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Rules Questions / Re: Why do Treasurer and Torturer work the way they do?
« on: October 04, 2021, 09:47:09 pm »
1) Let's say you have the Key, play Treasurer and choose not to trash or gain. Do you "Take the key" from yourself, or try to "Take the key" and fail, or run out of options (having rejected the first 2 and being unable to execute the third)

You try to take the Key, and then fail.

2) Another player plays a first edition Torturer and the Curse pile is empty. What's the way it actually works mechanically? Is it:

A) "I play Torturer." "Of the two options, I choose "gain a Curse", and I can't".


B) "I play Torturer. Either discard two cards..." "I choose not to", "...or gain a Curse", "I can't".

It's A. If it was B, Torturer would probably say something like "each other player may discard 2 cards. If they don't, they gain a Curse to their hand." There's a big difference between "choose one of x and y" and "you may x; if you don't, do y."

Is "(they may choose an option they can't do)" in the 2nd edition a clarification or a rule specific to the card?

It's a clarification. Torturer is the main time that the "you can choose a choice even if you know you will fail it" rule applies, so if any card needs that parenthetical, it's going to be Torturer.

Rules Questions / Re: Coffers Rules Change
« on: September 22, 2021, 10:55:10 am »
These changes are already on the TGG client

Do you have the card texts for Urchin, Merchant Guild and Patron? They don't seem to be in the Wiki, and as you note in the old Urchin post, the wording matters for how they play.

I don't recall an Urchin post; you mean Hermit? Donald X. hasn't announced those wordings yet. Most text changes are of course, going to be updated as sets get reprinted.

+1 Villager
+2 Coins
When you reveal this in an Action phase (using the word "reveal"), +1 Coffers.

Merchant Guild:
+1 Buy
+1 Coin
At the end of your Buy phase, +1 Coffers per card you bought this turn.

Also in general "while in play" is disappearing for "this turn." You may have noticed this change has already started with the Hermit errata I mentioned months ago.

I can't find any other card than Urchin that is "while in play" and "this turn". Are you talking about Way of the Frog? Improve? Treasury and Scheme? Scepter? (And, you or Donald, please post the new card texts.)

I don't understand, how is Urchin (or is that Hermit) special here? And how are Frog/Improve/Treasury/Scheme/Scepter relevant either?

The text changes are more like:

+1 Card
+1 Action
This turn, cards cost 1 less.

There are most likely going to be some random side effects (and I don't just mean the interactions with Throne Room and Ways). For example, I think the best Lighthouse wording is to just match Guardian (they currently work differently against Black Cat).

+1 Action
+1 Coin
At the start of your next turn, +1 Coin. Until then, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.

Dominion General Discussion / Dominion: Allies
« on: September 18, 2021, 12:54:07 pm »

Allies is the 14th expansion to Dominion. It has 400 cards, with 31 new Kingdom card piles. There are Allies that will do Favors for you, and split piles you can rotate.

It’s a celebration! People are dancing in the streets, and riding horses through the dancehalls. You’ve finally formed an alliance with the barbarians to the north. Instead of the streets running red with blood, they’ll run, well, the usual color, let’s not focus on what color the streets run. The point is, there’s peace. Sure negotiations were tricky. The barbarians are uncouth; they have no five-second rule and stick out the wrong finger when drinking tea. There are perks too though. They’ve given you skulls to drink mead out of, and spices to get rid of the skull aftertaste. And you’ve given them stuff in return: forks, mirrors, pants. It’s great for everyone. And with this treaty out of the way, you can get to work on your other neighbors. Soon, all the allies will be yours.

Rules Questions / Re: Coffers Rules Change
« on: September 17, 2021, 07:02:24 pm »
Is there a reason for Patron being phase-dependent rather than "if you haven't spent a Buy yet"? 

Remember that the wording needs to take into account that it's possible to reveal your own Patron on an opponent's turn. Also "when you reveal this in an Action phase" is shorter than 'when you reveal this, if you haven't spent a Buy yet this turn."

