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1

Rules Questions / growing significance of "new timing rule" after Menagerie

« on: May 25, 2020, 12:10:08 pm »

I don't fully understand the new timing rule, and it seems essential when playing Black Cat in multi-players games, let me ask here.

I want to start with simple example. In 3 players game, turns go ABC. Now A's turn, A gains a Province, which opens a window where Black Cat can be played from B or C. B doesn't have Black Cat at this point, then C grabs the chance to play one of two Black Cats in hand. Both A and B gain a Curse, which allows B to play a Sheepdog. The dog brings a Black Cat to B's hand.

OK now both B and C have Black Cat in their hands. Who may play first, and what follows?

According to my understanding of the rule, B first. C may not continue to play another until B plays or declares B won't. If B skips, C decides whether play or not. Then if C plays, B here again gets chance to play one, but if C skips, B doesn't get any chance to play.

2

Rules Questions / Re: Can you get +actions when it isn't your turn?

« on: March 19, 2020, 07:25:04 pm »

was answered like this

The end-of-game check is after the turn, and followed by "after this turn." I have previously ruled that you don't get an Outpost turn if the game ended.

Piling out during between turns has already been thing with Catacomb and Donate, but producing/spending Actions and Coins during between turns is new thing.

3

Rules Questions / Re: Can you get +actions when it isn't your turn?

« on: March 19, 2020, 06:52:49 pm »

But now, it can matter. With Black Cat, Way of the Mouse, Diadem, and Storyteller or Black Market, you can do all sorts of crazy things when it isn't your turn, including playing a Diadem and buying a card while it isn't your turn.

Japanese players expand your fascinating idea and finally success to play any Action and Treasures between turns. Resolving Donate, trash a Catacomb to gain a Throne Room to which to react with a Sheepdog, using Way of the Mouse of Vassal, yes, play the Throne Room! You might have another Throne Room in your hand, nest it, play cards from hand! You can do almost anything between turns.

You could spend any Action/Coin/Potion (which you got during a turn) with Diadem/BM etc between turns unless you lost them until you end the turn. Do you lose at the end of turn either?

4

Rules Questions / Re: Tunnel with discarding multiple cards at the same time

« on: March 12, 2020, 11:54:29 am »

I can't see any reason that you wouldn't be able to play a shuffled-in Village Green. But it's obviously an accountability nightmare.

Yes. I wonder why VG is not contingent on reveal (like Tunnel)/set aside (like Innovation).

5

Rules Questions / Re: Tunnel with discarding multiple cards at the same time

« on: March 12, 2020, 10:54:55 am »

Bonus Preview 3: Village Green

hmm, Village Green doesn't require you to reveal it. So, even when you discard multiple Village Greens and resolving one causes the others to be shuffled into deck, you may "play" them...... you can resolve without putting them into play, right? Multiple Village Greens theirselves can do the same as Village Green+Vassal does.

6

Rules Questions / Re: Inheritance revisited: your cards on buy

« on: February 19, 2020, 11:01:16 am »

The Lurker can't trash the card you bought, only an unbought card from the Supply.

Anyhow this is not supported.

With Inheritance fixed, it seems unnecessary and weird, maybe bad, to have this rule that bought cards are yours; you don't have the card yet. So for now at least let's say they aren't.

Alright, sounds good decision.

7

Rules Questions / Inheritance revisited: your cards on buy

« on: February 18, 2020, 10:29:15 am »

Inheritance FAQ once stated that when you bought a card, it became yours for Inherited when-buy abilities to work. the errata last year displaced those any more, is the ruling still valid?

If yes, then interaction with Market Square is problematic now. MS usually can’t react to trashing from Supply (e.g. Salt the Earth), but if you buy a card (just yours though it’s still staying in Supply) and trash it from there in the buy window — I mean during resolving when-buy for it — you can activate MS. There is a sample: Buy an Inherited Estate with a Haggler in play, gain a Ferry-ed Lurker, Innovation it to trash the Estate.

I assume the FAQ is not specific to Estate but deduction from general rule, so not only Inherited Estate but all bought cards are yours on buy, which can refine the above example using more Events than recommended. I’m not sure whether the assumption is right, though.

your cards are defined by 2nd Base rulebook and by some posts in the forum, and relevant part of Inheritance FAQ is:

An Estate is yours if either it started in your deck, or you gained it or bought it, ...

(The rulebook of Adventures, 2nd, p. 12)

8

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks

« on: September 25, 2019, 11:54:43 am »

you BoM a TR playing Durations, then Bonfire the Durations. the BoM still stay in play until the Durations finish all effects, right?

I'm pretty sure the BoM leaves play once the last Duration does, just like it would if you had played a Throne Room normally.

uh thx, I misunderstood. BoM playing TR playing Duration operates just in the same way TR plays Duration.

