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Messages - Neirai the Forgiven

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1
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 18, 2018, 10:51:40 am »
I'm trying out this wording, it borrows a bit from Magic and may make the card make more sense:

Quote
Memorial - Action - $6
+2 Cards
You may name an Action card. If you did, choose one or both: Reveal your hand and set the matches aside; or play all the copies of the named card that were set aside.

It's a little awkward in that it switches between "the matches" and "copies of the named card" but I think it makes more sense. I could also use a mat (Memory mat) instead.

As for the name, I'm not sure that I've settled on "Memorial" vs "Sarcophagus", but I'll let Renaissance come out before I nail it down.

Update:
Quote
+2 Cards
You may name an Action card. If you did, choose one or both: Reveal your hand and put the matches on your Memory mat; or play all the matches from your mat.
I think this is closer to Native Village and may work better.

Technically, I could also make the wording as mandatory ("Name an Action card. Choose one or both:...") since you can always name Gerbil and do nothing.

2
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 17, 2018, 06:33:32 pm »
One should consider with great trepidation whether or not to create a card that combos explicitly (or implicitly) with itself (and I think doubly-so if it costs less than $5, as $5 cards are at least expensive enough to already require another plan), and should almost certainly explore any fashion in which the idea can be more Kingdom dependent.  The more mono-card strategies that exist, the greater the chance that a Kingdom devolves into a race for a single pile.  Designers should work to minimize such an un-fun game state.

Yes, this was my thinking. I think this is okay because the card doesn't combo explicitly with itself per se, rather allowing other terminals to chain with themselves, costs $6, and suspends cards outside of your hand, which prevents them from playing each other (i.e., setting aside 4 King's Courts and then playing them with Memorial will prevent them from playing each other -- they need to target other cards in your hand.)

Fly-Eagles-Fly, I don't think it's QUITE a solution for me to say "I'll post the rulebook snippet", since it wouldn't be right to make a card with gibberish and a rulebook entry to explain how to use it in a different way. What do you think the card is support to do?

The short version is, after drawing 2 cards, either play all of the copies of a single Action from your hand, or set them aside. Then, play any number of the same Action that were set aside (including ones set aside from this Memorials, or from previous Memorials, whether on this turn or previous turns).

So, example one, my hand is 2 smithies, 1 Memorial, some other cards; I play Memorial, I name Smithy, I play Smithy + Smithy.
Example two, my hand is 2 smithies, 1 Memorial, etc; I play Memorial, I name Smithy, I set the Smithies aside. A few turns later, my hand is junk and Memorial, I play Memorial, I name Smithy, I play those two Smithies I set aside last time.
Example three is the same, except I have two Smithies set aside and two in my hand. I play Memorial, I name Smithy, I play 4 Smithies!

There's some extra complications, in that, you have to play or set aside all of the copies, you can't have 3 Smithies and then play one and set aside two. It's all or nothing. Likewise, if you choose to play Smithies from being set aside, you have to play all of them. You can't keep some set aside and play a few.
Additionally, you can have multiple different piles of set aside cards; you could set 3 Smithies aside, and 2 Native Villages, and 2 Witches. But you can only name one card for BOTH setting aside and playing, so each Memorial will only access one set of "Memories."
Also as I mentioned before, the cards you set aside aren't in your hand, so they don't have as much ability to interact with each other.

3
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 17, 2018, 04:34:35 pm »
Also, I'm still confused about what exactly this one does.

This is great feedback! It tells me that there's some vagueness that I need to overcome.

I don't know if it's a good idea to clarify here though; maybe I should refine the card. On the flip side I could also write up the rulebook excerpt and post it and you could tell me if you understand it now. If you don't, something needs to get more clear.

Many of the set's players (if I'm egotistical enough to assume that there will be any) won't have the benefit of me sitting across from them saying, no, do it this way.

4
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 17, 2018, 10:32:13 am »
Sorry, I should make a better comment than "I'm not sure one card to incentivize them would be bad".