As the random Venture enjoyer of the board, that enabling combo was pretty nice.

Also kind of a bummer Merchant Guild isn't going to be enabled as a Way. Some good combos with wot Pig and others.

I'm sure someone is going to be sad that a random combo that-comes-up-1%-of-the-time is going to disappear, but I'm not worried about that, and DXV isn't worried either.

Rules Questions / Coffers Rules Change
« on: September 17, 2021, 05:54:20 pm »
To those of you not in the TGG discord server (the company making the mobile version of Dominion), the rules for Coffers are getting changed, and this change also requires errata to 2 cards.

The change: You can spend Coffers at any time during your turn.

The reason: The original rule was awful and goes against intuition. How often have you bought a card, and then either realized you didn't spend enough Coffers, or you spent too many?

Side effects include being able to use Coffers to power up action-phase Storytellers, and you can immediately use the Coffers that you get from Spices.

Now there are two cards that need errata because of this. The reasons why is an exercise for the reader (or you can just go to the wiki, where I explained why).
-Merchant Guild: It will give Coffers at the end of your buy phase, and is no longer a dividing line ability.
-Patron: Only gives Coffers during an Action phase.

Also in general "while in play" is disappearing for "this turn." You may have noticed this change has already started with the Hermit errata I mentioned months ago.

These changes are already on the TGG client, and it'll come to D.G uh eventually. Probably at the same time that the other endless list of errata comes out.

I'm sure someone is going to be sad that a random combo that-comes-up-1%-of-the-time is going to disappear, but I'm not worried about that, and DXV isn't worried either.

Rules Questions / Re: Citadel and Captain
« on: September 14, 2021, 03:23:44 pm »
I view Citadel as changing how cards are played, instead of actually playing a card. Citadel I think is now closer to a text-modifier instead of Royal Carriage. So in the Summon example, Citadel basically turns Summon's text into "at the start of your next turn, play it twice." And Captain becomes "play a non-Duration non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to 4 twice." And this is why the card you play with Captain doesn't go into play.

I don't see much to support this in the card text. And Donald has errataed away all "shape shifters", so it would be weird if he made Citadel into one. In any case, the thing is that Citadel says "play it twice instead". Whatever play effect it was, it's now "play it twice". Just like the first version of Trader, which did "gain a Silver instead" of whatever gain effect it was, and "gain a Silver" is literally that, take a Silver from the supply and put it in your discard pile, "play it twice" must be literally that.

I see what you mean by Trader, but I still don't see what you mean by Citadel playing a card. You said: "consider a Smithy set aside with Summon. Citadel is able to put it into play." Surely the thing that's able to put the Smithy into play is Summon? Why is Citadel playing a card that Summon is trying to play? And how does this lead to a Captain'd Smithy going into your play area?

Rules Questions / Re: Citadel and Captain
« on: September 14, 2021, 02:46:07 pm »
But by the new rule, Citadel plays the card from the start. Let's say you play a Smithy from your hand normally, with Citadel. Citadel kicks in before you even put it in play, and puts it from your hand into play. So it expects it to be where it was when you we're going to play it. Or consider a Smithy set aside with Summon. Citadel is able to put it into play. Likewise, with Captain Citadel must be able to put the Smithy from supply into play. So it seems by the new rule, you get the Smithy.

I view Citadel as changing how cards are played, instead of actually playing a card. It's now closer to a text-modifier instead of Royal Carriage. So in the Summon example, Citadel basically turns Summon's text into "at the start of your next turn, play it twice." And Captain becomes "play a non-Duration non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to 4 twice." And this is why the card you play with Captain doesn't go into play, because Citadel isn't playing the card; Captain (which is modified by Citadel) is playing the card.