Bonfire can still cause tracking issues when you trash a card that wouldn't be discarded from play during the current turn. It could be changed to something like "Trash up to 2 cards you have in play that you would discard from play this turn" to "fix" it, but it's so rare you actually want to trash these, it's not much of an issue, IMO.

seconded, seriously.

9

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks

« on: September 25, 2019, 11:08:21 am »

2. Tracking for the former shapeshifters

Some cards, like the new Band of Misfits, can play a card that isn't put into play. When you play Band of Misfits, leave it in play as long as you would have left the card it plays in play. Normally that will be the same turn's Clean-up. For a Band of Misfits playing a Duration card, it will be the Clean-up of the last turn the Duration card has any effects. For a Band of Misfits playing a Throne Room playing a Duration card, it will be the Clean-up of the turn the Duration card leaves play. For a Band of Misfits playing a card that can move itself from play, like Mining Village, the Mining Village can't move itself, so Band of Misfits doesn't leave play any earlier than normal. If a Band of Misfits plays multiple Duration cards (e.g., you used Throne Room on it), leave it out until the Clean-up of the last turn that one of them still had effects.

Quick question on BoM / TR vs TR / BoM interaction:

Scenario 1: BoM playing TR playing Duration - all cards stay out until Duration gets cleaned up

Scenario 2: TR playing BoM playing Duration (as one of its two plays) - TR gets cleaned up that turn, BoM and Duration stay out until Duration gets cleaned up

Is that correct? (if so, I'm now imagining a larger TR / BoM / TR / BoM ... chain. :p)

1: The Throne is never in play of course, but otherwise yes.
2: Yes.

you BoM a TR playing Durations, then Bonfire the Durations. the BoM still stay in play until the Durations finish all effects, right?

10

Rules Questions / Re: Sauna and Innovation

« on: July 26, 2019, 08:52:40 am »

Another question to bother Donald with (sorry). This is something that some of us have mused about before, but it never mattered until now. Champion, Merchant and Sauna say "when you play x". But when do you do it, before or after you resolve the played card?

After.

Reactions/Urchin used to say just "when you play x", but still happened before the played card. Then Adventures came along with tokens that said "first", and later 2nd editions of Reactions/Urchin also said "first" to clarify the timing. Presumably Champion, Merchant and Sauna never got this wording because it didn't matter.

Yes; but, those cards didn't get the wording, and don't seem to need it, so I'm not going to rule that secretly they have it. They don't have it.

hmm this discussion ignored what Donald once ruled: "Let's pretend it [Champion] says "first."

It seems to be consensus that (without any special circumstances), after you play Champion you have exactly the same number of Actions left as before, because playing it use up an Action, and the first effect of Champion is to give you back an Action.

But shouldn't Champion trigger on it's own playing, thus giving an additional action?

Let's pretend it says "first." Well there you go, it says "first," so it happens before Champion resolves, so you didn't have the ability yet.

The other things like this in Adventures are timed "first." Champion is intended to have that same timing. It leaves off the word because it only matters for Diadem and is heavily implied by Champion giving +1 Action.

(sorry if I missed any related thread changing the ruling.)

I believe he considered what was the most simple here again, but I think Merchant and Sauna should also pretend to have it. The difference before/after resolving a card you put into play can be clearly expressed by dichotomy of "when you play" and "directly after you play". "First" is OK if you need more clearness, but packing different meanings into "when you play" will cause more confusion than now. What should be changed in the future is not CotR nor Royal Carriage but Citadel.

11

Rules Questions / Re: Innovation and Haggler

« on: January 12, 2019, 10:05:08 am »

Among those exotic things, my concern is Charm. It can set up a when-buy during a buy window, but “the next time when you buy a card”, I assume, doesn’t mean the window, can’t apply to (retrospectively I dare to say), the next time is the next window. The situation is: You buy Duchy with a Haggler, gain Black Market, play it by Innovation, so that you can play a Charm to set up the ability—and yet you can’t gain a card costing 5 other than Duchy. Right?

12

Rules Questions / Re: Resolve and Discard Hex

« on: May 08, 2018, 09:11:51 am »

It stays revealed until done; it can miss a shuffle, and you can't receive it again in the middle of receiving it.

Thanks! I found online “receive the next Hex” translated in Japanese into “discard the top Hex, then each other player receives it” in order to avoid confusion in multi-player games, but slightly inconsistent with the implementation. OK, I’ve asked majiponi to improve it.

13

Rules Questions / Resolve and Discard Hex

« on: May 07, 2018, 10:01:57 am »

While a Hex is being received, does it keep revealed until completing resolving or has it gone to its discard pile? For example when receiving Locusts causes a Cursed Village to be gained and its when-gain requires the new Hexes deck, Locusts is pending, would it miss the shuffle? The rulebook sounds yes it is discarded after finish receiving, but I’m not sure. I’d like to get the intention.