I'm actually not sure about whether it's bad or not.
There are many, many cards in Dominion that incentivize strategies that are not monocard; Holunder9, you mentioned Nocturne; Cornucopia is the other obvious example, but also the entire concept of Remodelers push towards a diverse deck. On the other hand, except maybe Journey token cards, there don't seem to be any cards that explicitly incentivize multiple copies of the same card. Is that because it's a mechanic that DXV has not used yet, or is it because it's a mechanic that he looked at and decided was bad for the game?

In either case I'm happy with it, especially given that it has some specifically limiting behavior, like preventing groups of King's Courts that you set aside from playing each other, so it's not just a card that lets you build insane combos and pull them off effortlessly. It *is* a card that lets you play 4 Smithies without spending more than 1 Action, if you're able to take the time to set that up.

Wording is a bit of a concern, as matching cards could mean any cards at all that are the same, vs cards that have the same name as the card you named. "Matches" appears on one card, Doctor, whereas all other "Name a card" cards use something like "named card". Also "were set aside with Memorial" is sort of ambiguous. I mean "were ever set aside with Memorial" but people might think "were set aside with Memorial this turn". But that's what the rulebook is for.

5
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 16, 2018, 03:51:47 pm »
Yes, there is the question of "do we really need to further incentivize monocard strategies?" However I'm not sure one card to incentivize them would be bad.

When it fails, it's actually more a Laboratory than a Village.

6
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 16, 2018, 03:17:41 pm »
So based on my own testing I'm pretty happy with this:

Quote
Memorial - Action - $6
+2 Cards
You may name an Action card. If you did, reveal your hand and play the matches or set them aside.
Then, you may play all the matching cards that were set aside with Memorial.

However, it definitely needs tighter wording. And possibly a Mat.
Any thoughts? As far as I can tell it's balanced fairly well, but I'm sure there are some edge cases I've neglected.

7
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 16, 2018, 10:02:26 am »
Yeah, when I look at General I think it's more like Necromancer-as-a-Throne room than Actually Remembering Something Memorial; they could be connected, but ARS Memorial's uniqueness was that it could only effect one card type in a game -- if I saw that on General I might think that they were directly inspired.

It's a cool card idea, though.

Edit: I'd probably borrow the Necromancer-like language if I end up going with ARS Memorial.

8
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 15, 2018, 11:19:08 am »
I'm also trying out this idea, but the balance level on it is mindboggling:

Quote
Memorial Splitter - Action - $6?
+2 Cards
You may name an Action card. Reveal any number of matching cards from your hand. Play them or set them aside.
Then, you may play all the matching cards that were set aside with Memorial.

The issue here is you can use it as some sort of Village, kind of like a Lost City or something, where it says "+2 Cards, play any number of cards with the same name from your hand."
On the other hand, you can set aside the cards and play them with a different Memorial, to get a Throne room effect; but to do that, you need to remove the cards from circulation, which could be very bad, this would drive down the cost compared to it being a Lost City variant.
Finally, you can also use it to remove Actions from your deck permanently, like a Trash effect.
I'm guessing this clocks in at $6 (~$7 for +2 cards +2 actions, -2 for removing Actions from circulation, +1 because that could be a good thing as a trasher move) but it could be a lot weaker or a lot stronger.

9
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 11, 2018, 10:16:21 am »
So the problem with "Actually Remembering Something Memorial" is that it can consistently target Gold. Then it becomes a Treasure worth $9. That costs $6.

Right now in the game you can King's Court say a Legionary to get an Action worth $9. But to do that you have to collide King's Court and Legionary and you can't do that every game, just games with Legionary. You also have to collide it every time you want the $9.

Now, ARS Memorial needs you to collide the card once, the first time. If you collide with something else, you lose the ability to collide so I'm expecting it to take a bit of time before you collide with the right thing. However, I feel like the basic strategy for ARS Memorial will be, figure out the fastest way to get multiple Golds, then buy a Memorial and collide them, then buy Memorials. After that, have Memorials (which are a Treasure) and cruise home to Victory.