Rules Questions / Re: Timing of Donate and Mountain Pass changed
« on: September 10, 2021, 12:39:43 pm »
These used to say "after this turn", but now say "at end of turn". Is the intention that they now have the same timing as Baths, Save, The River's Gift, The Way of the Squirrel and Faithful Hound?

Does this mean that Possession is still active when these cards are resolved?

Does this mean you will resolve these even if you trigger game-end conditions during your turn?

Yes, yes, and yes.

I already added these interactions to the wiki.

Rules Questions / Re: New Village Green and Vassal
« on: September 09, 2021, 02:12:29 pm »
With the new 2020 Village Green that you have to reveal to play, if you discard Village Green with Vassal, and then play it with Vassal, can you then also play it with itself? In other words, can you reveal it from play, or does it have to be in your discard pile? Clearly the Village Green lost track of itself when it moved to play, which means it can't be moved. But revealing is not moving.

Then there is the new 2021 rule that you can only play a card that you can put into play. Going by this rule, the Village Green can only be played when it's in your discard pile. (So with this rule we don't actually need the "reveal" errata on Village Green anymore, I think.) But what about without this rule?

You can't order Vassal and Village Green. Village Green's reaction happens before Vassal even checks if Village Green is an action card. So this question about revealing from your play area doesn't matter at all. And yes the reveal wording isn't really necessary anymore.

Dominion Articles / Re: Dominion is getting worse with each expansion
« on: August 26, 2021, 12:18:40 pm »
idk how to fix this otherwise. I wish i could dislike/ban more cards online, since there are 349 cards, and i can ban 5 and dislike 5, so thats sortoff banning 7.5 cards. And there are more then 7.5 bad cards in dominion in my opinion.

If banlists were expanded, sure I'd probably use it, but I don't think it's that important or likely to happen. There are a lot of people with either empty or incomplete banlists, which indicates that people don't need larger lists. Well you could also argue that a lot of people don't even know that banlists exist, but I've still seen people around my level (58+) that don't have banlists.

And maybe I'm just less picky than others, but I don't have a giant list of cards that I'm ready to add if banlists get expanded. I have maybe 3 cards in my mind, and would struggle with coming up with more (especially for landscapes).

I think a more likely compromise is: if you aren't fully using your banlist, you can add more cards to your dislike list. There are people who have empty banlists, but a full dislike list. And it seems unfair to force them to ban cards (that they don't want to ban), just so they feel like they're fully using their lists. So if you only have 2 cards banned, you can dislike 8 cards.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: August 07, 2021, 12:14:56 am »
Why is the Supply the only "zone" in the game that's capitalized? And why is the trash not capitalized?

Why is Exiling cards capitalized? It always looked weird to me that of all the verbs in the game (gain, draw, etc.), Exile was the only one that's capitalized.

Why is it a Triumphal Arch and not just an Arch? And why is it a Defiled Shrine and not just a Shrine?

Would you still put Enchantress/Archive in Empires, and Cargo Ship/Research in Renaissance? I feel like if I only had 2 awesome Duration cards that didn't require the set's mechanics, I would just save them for a future set, with more Duration cards? Kind of like how you said that Flag Bearer and Swashbuckler could have been saved for a future set, when you had more Artifacts that were worthwhile.

What are your thoughts on the recent Command-like cards? Obviously the original versions of Inheritance and Band of Misfits were a mistake, but I think Necromancer, Captain, and Mouse may be the perfect example of "it's nowhere near simple, but it fits the text box so it still gets printed."

What cards were you surprised to learn were controversial and frequently-banned (Invest is a good example)? There are cards where you knew beforehand that some people would hate (like Knights), so I'm curious about the opposite.
Quote from: The Secret History of Dark Ages
[Knights] are for the people who like this kind of thing, and well some people adore them, slower game and all. Some people are all, my cards, my precious cards, and well there are plenty of other cards in the set for those guys.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: July 26, 2021, 01:40:16 am »
I imagine the use of "2+" on Devil's Workshop was just to fit the text at the largest font size, but have you considered using it it on other cards as well (e.g. "each other player with 5+ cards in hand")?

