best.

Quote
I also have issues with Prowler.  Mainly it's a glorified woodcutter.  Or if you're buying treasure, and have extra buys, it's a glorified treasure.  I think you could do more with a simpler card, e.g. an action/treasure that only gives +Buy if you play it in your action phase.

Woodcutter is a fine card, and this is certainly different enough. The top part is better than Woodcutter. For the bottom part, maybe it doesn't need to discard itself? If you gain several Treasures, you could play them all. You would be able to buy all the Capitals though, getting +$1 more for each one! (But then you would be in crazy debt, so I doubt that's a good play most times.)
Even without that change, this card is crazy when you buy Fortune (EDIT: not really, you won't usually have any $ left for it to double). Also very good with Idol, Scepter and Crown.

6
While I can see what changed in the rules about the VP player mat, I am curious as to how the changes were 'important', as the only difference I can detect is that putting VP on a mat is not 'required'

With Possession v.2 (not the current version), the Possessing player got all tokens that the Possessed player would take. This did not include tokens that the Possessed players would put on mats/cards/piles (Pirate Ship tokens, Adventures tokens, and VP tokens and Debt tokens that go on cards/piles). Without the rules change about the mats, it wouldn't have included those VP tokens either.

7
Related question; does second edition Prosperity still have mats? I don't see any mention of it on the Wiki. Empires does not have mats; right? Which would imply that Donald decided that VP tokens don't need mats; and thus why bother having mats in second edition Prosperity?

Actually it was an important rules change that Empires didn't have mats. Or to put it more accurately, it was an important rules change that VP tokens are not put on a mat. Instead, you take VP tokens (and then might put them optionally on something like for instance a VP token mat). That rules change mattered for the version of Possession introduced in Empires.

But then Possession was changed again, so it doesn't matter anymore.

But Prosperity was released in the meantime. I checked now, and yes Prosperity 2E does come with the 8 mats. But the rules for the mats are changed.
Prosperity 1E:
This expansion comes with 8 player mats and VP tokens for use with the Bishop, Goons, and Monument Kingdom cards. [...] A player takes a mat of his choice as soon as he needs one.
"+X VP" - The player takes X VP tokens. [...] When a player first takes VP tokens, he takes a player mat to put them on.

Prosperity 2E:
Prosperity has player mats for tracking VP tokens. You do not have to use one; if you do, take one when you first have VP tokens.
Cards say "+1 VP" (or other amounts) to indicate that a player takes VP tokens.

8
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 12, 2018, 05:04:14 pm »
Ok, I changed Shaft and Alderman.

9
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 12, 2018, 03:42:34 pm »
Seems like you would need specifically bad luck

Hey, that's my specialty!
Maybe I'm just annoyed at getting The Wind's Gift after I have drawn my deck, which I've experienced several times.



I really feel like I've played so many games where a sifter has forced me to discard more than it drew when I'm drawing my deck. For just a few words extra the card gets rid of that drawback.

I don't have as much experience, but I would think you would simply not play the sifter in that case.

You play it if you have a key card left in your deck which is more important than having to discard a few Treasures or something.

10
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 12, 2018, 03:30:27 pm »
I really feel like I've played so many games where a sifter has forced me to discard more than it drew when I'm drawing my deck. For just a few words extra the card gets rid of that drawback.

EDIT: That gave me an idea to make the card a bit better and more interesting: Draw 4 Cards. If you did, discard 4 cards.

11
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 12, 2018, 01:50:15 pm »
I don't understand Shaft. Compare it to Warehouse... increasing the sifting to 4 instead of 3, and making it so that it doesn't punish you for overdrawing with it, can't possibly make up for it being terminal. It sounds super weak, to the point that I would rarely buy this if it cost . Am I missing something?

Yeah, at first I had it at +5 Cards, but I thought it was too strong for $3. Remember that Warehouse increases your hand by 2 (before you choose which to discard), while Shaft increases it by 3, so 50% more. Not sure if +5 Cards is too strong, since that's double the cards on Warehouse.