Of course, testing is needed. But I have two ideas:
1) Make ARS Memorial only play the card twice. Balance its cost around this fact. I'm not worried as much about people using it on Platinums since that's more of a drawn-out process -- you can't just invest in a Platinum gainer like you can a Gold gainer.
2) Make ARS Memorial only able to target Kingdom cards. This gives you all the shenanigans of ARS Memorial but removes the most obvious abuses.

10
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« on: October 10, 2018, 05:26:08 pm »
Honestly, I'm glad he chose the other one. This just sounds absurdly brutal if you play it right. Always keep 3 tokens around, make players discard a card costing 5$ or more... That's not good times. It becomes even worse by the fact that you can't strike back if the only 5$ in your hand is Villain (which is loads more likely than it being the only card costing 2$ or more). Estates not giving any protection as long as you keep one measly token unused would have given a player who can open with this a huge advantage.

Yeah, and that's the reason it didn't make it. As Donald X. said, "It was not fun to discard my fun, not even once." So agreed, probably for the best that it didn't make it. But however brutal it could be for the opponents, it was really fun to be the one playing it, balancing keeping tokens vs. spending them.

I'd have made you spend the Coffers to raise the minimum price of target. But then it would still make other players discard their fun, even if it cost a lot.

11
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 10, 2018, 10:55:31 am »
Okay, so here's a crazy idea for Sarcophagus:

Quote
Memorial - Action - $6
Play and trash an Action card from your hand. Gain a card that costs less than it. If it's an...

Action card, play it twice;
Treasure card, play it twice at the start of your next Buy phase;
Night card, play it twice at the start of your next Night phase.

So it's basically King's Court with a built-in Crown, but the Crown is Crowning a crappier card.
Oh, and it can gain (cheaper) Victory cards.

OP? Not sure. Do I like it more than Sarcophagus? Maybe.
I like it. Definitely more unique than Sarcophagus.

Couple of quick comments:
1) it's a bit awkward when you gain a card, but then don't play it until your Buy / Night phase. I need to add a set-aside to prevent the card from being covered up by intervening actions: "Play and trash an Action card from your hand. Gain a card that costs less than it, setting it aside until Clean-up. If it's an.."

2) This actually feels a bit weak, since you are downgrading a card and playing the weaker version twice. I'm contemplating making it play the card from your hand twice, trash it and gain a cheaper card, play that twice. This might be too strong, though. Another counterbalance idea would be to not trash the original card but to gain 2 copies of the lesser card and play them twice if they are an action, otherwise they go to your hand. At that point it probably shouldn't be allowed to get 2 duchies if you trash a 6-cost Action using it, otherwise the only thing people will do with Memorials is use them to trash Memorials for 2 Duchies.

3) Another stranger element (that I'm keeping for now) is that currently if you gain a Werewolf with a Memorial, you play it four times (twice as an Action, twice as a Night card.) The same is true for Crown. However, I'm keeping it that way.

and finally 4) If you Memorial a Memorial you get these weird action chains where you play Memorial on Memorial, the second Memorial plays another card, trashes that card, gains a card and sets it aside to play it later, then trashes itself, gains a card and sets it aside to play later, then plays set aside cards or waits till the appropriate phase.

One thing I could do is just make you play the Night cards and Treasure immediately, but that is a bit weird (a *bit*) and Night cards generally are much less powerful if you play them too soon.
Edit: actually, the only Night card that really suffers a lot from being played in this manner is Crypt. And technically if you played Treasures in your Action phase before playing Crypt in your Action phase, then you could use Crypt on the Treasures.


Another idea that's totally different would be to have memorial function as a King's Court that can only play one thing; the way it works would be like this:

Quote
Actually Remembering Something Memorial - Action - $6
If a card is on your Memory mat, play it three times, then return it. Otherwise, put a card from your hand onto your Memory mat.
-
Memorial has the card types of the card on your Memory mat.
If Memorial is a Victory card, it's worth 3VP at the end of game.