14

Rules Questions / Re: Discard Coin of the Realm called on Caravan Guard reaction

« on: April 13, 2018, 11:37:27 am »

The intention was that all cards were discarded in the clean-up of the last turn in which they did anything - whoever's clean-up.

First, thanks for the answer. Whoever's. I see.

I missed yesterday that Duplicate could be more often called in other players' turns. I notice its FAQ from the Adventure 2nd rulebook p. 7, as well as 1st, explicitly refers:

Duplicate can be called during other players' turns when you gain cards; [...] Duplicate is discarded during the Clean-up of the turn you call it, whether or not it is your turn.

while it isn't implemented online either. Well, I hope this help the discussion and will be happy to see how it goes.

15

Rules Questions / Re: Discard Coin of the Realm called on Caravan Guard reaction

« on: April 12, 2018, 10:39:45 am »

yea I admit that it is just a special case within the aditional rule.

One reason I wonder is on a citation from FAQ of the Adventure rulebook, p. 7:

It [CotR] is discarded that turn with your other cards in play.

I don't think it covers in scope such thing as the CotR is called other than my turn, but "that turn" could literally mean such way (the turn in which the CotR is called). Anyway, edge cases could have something weird that we couldn't be expecting. I hope the designer judge my guess.

16

Rules Questions / Re: Discard Coin of the Realm called on Caravan Guard reaction

« on: April 12, 2018, 09:47:03 am »

But we know an example a card which was discarded from play in other player's turn. 1st edition Outpost was discarded from my play area in the left player's turn when it failed to get its extra turn. I don't think there is difference.

17

Rules Questions / Discard Coin of the Realm called on Caravan Guard reaction

« on: April 12, 2018, 09:07:27 am »

Online when you play a Caravan Guard against an Attack in other player's turn and call a Coin of the Realm on the play, the CotR isn't discarded from play until the Clean-up of your next turn. Should it be discarded in the Clean-up of the opponent's turn? It doesn't replay the CG, so it has no reason to remain in play like you call it on a Duration in your turn.

18

Rules Questions / Re: Gaining from the Trash, Changeling, and Zombie

« on: December 03, 2017, 04:46:52 am »

Thanks for the quick clarification

19

Rules Questions / Gaining from the Trash, Changeling, and Zombie

« on: December 03, 2017, 03:04:43 am »

Nocturne has three cards that tell a player to "exchange" a card for another card. The card being exchanged is returned to its Supply pile, or non-Supply pile...
—The Rulebook of Dominion: Nocturne, p. 4 about “exchange”.

When you play a Rogue to gain like a Silver (a Ghost) from the Trash triggering the when-gain effect of Changeling, if want you return it to its Supply (non-Supply) pile for a Changeling, clearly right?

How about playing a Rogue to gain Zombies from the Trash? I guess they are similar to Shelters and Heirlooms as far as they don’t have specific “piles” they come from so that you can’t exchange them to Changeling, as is implemented online. One relevant thing, however, is that the Trash is sometimes referred to as “the Trash pile” in Rulebooks, such as of Dominion, 2nd edn., p. 8, 9, and 11. Is the Trash the “pile” Zombies come from? Is “the Trash pile” just descriptive of the Trash, not a specific term?

20

Dominion League / Re: Season 24 - Results

« on: November 24, 2017, 09:58:14 pm »

C2: SSLY 4 - 2 crudefilmschool / chrismikethomas

back for next season.

21

Dominion League / Re: Season 24 - Results

« on: November 17, 2017, 07:47:28 am »

C2: SSLY 3 - 3 Jean-Michel

22

Dominion League / Re: Season 23 - Results

« on: September 02, 2017, 10:18:23 pm »

C1: SSLY 5 - 1 luckat

23

Dominion League / Re: Season 23 - Results

« on: August 05, 2017, 05:01:25 am »

C1: SSLY 5 - 1 Micha1980

24

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Japanese (and other language) card text on the wiki - help requested!

« on: July 23, 2017, 08:29:20 am »

I can help u too
majiponi's preferable translation is based on the shuffleIT English ver and quite different from HJ's licensed print edition, which comes from the original English ver with its own errata. For completing wiki, it's better to have both in the table i think.
It's not hard to copy and paste the japanese printed texts from an unofficial japanese wiki checking accuracy. I can't scan or upload images while majiponi or someone else are adequate for that.

25

Dominion League / Re: Season 23 - Signups

« on: July 21, 2017, 11:17:51 am »

I wanna join!

Username: SSLY
Timezone: Asia/Tokyo (UTC +9)