12
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 12, 2018, 01:45:05 pm »
I still think I'd only buy Alderman if there weren't any other villages (or tacos or splitters or enchiladas or whatever)

I think it would depend a lot on what kind of (and how many) multi-type cards there are. In the right kingdom, it could let you play 3 cards or more. But maybe it actually needs to be a cantrip. I wonder if that would make it too strong in certain kingdoms.

13
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: [Release] Dominion: Antiquities!
« on: December 12, 2018, 01:17:01 pm »
Curio doesn't set aside the gained card before playing it (like Innovation). This means that you can trash it with Watchtower and play it from trash. Since Curio lost track of it, it would stay in trash. Or you could top-deck it with Royal Seal, Watchtower, Tracker, etc, and play it without moving it into play. Probably not what you want.

14
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 12, 2018, 12:04:17 pm »
So nobody has any more comments? At least I guess this means that these cards are pretty original, since nobody has said that they are too similar to existing fan cards.

I really agree with what Asper said here. Of course, you can't keep doing Reserves and VP token cards, etc, because you can't add those components to every expansion for the sake of a few cards. But you can do base mechanics, and I agree that there is a lot left there. This thread was my attempt, but I think there are plenty of ideas left. From Asper's cards there are at least: Alley, Decree, Sawmill, Shrine, Well, Farmer, Gallows, Heir, Assemble, Cliffside Village (too similar to Hideout now?), Craftsmen, Maze, Sanctuary, Sultan, Tribunal, Werewolf, Meadow. I'm sure there are plenty of others in this forum too. I'm sure we could make a set with around 25 cards of just base-mechanic cards.

15


Buying means you gain it.
Better: "During your buy phase you may buy this by removing 5 tokens from your Coffers. It cannot be gained in any other way."

16
Merchant Wagon is way too good. Choosing Sentry gives you +3 Cards, +1 Action, +1 Buy plus the trashing/sifting, plus kind of forcing your opponent to discard.

Beware that with self-trashers, nobody can gain them. Choose Mining Village and trash it. You're not able to set it aside, so it can't be gained. This way you get +3 Cards, +1 Buy, +2 Actions and +$2 every time you play Merchant Wagon until the Mining Villages run out!

I would recommend removing +2 Cards completely, or your opponent may discard just 1 card to gain it. Or maybe +1 Card, your opponent may discard 1.

17
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 01, 2018, 03:09:53 pm »
Ok, I made new versions of Panniers, Weaver, Privateer and Alderman (and did the cosmetic fix on Prowler).

18
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 01, 2018, 02:33:13 pm »
Quote
WEAVER - $5, Action
+3 Cards, +$3
Each other player draws 3 cards and discards 3 cards.

ALDERMAN - $5, Action
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, then discard them. For each different type on the revealed cards, you may play an Action card from your hand that has that type.

Weaver is overpowered. The sifting for the opponents is nice but doesn't totally compensate as it decreases in value with several plays. I'd try it with 3 Cards and 2 Coins.

Thanks. Yes, I think you're right. I was worried about that. Maybe increasing the cost to $6 could work instead. Weaver could favor money strats over engines quite often. In those cases you won't play it several times. But with 3+ players you could get the sifting benefit from several players, with lower value each time.

Quote
Alderman is a giant Necropolis and far too weak.

Wow, you're absolutely right. I mean, sometimes it could let you play 3 Action cards, or even more with multiple-type-cards, but I guess often it would be 2. And sometimes only 1 (or 0 if you're really unlucky). I've been considering giving you a choice of playing cards from your hand and from the revealed cards, but it gets clunky. Maybe revealing 4 cards could work. Another option could be giving +1 Action; this eliminates the risk of stopping the chain, like the Tribute problem (although Golem has the same risk). A third option is just adding +$2, so that it's more useful.