Edit: updated for better wording.

12
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 09, 2018, 06:52:05 pm »
Okay, so here's a crazy idea for Sarcophagus:

Quote
Memorial - Action - $6
Play and trash an Action card from your hand. Gain a card that costs less than it. If it's an...a

Action card, play it twice;
Treasure card, play it twice at the start of your next Buy phase;
Night card, play it twice at the start of your next Night phase.

So it's basically King's Court with a built-in Crown, but the Crown is Crowning a crappier card.
Oh, and it can gain (cheaper) Victory cards.

OP? Not sure. Do I like it more than Sarcophagus? Maybe.

13
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 09, 2018, 02:42:33 pm »
Boy, it's taken me a long time to figure out what to write here, here goes!

Fly-Eagles-Fly, thanks so much for your interest. Archaeologist and Mastermind will use your suggested wording!

Boulder Trap I'm still pondering the wording on. I basically want the rule to be "you pass this around whenever you discard it, but if you forget, you can't go back and change it." Fun...

On Pyramid, the exactly 2 is to remind people that they need to trash 2 cards; trashing 1 card is not allowed. I do feel that the -VP is needed, first to counterbalance it (it's quite powerful) and to make it interesting, since you have to trash it before the end of the game or suffer the penalty. I also think that the Pyramid is probably the most risky design left in the set.

Sarcophagus differs from Band of Misfits in that it triggers the on-gain and on-trash effects of the targeted cards, and runs down the Supply piles. Originally played the card multiple times (like a Procession that targeted the supply) until someone here pointed out that it was far too strong. So I hit it with the nerf-bat a lot of times, and now it gets rather close to Band of Misfits. Seeing as I have a bit more time waiting for Renaissance to launch, I might take it back to its roots and try variants on it.

14
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: October 06, 2018, 12:02:24 am »
Much more complex Moundbuilder Village that is also a lot cheaper:

Quote
Moundbuilder Village - Action - $3
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile. Return a Moundbuilder Village from it to the Supply for + $3 (or reveal you can't); if you can't, +1 Card, +1 Action.
-
In games using this, when you gain a Silver during your Action phase, you may exchange it for a Moundbuilder Village.

Before someone says it's "strictly better than Village," it's not.
It feels very good in the $3 slot, but that might be because it's OP in the $3 slot. Further testing is needed.

15
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« on: October 04, 2018, 12:00:20 am »
As soon as Renaissance ships so I can see the whole card list, I'll be printing my fan expansion (I'll report back how satisfied I am) and a version will appear on TTS.
That said I won't be pursuing a license (I think DXV has been clear on that) and I certainly don't want to chain the rest of my life to attempting to sell it. It's taken far to much of my life already in the past two years! If I wanted to sell board games for a living (which, honestly, I kinda do) I'd prefer to have invented them myself and also prefer that I don't get sued.

16
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: September 26, 2018, 11:04:29 am »
Looks like $4 for cost is too steep, since it's definitely worse than Mining Village and arguably worse than Village, or about on par.

Update:
It looks like it might be better at $4 if I make it a Bazaar with a Spoils effect if another one is found in the discard pile. This gives you some incentive if you're clever and keep them alive for multiple turns ($4 for a $5.) But now the concern is that losing them is still too weak. I may consider swapping the payoff to something like 3 cards.

17
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: September 24, 2018, 05:17:36 pm »
The current idea looks something like this:

Quote
Moundbuilder Village - Action - $4
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile and reveal a Moundbuilder Village. If you did, return it to the Supply for + $3.

Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Action.

So it's either an action Gold or a Village. When it functions as a Gold, it has a high maintenance cost.

18
I'm interested to hear the discussion behind the wording of Experiment. It's really awkward, but I can't think of a better wording off the top of my head.

"You gain these in pairs." --> then explain this in the rulebook.