Why isn't Experiment just "+3 Cards, +1 Action, return to the supply?" Why does it need the bottom part at all? Similar question with Port. "It works with Academy and Adventures tokens" doesn't seem like a good enough reason.

Do you think Capitalism should say "non-Duration?" You'd fix a bunch of "removing Treasure-Durations from play" problems with Counterfeit/Mint/Mandarin/etc., if Capitalism just didn't let it happen at all.

Do you still think Chariot Race should be in Empires? Having a card that compares costs, in an expansion with debt cards, seems like asking for trouble among casual players. (Kind of like how in the D&D Mtg expansion, people weren't able to tell the difference between flavor and ability words, and Mark Rosewater said that it was a lesson in having both be in the same set.)

Do you feel like recent cards have gotten too...generous I guess? For example, Imps and Will-o'-Wisps have challenges around them to be a Lab, and then Horses just work in every deck (and the fact that Horses are temporary doesn't mean much when you're playing multiple Paddocks every turn).

And is Hunting Lodge too good? I don't like how it's optional, when compared to Scholar and Cursed Village. It even made it onto your list of "most likely to be too strong" when you finalized Menagerie.

About the font-size question I asked like a month ago, a convenient example about me not fully on-board with your policy is Gamble. The use of "otherwise" instead of a better wording seems like a mistake. We'll most likely disagree here, but I would have preferred slightly longer and shrunken text instead of the current wording. There are certainly times where I think being as concise as possible is correct (like Fleet), but not for Gamble.

Thanks for answering my questions; as a game design major, your posts and Dominion are very inspirational and educational to me.

Rules Questions / Re: Another absurd scenario
« on: July 04, 2021, 01:44:30 pm »
Oh I didn't even read AJD's example carefully, that's embarrassing.

Well speaking of Hermit, Donald X. has announced on discord that whenever Dark Ages gets reprinted, Hermit will be getting errata.

Quote from: Donald X.
I haven't committed to a wording yet; it will be playtested and argued about. But the plan is, no dividing line, trigger at end of buy phase.

This means that you can no longer topdeck a Hermit and gain a Madman (with Way of the Frog or Scheme). No dividing line also means that Ways (that aren't Chameleon) and Enchantress will also block you from getting Madman.

It's still not known if it will be worded like Exploration yet (which works differently with Villa and Black Market); that's what Donald X. means by not yet having committed to a wording. Once a final wording is announced, I'll probably add these rules clarifications to the wiki.

(Since I know people are going to get sad about losing these interactions, my response is: man Hermit is already one of the strongest cards in the game, it can take the nerf. Those complaints about the Procession errata back in 2019 are nonsense.)

So why the change?

Quote from: Donald X.
Nerfing just isn't a motivation behind the Hermit changes. The idea is to not have it matter what order you discard your cards in in Clean-up, to not have it be that any effect in Dominion can happen in-between discarding some and the rest.

This errata is supposed to deal with rules questions like "do I discard my hand first, or my played cards first" (which may matter if you want to topdeck the gained Madman with Sleigh). There are other annoying questions like "I have a 5 Highways in play and Catacombs cost 0. During Clean-up, I trash Hermit and then trash Catacombs with Sewers; do I gain a card?" If you discard a Highway first, yes; otherwise no. And while these Clean-up shenanigans technically work irl, it's a nightmare for the online version.

The errata also gets rid of AJD's scenario, and so that's my new answer for their question: use the errata.

Rules Questions / Re: Another absurd scenario
« on: July 03, 2021, 11:59:37 pm »
Encampment is supposed to be returned to the supply "at the start of Clean-up". If an Encampment is somehow played during the Clean-up phase (uhhhhh Hermit --> gain Madman --> play Sheepdog / Way of the Mouse / Vassal --> Encampment) and set aside, is it returned to the supply at the start of Clean-up during the next player's turn? On my next turn? Some other time?