19
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 01, 2018, 02:22:55 pm »
Quote
PRIVATEER - $6, Treasure - Attack
+$1, +1 Buy
When you play this, choose one: Discard your hand and +4 Cards; or gain a Silver to your hand. Each other player does the same.

PANNIERS - $2, Action - Reaction
+1 Card
---
When another player plays an Attack, you may play this from your hand, to return 1 card from your hand to the Supply.

MIDWAY - $3, Action
Say a type. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, and put them back in any order. For each card that has the said type, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Card.

PROWLER - $4, Action - Reaction
+1 Buy
Reveal cards from your deck until revealing a Treasure costing $1 or more. Put it into your hand and discard the rest.
---
When you gain a Treasure, you may discard this from your hand, to set the Treasure aside. If you did set it aside, play it.

These are really good! I agree with your comments on Privateer; it definitely needs either nerfed or made more expensive, also it could definitely use some kind of phrasing so that only players with five or more cards in hand discard.

Thanks for your feedback! Yes, Privateer needs a complete overhaul. I have considered many options now. The problem is also the lenght of the text, especially considering the clause about 5+ cards in hand, and the big coin symbol.

In the end I need to make it simpler. I thought that with a cost of $7 this might work:

PRIVATEER - $7, Treasure - Attack
+$1, +1 Buy
When you play this, discard your hand and +4 Cards, and each other player with 5 or more cards in hand does the same.


It's a bit similar to Minion, but the big difference is that you can't keep an engine going with it. You also can't defend against it with itself like you can with Minion. I think it could favor both money strategies and engines in certain kingdoms.

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Panniers is good in concept, but on boards with no attacks it is much weaker than other cards that protect from attacks; +1 Card is a Ruin! It could maybe make a split pile with Privateer, you know, to also nerf Privateer since it wouldn't be available as quickly.

I don't want to make split piles, since that's a new mechanic.
I'm not sure about this one. Moat is also rarely buyable in a kingdom with no attacks. It can sometimes be used just for draw when there is an abundance of actions, but as I said this is rare. I can't make Panniers into a cantrip. Giving it +2 cards can work, but then I can't have the simple text of "play this from your hand". Maybe +1 Card, +$1. The coin would be like the +Action on Caravan Guard, it doesn't do anything when played out of turn. But the coin hardly makes it more buyable with no Attacks...?

Quote
Midway should say name and named instead of say and said.

I'm not so sure. Cards have names and types. "Name a card" means to say a card name. "Name a type" would mean that card types have names. To me, "say a type" introduces less confusion. There has been no official card that does this, so who knows how Donald would have done it.

Quote
Prowler doesn't need to say discard this from your hand, it can just say discard this.

Good call.

20
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion Card Image Generator v1.5
« on: December 01, 2018, 01:43:59 pm »
I'm noticing that when I download the image, some problem occurs in my browser (Vivaldi), so that from now on, every time I re-focus the browser, it freezes for a few fractions of a second. After downloading 10-15 cards yesterday, my browser took 5 seconds to unfreeze every time I re-focused from another window. That means it's unusable of course. I had to delete all settings, bookmarks etc and build it up again. I downloaded one card now, and it's starting to happen again. I have never had this problem with any other web application. I have no idea where the problem lies.

EDIT: I have finally isolated the problem. It's in the History. It doesn't help to clear the history in the browser, however. I have to delete the actualy History file (from C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Local\Vivaldi\User Data\Default) and let Vivaldi rebuild it.

21
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: November 30, 2018, 07:03:35 pm »
Privateer is the one I'm most unsure about. You'll probably mostly choose the first option: you draw 4 more cards, potentially more Treasures, and you attack the others. Might be too good at $6. If you choose to gain a Silver, it's pretty much strictly better than Gold, but then you also give the other players a Silver in hand, so that gimps it enough maybe. (But fun for you if the others Moat, since they don't know what choice you will make.) The problem is if the first option is way better than Gold too; you only need to draw 2 coins worth of Treasure for it to be. Could this be costed $7?