Donald X. did consider this wording, or one very like it. I was, and still am, vehemently against it. It's even less precise than the final wording.

Final wording is precise, which is what matters.

This is exactly what happens when you make a suggestion after thinking for 30 minutes rather than years and years. You find out that you are just retreading ground that was covered a long time ago.

19
I'm interested to hear the discussion behind the wording of Experiment. It's really awkward, but I can't think of a better wording off the top of my head.

"You gain these in pairs." --> then explain this in the rulebook.

20
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: September 24, 2018, 10:12:11 am »
Looks like Moundbuilder Village just got clobbered. I'll have to try some variants on the design.

21
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: September 23, 2018, 10:34:14 pm »
Today I received the (unbranded) cover art image. This basically means that, once Renaissance launches and I assess the damage, I'll be releasing the final version.

So, like, one last chance to rip apart the cards :)

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: September 13, 2018, 05:14:40 pm »
I played Still evolving Mastermind last night, it seemed to be in a pretty good place; I played it in a kingdom with a number of other villages (Bustling, Blessed, and Cursed, as well as Conclave -- random kingdoms are fun) and it seemed to be a good contender -- not a card you'd never buy against those cards, nor one you'd always buy against those cards, but one you'd buy a few of as well as more standard villages.

The set didn't have a lot of good payload cards, though, and in either case one game does not an adequate test make. But for now I'm pretty happy with it.

Edit: this was Still evolving Mastermind that chooses cards at Clean-up, rather than the idea of choosing cards immediately and then moving them at Clean-up. This was the more powerful version, and I think it felt okay that way.

23
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: September 12, 2018, 06:15:10 pm »
Quote
Still evolving Mastermind - Action - $5
+1 Action
+1 Card
+1 Buy
At the start of Clean-up this turn, you may choose two cards you have in play. If you discard them from play this turn, put them on the bottom of your deck in any order.
-
Directly after resolving an Action, you may discard a card to play this.

This is pretty similar to

Quote
Still evolving Mastermind - Action - $5
+1 Action
+1 Card
+1 Buy
You may discard a card for +1 Action.
At the start of Clean-up this turn, you may choose two cards you have in play. If you discard them from play this turn, put them on the bottom of your deck in any order.

Not the same, but not all that different, either.

If I'm catching your meaning, it's true that the card is a lot like "Worker's Village +1 Buy but only if you discard a card, + double sort of bad scheme" so the pricing question really rests on how good the scheming part is.

Further musing: it's both worse than scheme, since scheme controls when you're going to get the card back, and better, since it's more persistent so you can combo it, and also better because this can target any card that's in play, not just actions.

I have played around with leaving the wording as is, so that you can move any card you played all turn, and changing it so that you can only move cards you already had in play when you play Mastermind. The latter is weaker but has fun highlights when you play Mastermind during a different phase, something that you can do.

Of course there's the danger of a card that only shines if you know and can replicate weird edge cases.

24
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: September 11, 2018, 10:39:48 am »
More blathering:

What I like about this is that it feels interesting as part of the same "Directly after resolving an Action" mechanical set as Coin of the Realm and Royal Carriage. But those cards are both Reserve cards, for a reason. Royal Carriage is entirely set up to be a card that you can only "play" as "Directly after resolving an Action" by having a top that is just +1 Action, put this on your Tavern mat.

I purposely chose not to include Durations and Reserves in Antiquities. Sometimes I realize I'm designing them anyhow.

I haven't had a chance to play with Still evolving Mastermind yet, I think it's probably overpowered (more like a $6 than a $5) but I'm not sure yet. Comparing it to Hamlet and Sauna are both rather enlightening.

25
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« on: September 11, 2018, 10:13:45 am »
Holunder9, you bring up a very good point. I should treat this card lightly given the upcoming expansion; it's possible that I think it has a cool gimmick now but it gets very lame when Renaissance comes out. Once Action tokens are in, the benefit of a discard-to-start-again card is questionable.

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