You return the Encampment this turn. You can already do this without anything from Menagerie, by Improving a Poor House into Encampment, and then using Innovation.

Similarly if you play a Hireling at the start of your turn (uh you draw a Hireling dead, but you have the +buy to use Delay on it), you draw a card immediately. And if you play an Improve at the start of Clean-up (again with Innovation), you can use the Improve this turn.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Errata for Renaissance?
« on: July 02, 2021, 04:24:59 pm »
The next sets to be reprinted are Alchemy, Adventures, Empires, and Nocturne (and you can read their text changes on discord), but the current known Renaissance changes are:

-Lantern affects Border Guards you play (instead of Border Guards you own).
-Inventor and Canal don't need "but not less than 0" anymore.
-Citadel plays your first Action twice (instead of playing it again afterwards).
-Due to new rules, you can't play lost cards anymore, so Innovation won't need to set aside the gained card anymore.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Citadel errata?
« on: June 20, 2021, 04:27:40 am »
Oh hey that's an edit that I made. I guess I don't have enough street cred in the Dominion community to get recognized yet D:

I fully expected someone to ask at some point, why Citadel is the oddball that needs errata to work with the new rules about playing cards. So I'm surprised it took 4 days for that discussion to happen on the forums. So here's my attempt at an explanation; we'll see if it works for others.

Royal Carriage (and also Scepter) technically aren't Throne Rooms. Sure, they play cards, and they can stay out in play when they play Durations. Sounds a lot like Throne Room. But Necromancer and Overlord can do those things too, and I wouldn't call those Throne Rooms. And Citadel's wording is closer to Royal Carriage instead of Throne Room - it plays the card a second time afterwards, instead of saying "play a card twice."

(If you think this is weird, well, this is the game where "+1 Card" ≠ "draw 1 card" ≠ "put a card into your hand. Thanks, -1 Card token and Way of the Chameleon!)

Now why does this matter? Here's the relevant rules change:
"An effect that tries to play a card for the first time can only do so when the card is where the effect expects it to be. If it can play it the first time, subsequent plays will also work."

Royal Carriage and Scepter already require a card to stay in play in order to get replayed. This is why those 2 cards aren't affected by the errata. The errata is meant to deal with playing cards that have been lost, and RC/Scepter are already unable to replay lost cards.

In contrast, Citadel and Throne Room are able to replay lost cards (like Horse), and the rules change is keeping that alive. However, Citadel isn't worded like Throne Room! It's worded like Royal Carriage. But Royal Carriage isn't supposed to work with one-shots, so what do we do with Citadel?

So with the rules change, Citadel is now in a weird area. And the errata is making Citadel function like Throne Room instead of Royal Carriage.

You know, this situation reminds me Envoy. It used to say "draw the rest," which isn't rules-accurate. It just took the -1 Card token for it to matter.

Also Ingix is the person who wrote those new rules; if my explanation isn't sufficient, I'm sure they'll join the conversation. And feel free to rewrite my edit on the wiki; I wrote that without thinking too hard, and surely it can be more clearer.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: June 03, 2021, 06:16:39 am »
Why did you let Salt the Earth trash any Victory card? Wouldn't it be simpler to just say Province?

What's your retrospective on Procession? I really wish it got errata'd harder in 2019, because it's still one of my least favorite cards in the game. (Also I think you did a great job on Improve; it's all the fun parts of Procession without the rules/tracking issues.)

What's your retrospective on Knights being 10 different cards? And if you were to do them today, would you do them like the split piles in Empires?

When Adventures gets reprinted, will Storyteller get changed to +Cards, and will Quest get changed to prevent cheating with 2 Curses? On discord you didn't include them in the list of text changes.

With Boons/Hexes, were there thoughts about having multiple copies of the same card in the deck? I think a good solution to "hexes/attacks are inevitably more complex" is to have multiple copies of Plague/Poverty etc. and just abandon Delusion/Bad Omens etc..