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: November 30, 2018, 06:58:18 pm »
I thought of some card ideas, and here they are. To make them nicer to look at, I found some images and used Violet CLM's generator (thanks!).
The general idea was to think of more interesting stuff to do with just the base mechanics, so just given the base game rulebook.

I'd appreciate any feedback. If some of them are too similar to a fan card already created, I guess someone will tell me. None of these are tested!

Edit: Changed several of the cards. See text below for original versions.

                     

SHAFT v1 - $3, Action
+4 Cards
Discard 1 card for each card drawn.

SHAFT v2 - $3, Action
Draw 4 cards.
If you did, discard 4 cards.


PANNIERS v1- $2, Action - Reaction
+1 Card
---
When another player plays an Attack, you may play this from your hand, to return 1 card from your hand to the Supply.

PANNIERS v2: added to top: +$1

WEAVER v1 - $5, Action
+3 Cards, +$3
Each other player draws 3 cards and discards 3 cards.

WEAVER v2: increased price to $6

LAW - $4, Action
Trash a card from your hand. If it costs $3 or more, +3 Cards. If it costs $4 or more, +1 Action.

MIDWAY - $3, Action
Say a type. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, and put them back in any order. For each card that has the said type, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Card.

PRIVATEER v1 - $6, Treasure - Attack
+$1, +1 Buy
When you play this, choose one: Discard your hand and +4 Cards; or gain a Silver to your hand. Each other player does the same.

PRIVATEER v2 - $7, Treasure - Attack
+$1, +1 Buy
When you play this, discard your hand and +4 Cards, and each other player with 5 or more cards in hand does the same.


ALDERMAN v1 - $5, Action
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, then discard them. For each different type on the revealed cards, you may play an Action card from your hand that has that type.

ALDERMAN v2: added to top: +1 Action
ALDERMAN v3: also added to top: +1 Card

PROWLER - $4, Action - Reaction
+1 Buy
Reveal cards from your deck until revealing a Treasure costing $1 or more. Put it into your hand and discard the rest.
---
When you gain a Treasure, you may discard this from your hand, to set the Treasure aside. If you did set it aside, play it.


23
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: November 30, 2018, 03:48:31 pm »


This started out as a suggestion for Kudasai's Barbarian Village. Originally I wanted it to gain a Copper in order to be topdecked, but the obscure lose-track rule makes this impossible.

You can just write:
When you gain this or discard it from play, you may put it onto your deck. If you do, gain a Copper.
The only difference is that it will still work after the Coppers are out.  :P

24
Rules Questions / Re: Strange Inventor question
« on: November 27, 2018, 12:16:46 am »
But you did gain a card up to $4, that Trader brought it shouldn't matter as like with IW, because Inventor would only check if something was gained, not giving you something depending if it was a certain card or whatnot. As long as you got something gained, Inventor can proceed to the next task. Some Rule Master may correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty certain this should be the case.

If a card actually said, "gain a card costing up to $4; if you did, cards cost $1 less", then if you played it and used Trader to gain a Silver instead, you would actually not get the cost reduction. This is exactly like Ironworks + Trader.

25
I don't know how best to phrase it instead, but I think you should avoid the phrasing "play X as a Treasure".  When Crown first appeared on the scene, some people got confused about how it worked (primarily when played with Storyteller) because they thought in terms of playing it as an action or playing it as a treasure, instead of thinking in terms of playing it in a particular phase and then doing what it told them to do in that phase.

Perhaps "play X (because it is a Treasure)" might be an alternative phrasing.

I definitely thought about that, but I thought that it was better to just go for the most straight-forward wording. You can play a Treasure, so you choose X as that Treasure. Hopefully the people who were confused about that (if they read this thread) know how it works now.

EDIT: Well, I changed it now anyway. :)

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