From a complexity standpoint, would you rather have an expansion full of Aqueducts and Ironmongers, or an expansion full of Wayfarers and Vampires? With your current large-font policy, I think you'd pick the second expansion, even though I think the first expansion is much simpler.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: May 26, 2021, 10:47:25 pm »
What's your retrospective on Urchin costing 3? I feel like most of the complaints about Urchin are because players feel forced to open 2 Urchins and then try to randomly get Mercenary.

What are your thoughts on Swamp Hag? I think the main reason people hate it is because of the stalemates, when neither player wants to buy cards.

What are your thoughts on Magpie, specifically about how people hate that gaining more Magpies early can snowball?

What are your thoughts on Advisor? I think people hate it because at some point, they're drawing their deck anyways, so it doesn't matter which card you choose for them to discard.

Why did you make Sanctuary optional? To me it's just so much stronger than Junk Dealer, especially since it can deal with Provinces.

Whenever base set gets reprinted, will Vassal get errata to get rid of the interactions with Faithful Hound and Village Green?

In retrospect, would you make the giant $ symbols on Treasures smaller? It eats up a lot of the text box, which I'm sure is annoying with your desire to keep the font size large. Same question for the VP symbol on Victory cards.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: May 20, 2021, 02:18:14 am »
I guess with my earlier Travelling Fair question, I meant that Travelling Fair is a good example of super +Buy being strong. The worst case is probably Priest/Watchtower/Travelling Fair, which instantly empties Copper/Curse. So is super +Buy still something that is scary with Travelling Fair?
Quote from: The Secret History of Renaissance
On the quest for Ducat, there was a card that gave you +1 Buy per Treasure you discarded when gaining it (super +Buy cards are always trouble)

You changed Commerce to "differently named" because otherwise it was too strong with Horse gainers. In retrospective, do you wish you could change Triumph as well?

Certain players on Discord have expressed confusion about being able to chain Masterminds together. In retrospective would you add "non-Duration" to Mastermind?

Were there concerns that Goatherd may not be a good fit for Menagerie because of exile? I'm mainly asking because Night cards made Scepter not be a good fit for Nocturne.

You've said that you dislike Doctor; is it because of the randomness of trashing from the top of your deck, the wordiness (it's in competition for wordiest card in the game), or both?

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: May 17, 2021, 07:55:38 am »
(Admittedly I already know the answer to most of these questions; I just want a good quote to add to the wiki.)

Was it a concern that it may be too hard to reveal Rocks, especially in 2-player? It's not mandatory for a split pile to get to the 2nd card, but it seems to rarely come up for Catapult/Rocks.

Why do you enjoy Swindler more than Jester nowadays? Is it because Jester is weak for a 5?

Do you think Groom is too strong in VP rush (with e.g. Gardens)? I can see these rushes being less significant in multiplayer (since Estate and Gardens are 12 cards), but in a 2-player, Groom ends the game pretty fast.

Why does Cathedral cost 3 and not 2? Is it because a Project can't cost 2 unless it hurts you (even though Cathedral does hurt you eventually)?

Why did you change Priest from +Coffers to +Coins?

Do you think Travelling Fair is too strong?

Do you think Fortress's bottom text is problematic? Obviously there's Bishop/Fortress, but you've also had to change some cards (like Butterfly) in response to Fortress tricks/loops.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: May 06, 2021, 09:46:04 pm »
Renaissance, Menagerie, Empires, Adventures

Intrigue (revised), Base (revised), Cornucopia+Guilds, Dark Ages

Needs revision:
Prosperity, Hinterlands, Seaside, Nocturne

Not good:
That's about where I stand, acknowledging that for some players Nocturne is great.

If you had the chance to revise Prosperity, Hinterlands, Seaside, and Nocturne in a second edition let's say with minor text changes everywhere and removing up to 6 cards and adding up to 7 new cards like you did for Dominion/Intrigue...

Which of those expansions would be able to be moved to Amazing or Good or Great?

Donald X. once answered a similar question about what they'd do with a 2E on other expansions; I'll repost it here. It's also on the wiki.

Quote from: Donald X.
Seaside: Pearl Diver, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Embargo, Lookout. The first three are duds; Sea Hag because I don't like having two cheap junking attacks in one set and would rather take out Sea Hag than Ambassador, plus some people don't like that it has no upside, just attack; Embargo is a dud but also I get to not include Embargo tokens; Lookout is fine but a lot of casual players don't like it. With any 2E I would try to make better versions of cards that left that had merit to the premise or flavor, and would try to get more use out of extra components. So here, I'd have maybe 3 cards that used the coin tokens, and a different Pirate Ship. I wanted to do a Seaside 2E; it didn't happen because Jay didn't want to ask Valerie if we could replace Harem and give her a new card in Intrigue 2E, and well Seaside has two cards depicting people, Pearl Diver and Navigator. Plus Jay had boxes of Embargo tokens sitting around. It still might happen someday; the usual problem is, it's competing with all other projects.

Prosperity: Trade Route, Talisman, Contraband, Mountebank, Venture, Royal Seal. Yes I'd keep Counting House as a narrow card that's sometimes fun. Mountebank would go for being strong and making the game less fun, the rest include some nice concepts but want to be better.

Hinterlands: The problem here is that mostly I want to tweak cards but keep them, which results in an update pack we can't really sell. So e.g.: move +Buy from Margrave to Cache; drop the Reactions from Fool's Gold and Trader; make Ill-Gotten Gains a $6 that makes $2 and Curses on-gain. There are still cards to replace too though: Noble Brigand (weak), Mandarin (weak, rare weird issues), Oracle (so slow).

Dark Ages: Rebuild, Cultist, Urchin/Mercenary, Band of Misfits, Storeroom. Rebuild makes games bad when you have a medium amount of enlightenment; Cultist is monolithic; Urchin is not really good times; Band of Misfits might just become the new one but it would make the update pack; Storeroom just to round it out to 6, I personally rarely buy it though someone would miss it.

Alchemy: Ideally this would just go out of print (it's unlikely to). I could rescue the best ideas with new cards in other expansions.

Mixed box: I don't think there are enough to do this one. Harvest is a dud. I don't enjoy the gameplay of Doctor. I might be able to make a better version of Masterpiece. There are a few more that a lot of people wouldn't miss, that could go if I had to replace more cards.

There aren't going to be enough for the later sets. In Adventures, I regret the giant mess that is Inheritance, and that Warrior can kill Warriors. For Empires, Overlord has Band of Misfits issues, and Encampment has an awkward uh way you deal with it, though people like it. For non-expert players, Nocturne has some serious complexity issues, but I can't just replace 6 cards to fix that; for starters I need to take out Hexes completely. Really it wants to be split into two expansions. For Renaissance I just want the cards to be printed with the right colors. If I were still working on it I might take out Artifacts completely, but I don't regret those cards, it's just that three of them didn't need the Artifacts and could have been simpler.

The promos are not impressive as a group, with some duds and some overpowered cards. They don't even have an expansion though, so they really aren't in line for an update pack.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Gatekeeper
« on: March 20, 2021, 09:44:00 pm »
Why is Gatekeeper Action - Duration - Attack and not Action - Attack - Duration like the previous four (Bridge Troll, Enchantress, Haunted Woods, Swamp Hag) with that combination?

Basically, Donald X. has decided that types should be listed in order of importance. Action is obviously the most important, because it tells you when you can play the card. Duration is the next, because it tells you that you may need to keep the card in play. Attack is only relevant for cards like Squire and Moat, and doesn't mean much otherwise.

is there a "standard type order" for cards? or is it kinda whichever parts are more important are listed first?
I'm just thinking specifically Enchantress and Gatekeeper have the same set of types but are in different order.

Is there a specific reason or formula for the order types are written on cards?
The vague idea is to put the ones that determine when you can play the card first, and after that have the ones that don't mean as much. I may have been inconsistent somewhere.

I noticed that Gatekeeper has its types listed as Action - Duration - Attack, even though all the other Duration Attacks have Attack come first. Was this a mistake?
I think you mean Raider; Raider has Duration in front of Attacks, all other Duration Attacks have Attack first. Well I have news for you. There's a new set, and a card in it called Gatekeeper also does that.

It's just me thinking, what order should these be in, oh Duration should be ahead of Attack, and doing that. If I remember I'll change it in Adventures when the time comes.

Rules Questions / Re: Prince + Way of the Turtle
« on: January 27, 2021, 09:52:32 pm »

Does Prince fail to play its set aside Action card if that card is played as Way of the Turtle?

Question might seem to point toward an obvious “yes”. But, why would that be? Prince’s only failing clause for re-playing its set aside Action card is that ”you fail to set it aside on a turn you play it”. This is normally avoided by Prince’s auto set-aside on discard mechanic. But what if you use Way of the Turtle on that Action card? Technically, you played that card this turn; and you successfully set it aside on that very same turn. Why would Prince fail to re-play it on subsequent turns? Why would Prince care about what set the card aside, whether it was the Prince itself who did it or something else?

Dominion Online says that regardless of my above enquiry, Prince does indeed fail to re-play a Turtle’d card. My question is, why? What is it that causes this failure?

Anyway, thanks for the clarification!

It's because the stop moving rule doesn't work like that.

"If a card isn't where the effect would expect it to be, or has moved away from there and then back, it can't move the card."

Let's say you Prince a Transmogrify. You play it, put it on your Tavern mat, then immediately call it (it's still the start of your turn). Even though that same Transmogrify will get discarded from play this turn, Prince can't set it aside anymore, because of the stop moving rule. When Transmogrify went onto the Tavern mat, Prince has lost the card.

So if you remove a Princed card from play with Turtle, Prince loses track for the same reason as my Transmogrify example.

Now you may wonder, why do we need a stop moving rule at all? Because without it, it causes chaos. For example:

-You gain an Inn with Replace.
-You shuffle the Inn into your deck.
-Replace (somehow) finds the Inn inside of your deck and topdecks it.


-You gain an Experiment with Summon.
-You set it aside with Cargo Ship.
-Summon takes the Experiment from Cargo Ship and sets it aside again.
-Next turn, you play the Experiment with Summon, returns it, and then Cargo Ship takes the Experiment out of the supply and puts it back in your hand.

Rules Questions / Re: Ghost rule questions
« on: November 19, 2020, 10:50:00 pm »
1. It is my guess that when Ghost plays an Experiment (or other action that might get returned to the pile once it is played the first time), that the 2nd time to play the Experiment can still happen.  I am basing this on the 'If Ghost plays a card that trashes itself, it will play it a second time even though the card is no longer in play."


2. The rules states "you cannot resolve other effects in the middle".  Does this if the action card has 'things to do' that I cannot resolve all of them before I play the Action card a 2nd time?  It would help to have an example of what other effects we cannot resolve in the middle

Those other effects are any other things that happen at the start of your turn. For example, if you Ghost a Storyteller, you can't play the Storyteller, then use Crop Rotation, then play the Storyteller a 2nd time.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Minor note about new printings
« on: October 27, 2020, 11:43:49 pm »
I suggest that the strongest fix is to make more new cards that say "when you buy or play this" or even "when you gain or play this."

I doubt that wording will ever return, given that there are new solutions now (see Villa, Cavalry, and Night Watchman).

Quote from: Night Watchman's secret history
At first it said "when you gain or play this," then it switched to being gained to your hand after Billy [Sir Martin] suggested that.

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